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genlang

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Joined: Sep 26, 2003
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Employment and you, a salary warning. Reply to this Post
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I don't believe anyone has explicitly said this before, so before the flood of new players arrives I thought I'd put out little public service announcement in place.

Shops want your labor, no doubt about it. It's in their best interests to have a pool of workers to draw on to chew through their work queues, and there's a come-on that I have observed in the past (and fell prey to once, myself): Some shop owners will post an incredible-looking labor rate to draw in the unknowledgable and unobservant pirate, while the real labor they use is paid at a much lower rate.

Before getting excited over seeing a job offering 20, 50, 100+ PoE/hour for labor, take a good long look at what grades of labor the shop is actually going to be using. You do this by looking at what the shop sells and what grade of labor goes into each product. For example, a shop offering 100 PoE/hour for basic labor isn't losing a thing if all they use is expert labor.

Experts, be even more wary: Once you've attained the ability to contribute that ultimate level of workmanship, make sure that the shop you have chosen uses your labor. A shop offering 100/hour that has very few expert hours needed isn't as good a proposition as the shop that offers 50/hour but sells a large number of expert-crafted items.

(This PSA will be updated as time goes by and releases/new information render part or all of this PSA invalid)
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Arabella @ Azure, Midnight, Ice, Cobalt, & Viridian
[Nov 29, 2003 3:00:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
peptic



Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Posts: 51
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tricky wages Reply to this Post
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Ive noticed this --but its hard to get all what labour they use info---
my rule of thumb is --
If a job has paid little or no wages in a week-find new job....
Theres also a double wammy where if there not payin or using your hours u have more foraging hours plus employment status.
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Chicco
Proud owner of the Cod-eyed Kraken
One eye lo0king at ya.
The other looking for ye
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by peptic at Nov 30, 2003 11:03:34 PM]
[Nov 30, 2003 11:03:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Joined: Dec 10, 2002
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Re: Employment and you, a salary warning. Reply to this Post
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A better idea would be to check with the manager to see if they're over-employed, or if it's just coincidence that your labor didn't get used.

The way to check what labor gets used is by checking the "order products" pane in the shoppe . . . when Fine Rum only requires 1/3 of its labor to be expert, you know there'll be in less demand than somewhere else that requires a higher percentage of Expert work to get its better products made.
[Nov 30, 2003 11:13:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
NinjaGuy

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Joined: Aug 4, 2003
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Re: Employment and you, a salary warning. Reply to this Post
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While it is pretty low, seeing

Unskilled Labor: 100
Basic Labor: 1
Skilled Labor: 100
Expert Labor: 1

in a shop is occasionally good for a chuckle though. Still, it is very dirty.
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Ninjaguy - Captain of the Mad Mutineers, Prince of the Midnight Armada
[Dec 2, 2003 5:45:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.midnightarmada.com    Istealpants21    Istealpants21 [Link]  Go to top 
ctate



Joined: Sep 6, 2003
Posts: 47
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Re: Employment and you, a salary warning. Reply to this Post
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genlang wrote: 
Before getting excited over seeing a job offering 20, 50, 100+ PoE/hour for labor, take a good long look at what grades of labor the shop is actually going to be using. You do this by looking at what the shop sells and what grade of labor goes into each product. For example, a shop offering 100 PoE/hour for basic labor isn't losing a thing if all they use is expert labor.


This is another thing I think is booched in the current setup. Pay should be based on the employee's skill, full stop -- not based on what items they produced. An expert employee should be paid at the expert rate, even if they're just cranking out orders for swill.

In the real world, this is how it works. When you hire someone skilled, you pay them their skilled-labor rate even if you set them to doing scut-work. If you are carrying a bunch of people overqualified for the work you are having them do, that's your fault as the manager. You should fire them and get cheaper employees... and accept that you won't be able to produce expert goods.
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Pelikan, Gunner of the Adventurer's League
Flying the colours of the Plundered Hearts
[Dec 2, 2003 6:12:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Claudia



Joined: Sep 15, 2003
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Re: Employment and you, a salary warning. Reply to this Post
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I dunno, I think of shop labor as more like piecework than like a salaried job.
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Utena of Revolutionary Crew Utena
[Dec 2, 2003 6:27:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ctate



Joined: Sep 6, 2003
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Re: Employment and you, a salary warning. Reply to this Post
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Claudia wrote: 
I dunno, I think of shop labor as more like piecework than like a salaried job.


Piecework jobs in real life are day-labor; you re-hire whoever's available on every day. And you only get basic labor that way. Expert jobs like welding (or perhaps high-end swordsmithy?) pay well, are long-term commitments, and the practioners thereof get mighty snarky if they're asked to do scut-work.

It's been suggested that basic labor might be provided only by people who are not sufficiently skilled to provide higher levels of labor; this is akin to a welder refusing to spend his days hauling gravel. I didn't get a clear sense of the objections to this approach; I do recall that one possible benefit that was raised is that it would encourage employment of newbies.
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Pelikan, Gunner of the Adventurer's League
Flying the colours of the Plundered Hearts
[Dec 2, 2003 7:15:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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