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nindar



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Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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I thought all that mattered was what you put in the mix, but maybe not...

How do you get incredible on the distilling puzzle? I've done full crystal clears with spice and still only get excellents.

Do burnt pieces/wasted spice count against your final results?

Naan
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atteSmythe

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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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Well, I haven't gotten below Incredible in a while, so I don't know where the cutoff is, but...

Burnt pieces don't affect your score, and I don't believe that wasted spice does, either.

All Crystal Clears is good, but you need to start getting them in a row. All crystals, plus a Crystal^3 or so should get you an incredible.

atteSmythe,
who had a Crystal ^8/9 all set up, but the game ended. Whoops.
----------------------------------------
 
Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

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WhoIsYou



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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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The in-game help docs wrote: 
The more spice ye use, the better the batch can be, but wasting spice counts against ye.


The key is sending up only crystal clears. If it isn't a cyrstal clear, move the white pieces to the left until you can make one. Don't worry about getting 8 or 9 in a row, that's only for show. CC^3 and ^2 will get you an incredible just the same.

I've also tried ignoring multiple crystal clears and only going after crystal clear spiced rows. Not wasting any spice also got me an incredible.

Also, try not to let any white pieces go to the furnace. The docs hint that they don't hurt to go down, but they get in the way, and if they go up, it really hurts your score.
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WhoIsYou
- Scurviest dog in the sea (Could ye spare an orange?)
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tommy

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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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atteSmythe wrote: 
I don't believe that wasted spice does, either.

It did not at the time the distilling puzzle was first released, but it definitely does now.

-Greenwolf
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Capt_Poco



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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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A related question: Does the Excellent that I get so much provide expert or skilled labor?
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RCMasterAA



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Only if you have renowned or higher standing.
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~~~ Liat ~~~
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Gets out and pushes

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Sarterixa



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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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If it doesn't say you provided either expert or skilled labor then you didn't provide either. The cutoff point for expert labor is actually somewhere in the middle of an "excellent" rating so it's a bit difficult to say whether you're doing an expert job or just a skilled job.

As for getting incredibles, like everybody said. Get crystal clear ^3 or better in everything that you throw into the mix. Don't send up burnt pieces and make sure you have 3-4 spices in the mix as well. Spice is necessary now to get incredibles since the curve is so high; I've gone with a cc^7 and cc^5 to do a puzzle with no spices and I got an excellent :(
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Sart
Senior Officer of Black Death
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sarterixa at Dec 17, 2003 8:18:14 AM]
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atteSmythe

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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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tommy wrote: 
atteSmythe wrote: 
I don't believe that wasted spice does, either.

It did not at the time the distilling puzzle was first released, but it definitely does now.

Huh, interesting. Well, in that case, I'm glad I haven't been playing as much lately...

atteSmythe,
who got used to wasting spice making bigger combos
----------------------------------------
 
Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

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Lallaria



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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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I've figured it out.

You need at least one CC^4, 2 CC^3, and a CC^2 to get an Incredible. Didn't really pay attention too much to the wasted spice, though I generally try not to waste them.

In any case, it's getting much harder to pull off Incredibles now... just beacause so many people figured out the trick to it...
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Lallaria
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Rastigi



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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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Lallaria wrote: 
I've figured it out.

You need at least one CC^4, 2 CC^3, and a CC^2 to get an Incredible. Didn't really pay attention too much to the wasted spice, though I generally try not to waste them.

In any case, it's getting much harder to pull off Incredibles now... just beacause so many people figured out the trick to it...


I got Incredible wit' 3 CC^3 and 3 solo CC's. Wasted spice does na matter. If it matters at all, its na eno' ta worry about.
----------------------------------------
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[Dec 17, 2003 3:45:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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A related question: Does the Excellent that I get so much provide expert or skilled labor?


It depends if it's direct labour or not. I've never had an excellent not provide expert labour when there's been expert labour available to be used whilst directly puzzling. If you're just doing a practice session, then your overall rating in distilling determines what type of labour your offline hours may be used for. You can check the employment button to see the cutoffs, under the 'skills' tab, I think.

As for incredibles... stop learning the puzzle! I need to be able to get up to legendary at some point! ;)
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
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Silverstar

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I usually get incredibles... I do it by sending up lots of spice, and CC^4's through CC^6's (I haven't made better than a six yet, but I will... I will)

Sending up burnt pieces or less than crystal clear columns toasts your score, but that doesn't mean you'll automatically not get an incredible. When I send up a CC^6, I usually send up a partial row with black pieces afterwards - my attempt at a CC^7 ;-) I still get incredibles, usually. Doing more than one or two of these will lower your score, or doing these with lower CC combinations.

I almost never burn pieces anymore, and very rarely send up incomplete rows except after CC^6s (or sometimes CC^5s). I do waste spice a bit, and go for the larger CC combos instead, but I'll never waste a column with two or more spice in it.

I like this puzzle. It's the only puzzle I can make ultimate in (although, I think I may make ultimate gunner over time)

One thing that has helped my score is mastering piece movement... I was legendary before I even realized you could move a black piece! The problem for me is I read the puzzle as gold (good) and brown (bad) pieces in a neutral playfield (which is wrong) - but due to this, it never really occured to me I could move a black piece - I was only moving gold/brown pieces into empty spaces. The empty spaces themselves couldn't be moved. I still see the puzzle this way, but I know it's wrong, and have learned to play the puzzle anyways. Besides, if I only send up good pieces, I don't have to remember whether black or brown is bad. ;-)
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Silvermoon, First Mate, Silver Dragon Trading Company
Silverstar, Instructor, Puzzle Pirates Academy (retired)
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nindar



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Got it! Reply to this Post
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Got a CC^4 a CC^3 and a couple of CC^2 and ended up with an incredible. Thanks all.
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darkfire908



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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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Well one thing ive noticed of this thread is that its a bit outdated... not sure if anyone even checks this anymore but i thought id put something in anyway.

Nowadays with the increased difficulty i find that i usually need a cc^9 to get an incred. cc^8 will get ya an incred with some spice thrown in.

Also, spice does affect score when burned, but iffin your gettin a high enough cc^* count then i find it doesnt matter either way. I burnt like what ten spice (weird that they appeared in rows next to each other.) but by getting a cc^11 i negated the hit from the spice and still got an incred.

but thats just a tidbit of info i thought i might want to put in to update.
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Just a question... Do the voices in my head bother you?

Also .. did i mention i cant type the word purple?
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Piplicus_BNO

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A CC10 plus a CC2 should get you an incredible regardless of spices.
----------------------------------------
 
What Pip tried to do was something totally unprecedent. He, in some strange way, used Midnight as a test server, without him even knowing. [Crap, it sucks I was not online when he did that :'(... pfft, anyways]


Like a bad penny.
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Pianoman1125

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Wow, 2 years. Major bumpage. I've noted that with the right amount of spice, you can garner an incredible with as little as a CC^7 and CC^5 or some such combination of that. I think as of late some of the ratings for distilling have become booched. I'm currently 9th on the distilling list for the Ruby arch on Midnight so I check that frequently to see where I stand. I know that last week, the top 6 in the arch all had Ultimates and within the span of 2 days they then all read as Legendary. I'm not sure if this means that the curve has gone considerably higher in the other arches or if its a bug but that seems a little off.
----------------------------------------
Muffynz
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TheRack

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Re: Got it! Reply to this Post
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A CC10 plus a CC2 should get you an incredible regardless of spices.


Note the word should. I was mightily peeved the other day when I did this and only got excellent.

But is this really true? People complaining about getting CC^1 and not getting incredible :P

 
Got a CC^4 a CC^3 and a couple of CC^2 and ended up with an incredible. Thanks all.

Just had to quote this because it made me smile.
----------------------------------------
Cephalopod, on poker, wrote: 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: it isn't rigged.

Period. End of story.

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stripey2004

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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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Wow, 2 years. Major bumpage. I've noted that with the right amount of spice, you can garner an incredible with as little as a CC^7 and CC^5 or some such combination of that. I think as of late some of the ratings for distilling have become booched. I'm currently 9th on the distilling list for the Ruby arch on Midnight so I check that frequently to see where I stand. I know that last week, the top 6 in the arch all had Ultimates and within the span of 2 days they then all read as Legendary. I'm not sure if this means that the curve has gone considerably higher in the other arches or if its a bug but that seems a little off.


Ruby is famed for being the arch of much more difficult brigands, puzzle ratings and just being harder in general. If you live in Ruby, often your arch rating is lower than the ocean rating.
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Featherfin
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YPPedia administrator | Island Designer
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by stripey2004 at Oct 10, 2005 9:13:38 AM]
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Shivver



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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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Just yesterday, I got an Incredible after a CC^9 and a CC^2. Yes, that's right, 9 and 2. I was trying to make the CC^3 and saw two adjacent rows each with 2 spices in them. So I moved my whites over to them but made a mistake, causing the row just before the 2 spiced rows to have two whites and two blacks in it. However, the spices seem to have been good enough to score Incredible.
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Pianoman1125

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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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Wow, 2 years. Major bumpage. I've noted that with the right amount of spice, you can garner an incredible with as little as a CC^7 and CC^5 or some such combination of that. I think as of late some of the ratings for distilling have become booched. I'm currently 9th on the distilling list for the Ruby arch on Midnight so I check that frequently to see where I stand. I know that last week, the top 6 in the arch all had Ultimates and within the span of 2 days they then all read as Legendary. I'm not sure if this means that the curve has gone considerably higher in the other arches or if its a bug but that seems a little off.


Ruby is famed for being the arch of much more difficult brigands, puzzle ratings and just being harder in general. If you live in Ruby, often your arch rating is lower than the ocean rating.


I'm not disputing that fact. I've been in Ruby since I joined the game and I know well how hard everything is there. What I find a little hard to swallow is

A: That 6 people with Ultimates in the span of two days all drop to Legendary (arch rating).

and

B: That in the entire arch not a single person has an Ultimate in distilling.

I just find that extremely strange. I've noticed these sudden drops and jumps in other lists recently too. Could be a bug or just my overactive imagination.
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[Oct 10, 2005 10:36:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Pianoman1125    Your average cupcake is just not as tasty. [Link]  Go to top 
Vurogj

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I had the same problem when three o' the top ten distillers on the ocean weren't ultimate in their home arch (Coral). Shuranthae explained it to me in a way that vaguely made sense, maybe he'll pop into this thread and explain it to everyone.
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Older, crankier,
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[Oct 10, 2005 10:46:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    vurogj    vurojg [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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*cries* I swear this is the one that thing I've had to explain more than anything else. Okay, ratings can work in one of three ways.

1. Unrelative Finite
Test scores are generally worked this way, i.e. scores of 90% and above is an A, 80-89% B, 70-79% C, and so on.

2. Pure Relative Percentages
In this scenario, the top 10% is an A, top 11-20% a B, 21-30% a C, and so on. The difference between this and the former is that what your score means depends on everyone else. For example, if one hundred people take a test that's scored from 0-100, if yours is the highest score (or one of the ten highest), it doesn't matter if you score 100 or 50 so long as you're in that top ten you'll get an A. Everyone seems to think our rating system works like this, but it doesn't.

3. Relative Mean
This one's a bit trickier to explain without getting too mathematical but I believe it's how this game works. Let's take ten players with scores: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. The average of these ten scores is 5.5. Let's now say that in order to have an Ultimate you need a score of three times the average, which in this case would be 16.5. Of our sample of ten, the highest score is 10 and thus there aren't any Ultimates.

Pretend that was Oceanwide. Now let's look at two archs: Emerald has scores of 1 2 2 1 3 2 3 1 2 8 and Ruby has scores of 9 7 8 7 6 10 9 8 5 8. Emerald's average is 2.5 and Ruby's average is 7.7. Again assuming one needs three times the average to achieve Ultimate Standing, that would be 7.5 for Emerald (with one Ultimate) and 23.1 for Ruby (no Ultimates).

Things to note: The game probably doesn't run scores from 0-10, I'm thinking 1-3000 may be a closer guess but that is merely a guess. Greenies and other starting characters probably have scores of 100-300 so they are a huge hit on an Arch's average. There are many times more players with lower scores than players with higher scores, thus the average tends to be below where the "middle" point of the score range would be and, thus again, allowing for Ultimates.

Additionally, with the way "high level" pillagers have been leaning toward large ships instead of Sloops (*sneers*) it really shouldn't be any surprise that so many people have high scores thus not allowing anyone to get an Ocean wide Ult SB.
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DallasM

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Ar har! I love distilling! It has been changed the requirements. It is a CC^9 and a CC^3 or better.

I don't know really the cut off but i have gotten so many CC^12's i don't know. I have made a tutorial just of pics. But, it realy doesnt help
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Senior Officer and First Mate of the crew skeletons in your closet
-Volsfootball on all oceans
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by DallasM at Oct 10, 2005 12:20:37 PM]
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Pianoman1125

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Ar har! I love distilling! It has been changed the requirements. It is a CC^9 and a CC^3 or better.

I don't know really the cut off but i have gotten so many CC^12's i don't know. I have made a tutorial just of pics. But, it realy doesnt help



First of all, thank you Shuranthae for that detailed explanation. That does make more sense and explains the problem I had noted.

In regards to the quote, I have had an incredible with a CC^7 and a CC^5 and other such variations. There's not a specific number of CC^s you get in a row and the game says, "Oh, CC^9, that's an incredible." It also has to factor in wasted spice and burnt pieces.

You could have a CC^9 and a CC^3 and still end up with an excellent if you wasted an exorbitent amount of spice.
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Muffynz
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[Oct 10, 2005 12:27:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Pianoman1125    Your average cupcake is just not as tasty. [Link]  Go to top 
Heygabe

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There should be distillery explosions that make injuries.
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--Watching the Mad Professor from a distance
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drc500free

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Let's now say that in order to have an Ultimate you need a score of three times the average, which in this case would be 16.5. Of our sample of ten, the highest score is 10 and thus there aren't any Ultimates.

I have a vague theory that it's based on z-score, so something like:
< -3 = Able
-3 to -2 = Distinguished
-2 to -1 = Respected
-1 to 0 = Master
0 to 1 = Renowned
1 to 2 = Grand Master
2 to 3 = Legendary
3+ = Ultimate

But that's mainly because I want things to be mathematically neat. The whole thing gets ugly due to the fact that people start at able, rather than between master and renowned, so the distribution is far from normal. Mainly I get that idea from the fact that there are 8 categories, and the ultimates appear to be roughly .5% of the population.
----------------------------------------
-Darvid
sundancer wrote: 
will you please explain to me one more time why it would not be acceptable to blockade us?
Squid wrote: 
Because I shouldn't have to go through all that effort.

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meow123_456

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Why care about incredibles when excellents still give you expert labor
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Demonyaj

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Because people want to be the best- they don't strive to produce expert labor, they strive to get on that Ultimate list.

WIth distilling, I strive to avoid it- my usual run is 4 CC^3's. =)
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Shivver



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Let's now say that in order to have an Ultimate you need a score of three times the average, which in this case would be 16.5. Of our sample of ten, the highest score is 10 and thus there aren't any Ultimates.

I have a vague theory that it's based on z-score, so something like:
< -3 = Able
-3 to -2 = Distinguished
-2 to -1 = Respected
-1 to 0 = Master
0 to 1 = Renowned
1 to 2 = Grand Master
2 to 3 = Legendary
3+ = Ultimate

But that's mainly because I want things to be mathematically neat. The whole thing gets ugly due to the fact that people start at able, rather than between master and renowned, so the distribution is far from normal. Mainly I get that idea from the fact that there are 8 categories, and the ultimates appear to be roughly .5% of the population.



I agree with you, Darvid. This is also my theory, and I mentioned it in the LAST thread asking how Ultimates come about. :) And, Shur LAST time said why he thought this wasn't the way it worked, but I have to admit I did not understand why.

The reason why I do not believe that Ultimates are scores of n times the average is that this would require the Ringers to deliberately design the score ranges to work out so that the highest scores are about n times what *they* think the average will be. For example, taking Shur's example, if the realistic absolute maximum score of Distilling is 10, then the Ringers are expecting the average score to be 3, if they want anyone to be Ultimate. And, as the Distilling puzzle gets older and people simply get better at it, the average creeps up, causing the Ringers to continually adjust the n (or the scoring) until an acceptable level of Ultimates is reached, every couple of months. This seems absurd to me.

Whereas, if the Ultimates are based on z-score (or standard deviation, or however you want to look at it -- basically, off this type of statistical model), the elimination of Ultimates from a population can easily be explained by a shifting in the population. For example, Ruby is known to have a population made up of mostly greenies and experts, with little middle ground, causing a distribution spiked at both ends with a large standard deviation. This pushes the cutoff for Ultimate above the top scores, and the best people have Legendary. Emerald, on the other hand, has a more normal population, so the standard deviation is small and the Ultimate cutoff is low enough to allows some to exist.

And, of course, what Darvid pointed out about there being the correct number of categories. :)

Edit: Stupid spelling errors.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Shivver at Oct 10, 2005 2:11:56 PM]
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Shuranthae

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Re: Incredible in Distilling puzzle? Reply to this Post
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Yeah, I really didn't want to get too mathematical because I'm confusing enough with simple math. Also it's worth noting that simply because you start as Able doesn't mean your score can't get lower than where you start at. I've noticed that floaters (alts used to float ships and thus have many many losses) seem to actually be worse than starting Ables in a number of ways, but I could just be crazy.

Anyway, I don't think the numbers work out so neatly anyway. For example, you're saying that it's just as hard to go from Leg to Ult as it is from GM to Leg and I don't think it to be the case. I recall Nemo saying that in order to score an Incredible you have to score within the top 1% of the score range for that Ocean.
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