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FyreFaerie

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Hover Buttons - Reviewing Chat Streams Reply to this Post
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TOPIC SUMMARY

Often while discussing flag or crew issues, and/or standing in large dock circles, the dialogue builds up fast enough that one can lose their way when replying and interpreting messages. There is a lot of back-scrolling or "Where did that came from"s. So...

Proposed idea:
To implement some sort of toggle to allow players to see only one stream of conversation at a time. Possibly connected to the scroll-change button?

For example:
- All conversations
- Crew chat only
- Regional chat (Speaking/Shouting/Emotes)
etc...

Maybe a good way of determining streams may be by the current colour codes used. This idea I believe may be not to hard to implement because the dialogues are already divided when being broadcast to the different players.
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fyre / fyrefaerie / laura
Senior Officer of Pirates of the Damned
@chicgeek on twitter
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by FyreFaerie at Jan 22, 2004 1:58:40 PM]
[Jan 22, 2004 1:58:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.laurakishimoto.ca    girlthatisgeek    girlthatisgeek    24427833 [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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Re: Hover Buttons - Reviewing Chat Streams Reply to this Post
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I don't like this idea because it goes against what realism as we have surrounding channels.

If you are in a circle, you should always hear 'speak'
Being member of a crew means you should always hear 'crew'
You should just plain *always* hear shouts, they are by nature meant to be disruptive and attention getting.

the only exception to that is individual muting of people.

If ye only want to hear one convo at a time, get everyone on a boat, 's what we do when we need private conversations, or to make sure everyone can follow what's being said.
[Jan 22, 2004 2:14:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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Re: Hover Buttons - Reviewing Chat Streams Reply to this Post
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booched, devonin. go check design outlines.

[size=7]hint: fun > realism
----------------------------------------
- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Jan 22, 2004 5:58:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
FyreFaerie

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Re: Hover Buttons - Reviewing Chat Streams Reply to this Post
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Haha, agreed Garf. :)
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fyre / fyrefaerie / laura
Senior Officer of Pirates of the Damned
@chicgeek on twitter
[Jan 23, 2004 12:28:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.laurakishimoto.ca    girlthatisgeek    girlthatisgeek    24427833 [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: Hover Buttons - Reviewing Chat Streams Reply to this Post
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How about this one, then: if you don't like hearing all the other chat and want to concentrate on one, move to a smaller circle. If it's a recurring problem, don't stand in big circles.

I'm afraid I have no sympathy, sorry. I can think of a billion things I'd rather see done.
[Jan 23, 2004 12:55:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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Re: Hover Buttons - Reviewing Chat Streams Reply to this Post
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I also disagree with this. There's already enough of a problem with people not paying attention to chat. Someone on your crew accidentally leaving /crew and /tell shut off would be impossible to get a hold of.

While not the prettiest solution, you can make the chat overlay go to full screen to check the 'backlog'. If people are talking so much that even a full screen isn't enough, you need to tell one of your groups to cram it for a while or take it to a different chat channel. Most crew business can be done on a ship, for instance.

atteSmythe,
who's told the flag officers, on occasion, to cram it.
----------------------------------------
 
Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

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FyreFaerie

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Re: Hover Buttons - Reviewing Chat Streams Reply to this Post
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Aye, I see there's a lot of disagreement. :)

I do maintain that I believe it would be advantageous to many pirates. The only time I am in large circles is when I am involved in the discussion within them. If I am not "speaking" to anyone, I do move aside as you had suggested Homullus. A proposal does not require sympathy - I was not looking for it. I was merely putting out a suggestion for others to consider or discard, as has been done. Thankyou for your time.

Atte - too often have I done that, the full screen dialogue, and do find it less than appealing which is why I suggest this method. As for not paying attention to chat enough (I agree!) then maybe a button when depressed views only that stream? Once released, the normal stream would continue.

This topic has been pretty much denied by its readers. I posted it with the intention of gauging the benefits of the idea and there seem to be few - appreciation to the reactions. :)
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fyre / fyrefaerie / laura
Senior Officer of Pirates of the Damned
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[Jan 23, 2004 2:14:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.laurakishimoto.ca    girlthatisgeek    girlthatisgeek    24427833 [Link]  Go to top 
stigant



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What about if these options only worked in the fullscreen chat mode that Atte mentioned. In otherwords, if you are trying to scroll back to see what was said on crew chat, you could go to full page chat, filter out all but crew and then read. As soon as you went back to half screen chat (which you have to do eventually if you hope to get anything in game accomplished), all filters will be cleared again.

In a similar vein, I'd like to see a couple of tweeks to the chat system:
1. The ability to filter out xxx has left the ship (which always seems to be followed by xxx has logged out and xxx has left your crew).
2. Make the Your crew member xxx has done yyy a different color for job crew (ie make it pink like the rest of job crew chat) than for permanent crew.
3. Make the colors on the full screen chat match the colors of their chat channels in half screen. In other words, job crew chat is currently pink in half screen, but when I go to full screen chat, it blends in with several other channels.
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Stigs
Minister of Edumacation, All But Malice
SO of Innocent
[Jan 23, 2004 2:21:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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Re: Hover Buttons - Reviewing Chat Streams Reply to this Post
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Garf wrote: 
booched, devonin


How can I be booched for stating my personal opinino as to what I thought about being able to turn off or filter out channels?
[Jan 23, 2004 2:40:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xagoloth

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Re: Hover Buttons - Reviewing Chat Streams Reply to this Post
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Devonin wrote: 
Garf wrote: 
booched, devonin


How can I be booched for stating my personal opinino as to what I thought about being able to turn off or filter out channels?


ROFL

/em who can barely wait to see what Garf has to say in reponse.
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JackSparrow
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stigant



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I don't like this idea because it goes against what realism as we have surrounding channels.


 

 
booched, devonin



How can I be booched for stating my personal opinino as to what I thought about being able to turn off or filter out channels?



His point was fun takes precedence over realism, so your opinion IS booched. Either, in the interest of realism, we shouldn't have any chat channel other than /speak and /shout, or in the interest of fun we should have the ability to filter. Either way, you're booched.
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Stigs
Minister of Edumacation, All But Malice
SO of Innocent
[Jan 23, 2004 6:14:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Smurrf



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Sorry, got in this one late.

But I actually like the idea of switching back and forth between views of different kinds of chats, if nothing else than to see if ye missed anything.

I also would REALLY like for the "Your crew member Greenbeard has logged on" message to be color-coded based on jobbing crew or main crew. Too many times I've gone "Who the hells is that?" to myself, only to find out they're in the crew I was jobbing with. I'd like to know if the possible greenie that just logged on is ours so I can try to convince him to subscribe, and become a pirate/puzzler at large without having to back out of my puzzle.
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Hermit Smurrf
[Jan 23, 2004 6:22:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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So because his opinion (fun > realism) runs contrary to mine (filters defeat the purpose of channels), I'm booched? Why isn't he the one who is booched? I said it first!



Garf Knows I'm only joking. So should ye all.
[Jan 23, 2004 6:23:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Pokeytax

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So when do we get the update that keeps me from choosing the wrong tab and blabbing to my whole jobbing crew?
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Pokeytax on Malachite
Pokey on Midnight
[Jan 23, 2004 6:25:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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That would be an update to your thinker's firmware, not the game software.
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Tee_Beard



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homullus wrote: 
That would be an update to your thinker's firmware, not the game software.


I'm gonna have a field day the day you booch chat.

Thesis
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Thesis
It’s kind of funny/sad how I still can find the thing that made me part of Y!PP canon.
[Jan 23, 2004 6:59:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Tee_Beard wrote: 

I'm gonna have a field day the day you booch chat.


Everyone booches chat occasionally. Serial booching to the point of needing an update to fix it is different.

Me, I thought Pokeytax was joking, so I went along with the joke to make another.
[Jan 23, 2004 7:06:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Tee_Beard



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homullus wrote: 
Everyone booches chat occasionally. Serial booching to the point of needing an update to fix it is different.

Me, I thought Pokeytax was joking, so I went along with the joke to make another.


That ain't gonna save ya.

Thesis,
who diabolically laughs! Diabolically!
----------------------------------------
Thesis
It’s kind of funny/sad how I still can find the thing that made me part of Y!PP canon.
[Jan 23, 2004 7:21:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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Devonin wrote: 
So because his opinion (fun > realism) runs contrary to mine (filters defeat the purpose of channels), I'm booched?


no, because thats the ringers opinion and clearly outlined here - scroll down to "Q. What are your high-level design goals?". of course you read the faq before posting, didn't you?


[size=7]of course, my point was that devs argument is booched, not his opinion.
----------------------------------------
- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Jan 23, 2004 7:46:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
FyreFaerie

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Re: Hover Buttons - Reviewing Chat Streams Reply to this Post
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[quote]So when do we get the update that keeps me from choosing the wrong tab and blabbing to my whole jobbing crew?[/quote]
Slooplevee has been known to tell his crew "I love you" and snog them. I was a little indignant. :D

I still like the idea of switching between chats, even if it's just when you hold down a button or the like.. :D[/quote]
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fyre / fyrefaerie / laura
Senior Officer of Pirates of the Damned
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[Jan 23, 2004 8:24:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.laurakishimoto.ca    girlthatisgeek    girlthatisgeek    24427833 [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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This proposed feature would be horrible if you NEEDED to get someone's attention. If you need quiet, go onto a ship. That cuts out "regional" chat. For crew and flag chat, you have to tell everyone they're being blabbermouths and you want quiet.

To make an extreme example, if my flag's island is being blockaded, I do NOT want half of my crew to be off elsewhere because they'd muted /tell, /crew, and /flag commands.

As for being booched, I could point out that fun over realism means that we often need the ability to be annoying and get each others attention in order to maintain the fun of the game, and if you don't like all the racket, you're going to have to use workarounds to reduce it.
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
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Louster



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I don't see that any of the proposed difficulties of this suggestion counter the sheer convenience of the thing. DAoC got the whole chat system thing exactly right, in my opinion - it was one of the very few good things about it. Anyone who mutes /tell would be an idiot, anyway.

It's especially annoying in a large crew, on a large ship, with tons of people all talking in /crew, /vessel and /tell, while also doing a duty puzzle or whatnot. If there was just one stream of conversation, I would find it possible to switch focus between playing the puzzle and reading it, but keeping track of 3, 4 or more conversations all at once is just tiresome, and mentally filtering out messages which are irrelevant takes time. I usually end up switching off to the conversation and getting on with the puzzle, often missing important stuff.

And "telling people to shut up" is an absolutely ridiculous idea.
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Eats barfs.
[Jan 27, 2004 3:47:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Louster wrote: 
And "telling people to shut up" is an absolutely ridiculous idea.


No it isn't. Fun AND realism.
[Jan 27, 2004 3:49:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Louster



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Yes, it is. Screw "realism" - it's not "fun" at all, it inconveniences other people just to avoid them inconveniencing you, and could be so very easily altered to everyone's benefit.
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Eats barfs.
[Jan 27, 2004 3:57:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Louster wrote: 
Yes, it is. Screw "realism" - it's not "fun" at all, it inconveniences other people just to avoid them inconveniencing you, and could be so very easily altered to everyone's benefit.


I think we just covered the "lack of" that goes before "benefit."
[Jan 27, 2004 4:02:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Louster



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I simply disagree. "Move to a smaller circle" is basically impossible in a lot of cases. "Tell people to shut up" is impolite and can cause major inconvenience to a far greater extent than the inconvenience the conversation causes for you.
 
There's already enough of a problem with people not paying attention to chat.
would be at least partially solved by having chat tabs/filters, as I've said. I find it hard to pay attention to chat when there's simply too much of it.

And "people muting /tell, /crew" and suchlike is simply a problem with those people, and could be solved by having, say, a channel dedicated to important crew announcements - THEN you'd be within your rights to tell people to shut up, who're using that channel improperly.
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Eats barfs.
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Cailet



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Louster wrote: 
I "Tell people to shut up" is impolite and can cause major inconvenience to a far greater extent than the inconvenience the conversation causes for you.


You could politely ask if the conversation absolutely has to happen over a particular channel. something like "this conversation isn't really a crew chat, so maybe you guys could find a vessel somewhere? Sorry, but its hard to filter it out from the stuff that I hafta be paying attention to".

Yea, its a little bit of an incovenience, but then, so is baking. (don't ask)
At any rate, eventually, people would get the idea, and you wouldn't have to ask as often...no programming from the devs needed.

I brought it up in my flag/crew a couple of times and haven't had a problem since.

And if your crew doesn't learn, well...

/em bites her tongue muttering "if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all"
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Louster



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The point is, that "little bit of inconvenience" can be reduced to "no inconvenience" with barely any, as I see it, problems.

Edit - unless you're talking about the inconvenience of actually programming the thing, but that shouldn't really be relevant. To be sure, I can make do with the current system, and would prefer other more pressing things to take priority, but I just don't see any realistic reason why this shouldn't be implemented at some point.
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Eats barfs.
[Jan 27, 2004 4:24:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cailet



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Except that actually programming any kind of user interface with a game can be timeconsuming, and most of us would rather have our wonderful devs working on other gamechanging things.

Louster wrote: 


Edit - unless you're talking about the inconvenience of actually programming the thing, but that shouldn't really be relevant. To be sure, I can make do with the current system, and would prefer other more pressing things to take priority, but I just don't see any realistic reason why this shouldn't be implemented at some point.


Perhaps because "The List" is -long- already, and it doesn't include everything that eventually gets worked on. If you were a programmer, you'd get it.
[Jan 27, 2004 4:26:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Louster



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Sure. But it's convenient, its advantages greatly outweigh its potential disadvantages, and so, as I see it, it has merit as an addition. Exactly how much merit, and whereabouts upon The List it should be entered, isn't entirely relevant, I feel. That should be something that's left up to the developers, not the players.
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Eats barfs.
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