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Thunderbird

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Flag Broadcast Update? Reply to this Post
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I did a search on this, but the only stuff I found was very old and I'm not one for trashdigging (I just closed 2 threads on another forum for doing that).

One thing I have seen that bothers me is that Flag Royalty permissions cannot be adjusted in any way. They have power to vote, and flag broadcast permissions. These cannot be separated in the current version of the game. I have one question: Why? Why are flag politics forced to be Oligarchic? At least with crews we can choose between Autocratic, Oligarchic and Democratic (the last one would be a bad choice for flags, as it would take forever to pass any votes). Why not have a choice between Autocratic and Oligarchic for flag politics as well? Many crews are Autocratic for convienence, but they actually have a panel discuss decisions before they are put in. I know a few flags that appear to do this as well (judging by the fact that they have no Royalty). However, in order to do this, nobody can hold a Royalty permission, which means in order to broadcast a Flag Event to the entire flag, the Monarch has to be online to do it. If the Monarch is busy, or has RL/technology issues, it results in a /fo send while individual officers forward it to their crews for the Pirates and Cabin People to hear. This is hardly an efficient way to do things, but it is forced upon us for the flags that want only one person to effect decisions while a set of flag members decides stuff on a forum.

So, I guess the request of this post is for the Devs to make flag politics a choice between Autocratic and Oligarchic, much the same way it is for crews.
----------------------------------------
Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
Pirate tells you, "ZOMG CANDYFLOSS!!! *munches*"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Nemo at Sep 20, 2005 6:23:53 PM]
[Feb 10, 2004 6:52:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Telastyn



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Re: Flag Royalty and Voting Rights Reply to this Post
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Most flags I've jobbed around with have their royalty merely not vote until a consensus has been made. Thus they have royalty broadcast with an autocratic voting scheme.



But I don't know. I've never been royalty.
[Feb 10, 2004 7:04:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

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It's rather inefficient to do it that way. RR had royalty for a bit for the purpose of flag broadcasts, but as you can see now, we no longer do. The voting issue got in the way, so all the royalty voted themselves back to titled members.
----------------------------------------
Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
Pirate tells you, "ZOMG CANDYFLOSS!!! *munches*"
[Feb 10, 2004 7:10:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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Re: Flag Royalty and Voting Rights Reply to this Post
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Seems to me that extending the /fb command to Titled Members would do the trick. Probably not a bad idea.

atteSmythe,
who seems to remember that better permission control is on the list
----------------------------------------
 
Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

[Feb 10, 2004 7:18:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://attesmythe.com [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Re: Flag Royalty and Voting Rights Reply to this Post
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We could make fb titled and up, easily enough. Sure.
[Feb 10, 2004 7:40:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Obie



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Re: Flag Royalty and Voting Rights Reply to this Post
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I think that's a great idea. The sooner that could be implemented, the better :)
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Obie
Argonaut wrote: 
I'm glad brown will become easier to get. I think it's very important to wear brown pants while sailing in Ruby.

[Feb 10, 2004 7:42:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xagoloth

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Just wondering, shouldn't captains be automatically included to be able to use the fb broadcast ?

Without requiring titles and royalty.
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JackSparrow
www.mashrur.com
[Feb 10, 2004 7:48:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mashrur.com    jaquesparrow@yahoo.com    mashsurfer [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

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Re: Flag Royalty and Voting Rights Reply to this Post
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I'd have to say no on this, because that removes a degree of control that a flag has over who can use the flag broadcast feature.

This wasn't exactly the course of action I was aiming for (moving broadcast permission to titled members), but I realize how much of a pain it can be to make changes that add a completely new item to a certain area.
----------------------------------------
Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
Pirate tells you, "ZOMG CANDYFLOSS!!! *munches*"
[Feb 10, 2004 8:46:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jothmar



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I would love for my captains to be able to /fb and for titled members to be able to /fb as well (honestly I wouldn't mind if everyone in the flag could do that ranked pirate and above but I can certainly see why many flags would absolutely hate that). Its nice to be able to easily communicate with everyone in the flag.
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Kelyon Hawk of Fidelis Bellum
[Feb 10, 2004 9:48:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
quixmix

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Re: Flag Royalty and Voting Rights Reply to this Post
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I agree with having settings for politics, esp now that Flags are a major part of the game. We are all forced to operate at the same political level, essentially a republic. Rather annoying, I might add. Some of us like it, some of us don't, I have always thought it should be an option, rather than a set political schema.
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Ace o' Hearts
Captain of The Last Exiles
[Feb 10, 2004 1:36:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

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/me gets out his shovel and digs this one up.

This is still an issue, IMO. I would really like to see /fb permission extended to titled members.

(EDIT)I'd rename the thread, as it's topic is somewhat different now, but for some reason I cannot edit a post older than 180 days.
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Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
Pirate tells you, "ZOMG CANDYFLOSS!!! *munches*"
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Thunderbird at Sep 20, 2005 5:00:30 PM]
[Sep 20, 2005 4:59:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
chewyshoe

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Re: Flag Royalty and Voting Rights Reply to this Post
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Yeah, titled up please =).
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Funny exam answers | Free online contests
[Sep 20, 2005 6:21:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Katryvna

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Re: Flag Broadcast Update? Reply to this Post
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I would love to see the /fb to be available to titled and up.
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Katryvna on all Oceans

SO The Birds ~Viridian


~I'm so Crewless~
[Sep 20, 2005 7:32:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Clerks76

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Re: Flag Broadcast Update? Reply to this Post
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I would love to see the /fb to be available to titled and up.

Ditto.
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Vulgarbeard
~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~
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Lord of Avalon
http://avalon.nightstar.ca/forum/

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[Sep 21, 2005 8:33:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://avalon.nightstar.ca/forum/ [Link]  Go to top 
fr4nk

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Just, no. The system works just fine for me the way it is, although the original idea posted by Thunderbird does make me go, "Hmm.."

There's too much potential for mixed messages, especially during blockades. If royalty says send /tells to such and such a flag to lend support over /fb, what stops a lord or lady with friends on the opposing side to /fb for that side?
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Misery
[Sep 21, 2005 3:46:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thecrimsontide.org    kyuuket5u [Link]  Go to top 
Jacktheblack

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Re: Flag Broadcast Update? Reply to this Post
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Just, no. The system works just fine for me the way it is, although the original idea posted by Thunderbird does make me go, "Hmm.."

There's too much potential for mixed messages, especially during blockades. If royalty says send /tells to such and such a flag to lend support over /fb, what stops a lord or lady with friends on the opposing side to /fb for that side?



Maybe they shouldn't be a lord or lady then?
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Dylan

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Not all flags have 10 royalty and 40ish nobility.

I think most flags would like the option of allowing nobilty to broadcast. No need for it to be forced on those that don't.

Dylan
[Sep 21, 2005 3:56:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

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Something to note: Titled members of a flag currently do not gain any priviledges in the flag, so some flags toss that position about willy-nilly. Perhaps this might change if the request herein is coded in?

Personally, I prefer allowing flags to be able to choose politics like crews (as I originally suggested), but the current proposition is probably easier to code. There are several flags that don't appoint royalty in order to be able to do things quickly (off the top of my head I can think of 3 flags that do this, there are probably many more).
----------------------------------------
Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
Pirate tells you, "ZOMG CANDYFLOSS!!! *munches*"
[Sep 21, 2005 8:03:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
fr4nk

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Re: Flag Broadcast Update? Reply to this Post
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Dylan wrote: 
Not all flags have 10 royalty and 40ish nobility.

I think most flags would like the option of allowing nobilty to broadcast. No need for it to be forced on those that don't.

Dylan

I'd agree with it being an *option*.
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Misery
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by fr4nk at Sep 21, 2005 9:07:08 PM]
[Sep 21, 2005 9:06:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thecrimsontide.org    kyuuket5u [Link]  Go to top 
Firien



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Re: Flag Broadcasting Reply to this Post
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Bump the titled-can-fb, since we're re-discussing this in game yet again, it'd be useful, there's a post by Cleaver saying it wouldn't be difficult, and having a title is currently mere decoration and/or pointless depending on your PoV.

Didn't want to create a new thread on it and am personally avoiding the voting rights part of it because that's not something relevant to me, but titled /fb would be A Good Thing, whether hard-set or flag-option. (Whichever's easier sounds good to me...)
----------------------------------------
Aerias rawx! Visit her hugely stockedFULL tailor rack on Oyster!
-------
Now playing on Sage...
[Mar 14, 2006 12:19:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Faithling123



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Re: Flag Broadcasting Reply to this Post
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Bump the titled-can-fb, since we're re-discussing this in game yet again, it'd be useful, there's a post by Cleaver saying it wouldn't be difficult, and having a title is currently mere decoration and/or pointless depending on your PoV.

Didn't want to create a new thread on it and am personally avoiding the voting rights part of it because that's not something relevant to me, but titled /fb would be A Good Thing, whether hard-set or flag-option. (Whichever's easier sounds good to me...)



I'd have to agree with Fir - I think it'd be a nice *option* if that's possible...

~Bunnicula~
[Mar 14, 2006 12:22:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Grayside

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Tying broadcasting to a flag political scheme would be interesting. It feels like the only right way to spread broadcasting in different ways.

Currently 'Titled' just means you get a fancy name. Its a public recognition of flag dedication. I'd prefer to be able to hand out Titles without giving other powers.

Flag Political Schemas

Names here are just convenient labels. This is leaving out wacky ideas like two monarchs.

* Tyrannical: Monarch has broadcast & only vote
* High Council: Monarch has broadcast, Royals have vote
* Oligarchy: Royals have vote & broadcast
* Bureacracy: Titled+ have Broadcast, Royals have vote
* Republic: Royals have broadcast, Titled+ have vote
* Aristocracy: Titled+ has Broadcast & Vote

So the current standard is "Oligarchy".

No one not of flag rank should have any influence in the above. Otherwise you may as well just eliminate flags.

<Deleted wordy explanation of the above that seemed redundant.>
----------------------------------------
Firestone, Captain, Mad Tea Party, Cobalt
Gallant, PotD, Midnight

[Mar 14, 2006 2:09:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://grayside.org/ypp/mayhem    Tires.Pirate [Link]  Go to top 
drc500free

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* Bureacratic Oligarchy: Titled+ have chat, Royals have vote & broadcast.

etc. ;)
----------------------------------------
-Darvid
sundancer wrote: 
will you please explain to me one more time why it would not be acceptable to blockade us?
Squid wrote: 
Because I shouldn't have to go through all that effort.

[Mar 14, 2006 2:11:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Firien



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Re: Flag Broadcasting Reply to this Post
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Tying broadcasting to a flag political scheme would be interesting. It feels like the only right way to spread broadcasting in different ways.

Currently 'Titled' just means you get a fancy name. Its a public recognition of flag dedication. I'd prefer to be able to hand out Titles without giving other powers.


I'm curious - what do you use fb for (I'd be looking at "anyone want to come pilly, send me a tell" and similar), and more so that you're proud enough of people to title them but stilll don't trust them to be able to handle broadcasting...
----------------------------------------
Aerias rawx! Visit her hugely stockedFULL tailor rack on Oyster!
-------
Now playing on Sage...
[Mar 14, 2006 2:19:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
NewMadHatter

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I think that having the ability to choose the flag gov type is a fine idea. Exlcluding democratic of course.
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Unitnine on Viridian
Captain of the crew "Axe Gang"
King of the flag "Devils Destroyers"
[Mar 14, 2006 2:40:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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I'm curious - what do you use fb for (I'd be looking at "anyone want to come pilly, send me a tell" and similar), and more so that you're proud enough of people to title them but stilll don't trust them to be able to handle broadcasting...


aye, i use /fb fer "come pilly with me!" but also fer "the blockade is starting in xxx minutes - send a telll to YYY fer a job" when our allies are being attacked.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Mar 14, 2006 2:51:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Grayside

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I don't want every royal and titled member flag broadcasting for pillies. /fo does just fine for passing the word.

We use it for matters of flag importance and making the presence of royals felt. If a titled member is up to something that makes broadcasting an important power I'd rather deputize them to royalty to underscore their activities.

But this is the point- every flag operates differently, especially across different sizes and levels of inter-crew involvement. As I see it, if /fb and /fo are tossed around constantly, then the existence of flags is just a style point, you may as well just be in a large crew.

So that makes this whole post just again... "Flag Broadcast as an option is good"

I am probably biased though. The first time I used /fb I giggled at my newfound power.
----------------------------------------
Firestone, Captain, Mad Tea Party, Cobalt
Gallant, PotD, Midnight

[Mar 14, 2006 2:51:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://grayside.org/ypp/mayhem    Tires.Pirate [Link]  Go to top 
TamiTee

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Just a minor derail. Could we also give titled the power to post flag news? Several "alternative" flag titles could use this convience without having to be voting members of the flag. Event Coordinators, Treasurers, Blockade coordinators etc....
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Tamitee
Captain of Ramen Noodles
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[Mar 14, 2006 3:09:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Firien



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As a clarification, I'll just point out the difference in my head between royalty and titled: royalty have to worry about politics. Titled can play the rest of the game :)
----------------------------------------
Aerias rawx! Visit her hugely stockedFULL tailor rack on Oyster!
-------
Now playing on Sage...
[Mar 14, 2006 4:38:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kanddak

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I'm all for /fb, flag news posting, and /ro chat for titles- give em everything except a vote.
Being able to give people some recognition without any power is nice, but I think a practical game design feature should take priority over it being purely cosmetic- besides, you could use your flag's public or private statement to list people you wish to acknowledge.
As for the "but what if all the titles start broadcasting about trivial stuff?!" argument- Sage has plenty of flags with enough royalty to cause this problem. Bad flags will always find a way to be horrible, and that shouldn't impede a useful suggestion. Just announce the change in advance, so that people have time to remove any titles they don't want to be able to broadcast.
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-Kanddak, Sage Ocean
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