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ikajaste

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[size=14]Foreword

After having had a bit of a shock by surprisingly stumbling on the information that rotating the rings in navigation decreases your preformance (which is not true), I suddenly decided that I want to know the rules to these puzzles I'm playing. Or rather, I want to know which rules I don't know.

So I compiled a chart mapping out what affects your preformance in YPP puzzles. And doing that, I noticed there are some of factors I'm not sure about at all. And many that I'm doubtful about. These are marked with question marks in the chart.

I'd really like the chart to have no question marks at all. So I'm asking for your help. Please tell me what you know of the puzzles, correct my mistakes, confirm the unceratain ones and fill in the blanks. (Or discuss the chart's presentation, accuracy or such, if you want.)

Yes, all this information could possibly be dug up from the forums, but believe it'd be too difficult and time-consuming. (Unless there already is a post covering all this, in which case my forum performance will drop by one large booch. :)

So many, many thanks to anyone who'd like to help me with this!


[size=14]YPP puzzle score affectors
[size=10]or "How doing things in puzzles affects the performance (or 'score') in the puzzle."

In this chart, I've tried to map out all user actions and other affectors in Puzzle Pirate puzzles, and their effect on the 'score' of the puzzle. Score is a representation of how well you do in the puzzle. (This is independent of other puzzlers.) I've tried to leave out only those actions that really couldn't reasonably affect the puzzle.

I've used quite inexplicit terms for the amount of effect, as there really is no reason to know (nor would the devs in their wisdom even tell) the actual numbers behind the puzzle. So any terms refering to amounts (such as "large") are possibly very inaccurate.

About the effects
"increase" means that this action increases the score in the puzzle, and
"decrease" means the action decreases the score.
"no effect" means the action doesn't affect the puzzle score in any way.
"large" or "small" tells if the score is affected noticably different amount from the base amount of incrasing or decreasing.
"bonus" is used instead of "increase", if the action just represents another action done differently, or only happens in combination of another action. Thus "bonus" is additional to the increase in score by the event that also triggers the bonus.
"linear bonus" means that if the condition triggering the bonus happens multiple times via the same initial action, each time the bonus is triggered, it is larger than the previous bonus (in a linear way). Linear is also assumed to be a quite large bonus. (This is often used with cascades.)
"multiplier" means that instead of a bonus, you get the points of the triggering action multiplied. A "linear multiplier" would then increase the multiplier each time the action was triggered. So this affects only the hits done after each stage of the cascade. The first hit of a cascade is the original amount, second hit's score would then be 2x, third 3x, and so on.
"conditional" is explained in parentheses in each case it appears.

About the affectors
Time is a problematic affector with some puzzles, as time can have a quite large indirect effect on the puzzle, as the pieces keep falling down. However, i've used time here as a representation on it's own effect - if the pieces would just stop falling, what would happen with the score. Or course, there is a problem of measuring this, as the pieces don't ever stop falling, but at least the devs stilll know answers to this one. :) And of course, as the falling can be made quicker with the space bar, this does indeed have much effect on playing the puzzles.
"Inactivity" is a separate affector from time. Inactivity occurs when the game notices that you haven't done any actions in about ten seconds. If you do actions often enough, this will not affect your puzzle score - time however will always, but the faster you are, the less it has time to affect.

"Cascade" means an recursion of the action - an action happening again because of the action. Usually these give a linear increasing bonus to the score.
"Combo" refers to more than one of the same goal getting completed at the same time because of the action. For example clearing multiple lines with one swap in bilge.


The chart
Note: I will be updating this chart if I recieve more information. So some replies might not be accurate.
* indicates that this was changed in the last update. [size=10][last updated 25.6.2004]


Gunning:
--------
Time: decrease
Guns loaded: increase
Fired guns washed: small increase
Pieces wasted: no effect
(but slows down puzzle)
Arrows placed: no effect


Sailing:
--------
Time: small decrease
Inactivity: decrease *
Pieces used: decrease
Clearing pieces: increase
Clearing platforms: large increase
Cascades: linear multiplier
> minimum objective: small bonus
(clearing 5+ pieces)
Combo: no additional bonus
Clearing board: no additional bonus
Rotating: no effect
Booching the board: small decrease


Carpentry:
----------
Time: decrease
Inactivity: decrease *
Pieces placed: small increase
Pieces placed back
into the box: no effect (?) *
Completing a hole: increase
(also larger holes give a
slightly larger increase)
Completing a hole with
horizontal tiles: small bonus
(called 'grain bonus')
Squares from tiles placed
on useless places: decrease (also when
completing the hole)
Completing 'masterpieces'
sequentially: small (?) linear (?) bonus
Getting more holes: no effect
Flipping tiles: no effect
Adjusting position of
last placed tile no effect *


Bilge pumping:
--------------
Time: small (?) decrease
Inactivity: decrease *
Swapping: decrease
Clearing pieces: increase
> minimum objective: small bonus
(clearing 4+ pieces)
Cascade: small bonus (linear (?))
Combo: linear bonus
(on more rows cleared)
Clearing a crab: increase
(based on water level)
Clearing crabs in the
same column
(not in a cascade): linear bonus *
(on more crabs cleared)
Clearing pieces with
the jellyfish: no additional bonus
Clearing pieces with
the exploding fish: no additional bonus


Navigation:
-----------
Time: small decrease
Inactivity: decrease *
Stars used: decrease *
Completing a constellation: linear increase
(depending on the size of
the constellation)
Rotating a ring: no effect
Clearing stars in a line: small increase
Clearing > minimum amount of
stars in line (4+ stars): small bonus
Clearing lines in cascade: linear bonus
Clearing constellations
in cascade: no effect
Row-clearing-cascade
ending in a completed
constellation: very large bonus
Booching: decrease
(also turns ship around)


Distilling:
-----------
Time: no effect
Clearing row with spice: small increase
Wasting spice: decrease
Combos: linear
Burining pieces: no effect
Wasting a row: no effect
Moving pieces: no effect


Swordfighting:
--------------
(this is somewhat different to measure - I'm using 'pieces sent' as the unit)

Clearing single blocks: 1/2 pieces cleared
Clearing large blocks: 1x pieces cleared
Combos: linear multiplier


Drinking:
---------
(this is also different to measure as the actual points are visible)

Placing a cup/fries to a place where it has around it...
0 adjacent colours: 0 pts
1 adjacent colour: 10 pts
2 adjacent colours: 15 pts
3 adjacent colours: 30 pts
4 adjacent colours: 60 pts

Using hooks: 0 pts *

Completing a line (with majority of your cups on it)
by placing a cup to a...
stained place: 100 pts
unstained place: 200 pts

Having majority of the borad stains in your colour at
the end of the game: 200 pts




Notes

In gunning, the puzzle speed is increased if you do well, and decreased if you waste pieces.

In carpentry, the 'useless places' refers to squares which don't need a tile placed on them - the places that already have a tile, or are outside the hole.

In carpentry, I don't really know much about the sequential masterpiece bonus. Is is linear - is masterpiece^10 worth more than masterpiece^4? I presume that the bonus isn't that large anyhow, as you get quite a good score simply by getting the masterpieces all the time.

In carpentry, you get also get scored for "potential points." This means if you no longer can get a Masterpiece in a hole, the game subtracts from your score regardless if you fill the hole or not.

Note that in for example in sailing clearing a combo gives "no additional bonus" - this means that you do still get points for the lines cleared, but you just don't get any bonus from the fact that you did it with one piece.

[size=9]And you've been de-stickied. Ueberthread culling time. - Diamondblade
----------------------------------------
- Ilari (Artias of Revontuli, Mignight Ocean)
----------------------------------------
[Edit 6 times, last edit by ikajaste at Feb 25, 2004 12:02:58 PM]
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Telastyn



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some notes about what I believe, which of course I have very little evidence for, except that I'm ultimate or legendary in most things...

gunning:

wasted pieces are supposed to effect your score [according to the help] and seem to in the actual game.
moving/placing the arrows seem to be a slight decrease [as getting a PWC in a row seems to score better than picking them out of a conga line]

sailing:

breaking a row increases a much smaller amount than clearing a platform
booching the board does decrease a small amount
comboing I believe is similar to swordfighting [I believe] that the combo multiplier is applied to what is broken [i.e. the first stuff broken for a bingo is only 1x and the last stuff 4x; hence making it advantageous to clear a platform last]
like bilging, clearing 4 pieces 3 times seems to be a little bit more than clearing 3 pieces 4 times.
clearing 2 groups at once doesn't seem to benefit [i.e. the first break drops 2 groups that break simultaneously. the two dropped groups seem to be not bonused]
clearing the board does [edit: not ] increase [edit: more than clearing the last platform]

carpentry:

placing a piece is a small increase
the grain bonus is rotating a multiple of two times only [and any number of flips] with the pieces; it is a large increase upon completion
Larger holes seem to score more [but take longer to do]
multiple masterpieces are a large bonus [look at the hammer not your score. there's so many people that are bad at carp that it only takes a little bit to get an excellent. I used to be one of those terrible people until someone told me I could flip the pieces >_<

bilging:

bingoes and better are large multiples over even clearing just multiple rows. [at time of writing]
multiple crabs do not bonus I believe
fish explosions are equivalent to 'single' clearing the number of pieces the clear [I think]

nav:

I am not very experienced with nav.



And I kinda did this on the spot without caffiene, so anything braindead is not my fault, really.

REALLY!

Anyways, I'm sure some more seasoned folks will come by and correct me if there's anything wrong.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Telastyn at Feb 25, 2004 12:44:18 PM]
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aaaargh



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A couple things that have come up before:

Sailing:

Clearing the board is no increase (this is in the help i believe)
inactivity decreases (not time explicitly)


Nav:

Rotating does not decrease
bigger constellations is = bigger score (maybe linear)


Gunning:

Cleaning a dirty cannon is a small increase
[Feb 25, 2004 3:31:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ramirojr



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aaaargh wrote: 
Nav:

Rotating does not decrease


Are you sure about this? Cos my experience is that it does... Well, someone with super nav experience should answer this.
----------------------------------------
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aaaargh



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I don't know if it has been discussed in this forum, but some of the best navers in the ocean have said that spinning does not matter. It was discussed briefly at the crows nest.

HappyPants
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AizIril



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Multiple times before, in Nav, I've been doing incredible (Stars glittering away like mad) then I've dropped a few pieces to set up the next constellation, and the stars have stopped glittering (Moving down to just yellow, the "excellent" position), then I've rotated a couple of rows (quite a lot, like, and dropped a single piece, not breaking any stars, and my stars have started glittering again, as if I increased the sore somehow. I've yet to figure what the hell I was doing to get itt o do that, but it definately suggests rotating the rings doesn't decrease your score at all. Also, it just seem illogical to have the main playing mechanism decrease your score.
----------------------------------------
Xyphus on Hunter. Aiziril on Midnight. Bored on all oceans.
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RedDog

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I have never even pretended to understand the nav puzzle but suddenly I seem to be doing quite well at it, but there are some strange things that have got to me. When I seem to be doing really well I seem to just get fine or good, but often when I think I am struggling I get excellents or incredibles. Then sometimes I'll bootch turn back around and still get incredibles. I can't see how this can happen unless there is a bonus for responding to the need to turn around quickly too.
Learning routes can be bizarre too (yes! I know it's random) I was doing two islands each with four nav points between them. Island one was learned in one go with just fines yet island two took eight goes with all excellents and incredibles. NB: This last point is discussed elsewhere many, many times and is just an observation.

Regards Seasnake Who sometimes is easily confused
----------------------------------------
Captain of the Flying Tigers, King of The Patrician's Flag
Fortunatly the seasnake rarely bites humans.

11 years and still flying the flag.
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Lallaria



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In nav, booching is not a really big decrease.. it's just about the same as in sailing (you can keep incredible leagues through booching. I've done it) You just get stuck with easier constellations so it's more of a pain to keep the incredible.
Nav wheel rotating doesn't decrease your score. It's the time you spend whirling the stars around that gets it.

You're missing somethng in carp. If you keep picking up and putting down pieces into your "hand" your rating will shoot right down the toilet. Only time I seem to get good scores on that is when I don't put something back down into the box (yay efficiency).

Oh, and...
Distillery
Clearing row with spice: small increase
Wasting spice: decrease
Blech: large decrease
Smooooth: increase
Crystal Clear: Large increase
Combos: linear
Burining pieces: no change
Wasting a row: no change
Moving pieces: no change
Time: no change
----------------------------------------
Lallaria
[size=10]Retired
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bokodasu



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In carpentry, the grain bonus has to do with the way the grain is filled in the hole (has to be all horizontal, like the non-hole parts of the screen). Depending on the pieces you're given, this can involve any amount of flipping/rotating.

I think the picking up/putting down has to do with time, and not the movement itself, although I could be wrong. I know you have to place a piece in 'x' amount of time to continue doing well, and taking longer than 'x' to make a placement decreases your score. (See more here)

According to this, spinning does not affect your nav score. I've never done better than fine, so I wouldn't know.
----------------------------------------
[size=9]Tomyris, Cult of the Red Mantis, Looterati
Bonnie, Octafish Dream, Viridian
[Feb 25, 2004 10:27:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ikajaste

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Many thanks for the help so far!

It was good to know that combos in sailing count as a multiplier. I've been starting some combos with platforms... now I know better.

UPDATES
I made following updates to the chart:


Added a "linear multiplier" explanation.

GUNNING:
- Pieces wasted and arrows placed now decrease.

SAILING:
- Combos are now a multiplier.
- Clearing platfroms is a large increase.
- Added affector: "multiple rows" which does not affect anyhow (but might, so better to have it there).

CARP:
- Placing a piece is a small increase.
- Changed the grain bonus.
- Added affector: Pieced placed back into box now decrease.

BILGING:
- Multiple crab removal doesn't effect.

NAVIGATION:
- Completing a constellation is now a linear increase, depending on the size of the constellation.
- Booching is now just a standard decrease, not high.

DISTILLERY:
- Added. Many thanks to Lallaria for that!


There was much new information on your replies... did I miss something?

Additional questions

Umm, so in sailing, does clearing the board increase as much as a platform? Is this increase multiplied too, if it's the last one in a combo?

In sailing, "inactivity decreases (not time explicitly)". Sorry, I didn't quite get that. Do you mean that if you moved and rotated the pieces around, assuming they wouldn't fall, you'd keep your score? Or that when you are "lazing about", you start to decrease, but while in puzzle, the time doesn't matter?

In carp, do larger holes actually score more? Higher rated players get the larger holes, right? That'd mean that the better players are the only ones who get a chance to get even better score. And that'd make the puzzle actually easier for them. This doesn't seem right to me.

And in carp, I figured getting the multiple masterpieces only gives a small bonus, as you get a large score even without the bonus, simply from doing the masterpieces all the time. If this gives a large bonus, it'd give a huge score, really. So still not sure about this one...

In carp, there seem to be multiple opinions on how the grain bonus works. Is the current the correct one? (Completing a hole with horizontal tiles: large bonus called 'grain bonus').

In bilge, "bingoes and better are large multiples over even clearing just multiple rows." What exactly counts as bingo in bilge? Doesn't clearing multiple rows with one swap actually do a bingo?

Umm... so in nav, does the rotating actually decrease the score or not? :) This sort of playing mechanishm does decrease the score in bilge (swapping), and apparently in gunning (placing the arrows), so I figure it could do that in nav too.
----------------------------------------
- Ilari (Artias of Revontuli, Mignight Ocean)
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deathprog23

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Well in sailing, placing a piece in a target instead of letting it drop any-old-where gives you an increase, not just completing the whole pattern.

I wonder if this might be responsible for the effect Aiziril is seeing in nav? ie rotating the wheel can make appropriately coloured stars fill their targets, thus giving a bonus and bringing his score back up to incredible?

OP
----------------------------------------
"I wanna be like the ocean, no talkin' an' all action." Jane's Addiction, Ocean Size
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Crystallina

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A bingo, how I think of it, clears 3 rows at a time, like so:

XY
XY
YXYY

Swap the X and Y at the bottom and you have a bingo.
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PLEASE PEOPLE, IF YOU DONT AGREE DONT REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!

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AF1983



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I could be wrong, but to the best of my experience, wasting a spice in distilling does not have a direct decrease on your score. It may have the indirect effect of not letting you use that spice in your brew, but I don't think it directly lowers it. But like I said, I could be wrong.
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MKSparrow

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In carp, there seem to be multiple opinions on how the grain bonus works. Is the current the correct one? (Completing a hole with horizontal tiles: large bonus called 'grain bonus').


Yeah only horizontal...Nemo said so once...and to me seems only like a small increase, oh and overlapping pieces seem to decrease score a little.
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Crystallina

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Your gunning scoring is wrong. Gunnery is scored simply on cannons loaded divided by time in puzzle, with a small bonus for clearing a dirty cannon.
----------------------------------------
Rapmasta26, in a surprisingly accurate assessment of many posters' attitude towards things:

 
PLEASE PEOPLE, IF YOU DONT AGREE DONT REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!

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triskaideka



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Disclaimer: I'm not a developer; these answers are all based on my non-scientific observation and could be wrong.

ikajaste wrote: 
It was good to know that combos in sailing count as a multiplier. I've been starting some combos with platforms... now I know better.

I start combos with platforms all the time, and I'm Ultimate (on at least one of my characters, anyway). Ideally, you should do nothing but clear combos in which every step involves a platform (but if you're getting extra pieces that don't help with that, go ahead and use them to set up other steps that aren't platforms). Steps that are just regular lines of 4 increase your score too, but not as much as steps that are platforms. Some people set up huge triple-vegases or whatever where only the last step is a platform, and I guess that works, but you don't have to do it.

ikajaste wrote: 
SAILING:
- Added affector: "multiple rows" which does not affect anyhow (but might, so better to have it there).

I think it does. I'm basing this belief on the fact that the size of the text that says "Triple" or "Bingo" or whatever seems to me to be larger when you clear multiple platforms at once than when you clear just one, especially in the later steps of the combo. As a general rule, the bigger the font when the game tells you something, the more profound the effect on your score.

ikajaste wrote: 
BILGING:
- Multiple crab removal doesn't effect.

Not sure about this. I figure clearing two crabs at once is at least twice as good as clearing one, right? I've heard some people suggest that the bonus is even greater than that.

ikajaste wrote: 
Umm, so in sailing, does clearing the board increase as much as a platform? Is this increase multiplied too, if it's the last one in a combo?

I don't think clearing the board is worth anything in itself. To clear the board, you have to clear a platform, and that's scored normally. But the last platform on the board isn't worth any more than any other platform. This post and the two following would seem to back me up on this (but maybe Nemo is just being cagey...).

ikajaste wrote: 
In sailing, "inactivity decreases (not time explicitly)". Sorry, I didn't quite get that. Do you mean that if you moved and rotated the pieces around, assuming they wouldn't fall, you'd keep your score? Or that when you are "lazing about", you start to decrease, but while in puzzle, the time doesn't matter?

Lazing about hurts your performance in any puzzle. So does playing slowly, but not as much. Nemo says: "Every duty puzzle is 'better' done fast." I'm not sure about the actual math here. I'm under the impression that performance is mostly a function of score divided by number of pieces used (i.e.: efficiency), and that if two players get the same result from that formula, the one who played more pieces or played faster will perform better.

ikajaste wrote: 
In carp, do larger holes actually score more? Higher rated players get the larger holes, right? That'd mean that the better players are the only ones who get a chance to get even better score. And that'd make the puzzle actually easier for them. This doesn't seem right to me.

I think larger holes are worth more points -- proportionally more points than the greater number of pieces it takes to fill them. This is way it works for constellations in navigation as well. Better players get larger holes which lead to better scores (if they can patch them), yes. New players can still perform well enough to start getting those better holes.

ikajaste wrote: 
In carp, there seem to be multiple opinions on how the grain bonus works. Is the current the correct one? (Completing a hole with horizontal tiles: large bonus called 'grain bonus').

Nemo says: "As long as you keep your grain bonus, a Craftsmanship is almost as good as most peoples' Masterpiece." That's not exactly a precise scientific measurement, but I think it's fair to say that the grain bonus is significant, but not worth using more pieces to fill the hole. And yes, all pieces must be placed with the grain oriented horizontally in order to get the bonus. This is the way they start out in your box. Some pieces are symmetrical such that they can be flipped or rotated to always help towards the grain bonus (e.g. the V), and some pieces may start in your box in varying orientations (e.g. the P), but others are less flexible: for example, it is never possible to place an L- piece with the long end pointing up or down and still preserve the grain bonus.

This list is a great idea! Thanks for compiling it.
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Telastyn



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bokodasu wrote: 
In carpentry, the grain bonus has to do with the way the grain is filled in the hole (has to be all horizontal, like the non-hole parts of the screen). Depending on the pieces you're given, this can involve any amount of flipping/rotating.



I think the picking up/putting down has to do with time, and not the movement itself, although I could be wrong. I know you have to place a piece in 'x' amount of time to continue doing well, and taking longer than 'x' to make a placement decreases your score. (See more here)







All of the carp pieces 'spawn' horizontally, thus rotating a multiple of two times [and flipping any number of times] will leave them horizontal.
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Telastyn



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triskaideka wrote: 
Disclaimer: I'm not a developer; these answers are all based on my non-scientific observation and could be wrong.





ikajaste wrote: 
It was good to know that combos in sailing count as a multiplier. I've been starting some combos with platforms... now I know better.




I start combos with platforms all the time, and I'm Ultimate (on at least one of my characters, anyway). Ideally, you should do nothing but clear combos in which every step involves a platform (but if you're getting extra pieces that don't help with that, go ahead and use them to set up other steps that aren't platforms). Steps that are just regular lines of 4 increase your score too, but not as much as steps that are platforms. Some people set up huge triple-vegases or whatever where only the last step is a platform, and I guess that works, but you don't have to do it.






Indeed, spending more pieces just to setup the combo isn't worth it. In my experience it *seems* as though a bingo where the platform is last scores more than a bingo where the platform is first. [though I'm likely wrong]





 




ikajaste wrote: 
SAILING:



- Added affector: "multiple rows" which does not affect anyhow (but might, so better to have it there).




I think it does. I'm basing this belief on the fact that the size of the text that says "Triple" or "Bingo" or whatever seems to me to be larger when you clear multiple platforms at once than when you clear just one, especially in the later steps of the combo. As a general rule, the bigger the font when the game tells you something, the more profound the effect on your score.







Indeed, the number of pieces broken before the combo iteration seems to effect the later combo iterations, but to me it seems [and I'm probably wrong] that breaking 2 groups simultaneously doesn't effect the iteration that the breakage occurs on beyond the standard scoring. That said, clearing more pieces is always good, but we don't know how much really for sure



 




ikajaste wrote: 
BILGING:



- Multiple crab removal doesn't effect.




Not sure about this. I figure clearing two crabs at once is at least twice as good as clearing one, right? I've heard some people suggest that the bonus is even greater than that.







I'm of the opinion the bonus is not larger than 2xCRABBONUS or at the very worst the 2xCRABBONUS + the very little bonus added by the little 'bonus!' secondary breakings



 




ikajaste wrote: 
Umm, so in sailing, does clearing the board increase as much as a platform? Is this increase multiplied too, if it's the last one in a combo?




I don't think clearing the board is worth anything in itself. To clear the board, you have to clear a platform, and that's scored normally. But the last platform on the board isn't worth any more than any other platform. This post and the two following would seem to back me up on this (but maybe Nemo is just being cagey...).







I editted my first post, as the above poster is right, it explicitly says in the help that clearing a board isn't worth anything [more than clearing the last platform]



 




ikajaste wrote: 
In sailing, "inactivity decreases (not time explicitly)". Sorry, I didn't quite get that. Do you mean that if you moved and rotated the pieces around, assuming they wouldn't fall, you'd keep your score? Or that when you are "lazing about", you start to decrease, but while in puzzle, the time doesn't matter?




Lazing about hurts your performance in any puzzle. So does playing slowly, but not as much. Nemo says: "Every duty puzzle is 'better' done fast." I'm not sure about the actual math here. I'm under the impression that performance is mostly a function of score divided by number of pieces used (i.e.: efficiency), and that if two players get the same result from that formula, the one who played more pieces or played faster will perform better.





ikajaste wrote: 
In carp, do larger holes actually score more? Higher rated players get the larger holes, right? That'd mean that the better players are the only ones who get a chance to get even better score. And that'd make the puzzle actually easier for them. This doesn't seem right to me.




I think larger holes are worth more points -- proportionally more points than the greater number of pieces it takes to fill them. This is way it works for constellations in navigation as well. Better players get larger holes which lead to better scores (if they can patch them), yes. New players can still perform well enough to start getting those better holes.









And since they're larger, they take more time to fill. The increase isn't very large, about large enough to make up for the decrease caused by the extra time needed.



 




ikajaste wrote: 
In carp, there seem to be multiple opinions on how the grain bonus works. Is the current the correct one? (Completing a hole with horizontal tiles: large bonus called 'grain bonus').




Nemo says: "As long as you keep your grain bonus, a Craftsmanship is almost as good as most peoples' Masterpiece." That's not exactly a precise scientific measurement, but I think it's fair to say that the grain bonus is significant, but not worth using more pieces to fill the hole. And yes, all pieces must be placed with the grain oriented horizontally in order to get the bonus. This is the way they start out in your box. Some pieces are symmetrical such that they can be flipped or rotated to always help towards the grain bonus (e.g. the V), and some pieces may start in your box in varying orientations (e.g. the P), but others are less flexible: for example, it is never possible to place an L- piece with the long end pointing up or down and still preserve the grain bonus.





This list is a great idea! Thanks for compiling it.






yar yar!
[Feb 26, 2004 1:58:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lallaria



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In distilling wasted spices do affect your score. They didn't used to, but they do now.

Game docs wrote: 
Getting a spice piece into yer rum improves the batch. The more spice ye use, the better the batch can be, but wasting spice counts against ye.


In gunnery you get an increase for filling a cannon (depending on how much time it took for you to do it), small decrease for throwing stuff overboard, small increase for clearing out a dirty cannon, small decrease for clearing out an empty cannon. (If you place more arrows, you waste more time and thus decrease your score)
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[Feb 26, 2004 2:03:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Lallaria [Link]  Go to top 
stigant



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Nemo says: "As long as you keep your grain bonus, a Craftsmanship is almost as good as most peoples' Masterpiece." That's not exactly a precise scientific measurement, but I think it's fair to say that the grain bonus is significant, but not worth using more pieces to fill the hole.


I believe that comment was made before the bonus for stringing together multiple masterpieces was put in. Which means, in my mind, that getting a grain-bonus craftmanship is only going to be close to getting an MP if you aren't currently on a long string of MPs. If you have to break a string of 15 MPs to get the grain bonus, you're going to end up taking a large hit (relative to keeping the string alive). If you have to break a string anyway, then yeah, you should go for a grain bonus, but I don't think its that much of an improvement over not getting it.
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[Feb 26, 2004 2:05:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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Telastyn wrote: 
Indeed, spending more pieces just to setup the combo isn't worth it. In my experience it *seems* as though a bingo where the platform is last scores more than a bingo where the platform is first. [though I'm likely wrong]

No, I think you're right. Better to put lines of 4 early and platforms later than the other way around (but still better to put lines in later steps than not to have later steps). Probably it's that you multiply the value of anything scored, for example, in the Triple step by 3, and 3 x platform is more than 3 x line.

Telastyn wrote: 
Indeed, the number of pieces broken before the combo iteration seems to effect the later combo iterations, but to me it seems [and I'm probably wrong] that breaking 2 groups simultaneously doesn't effect the iteration that the breakage occurs on beyond the standard scoring. That said, clearing more pieces is always good, but we don't know how much really for sure

I think you're probably right about this too. So if you're going to clear two platforms in one step, make sure there's another step afterwards.

stigant wrote: 
 
Nemo says: "As long as you keep your grain bonus, a Craftsmanship is almost as good as most peoples' Masterpiece." That's not exactly a precise scientific measurement, but I think it's fair to say that the grain bonus is significant, but not worth using more pieces to fill the hole.


I believe that comment was made before the bonus for stringing together multiple masterpieces was put in. Which means, in my mind, that getting a grain-bonus craftmanship is only going to be close to getting an MP if you aren't currently on a long string of MPs. If you have to break a string of 15 MPs to get the grain bonus, you're going to end up taking a large hit (relative to keeping the string alive). If you have to break a string anyway, then yeah, you should go for a grain bonus, but I don't think its that much of an improvement over not getting it.

This is no doubt true as well. Grain bonus is nice if you can get it, but you should focus on masterpieces.
[Feb 26, 2004 2:27:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wnorman



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Does the vessel itself affect scoring or performance in any way? Like, does the size of the ship, the damage/bilge level, or the number or performance of other players aboard affect your own personal outcome for each league?

As an example, just last night I was aboard a frigate and felt I was doing exceptionally well at bilge, but kept getting Poor and Fine, while almost everyone else was getting at least Excellents. Although it can probably just be attributed to a bad night, it got me thinking about whether the marks were affected by a) the fact that I was aboard a frigate, b) the large number of people aboard the ship, or c) the fact they were all doing so well.

I've noticed this kind of thing several times, but I'm pretty sure it's just my imagination. Still, a worthwhile question since personal rankings work this way.
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[Feb 26, 2004 2:27:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Telastyn



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wnorman wrote: 
Does the vessel itself affect scoring or performance in any way? Like, does the size of the ship, the damage/bilge level, or the number or performance of other players aboard affect your own personal outcome for each league?



As an example, just last night I was aboard a frigate and felt I was doing exceptionally well at bilge, but kept getting Poor and Fine, while almost everyone else was getting at least Excellents. Although it can probably just be attributed to a bad night, it got me thinking about whether the marks were affected by a) the fact that I was aboard a frigate, b) the large number of people aboard the ship, or c) the fact they were all doing so well.



I've noticed this kind of thing several times, but I'm pretty sure it's just my imagination. Still, a worthwhile question since personal rankings work this way.




There are no 'direct' effects of ship size on your rank at the end of a league [to my knowledge]. Larger ships tend to get more bilge, making that puzzle harder. They also are slow, meaning there's alot more time [and puzzling] between leagues, and thus doing well along the entire league becomes more difficult because you need to do well consistantly for a long time [since the end of league rating is based on how well you did along the entire length of the league, on average]





[edit:-hint: look at the hammer, or the bilge pump, or the sail, or... as a symbol of how well you're doing at the puzzle since those are the indication of how well you're doing. The rest is influenced by the other pirates in the ocean to my knowledge]
[Feb 26, 2004 2:44:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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Telastyn wrote: 
They also are slow, meaning there's alot more time [and puzzling] between leagues, and thus doing well along the entire league becomes more difficult because you need to do well consistantly for a long time [since the end of league rating is based on how well you did along the entire length of the league, on average]

Actually, depending on the puzzle and how you play it, more time between league points could be a good thing. But yeah, I think you're right: size/damage/bilge have indirect but not direct effects on duty report ratings.

However, I have been under the impression that your score is also slightly modified by the relative score of the other players on the ship who are working at the same puzzle. I found a couple of posts that support this theory, but they're pretty old and not from developers, so who knows. I've certainly seen Incredibles across the board for a particular duty before, so the effect can't be that great. I don't really know what purpose this would serve, except perhaps to encourage a little friendly competition.
[Feb 26, 2004 2:50:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Yoda

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A few clarifications simply because I'm in a friendly mood today:

Carping also scores you on "potential points." This means if you no longer can get a Masterpiece in a hole, the game subtracts from your score regardless if you fill the hole or not.

Naving is easier if you have much higher rating, not so with carp (although the change in difficult is practically insignificant for carp). Having more stars in the nav puzzle means more points when you clear it, and almost all players will agree that nav is easier at a higher rating. With carp it's arguable though. The bigger holes do provide more points when completed, but it's also harder to get a MP in a bigger hole then a smaller hole. Some people have more trouble with this than others though. *shrugs*

Rotating the ring in Nav does not lower points. You get a (very small) score bonus for being active (and a major hit for being inactive, or lazy, if done too long). This is why your rating icon sometimes jumps up a bit during pretty much any given puzzle despite your not completing anything.

Your rating and your score are two different things. Your score is what you get at the end of a puzzle, and your rating is, effectively, your pirate's record of all the scores (not actually correct terminology as the game doesn't keep a numerical record, but go with me for now). Your score is determined by how well you do in the puzzle, but it is also determined by the amount of time you spend in the puzzle. So you may be getting a lot of increds due to riding a puzzle out through a series of quick league points, but more leagues doesn't affect your score/rating anymore than it would have had all that puzzling been done under one league with the same time constraint. I went from 3rd in the Ocean to Legendary with one Fine before because that one league lasted some 15-20 minutes. The duty report is just that; a report. It isn't a proper indictator of your score or rating.

On, and the relative thing is based on your Arch and the Ocean, not simply on the ship you're on (although it does involve those on board the vessel as they probably are in the same Arch and Ocean you are).

Shuranthae
[Feb 26, 2004 4:15:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Crystallina

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In gunnery you get an increase for filling a cannon (depending on how much time it took for you to do it), small decrease for throwing stuff overboard, small increase for clearing out a dirty cannon, small decrease for clearing out an empty cannon. (If you place more arrows, you waste more time and thus decrease your score)


Not anymore. Again, gunning is simply cannons loaded compared to time spent in puzzle with a slight bonus for clearing a dirty cannon. Doing 'wrong' things such as cleaning out an empty cannon or throwing pieces overboard only affects the speed of the puzzle, not the scoring.
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PLEASE PEOPLE, IF YOU DONT AGREE DONT REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!

[Feb 26, 2004 4:25:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    YPP+Crystallina [Link]  Go to top 
Lallaria



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Peghead wrote: 
- Your rating is purely based on CANNONS LOADED over TIME IN PUZZLE, with a tiny bonus thrown in for cleaning a fired cannon.
- The starting speed of the puzzle is dependant on your rating.
- Doing "good" or "bad" things during the puzzle will adjust the speed faster or slower a tiny tiny amount.
--> good things: putting a piece in properly, loading a cannon.
--> bad things: putting a piece in improperly, putting pieces overboard, washing an empty cannon.


(just clearing things up fer me as well, I knew that if I threw stuff overboard it'd tank my rating.. but that's because it slows the game down. :-P )
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[Feb 26, 2004 4:51:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Lallaria [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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Yoda wrote: 
Carping also scores you on "potential points." This means if you no longer can get a Masterpiece in a hole, the game subtracts from your score regardless if you fill the hole or not.

This is very interesting. How do you know it? I assume it only really applies to the holes that are still unfilled when you exit the puzzle? Otherwise the game could just wait to score those holes normally when you do finish them.

Yoda wrote: 
Your score is what you get at the end of a puzzle

So as not to confuse readers, I should point out that I've been using "score" in this thread to mean the running total that indicates how well you're doing in the present puzzle at any given moment, not just when you exit. You don't know your "score" in this sense, but we can assume you have one. The duty report gives you an idea of how this score compares to the scores other people get at the same puzzle. I assume Shuranthae is using "score" to mean your overall performance from time you enter the puzzle until the time you exit.

Yoda wrote: 
On, and the relative thing is based on your Arch and the Ocean, not simply on the ship you're on (although it does involve those on board the vessel as they probably are in the same Arch and Ocean you are).

What's your source for this? As I say, I've heard that your results on the duty report are adjusted based specifically on the performances of the other people who are doing the same puzzle on the same ship at the same time, and not just to the extent that their current performances (like everyone's performances throughout history) affect what the game considers a "good" or "bad" performance. (I just don't remember where I heard this anymore....)
[Feb 26, 2004 5:00:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ikajaste

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[size=10](Please note that who I attribute the changes to is mostly random if there are more than one people saying the same thing. This attribution is here only for (my own) reference.)

UPDATES

- confirmed that time does have a small effect on the duty puzzles [triskaideka -> Nemo]

GUNNERY:
- Washing fired guns gives an increase. [Crystallina]
- Pieces wasted affects the speed, not score. [Lallaria -> Peghead]
- Arrows placed has no effect. [Crystallina]

SAILING:
- Confirmed that clearing the board has no effect [triskaideka]
- Rotating rings does not affect the score [Yoda] [size=10](Phew, that's a relief)

CARP:
- Added a note that bigger holes give more points [triskaideka]
- Changed grain bonus to be a small one [stigant]


Notes & questions

I use the term score to mean how good you do on the puzzle, independent of others. It is best seen in the small icon -indicator. Added a clarification of that to the text.

triskaideka wrote: 
ikajaste wrote: 
SAILING:
- Added affector: "multiple rows" which does not affect

I think it does. I'm basing this belief on the fact that the size of the text that says "Triple" or "Bingo" or whatever seems to me to be larger when you clear multiple platforms at once than when you clear just one


Well yes, you would get larger score, when the combo multiplier affects two rows, instead of one. But the question is that does the "multiple rows at once" have any different effect, that having the rows cleared individually (assuming the combo multiplier would be the same). As I see it, it doesn't, so that's why it doesn't affect the score.

triskaideka wrote: 

I figure clearing two crabs at once is at least twice as good as clearing one, right? I've heard some people suggest that the bonus is even greater than that.


Again, two crabs would give you twice the score, but the question is that if they are cleared with the same swap, do you get an additional bonus - more score that when clearing them individually. If you do, then the "multiple crab removal" does have an effect, otherwise it doesn't.

Yoda's information of potential points in carp is a bit hard to fit into the chart. I added it to the end as a note.
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[Feb 26, 2004 6:45:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://iki.fi/ilari.kajaste [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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triskaideka wrote: 
Yoda wrote: 
On, and the relative thing is based on your Arch and the Ocean, not simply on the ship you're on (although it does involve those on board the vessel as they probably are in the same Arch and Ocean you are).

What's your source for this? As I say, I've heard that your results on the duty report are adjusted based specifically on the performances of the other people who are doing the same puzzle on the same ship at the same time, and not just to the extent that their current performances (like everyone's performances throughout history) affect what the game considers a "good" or "bad" performance. (I just don't remember where I heard this anymore....)


I'm happy to let everyone figure most of this thread's information out on their own, but this is a potentially dangerous misunderstanding.

Your adjective upon reaching a node (Good, Incredible, Booched, etc.) reflects your score compared to everyone else's. It has nothing specific to do with the individual session scoring going on around you (Steve getting an "Ultimate" on your ship doesn't knock you down to "Fair"). It has everything to do with the skillbase of the entire population (What you just scored compared to everyone else's skill rating on that puzzle).
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