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Bia
OceanMaster
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Grand Crafting Puzzle Project Discussion Reply to this Post
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Announcement.

Please keep discussion in this thread and on topic.
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[Aug 18, 2006 3:34:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
blue_jacket

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Sounds exciting!
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-Yaten
YPPedia administrator. Mostly retired.

[Aug 18, 2006 3:36:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    YatenPirate [Link]  Go to top 
weejonnyb

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<3
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Zyxt-sux.
[Aug 18, 2006 3:36:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
stefsorceror

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Awesome!

Now, please make a weaving puzzle. :)
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Tibiaking. Member of TTB, SN. Too cool to have a quote in my signature.

Disclaimer: None of my posts are ment to be offensive. Any tarting about the offensiveness of my posts will be ingored.
[Aug 18, 2006 3:42:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdnx429

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Yay, sounds good! However, I can't help but be cynical. It almost seems as if OOO is saying - if you want a new crafting puzzle make it yourselves.

Still, I wish I had more Java experience to help out more but I'm really looking forward to contributing however I can. :P

Edit:

In hindsight, I should've probably used the word skeptical as opposed to cynical. Regardless, I've started a new YPPedia Page and I'm posting the link here for more visibility:

http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Grand_Crafting_Puzzle_Project
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Josephdaniel on Midnight.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by jdnx429 at Aug 18, 2006 6:35:50 PM]
[Aug 18, 2006 3:43:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DreadedChris



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Hurrah! Actually, I already have a well-formed idea for a smithing puzzle for the ironmongers (yah, yah, I know, another one... some of the proposals have been pretty painful... I hope mine isn't.)
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~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~
[Aug 18, 2006 3:45:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
runnings_fun



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Yay, sounds good! However, I can't help but be cynical. It almost seems as if OOO is saying - if you want a new crafting puzzle make it yourselves.

Agreed. Don't we pay them to do stuff like this?
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A Ptolmaic Overlord Production

 
Sadly, I believe Ptolemy is correct.

[Aug 18, 2006 3:48:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    drfeetseconds [Link]  Go to top 
DreadedChris



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Yay, sounds good! However, I can't help but be cynical. It almost seems as if OOO is saying - if you want a new crafting puzzle make it yourselves.

Agreed. Don't we pay them to do stuff like this?


We pay them to maintain the servers, hunt down the cheaters and the scammers, assist with and/or run events, and integrate the puzzle games into a (somewhat) coherent world.

And anyone will be able to play with the Game Gardens mock-up. As I understand Game Gardens, if it's there, it's by definition free to play and play with the source. I'd be a bit put out if they made an exception here considering that the stuff is coming from the player base.
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~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~
[Aug 18, 2006 3:58:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
IantheKorean

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Maybe because of all the tarting involved with rumble and barbarians they thought it'd be a good idea to let the community create the next puzzle?
[Aug 18, 2006 3:59:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Talisker

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This does sound like a neat idea.
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Leif
The Forums
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I can't respond because I do not understand what the hell you are talking about. Sorry.

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[Aug 18, 2006 4:03:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nkirbit

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Yay.. finally another puzzle.

<3
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Endless
[Aug 18, 2006 4:04:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
drc500free

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This is neat.

I just kind of wish this was for the crafting puzzle after next. This sort of implies there hasn't been any work on crafting puzzles since shipwrighting, which was what... a year and a half ago?

EDIT: Good post below. Crafting puzzles are definitely hard to design and only cater to a niche audience. I'm just wondering what the big update on the horizon is. Rumble took some work. Pets took no work. Brigand Kings might have taken work, but a battle with a different background that gives you a trinket isn't exactly a huge dev time sink.

So either things have switched over to a high income / low development expense mode to be more profitable, or a lot of dev time has been going to something that we don't really know about yet.
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-Darvid
sundancer wrote: 
will you please explain to me one more time why it would not be acceptable to blockade us?
Squid wrote: 
Because I shouldn't have to go through all that effort.

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by drc500free at Aug 18, 2006 4:23:36 PM]
[Aug 18, 2006 4:13:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Oceanus
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I completely understand the "make it yourselves" concern. I hope I can give a bit of background that will make it easier to see the big picture.

First, I've seen the discussions behind this idea first hand. Let me stress that this activity is not vindictive. It's an attempt to solve a problem that hasn't had an easy answer.

The truth is that crafting puzzles are not the top priority. Everyone says that they want them (I do, too!), but when you look at the statistics of which puzzles and activities in the game get the most play time, crafting puzzles come up extremely short. So, you have this discussion:

"But we want them!"
"But you don't play them."
"Yes, but... we still want them!"

I've had this very discussion. Sure, there's more to it than that - it's even possible that a full ensemble of crafting puzzles would actually boost the number of people playing them, but that's not what our behavior shows. So, crafting puzzles are on the list, but they're not at the top.

Here's why this is exciting: instead of waiting, we've been given an amazing opportunity to get exactly what we want right now. We've been given special permission to hold this experimental event. This is our chance to get the crafting puzzles AND let the developers keep developing the big surprises.

Keep in mind, we don't have to do this. If this idea falls flat on its face, at least we tried an interesting experiment. The crafting puzzles will get done eventually, and none of us will have lost anything.

But, if it does work (and I believe it can) we all win. We get to have our cake and eat it, too. Now, this is Game Design - how do you think we can make this work?

(edits for spelling/grammar)
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wow, I always wanted to talk to an OM without being in trouble

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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Oceanus at Aug 18, 2006 4:24:32 PM]
[Aug 18, 2006 4:19:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nahah



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Better ideas allways come from multiple people than from one single peron.

This will work well.
[Aug 18, 2006 4:22:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Benzene265

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What if someone came up with an idea for a crafting puzzle but can barely get a computer to say "Hello World" let alone write a game?

Java is an island in Indonesia, right?
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A Ghyslaine and a Rhodin for every Ocean, but mostly on Viridian.
Make the natural choice for our oceans: Google Rhodin Blonde!
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IantheKorean

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What if someone came up with an idea for a crafting puzzle but can barely get a computer to say "Hello World" let alone write a game?

Java is an island in Indonesia, right?


That would be the purpose of having a large group of people in the community working on this. =P The brains who came up with the idea doesn't necessarily have to be writing the code.
[Aug 18, 2006 4:29:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DreadedChris



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"But we want them!"
"But you don't play them."
"Yes, but... we still want them!"

Some of us play them... (although many people drastically reduce their puzzling once they can get consistent incredibles.)

More important, the economy works better with puzzles than without. Really it does. People come to the stall to do puzzles. They see the help wanted sign. They might take a job.... without a puzzle, there's no reason for anyone to ever enter your stall, they can shop -all- the stalls from the lobby. So you press hearties and crew into it, or on doubloon oceans create an army of labor alts to do it for you.

Labor alts on doubloon oceans are a whole 'nother kind of broken that puzzles help (yah you -can- create an army of labor alts and play 20 puzzles every weekend to keep them fresh... but you're more likely to actually hire workers when there's a puzzle involved.)

(* yes, pre-builts would be a reason to enter your stall if anyone other than tailors had selling racks. Hint-hint.)

Anyway, I heartily approve of the experiment. Something needed to be done. :o
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~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~
[Aug 18, 2006 4:29:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lethal01

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What if someone came up with an idea for a crafting puzzle but can barely get a computer to say "Hello World" let alone write a game?
Then they put their idea forth in the Design phase, and if it's any good, there will be no problem finding a talented enough programmer to team up with.
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Gnarr
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Lethal01 at Aug 18, 2006 4:30:31 PM]
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jdnx429

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So when does Phase 1 Start?
 

PHASE 1 - Organization

Getting Started - The YPPedia will be used for hosting the entries while the game forums will be used for discussing the events. We need players to:
- design the template for submissions
- volunteer to help organize and manage entries
- help decide on the minimum entry requirements


I'd be willing to help out on the YPPedia but I'm still a newbie on that. I suppose a new page will be needed.

I have a pretty good idea for an Ironmonger puzzle...I know Photoshop quite well so I could illustrate it and show how it works.

I think it'd be awesome if we had great ideas for multiple puzzles so that we could see maybe two crafting puzzles implemented.
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Josephdaniel on Midnight.
[Aug 18, 2006 4:34:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Swordblade01

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Yay! I can't wait for another crafting puzzle! so far all of them are fun and i think this one will be fun too. :) When i said all of the crafting puzzles were fun i meant all of them exept distilling
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Swordblade on Cobalt

 
"Think of it like a Twinkie. If you bite into the yellow part of a Twinkie and there is no white cream filling, it SUCKS!" -Ryan Higa


Dispite my forum join date, I joined aug 25 05
[Aug 18, 2006 4:36:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.freewebs.com/demonsatdusk [Link]  Go to top 
Lizzie

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I'd like to volunteer to assist with the organisation side of it, on the wiki. (Just thought I should let you know!)
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Ravine
Black Death, Midnight

[Aug 18, 2006 4:47:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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Wonderful idea! If it works the way I expect it to, not only will it get more ideas generated and fleshed out, but the players will help narrow down the good ones before the GameGardens prototypes are started (?) and there will be more games available on GameGardens (and more people *playing* there too!).

/e has an idea himself fer a crafting puzzle. ;-)

now, if I can just manage to squeeze enough time out of my fall semester schedule for this....
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by tcarr at Aug 18, 2006 5:05:59 PM]
[Aug 18, 2006 5:04:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
B_licker



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The truth is that crafting puzzles are not the top priority. Everyone says that they want them (I do, too!), but when you look at the statistics of which puzzles and activities in the game get the most play time, crafting puzzles come up extremely short. So, you have this discussion:

"But we want them!"
"But you don't play them."
"Yes, but... we still want them!"

I've had this very discussion. Sure, there's more to it than that - it's even possible that a full ensemble of crafting puzzles would actually boost the number of people playing them, but that's not what our behavior shows. So, crafting puzzles are on the list, but they're not at the top.

The reason that crafting puzzles aren't popular has nothing to do with the puzzles themselves, it's how they're used. For the vast majority of people, they don't serve any purpose other than to keep their labor up to date, which means they might play a puzzle once a week. Puzzling more than that isn't required to keep a shop running nor does it improve a shop's performance, unlike duty puzzles. And they're not a huge money maker like the carousing puzzles either. If you really wanted to increase the popularity of crafting puzzles, you should work on making them more integral to the performance of a shop. A higher pay rate for online vs offline labor and overtime would be a start. Some sort of social aspect would be another step in the right direction.

Personally, I love the crafting puzzles. I know there's many other people who do too, judging from the crafting bakeoffs. I used to distill for hours for no pay because I found it relaxing. But there's only so much time I can spend on YPP. Either I spend it on a puzzle I love, playing by myself for almost no pay, or I can spend it on puzzle I like somewhat less, but with other people and for 50X more poe.
[Aug 18, 2006 5:12:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
daleenmarine

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Is it too early to vote for Parfait?
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HuskerMike wrote: 
It feels like you're on a jihad against me.

Antix wrote: 
And if he turns out to be an innocent lets not remember that fact at all.

[Aug 18, 2006 5:36:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
IceColdFire

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Is it too early to vote for Parfait?

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-Twiggy
 
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Jiiggsaw says, "i think a war fridge"

[Aug 18, 2006 5:45:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jacada

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This will be good, i vote for a iron mongers puzzle tis gurd.
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Go away phool
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that was very rud of you to post a issues like that next time you say eny thing bad agian i am callng the seamasters on you

Active once again!
[Aug 18, 2006 5:48:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
juventus1

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Seems more and more like our developers are just market-trend watchers, they figure out how to net the most money...why have them come up with the ideas anymore, when we can just magick up prizes for the talented communtiy whose creativity we effectively take for a few pixels.

To the creators of puzzles as good as Parfait: Have you ever considered going elsewhere, maybe somewhere where you'll get more than a few worthless familiars/pets/pieces of eight? I'm sure there are more companies out there producing puzzle games. Why not do part time development for them?
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Desmagicus

"Be the change you want to see in the world."
-Mahatmas Gandhi
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Irelay

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Is it too early to vote for Parfait?



LKlove++
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Irelay l Otherwhen l Water Sleeps
Mightnight Ocean pirate since August '04
[Aug 18, 2006 5:59:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdnx429

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Alright, I started a page in the YPPedia.

It's located here

This is just a start and it's very rough, but I hope this will focus the discussion on the next steps that we need to do to get a new Crafting Puzzle!

Edit:

Just to make it more obvious:

http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Grand_Crafting_Puzzle_Project
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Josephdaniel on Midnight.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by jdnx429 at Aug 18, 2006 6:33:56 PM]
[Aug 18, 2006 6:06:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rixation

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Is it too early to vote for Parfait?

Just want to throw in a QFT....x4? That, and the weaving puzzle that's been on GameGardens for 6 months+. Both are already greatly debugged and have been thoroughly tested...my vote goes to them.
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Epimetheus
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