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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Game Design » Thread: Jobber Feedback/Rating Log. |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 18 |
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bakesson
Joined: Mar 18, 2004 Posts: 30 Status: Offline |
This is an idea I had and told to Hermes a couple of weeks ago, which he said he would pass on, but i thought i'd post it here to see what the other players think. My idea is that the officer(s) on a pillage give Jobber Feedback/Rating to those pirates they job. That way, when looking for jobbers, officers can look at their feedback/rating log to see whether they are a good hire or not. It could work a bit like the eBay feedback, with a 5 or 10 star rating, and an optional comment. So if they are an excellent jobber, or a great gunner/sailer/carper/bilger etc, you can give them a 8/9/10 out of 10, and in the comment write "great xxx" or "pleasure to have aboard" or whatever expresses how you thought the jobber was. If they get the job done, but you don't really notice one way or the other if they are outstanding or horrible, then you rate them somewhere 4-7, and only leave a comment if ye want to. Then, if they are a horrible, lazy, good for nothing, who constantly asks "can i gunz" or insists on lazing or camping out in the crow's nest, then you can do us all a favour and let us know for next time, by rating them 0-3, and commenting: "refused to work" "only wanted to gun, whined constantly" "was rude to officers" or whatever misdemeanors the pirate committed. That way, we have an idea about who is a good jobber or not, and maybe an average star rating could appear as pirates apply for jobs - for example "Luthien (8) has applied for your job posting." at a glance, it should be obvious who is really bad or not, and if unsure you can click on the (8) for a feedback log. The problem with this is, for those officers who decide to leave incorrect/unfair feedback, some great jobbers could be stuck with a bad rating. There could be some sort of system of withdrawing feedback, but i'm not sure how it could work without too much interference on the part of an OM. Tell me what ye think. ---------------------------------------- Beren & Luthien on Midnight |
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starrarose
Joined: Aug 23, 2004 Posts: 6083 Status: Offline |
A few questions. 1. When would you give the rating? 2. How? 3. How would you stop people gaming it by jobing into an alt crew and giving themselves brilliant ratings? Other than the frigate nightmare I'm visualising, and those few points, not bad. ---------------------------------------- Phoenix - Black Plague to the core, Flag may change randomly.
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fanta
Joined: May 30, 2004 Posts: 5558 Status: Offline |
Also, if a new player does bad as a jobber at first, until they learn how to be a good one, if they have a bad rating, how are they gonna improve? And what about bad OiCs, they could mess up the rating totally. And what if you are a good jobber, but run into someone who for some odd reason hates you and thinks it fun to give you a bad rating? ---------------------------------------- Pleun, First Mate of Monkey Militia, TO in Carpe Noctem, Midnight ocean, owner of the Dainty Dolphin and the Mystical Dragon. Avatar made from artwork by Kagaya |
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tcarr
Joined: Jun 7, 2004 Posts: 4294 Status: Offline |
Another major problem here is that bnavvers and COs don't see duty reports. Most of the pillages I run myself (instead of puzzling - I *like* to puzzle as much as I like to bnav!) are on brigs. Unless somebody else on the ship takes the time to mention jobbers who get exc or inc (or poor, learning, booched) I can't tell if JoePirate who is one of two or three bilgers is just sitting there with puzzle paused the whole time. Usually in melee I don't get knocked out early, and so I'm too busy fighting meself, and saying "break the 4!" or "solos to Unshaven Martha!" to make notes of jobbers who get killed early due to single vertical lines as opposed to the ones that get killed early because there were 5 brigands on them from the start. It's a great idea in principle, but I would resent the added paperwork of making ratings on jobbers. I'd rather just have fun running the pillage. I have to do more than enough grading in my RL job..... A jobber has to be *really* bad for me to remember to add him to my flag's list of "don't job these people" rather than just muting him then planking him. ---------------------------------------- LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight |
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bakesson
Joined: Mar 18, 2004 Posts: 30 Status: Offline |
I thought the best time to give the rating would be at the same time as booty divide - that way only one rating is given per pillage, and the person in control of the pillie does so. Say, each pirate has a default rating of 5, which the officer can increase or decrease. How simple/complex would it be to add something like this to the booty divide panel, say to the right of the buttons which toggle up/down the booty share for each pirate?
I know there is a way to automatically detect whether 2 pirates/accounts are from the same ?ISP? location - when i used to play at Games.com, there was a warning that came up when both players were from the same location, hence they could be colluding/the same person. Maybe they could use something like that here, or simply treat it as any other form of cheating - in that you will be banned for it exactly as if you use an alt to increase your swordfighting rank by fighting and deliberately causing said alt to lose. Another way to avoid the frigate nightmare is by creating an option of giving feedback or not, say with a box to tick/untick at the top of the booty panel. That way with a large pillage, if the officer doesn't want to or can't be bothered leaving feedback, they can opt not to, rather than leaving everyone at the default level which will mess up the correctness of really good/bad rating averages.
Bad ratings should only really be given if the new player is really not trying or wanting to work. The aim of this whole system is to highlight those people who do those things we really don't want in a jobber: - consistenly ask to gun/nav - refuse to work or insist on sitting in the crow's nests - spam repeatedly - are rude - moan and complain repeatedly about booty divide even after being told when and where it will occur.... etc Therefore any new player that actually tries to work, or shows an effort in learning what not to do should be obvious to the OiC. If not, then they can either job more to improve their rating, or try to get it withdrawn as those in the following situation:
These two are the reason for having something like withdrawing feedback, given evidence to the contrary. By having it done at booty divide, as i said earlier, hopefully this means the person in control of the pillage will do it, which is [again hopefully] a fairly decent person. Also, the rating should be based mostly on average, not one or two outliers. The only problem is figuring out a way to have feedback withdrawn, hopefully without the need for OM involvement. ---------------------------------------- Beren & Luthien on Midnight |
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bakesson
Joined: Mar 18, 2004 Posts: 30 Status: Offline |
Exactly - the whole point of this is not really in getting the good rankings, because let's face it, most of us have our off days. Rather i would like to see a way for those *really* bad annoying jobbers, who waste our time, to be highlighted. That way, not only can we see who is not a good hire, but hopefully they are motivated to be a better jobber, and not such a pain in the a**. This is a much easier way of letting everyone know who is on the "don't job these people" list than word of mouth or forums - having it right there in game when they apply for the job. ---------------------------------------- Beren & Luthien on Midnight |
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RaggedAndy
Joined: Nov 24, 2005 Posts: 140 Status: Offline |
If you are primarily concerned about catching jobbers who get themselves planked &/or leave in battle, may I suggest using QuarterMaster instead? It can be configured to automatically add deserters and plankees to its blacklist, and will alert you when a blacklisted pirate boards your ship. Come to think of it, it can also maintain a goldlist (good people), and will alert you when those board as well. And the nice thing is that you can run it when you go along on other people's pillages, and have it record who THEY plank and who deserts them. -- RaggedAndy Senior Officer & Diplomat of The Soul Collectors on the Viridian Ocean ---------------------------------------- RaggedAndy, Senior Officer of Trouble King of Soul Mates on the Viridian Ocean http://www.zarquon.net/~raggedandy/ |
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SilveRansom
Joined: Apr 16, 2006 Posts: 3827 Status: Offline |
Also, there are a plenty of people hiring jobbers who don't even look at the "pirate info" before hiring. This is a good idea, but I'm not sure that it would be all that useful, since it's one more thing to look at when nothing is being looked at in the first place. Maybe if there were a visual indicator of the feedback rating by a jobber's application or something... but then, that might be too busy. I sure would appreciate it, though. Even if it were an indicator of the pirate's standings and greenie/non-greenie status instead of (potentially abused) user feedback, that might help when I'm looking for jobbers. It sure would be better than another popup box stating that "randompirate" has applied to your posting. And, since I haven't chimed in on it yet, can we please get the ability to mute those jobber tells when we're not the OiC? ---------------------------------------- Silveransom sells art like this or this |
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Grayside
Joined: Aug 17, 2005 Posts: 2080 Status: Offline |
If someone has good puzzling skills, they are generally a good jobber. I don't think a ratings system will really catch most of the people with "Navy Stats". There was previous discussion of /w & applications showing icons in the sidebar with the highest rated piracy skills of pirates, and I also think some kind of perma blacklisting... I'd look it up. Feedback like this seems redundant. ---------------------------------------- Firestone, Captain, Mad Tea Party, Cobalt Gallant, PotD, Midnight |
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Gotagota
Joined: May 1, 2003 Posts: 5791 Status: Offline |
i would vote everyone negative and even throw huge pillages with big payouts specifically to give everyone negative ratings ---------------------------------------- Fronsac, human. Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.. -Antoine de Saint-Exupéry |
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Battleloser
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I just came off an awful pillage where I hired at least a dozen jobbers over a period of 5-6 battles. I gave out three -1s to people who left in battle, and when I ported only two jobbers even got a cut of the booty. It's such a huge pain sometimes to hire jobbers and only have them stay onboard long enough for you to say ahoy before they jump off again, or leave in battle, or refuse to work unless I pay them right then and there. A feedback system would be great, not only would it make life easier for people doing the jobbing, but it would give players who might otherwise be a little rough around the edges to behave better on a pillage. Of course there's always potential for abuse, but this can be countered pretty easily. If it worked on a point or "star" system, but instead of each OIC giving their own rank to a pirate, an overall rank can be applied to each pirate, with the feedback giving officer being able to only +/- X amount of points. |
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Rick9109
 Joined: Sep 19, 2003 Posts: 6479 Status: Offline |
I think it would be a good idea, just because I like to know these sorts of things. I also wish people could fill out "how's my naving???" cards. Things like that. ---------------------------------------- Rome. Ghandi in Tyrant Form. Pirates of the Damned, Crimson Tide. Ronald McDonald, sorry that is what I call him!!! |
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Matthias
Joined: Jul 27, 2003 Posts: 3303 Status: Offline |
I recall Cleaver expressing a distaste for eBay-style ranking systems. In fact, the only ranking evaluation type system I've seen work without being gamed into irrelevance is on this one forum I frequent. Basically, to pass judgement on other people you have to be judged as a good sort yourself, thereby earning points to hand to others, and the moderators have unlimited points. But even there it only works because there's enough variation in behaviour that you can hand out multiple points for the one thing (like making a fancy work of art, for instance). It wouldn't work in binary systems like eBay or 'is this a good jobber or not'. If it were extended to all interactions, it would overcome this difficulty but would run into fresh problems with the cliquey nature of YPP. (Not that I've had much of a problem with cliques, but hey. They exist.) ---------------------------------------- I took my own advice. |
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Rick9109
Joined: Sep 19, 2003 Posts: 6479 Status: Offline |
Hmm you have a point, but I also think we might get ebay speak which is a language similar to greenie speak. L@@K AT MY CARPIN brand new barely used carp skills many shipping options does not accept pay pal or major credit cards only diners club and money order. Thanks happy biddin! ---------------------------------------- Rome. Ghandi in Tyrant Form. Pirates of the Damned, Crimson Tide. Ronald McDonald, sorry that is what I call him!!! |
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Battleloser
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Hehe, funny thing is when I was thinking about this earlier my first thought was a sytem similiar to the slashdot system, but something like that might overly complicate what could be a very simple system. It just has to be implemented the right way. |
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DarkTyger
 Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 183 Status: Offline |
And given the tendancy of a lot of jobbers to rapid-fire off applications to every ship on the list, taking time to look at pirate info means most jobbers will be hired by the time you accept them. :p Anyway, users rating other users has too much potential for abuse. Getting friends to artificially bump your rating or having someone else bump you lower than you deserve out of spite are too common. :p Not to mention those who like to screw with other people any way they can just or kicks. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by DarkTyger at Aug 26, 2006 5:35:17 AM] |
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c_squared01
Joined: Jun 25, 2004 Posts: 1004 Status: Offline |
Boo to this idea. I will get rated poorly by boring people even though I'm a perfectly reasonable jobber. And there are 1,000 other reasons. But they're already mostly listed. ---------------------------------------- Chrisspy |
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Sjoerd2
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Could be a Good idea, only jobbers DO need a way to raise their stats at their own, like working at the navy gives so in some way also good points, or removes bad ones. ---------------------------------------- Flamer forced caproy to walk the plank. Caproy has been invited to job for Transition Caproy has taken the job with Transition. Caproy has come aboard. Metalsjoerd says: What ye did Flamer? Flamer: Caproy kept telling me to job him. |
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