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r_nevermind

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On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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Ok, I know for a fact that some major people on Viridian share accounts, passwords, and such. There's also a semi-major Monarch that is a ban-evading alt, and (basically) everyone knows it. Is it nearly as prevalent on other oceans? Why doesn't anyone do anything about it? I know there's been complains sent on the ban-evading, and a few on some account sharing, but nothing seems to be done about it. I'm sure that there's some investigation by the OMs/Devs, and that we just never see the results, but, sometimes, it'd be nice to actually see those results.

I know there will be tarting to this, and I'm prepared for that. Before you ask, no, I've never logged onto anyone else's account, nor been given their information, or shared my own. I've never been banned, suspended, blackspotted, or even complained, on any account, as far as I know, in almost 2 years of playing. Yes, I've complained my own friends as well as people I don't like, for doing this. Not cool maybe, but not hypocritical.
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~Mergen - Captain- Ira Deorum; Queen- Regnum Irae

Cheers to Nordenx (and Framling!) for the avatar!
[Mar 27, 2007 9:13:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vorky

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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Why doesn't anyone do anything about it?

Have you complained the ones you know about?
[Mar 27, 2007 9:22:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
r_nevermind

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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Why doesn't anyone do anything about it?

Have you complained the ones you know about?


Yup. Every single one.
----------------------------------------
~Mergen - Captain- Ira Deorum; Queen- Regnum Irae

Cheers to Nordenx (and Framling!) for the avatar!
[Mar 27, 2007 9:22:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TarnumTheRed

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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Account sharing is more there to stop the hassel of dealing with people who complain because someone logged in and stole everything after the account was sahred with them. This allows OMs to wash their hands of the situation. Account sharing doesn't really cause a game mechanic problem except for role-playing or ban-evading purposes.

Ban evading is a no-no, but can be hard to prove.
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Tarnum

Darvid wrote: 
I guess it's just fun to poke the retarded bunny.
Muroni wrote: 
Who isn't sure that leif will let me enter him, but I'm willing to try.

[Mar 27, 2007 9:28:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
r_nevermind

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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I suppose it is hard to prove. But, I would think that there's got to be some way to actually do so. The suspected alt has almost the same stats as the banned 'main' pirate. He took over the position of Monarch of a flag as a greenie. He owns the ships/buildings/pets that the banned person had. To me, that just smacks of evasion.
----------------------------------------
~Mergen - Captain- Ira Deorum; Queen- Regnum Irae

Cheers to Nordenx (and Framling!) for the avatar!
[Mar 27, 2007 9:42:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
r_nevermind

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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I suppose it is hard to prove. But, I would think that there's got to be some way to actually do so. The suspected alt has almost the same stats as the banned 'main' pirate. He took over the position of Monarch of a flag as a greenie. He owns the ships/buildings/pets that the banned person had. To me, that just smacks of evasion.


Grrrr, silly lack of an edit. I also meant to say that I was under the impression that account sharing is against the ToS. I admit I haven't ready it through lately, and I may have just added that bit in myself, but I'm pretty sure.

While I was typing this, I had a petition resolved (Thank you, Castor) answering this question. Yes, account sharing is against ToS, and we should complain it as soon as we know about it, or are told about it, so that the text is captured in the chat log.
----------------------------------------
~Mergen - Captain- Ira Deorum; Queen- Regnum Irae

Cheers to Nordenx (and Framling!) for the avatar!
[Mar 27, 2007 9:49:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vorky

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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The relevant section in the TOS is
 

6 Restrictions. You agree not to do any of the following prohibited actions:
-2 permit any other person (including but not limited to a former member whose account Three Rings has terminated) to access Yohoho!, or create or provide any other means through which the Games may be played by anyone besides you (e.g., through server emulators);


So yes, sharing a account with someone that is banned, is a definite no-no.
Sharing an account with someone who wouldn't otherwise have access is also a no-no.
Sharing an account with others who haven't been banned and also have their own accounts would be the grey area from what I can see.
[Mar 27, 2007 9:54:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TarnumTheRed

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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I suppose it is hard to prove. But, I would think that there's got to be some way to actually do so. The suspected alt has almost the same stats as the banned 'main' pirate. He took over the position of Monarch of a flag as a greenie. He owns the ships/buildings/pets that the banned person had. To me, that just smacks of evasion.


If the right actions are taken*, there is no way to prove it. There are lots of pirates that have the same type of stats as me, but I am not them.

Unless you can get them to admit it via chat and then immediately /complain them, then it is very hard to catch them.

*Actions omitted so those who have not figured them out cannot use them.
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Tarnum

Darvid wrote: 
I guess it's just fun to poke the retarded bunny.
Muroni wrote: 
Who isn't sure that leif will let me enter him, but I'm willing to try.

[Mar 27, 2007 9:56:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TarnumTheRed

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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The relevant section in the TOS is
 

6 Restrictions. You agree not to do any of the following prohibited actions:
-2 permit any other person (including but not limited to a former member whose account Three Rings has terminated) to access Yohoho!, or create or provide any other means through which the Games may be played by anyone besides you (e.g., through server emulators);


So yes, sharing a account with someone that is banned, is a definite no-no.
Sharing an account with someone who wouldn't otherwise have access is also a no-no.
Sharing an account with others who haven't been banned and also have their own accounts would be the grey area from what I can see.


Lots of families use one account. This is well known and often ignored.
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Tarnum

Darvid wrote: 
I guess it's just fun to poke the retarded bunny.
Muroni wrote: 
Who isn't sure that leif will let me enter him, but I'm willing to try.

[Mar 27, 2007 9:57:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vorky

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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Well eventually the person that has been banned will probably repeat their action or do something else stupid and be banned again. Either that or they've learned their lesson and won't cause trouble ever again, either way it will reduce the level of trouble.
[Mar 27, 2007 10:15:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
r_nevermind

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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I suppose it is hard to prove. But, I would think that there's got to be some way to actually do so. The suspected alt has almost the same stats as the banned 'main' pirate. He took over the position of Monarch of a flag as a greenie. He owns the ships/buildings/pets that the banned person had. To me, that just smacks of evasion.


If the right actions are taken*, there is no way to prove it. There are lots of pirates that have the same type of stats as me, but I am not them.

Unless you can get them to admit it via chat and then immediately /complain them, then it is very hard to catch them.

*Actions omitted so those who have not figured them out cannot use them.


Ok, the stats part was a little silly of me, I admit. But, all the possessions? Plus, I'm sure there are other reasons why a flag would make a brand-new greenie Monarch of their flag, but I can't think of any.


On the account sharing portion, I know there are families who share accounts, and I don't have a problem with that, really. The problem I have is when people share their accounts specifically for the purposes of artificially raising their stats or, even sillier, getting trophies for them.
----------------------------------------
~Mergen - Captain- Ira Deorum; Queen- Regnum Irae

Cheers to Nordenx (and Framling!) for the avatar!
[Mar 27, 2007 10:23:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jolyma

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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If you're talking of the person I am thinking of, they haven't really made it a secret who he is either.

As for account sharing, if they can come up with a way to have flag and/or crew property that certain people can access, then that may eliminate alot of it.
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Jolyma

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[Mar 27, 2007 10:35:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
r_nevermind

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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If you're talking of the person I am thinking of, they haven't really made it a secret who he is either.

As for account sharing, if they can come up with a way to have flag and/or crew property that certain people can access, then that may eliminate alot of it.


I'm almost certain you know who I mean, Joly.

Also, I don't particularly care about people sharing accounts to share stuff. I agree there should be a way for crews or flags to share property, such as fleets, funds and commodities. As I said a little earlier, it's the ones who are having their ratings artificially boosted that really concern me. But, yes, I've complained both types. And no, nothing has been done to them, as far as I know.
----------------------------------------
~Mergen - Captain- Ira Deorum; Queen- Regnum Irae

Cheers to Nordenx (and Framling!) for the avatar!
[Mar 27, 2007 11:16:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
IantheKorean

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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If you've complained, let it go it's in OM hands. I would imagine they're either they're keeping tabs on the users IP and actions if they do think the accused is ban-evading or they came to the conclusion that they aren't ban evading due to having a hell of a lot more information and resources about who was complained than simply a hunch based on similiar stats.
[Mar 28, 2007 1:38:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
P1P3L1N3

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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I know where you're coming from, Mergy. Everyone who has been around for a while knows that said person is said banned person. And, well, if I know, who doesn't! ;)

I'd imagine several complaints have been filed, and I'm... well... just not sure what's happening. As Jolyma said, he also hasn't been making it a secret (not only through his possessions, but through his actions).

Anyway: main reason I'm replying. What's the view on sharing an account, but that account is an alt? (Not that I do it, but it just interests me...)

- Pipeline,
wondering
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Pipeline of Viridian
[Mar 28, 2007 2:44:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lynzerlot

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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To expand on Pipeline's question:

What OOO's position on alts that were created specifically for the crew to use? For example, I've heard of crews creating alts for the explicit purpose of only holding charts in order to make them available to all officers in that crew.
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Lynzerlot, SO of Pleasureful Sins, Hunter

Lyndsy, still a Hunter on Sage
SO of Wild Cards on Malachite
Assassin for hire.
[Mar 28, 2007 3:24:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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That depends on which end of the sword you're on.

When OOO is banning accounts, they don't differentiate between purposes, mostly because it's ridiculous to expect them to ask such questions before banning. ("Excuse me, can I ban you, please?")

When OOO is handling banpleading, they seem to be more understanding about crew or shared accounts. (The precedent which is foremost in my mind here is Halee's account getting unbanned after the JtB bannination)

Shoot first, answer questions and rectify the situation later.
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
[Mar 28, 2007 6:20:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
r_nevermind

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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I appreciate all of you who've taken the time to discuss this in a polite and friendly manner.

Ian, My "hunch" is not based on similar stats. There are many things that make it pretty well obvious (to other pirates and me, at least) that the pirate in question is, in fact, a ban-evading alt.


 
To expand on Pipeline's question:

What OOO's position on alts that were created specifically for the crew to use? For example, I've heard of crews creating alts for the explicit purpose of only holding charts in order to make them available to all officers in that crew.


I've even known a major crew that used a shared account as the Captain of the crew. Posted it in their crew information, and everything. I'd really like to know OOO's position on this as well.
----------------------------------------
~Mergen - Captain- Ira Deorum; Queen- Regnum Irae

Cheers to Nordenx (and Framling!) for the avatar!
[Mar 28, 2007 6:52:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Burnt_Water

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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For example, I've heard of crews creating alts for the explicit purpose of only holding charts in order to make them available to all officers in that crew.

Having the charts stored on a sloop is ineffective?
----------------------------------------
Hard and big guide to whack off Brigands
How to make a pirate feel good
[Mar 28, 2007 6:54:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Bored en route? Bring a book or puzzle next time. [Link]  Go to top 
IantheKorean

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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Ian, My "hunch" is not based on similar stats. There are many things that make it pretty well obvious (to other pirates and me, at least) that the pirate in question is, in fact, a ban-evading alt.


Thats all well and good. I was only implying that the information OOO have on the situation is by far more reliable and extensive, so I have no reason to assume as to why they haven't banned the "alt" for ban evasion. Other circumstances must be at work beyond the "many things that make it pretty well obvious." In other words, making a thread after already taking the appropriate avenues via complaints is extraneous and the topic is pretty ridiculous. Alt banning/account sharing has been shown to be taken on a case-by-case basis and it'd be wise of you in the future to actually try a search since there have been more threads on this topic than I care to remember.
[Mar 28, 2007 7:20:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
r_nevermind

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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If you find the topic ridiculous, ignore it. No one forced you to read it, to reply, to continue to read it... Go your own way, and ignore me, I promise I won't mind.
----------------------------------------
~Mergen - Captain- Ira Deorum; Queen- Regnum Irae

Cheers to Nordenx (and Framling!) for the avatar!
[Mar 28, 2007 7:31:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
damagon

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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If you find the topic ridiculous, ignore it. No one forced you to read it, to reply, to continue to read it... Go your own way, and ignore me, I promise I won't mind.


Or we can post and tart about the ridiculousness of this thread. Considering this is Parley...
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Damagon
[Mar 28, 2007 7:34:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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If you find the topic ridiculous, ignore it. No one forced you to read it, to reply, to continue to read it... Go your own way, and ignore me, I promise I won't mind.
You're funny.
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
[Mar 28, 2007 7:59:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sibr39

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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Thats all well and good. I was only implying that the information OOO have on the situation is by far more reliable and extensive,


Quite possibly, except even I know who Merg is talking about, and the situation is not unique. Perhaps it is a bigger problem on Viridian than elsewhere, I really could not say.

High ranking member of the flag gets banned. Said member is replaced shortly thereafter by a previously unknown character. Said character quickly develops stats/qualities "adjacent" to banned individual. Coincedence? If you care to think so.
----------------------------------------
Sibrseadog

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Ozymandias said:
 
Look upon my works ye Mighty and despair.

[Mar 28, 2007 8:08:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Talisker

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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Usually they stick around because someone is protecting them. They know the identity, they just aren't revealing it. This seems to happen a lot more on green oceans, in my experience. That being said, I have no idea why a banned player would be allowed to continue playing on an alt.

I thought for a bit this was going to be about Maxdemian, who was permanently banned and for awhile was logging on with unbanned peoples accounts on Midnight. No idea if that's still going on, but some of those players who let him are normally smarter than that and should probably be poked with sticks.
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Leif
The Forums
Gunnermooch wrote: 
I can't respond because I do not understand what the hell you are talking about. Sorry.

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[Mar 28, 2007 8:17:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
djibouti

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I think you should name said person here. I mean everyone already knows who it is right?

i'm just looking for a fun tartfest, and that would be a hilarious one
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Crispix
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Yar, the laws of science be a harsh mistress.
[Mar 28, 2007 8:33:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
da_ripper

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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I think you should name said person here. I mean everyone already knows who it is right?

i'm just looking for a fun tartfest, and that would be a hilarious one




I second this.
----------------------------------------
 
Game over. Winner: Expel.
Antix says, "Expel just pikachu'd the charizard out of him"
Antix says, "Nice one"
Expel says, "Super effective"

Chimeravirus of Viridian.
[Mar 28, 2007 8:41:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Poke_Me

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I might be a little ignorant, and havent a clue who we're talking bout, mainly cause I havent caught up with the political tides of Viridian yet,

But to suggest theres nothing suspicious going on, is mad. no respectable Flag would let any greenie become monarch, even if they were political figureheads from other oceans or flags. Im sure the ocean masters arent silly enough to ignore it.

But Ian youre one who likes to play devils advocate, I think every thread needs one for it to get fruity, well played.
IMO, this thread is a public complaint about a problem that is widely known about but hasnt been dealt with, or at least not to the public eye. battered up to be more indirectly so. Mergen I hear your call, and Im with you on it.

just a theory,
Say said person was a major Dub purchaser, and I mean major, Ringers get complaints left right and centre about said person, ocean begins to grumble, so they ban him as a public show that people can see they are dealing with the corrupt in a just way. but of course Because of the income said person brings to the game, he is given a blind eye on new alt. Not a ringer corruption conspiracy theory, but a suggestion that when business comes head to head with foul play, could it be placing business before ingame justice?
----------------------------------------
Pokemey Houston sings I will always luff joo

Back to defend his Viridian Idol crown.
[Mar 28, 2007 9:01:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
da_ripper

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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I might be a little ignorant, and havent a clue who we're talking bout, mainly cause I havent caught up with the political tides of Viridian yet,

But to suggest theres nothing suspicious going on, is mad. no respectable Flag would let any greenie become monarch, even if they were political figureheads from other oceans or flags. Im sure the ocean masters arent silly enough to ignore it.

But Ian youre one who likes to play devils advocate, I think every thread needs one for it to get fruity, well played.
IMO, this thread is a public complaint about a problem that is widely known about but hasnt been dealt with, or at least not to the public eye. battered up to be more indirectly so. Mergen I hear your call, and Im with you on it.

just a theory,
Say said person was a major Dub purchaser, and I mean major, Ringers get complaints left right and centre about said person, ocean begins to grumble, so they ban him as a public show that people can see they are dealing with the corrupt in a just way. but of course Because of the income said person brings to the game, he is given a blind eye on new alt. Not a ringer corruption conspiracy theory, but a suggestion that when business comes head to head with foul play, could it be placing business before ingame justice?




Oooh, business is sneaky O:.
----------------------------------------
 
Game over. Winner: Expel.
Antix says, "Expel just pikachu'd the charizard out of him"
Antix says, "Nice one"
Expel says, "Super effective"

Chimeravirus of Viridian.
[Mar 28, 2007 9:03:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

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Re: On Account Sharing and Ban-evading Reply to this Post
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Not a ringer corruption conspiracy theory, but a suggestion that when business comes head to head with foul play, could it be placing business before ingame justice?
Actually, that's exactly what it is. A ringer corruption conspiracy theory.

It's extremely (extremely!) difficult to ban someone on the internet. Until thumbprint scanners become standard equipment on computers, there's no way to really keep someone off your website. If they change ISPs, move, buy a new computer, visit a friend's house, access your site from school or a library, access your site over wireless through someone else's connection, spoof their settings, or whatever else, you have no real way of keeping them off your website, game, or whatever else.

As such, OOO doesn't do a full and complete background check on every single user who stumbles across the site. They don't have the resources, and even if they did, as I've illustrated above, such a checking process would be futile anyway.

OOO only gets involved if they have reason to suspect something's rotten in Denmark. This might be a /complaint, this might be Liz-Inna-Box coming up with something funny, whatever. But OOO personnel aren't psychic, and while they're smarter than your average gas station attendant, don't know what they aren't told. If you want to point out someone breaking a rule, do it, and if they can uncover sufficient proof, that person will face the consequences. If nobody points it out, and they have no other reason to suspect a rule being broken, then they won't waste their resources on an investigation. Common sense, isn't it?
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
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