• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 12
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 11272 times and has 11 replies Next Thread
Ceci



Joined: Jul 29, 2003
Posts: 44
Status: Offline

Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

To Trade, or not to Trade: The why?s who?s how?s and what??

The purpose of trading is to get one or more commodities specifically to another place, usually in the purpose of supplying a shoppe that your crew/flag owns, or doing so for a crew/flag?s shoppe that you are providing this service for.

Now, each shoppe needs different commodities, and different commodities are rare, so the first step is to figure out which commodity you are going to get, and why (that is, your purpose in choosing to get this commodity). Some purposes might be because:

  • ]the item is in high demand, and the buy price has gone up for it (wanting to make PoE),
  • ]the item is rare and has a high price,
  • ]you want a good produced by a shoppe, and they are low an that commodity, so you want to get it from them and purchase at a discount,
  • ]your crew/flag owns a shoppe and you want to make sure it is stocked.
    [/list:u:70bd010779]
    Notice, that 2 of those reasons are for making PoE for bringing that commodity to that person, 1 reason is to save PoE, and the third is for making sure that the shoppe makes PoE.
      Ex: Iron was recently in demand, due to mates hording it in preparation for colonization. Buy prices soared up to around 25 PoE per each, in almost every shoppe. You might choose to get this commodity, as it is in high demand everywhere. [/list:u:70bd010779]

      After choosing the commodity that you wish to trade, there are two things that need to be taken into consideration. Where will the commodity be gotten from, and how will it be gotten? That is, can it be foraged? Or will it be bought at a market? And at what island/s can this item be found at?
        Ex: Now, we?ll take a look at wood (since it?s the only one I can think of off the top of my head ? =P). Lets say that wood prices on Gaea go up due to a shortage. I go and take a look at Diamondblade?s commodity map and see that there is a, that wood is a commodity produced at a couple different places, some with markets and others without. (I don?t have the recent copy of the commodity map, so I can?t provide info right now about others) One of those islands is spring, which has a market, and off the top of my head, I believe that zeta produced wood, and last I checked it did not have a market, so it would have to be foraged. (we?ll stay with this scenario for the sake of the tutorial) [/list:u:70bd010779]

        Now we have several choices about where we want to get our commodity from, and mayhaps, how we want to get it. Next we have to decide from which island is it the most worth it to get our commodity from. Again, we have to ask ourselves some questions: How far is it? Will I get enough of the commodity to make it worthwhile? Are the routes to get there and to the shoppe hard?

        Diamondblade made a note about considering the worthwhilness of a commodity (and he's an expert trader =): Note that large amounts of slightly less valuable commodities are probably a safer bet than small amounts of really rare ones. Try and time it so that you hit the common stuff on the way to the rare ones, and that way if you do get some rares, you've got the wood/stone/whatever to pad them out if you lose a fight. (Put in to make one cohesive document)

          Ex: Our wood example gives us two choices: Spring/Market ? 10 leagues (3 of the leagues yellow), Zeta/forage ? 13 leagues (4 leagues orange) (this is assuming you have the charts to get to your points at the shortest distances). Now our questions: How far is it? Spring is closer. Will I get enough to make it worthwhile? At a Market, that may be debatable, plus you have to bring PoE with you to buy it, at a forageable island, you don?t know if the island has been foraged out, and or if you will actually get the item. It?s a toss-up between the two on this one (becomes more important in the next point). Are the routes to get there and to the shoppe hard? This depends on where you are starting, and where you are going. But from each of those islands, the easier one would be to spring. [/list:u:70bd010779]

          Before making the final decision, the main point (if you are trying to make or save money) is to see what your profit is. How much will you make on this endeavor?

            Ex: Now, lets say we chose spring, we?re leaving from Gaea, and we will bring back 72 wood on a sloop (I know that that?s near the max). Wood sells for 12 each on spring, and it is bought for 29 each on Gaea (theoretical numbers). It would cost us 864 PoE to buy that wood, so we will take 1000 PoE in case we lose a battle on the way. We will be paid 2088 PoE for that wood, if we bring it all back, bringing us to a total possible profit of 1224 PoE.
            Ex part 2: Let?s say that we chose Zeta instead. We don?t need to take any PoE with us, just make sure that we have labor to spend (in foraging). At this island, we are instead limited by the amount we are able to forage for, but our payback can be greater as well. You can get the total 2088 if you fill up your hold with wood. It is a gamble though, as you may fill up your hold with other things.
            [/list:u:70bd010779]

            That is the basics about trading, and making a profit on it. It?s all about basic choosing what you want to get it, where you want to bring it to, and why. I have not mentioned that the above may not work perfectly due to other traders, and camping. Camping is basically leaving a boat at one of these places and waiting for it to show up, and foraging for it, or buying it up on the market, as soon as it is spawned. I personally do not condone camping, although it is done and a trader should be made aware of it.

            You can make a profit by trading an item through the above ways mentioned. I have included an outline below that shows the decision making process written out above. If you have any comments, suggestions, or additions, please add them, and if you say it is OK to do so, I will add it to this document, so that only one post is needed to be read in detail. Many thanks!


            • ]Choose Commodity to get, and why.
            • ]Figure out how and where that commodity can be gotten from.
              • ]What islands produce this commodity?
              • ]How will this commodity be gotten at these islands? Foraged or bought through the market?[/list:o:70bd010779]
              • ]Is the item worth getting?
                • ]How far is the island the commodity is on?
                • ]Will I get enough of the commodity at that market to make it worthwhile
                • ]Are the routes to get there and to the shoppe hard? [/list:o:70bd010779]
                • ]What is your profit?
                  • ]How much will you pay for it at the market if it?s at a market?
                  • ]How much will you be paid for bringing it in? [/list:o:70bd010779]
                  • ]Extended note about trading/camping
                    [/list:o:70bd010779]
                    ----------------------------------------
                    ~Siciliana
                    SO and Urchin of Phoenix Fury
                    ----------------------------------------
                    [Edit 1 times, last edit by Ceci at Mar 7, 2004 3:33:29 AM]
[Mar 7, 2004 3:33:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 7142
Status: Offline
Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Number 3 is a good point. Note that large amounts of slightly less valuable commodities are probably a safer bet than small amounts of really rare ones. Try and time it so that you hit the common stuff on the way to the rare ones, and that way if you do get some rares, you've got the wood/stone/whatever to pad them out if you lose a fight.
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Mar 7, 2004 2:55:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
adramolek

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 25, 2003
Posts: 1388
Status: Offline
Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I have a question I've been meaning to ask and this seems like a good place.

Now this is just an example and applies to commodities that you've traded around, too. So: let's say you want, I dunno, black/black flare pants. But no tailors have fine black cloth. And no weaveries are publicly producing it. So you go out Kraken hunting and get 3 units of blood; enough for 10 fine black cloth; enough for two pairs of black/black flare pants.

I've never supplied commodities specifically for an item I wanted to a shop before. What is the recommended way to go about setting up such a deal? Do you ask the weavery owner to raise blood buy prices at the dock just long enough for you to sell yours, then order the fine black cloth from the shop and ask for a refund (since you're probably trying to get a deal)? Or do you just give the blood to the weavery owner? Do you have to deal with things like, having the weavery manager/owner put the fine black cloth up for sale and then making sure you buy it before somebody else spots it? Then do the same with the cloth and the tailor?

In general, what I'm asking is, how do shopkeepers prefer to handle such transactions? Where a customer is providing the commodity for an item they specifically want, and in return the customer wants not only the item, but a deal on the item as well.
----------------------------------------
The List: Where good suggestions go when they die.
More swords now thx.
CLICKY -> CLICK HERE TO CLAIM YOUR 100000 POE PRIZE! <- CLICKY
Avatar by KingPriam! ^.^
[Mar 7, 2004 3:01:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AizIril



Joined: Jul 25, 2003
Posts: 552
Status: Offline

Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Generally in trying to set up a deal with a shop I'll talk to the owner or a manager. Usually one I'm friends with. :) It's generally not hard to find a freindly person in charge of a shop you want to trade with, and they'll usually buy in your goods and sell you the finished product at the cost of labour and tax, with maybe a small additional fee. Because you brought your own commodities, and so shouldn't have to pay mark-up on them.

A good place to start would be inside your own flag, when looking for a friendly shoppe.

And generally yes, you'll have to deal with having to be quick off the mark buying the product a lot of the time. I can remember on azure having to wait til Sheepish Looks was empty before Jeridus put the black on sale for me to make my clothes.
----------------------------------------
Xyphus on Hunter. Aiziril on Midnight. Bored on all oceans.
[Mar 7, 2004 6:10:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
adramolek

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 25, 2003
Posts: 1388
Status: Offline
Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Thanks for the advice! I was kind of hesitant to start approaching shop owners out of the blue not knowing what to expect.
----------------------------------------
The List: Where good suggestions go when they die.
More swords now thx.
CLICKY -> CLICK HERE TO CLAIM YOUR 100000 POE PRIZE! <- CLICKY
Avatar by KingPriam! ^.^
[Mar 8, 2004 10:14:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ceci



Joined: Jul 29, 2003
Posts: 44
Status: Offline

Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Adramolek wrote: 
I've never supplied commodities specifically for an item I wanted to a shop before. What is the recommended way to go about setting up such a deal? Do you ask the weavery owner to raise blood buy prices at the dock just long enough for you to sell yours, then order the fine black cloth from the shop and ask for a refund (since you're probably trying to get a deal)? Or do you just give the blood to the weavery owner? Do you have to deal with things like, having the weavery manager/owner put the fine black cloth up for sale and then making sure you buy it before somebody else spots it? Then do the same with the cloth and the tailor?


If you are actually trying to get a deal, it may not be the best way to raise their buy prices so that they will buy from you (the manager may have to raise their maximum amount of that commodities that they will buy, to be able to purchase more). In fact, the best way may be to lower their buy price, and then, using those commodities that you have sold to the shoppe, the shoppe will make the item you are requesting at a "cost" price of 1, thereby, the only thing that they are really paying for is the labor, and they may pass that amount on to you, as well as charging you some amount for the work, and time that it will take on the queque length.

Ex: Hades wants a new black/black cleaver, just like the one that he's had. He comes to speak to me, as the manager/owner of What a Steel, and tells me that he's collected 8 sassafrass, 3 Lorandite, and 3 Thorianite. He wants to sell them to me, and get a cleaver made, at a good price. Soooo, I'll lower my buy prices to 1 each, and buy those commodites. 14 commodities total, the trade gives him 14 poe. Now, there are several things that go into a cleaver, 3 iron, 4 of each color (8 sassafrass), 3 lorandite, 3 thorianite, and labor: 25 basic, 35 skilled, and 30 expert. Now, I have to keep my labor prices the same, as that's what goes automatically to the mates who work in the shoppe. (We'll say my wages are 2/3/4 respectively for the above.)

We'll say, I charge, 1 for each of the commodities, and the basic amount that goes to the labor. That makes 8*1 (sassafrass/coloring) + 3*1 (lorandite) + 3*1 (thorianite), and 3*29 (iron - I bought it at 12) + 25*2 +35*3 + 30*4 (all the labor) = 467 (although the price that comes up is 514 due to the 10% that is added in as tax)

I would tell Hades that the basic price is 514 (tax gets passed on to the consumer) and that I would be charging him 1,500 for the use of my shoppe, and the time it'll set back the queque.. etc. He pays me a total of 2014 PoE.

That might answer some of your questions.

On the second point, the owner of that example weavery, after ye talk to him, and he's making what ye asked, he can be jobbed by ye, and deliver the goods to your vessel to do with what ye wish.. =)

Adramolek wrote: 
In general, what I'm asking is, how do shopkeepers prefer to handle such transactions? Where a customer is providing the commodity for an item they specifically want, and in return the customer wants not only the item, but a deal on the item as well.


That's how I prefer to handle requests such as those. and although ye have to trust the shopkeeper in that type, thats what happens. =)

If the shopkeeper trusts you, he/she can change the cost amounts, and let you order at those lower prices what ye say ye will so that ye can deliver it to yourself by yourself too, but again, it goes to who ye trust.

Hope this helps too. =)
----------------------------------------
~Siciliana
SO and Urchin of Phoenix Fury
[Mar 11, 2004 6:08:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LongJohnGrey

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 6, 2004
Posts: 2210
Status: Offline
Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Will this be updated now that markets have changed?
----------------------------------------
Re: Market on Scurvy Reef:
Hypnos wrote: 
I didn't realize it was such a hot forage spot until I dropped it and three pirates showed up on the island in quick succession.
And it wasn't even 9 spaces from the arrow :-).
[Jun 23, 2004 6:46:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TheRug

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Posts: 112
Status: Offline
Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Having read the tutorial above, I've got a question for the traders out there: how do you determine what you can make a profit on? (Item #1 on the above outline.)

Obviously, you want to buy low and sell high, but to do that you need to know when and where someone is selling low and buying high. The market screens can give you a ton of information about what people on one island are doing, but how can you tell if any of these prices are oddly high or low? Is it just a case of getting to know what is normal? Are there certain demands that are typical, so you know that island X always needs more Y?

-Rugsby, who is somewhat fuzzy on this whole subject.
----------------------------------------
-Rugsby, formerly of Midnight and now of HunterEmerald

no .sig, no .plan, no .clue
[Aug 6, 2004 2:34:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
inversewd



Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 7
Status: Offline

Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Basically you need to visit several islands to find out who's buying and selling for how much. What I tend to do (and I'm by no means a master trader!) is check a few choice commodities at each port before making a trade, to see what the profit margins would be like. Keep in mind that you can walk into a commodity market on foot to check prices, so you can whisk around to do that and get your sell prices before setting sail. Generally and island producing a commodity will have a low Buy price at its shops, so the further away the source of the commodity is, the more they'll pay for it. You can use DB's commodity map in the Map of Midnight thread to determine how far away they are.
[Aug 6, 2004 3:03:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Quizzical



Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 1811
Status: Offline

Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Check prices many, many times, and ultimately try something that looks like it might be profitable to see if it works.
----------------------------------------
There is no "i" in "complex numbers".
[Aug 6, 2004 3:46:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gearyster

Member's Avatar


Joined: Nov 9, 2005
Posts: 10
Status: Offline
Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I have some friends who do sugarcane/rum runs to an island that doesn't have a distillery but has sugarcane. I want to know if this is really that lucurative because rum and sugarcane can cost a lot.
----------------------------------------
Missyswissy
Captain of the crew Dark Disiples of Missy
Royal of the flag Saints and Sinners and:

Scurvyjohns
Dormant pirate of the crew OSG Renegades

Falbard: Are you a boy or a girl?

You: Thats for me to know and a stalker to find out!
[Apr 24, 2008 5:10:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Teuts

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 309
Status: Offline
Re: Trading 101 Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Ouch! My head hurts from such a big bump.

 
I have some friends who do sugarcane/rum runs to an island that doesn't have a distillery but has sugarcane. I want to know if this is really that lucurative because rum and sugarcane can cost a lot.

Doing sugar cane runs to an island that has sugar cane and no distilleries is pretty much doomed to failure. Running rum there is fine, though only a palace or furnishers can trade rum at such islands.

For sugar cane to ever be lucrative you also need at least a merchant brig to make enough on each trip.
----------------------------------------
Teuts on Viridian
Compulsive Event Enterer
Rabbitfish development
Avatar by Foilbeard (andman). Won in "Crabs, puffers, jellies, oh my!" competition.
[Apr 24, 2008 6:17:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~jteu004/ [Link]  Go to top 
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2016 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates