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ponytailguy

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Re: Were we wrong?

Natanj, please stop replying to yourself before someone removes several of your limbs. Edit button's thataway. Thanks.
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
[Jul 14, 2006 8:18:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thews



Joined: Dec 8, 2005
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Re: Were we wrong?

 
 
And last i checked, marathon runners always have their friends come help and give em water every few miles... ...


My mistake, for using a word with multiple meanings. I've edited my post accordingly.


Sorry mate, didnt mean ta get ye distracted about that poit, the rest of my post was what was really important.
[Jul 14, 2006 8:19:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BenjeminR

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Re: Were we wrong?

 
 
 
Alright, now this post I'll keep updating instead of posting more, just to make you feel happy.
 
Go do a search for the S word on the forums. THAT is swearing - no one bats an eyelid. Btw - Welcome to Parley.

Actually, lots of more righteous people do more than bat an eyelid when even the C word is mentioned, and I personally have restricted myself to two exclamatory statements: Drat! Holy!

Also, parley is a short-term truce to disscuss matters peacefully, not a swear-fest.


LOL.....


QFT


why do people keep quoting my posts and swearing.

please yell at them more natan! HELP ME! HELP ME PLEASE
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Legacee
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by BenjeminR at Jul 14, 2006 8:24:21 PM]
[Jul 14, 2006 8:23:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
PogoBeta

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Re: Were we wrong?

 
Natanj, please stop replying to yourself before someone removes several of your limbs. Edit button's thataway. Thanks.


As far as I know, there were either other posts in between there that were later removed by the poster so that he could edit a single long post, or... he just likes postcount. I do think, however, that it's the first one.
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Pogo on Midnight

I used to have an avatar shop
for someone this washed up, you'd think i'd be a little cleaner...
[Jul 14, 2006 8:24:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
natan_j



Joined: Sep 3, 2005
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Re: Were we wrong?

After my friend read this, he replied to it:
"First of all, in hide-and-seek, there is no rule against teams of small groups unless officially decided before the game has started. If there was no reference beforehand, then it should be the host's duty to fulfill his promise."
Also, if you look at my total post count, I obviously don't care about how many posts I've made, and I would gladly allow an admin to delete this topic once the issue has been resolved.

 
please yell at them more natan! HELP ME! HELP ME PLEASE

I would, but I know that there is actually no problem whatsoever, and you are in no need of assistance. Instead, you are trying to poke fun at me, lower my self-esteem, and highten your own. Now, to explain myself for before, I had not known what QFT meant, and interpreted it as "Quit *censored* this". Behaviour such as yours I will only tolerate for so long, and I am almost at the end of my patience with it.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by natan_j at Jul 14, 2006 8:59:19 PM]
[Jul 14, 2006 8:43:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
PogoBeta

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Re: Were we wrong?

 
"First of all, in hide-and-seek, there is no rule against teams of small groups unless officially decided before the game has started. If there was no reference beforehand, then it should be the host's duty to fulfill his promise."



The rules of hide and seek are as follows:

1. Somebody hides
2. Somebody seeks

Additional rules vary by region.
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Pogo on Midnight

I used to have an avatar shop
for someone this washed up, you'd think i'd be a little cleaner...
[Jul 14, 2006 8:55:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tarajayne

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Re: Were we wrong?

Wow.........

You guys posted a lot when I was pillaging.

Anyway fyi, those hiders that saw me again were because I was still looking for the other hiders that had kept on moving. I sent a few people trade requests twice because I was like ooo yay a person...

Whatever anyway. I wasn't coming here to start anything certainly not about swearing or whatever is going on w/ ... yeah ...

Anyway, I didn't "bring this agrument to the forums" I posted in the event thread my problems with how the prizes were awarded. And atually that's what Shortyjack had suggested I do. You can go back and read the screenshot chatlog if you want for that.

Also, if you had to be at the manor at the start, then why do I know a mate that got a foil for a prize when he logged on half way and was like, whatcha guys doin? We said, playing your fav game... Oh snap, ye broke yer own rules.
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Bridalgirl

I get around.
[Jul 14, 2006 8:57:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tarajayne

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Re: Were we wrong?

 

The rules of hide and seek are as follows:

1. Somebody hides
2. Somebody seeks

Additional rules vary by region.


And there ya go, I did that. Prize please.
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Bridalgirl

I get around.
[Jul 14, 2006 8:58:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
natan_j



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Re: Were we wrong?

 
I wasn't coming here to start anything certainly not about swearing or whatever is going on w/ ... yeah ...

You can thank the blatant flamer, Sagacious, for the rapid topic-changes.
I know he may have problems of his own to deal with, but hurting other people to make youself feel better isn't the best way to deal with matters maturely.
[Jul 14, 2006 9:02:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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Re: Were we wrong?

In region 'Puzzle Pirates' - you play by additional rules governed by spirit of the game.
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Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister
Emerald & Obsidian - incognito!
#TeamPurple
[Jul 14, 2006 9:04:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Badbeat

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Re: Were we wrong?

 
 
I wasn't coming here to start anything certainly not about swearing or whatever is going on w/ ... yeah ...

You can thank the blatant flamer, Sagacious, for the rapid topic-changes.
I know he may have problems of his own to deal with, but hurting other people to make youself feel better isn't the best way to deal with matters maturely.


and referring to him as a "flamer" shows how mature you really are. Way to go, you tried to help your cause and had an opening to do a good job and yet you have made yourself look immature.
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Badbeat, Midnight Ocean

Poker and Swordfighting Enthusiast
[Jul 14, 2006 9:04:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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Re: Were we wrong?

 
You can thank the blatant flamer, Sagacious, for the rapid topic-changes.
I know he may have problems of his own to deal with, but hurting other people to make youself feel better isn't the best way to deal with matters maturely.

You clearly take things way too seriously. If anything, it was you who derailed the topic of discussion when you accused me of swearing. HWFO etc.
And, you just keep bringing this all up again. I stopped discussing the derail several replies back...
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Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister
Emerald & Obsidian - incognito!
#TeamPurple
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sagacious at Jul 14, 2006 9:07:07 PM]
[Jul 14, 2006 9:06:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thews



Joined: Dec 8, 2005
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Re: Were we wrong?

To bring back on topic and sum up...

Premesis:
1. Rules didnt say ye had to work alone
2. Sometimes, hide and seek is played with people working together
3. Sometimes, hide and seek is played with people not working together
4. If one wants to win, one must follow the rules
5. In the constest, we are to act like greenies or be greenies
6. Greenies are new to puzzle pirates

Argument:
The rules do not state one way or the other what one should do reguarding teams therefore one must draw on prior knowledge. Premise 2 says that it is sometimes played in teams. Therefore if ye usualy play as in teams, one would use that information. If one usualy plays solo, one would use that information. If one plays either way, then one could assume both are acceptable.

However, it would be better to use information from the area in which ye will be playing. In this case that would be the realm of puzzle pirates.

However, we are to be greenies or acting as greenies. Therefore we would have no prior knowledge of what the generally accepted rules are for hide and seek in the puzzle pirates world.

Therefore one could not conclude that a person should come into a game of puzzle pirates hide and seek and know that teams are not allowed.

Therefore, Bridalgirl should be awarded her prize.

Let me know what part of this argument is wrong, and i will correct it or stand down.
[Jul 14, 2006 9:13:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
eral4



Joined: Jan 22, 2005
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Re: Were we wrong?

 
Wow.........



Also, if you had to be at the manor at the start, then why do I know a mate that got a foil for a prize when he logged on half way and was like, whatcha guys doin? We said, playing your fav game... Oh snap, ye broke yer own rules.



Oh snap? Perhaps the foil was just a gift like we have given many others out for greenie weekend. Called bonus prizes and they have happened before the event and most likely throughout this event "Greenie Weekend" so that really has no relavance either.

I also agreed with my other mates in denying you the full prize. Just didn't seem right. You trade requested me numerous times as if you had no idea who you or your crew had found.

If you don't like the way it was ran or handled sorry go run your own event and make the rules however you like


earlone
[Jul 14, 2006 9:15:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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Re: Were we wrong?

Your argument is flawed because Bridal is not a greenie. And essentially, it's obviously not in the spirit of the game to undermine a very simple-concept event.
----------------------------------------
Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister
Emerald & Obsidian - incognito!
#TeamPurple
[Jul 14, 2006 9:16:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
natan_j



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Re: Were we wrong?

Sorry, used a quote from a friend for the "flamer" part, as Sagacious took at least one of my posts out of context, edited it/them to make me look bad, and now apparently has a large following. I entered this topic to try and help settle this justly, and am now being ousted for a single word slip-up, and because I did not like the obscenities uttered by Sagacious. I did not want to start an all-out debate on swearing, just for him to not use an obscenity again in this topic, as I found it repulsive.
[Jul 14, 2006 9:20:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tarajayne

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Re: Were we wrong?

Thews, will you be my hearty?

You're the one person with I think the least involvement in the event itself that has had the most rational and articulate arguments.
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Bridalgirl

I get around.
[Jul 14, 2006 9:21:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thews



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Re: Were we wrong?

If I was not mistaken:

I encourage everyone to be a act like the cute respectful greenie we all know and love (trust me you want to)!

Down on Lagniappe, we will be celebrating and having fun like the typical greenie!



And I also want to know where ye get the idea that hide and seek is played with out people helping in Puzzle Pirates? I mean really, how many games of hide and seek have you played? And how many times has the topic of teams being allowed or disallowed come up in those games?

I bet if ye asked the ult boards what they thought about hide and seek on puzzle pirates, the would be pretty puzzeled.

I really dont see, if you have rules as basic as reverse hide and seek ye can expect anyone to know weather or not they are allowed to talk to outside people, hiders or other members in the game. The rules even clearly state you can talk to the hiders. It would seem easy for someone to imply from this, that they could talk to others about the location of the hiders.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Thews at Jul 14, 2006 9:34:10 PM]
[Jul 14, 2006 9:23:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
PogoBeta

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Re: Were we wrong?

 
Anyway, I didn't "bring this agrument to the forums" I posted in the event thread my problems with how the prizes were awarded. And atually that's what Shortyjack had suggested I do. You can go back and read the screenshot chatlog if you want for that.


I told Shortyjack personally that I found it unnecessary to either post about it or to encourage you to do it. Nothing good will ever result in taking petty disputes and bringing them into a place where people jump at the chance to throw two cents, regardless of relevance.

 
Also, if you had to be at the manor at the start, then why do I know a mate that got a foil for a prize when he logged on half way and was like, whatcha guys doin? We said, playing your fav game... Oh snap, ye broke yer own rules.


I didn't write the rules, however seeing as I involved (as a hider) I find it necessary to take part when others insist on picking said rules apart.

If such is the case, then I suppose the right course of action would be for your mate with the foil (and any other latecomers) to return their prizes.

In fact, even though specific prizes were only given to the top 3 places, I believe it has already been stated that participant prizes were given out to everybody who registered. If it wasn't everybody, please let me know and I'll pass the information on.

Also, if you still maintain that a fish is vastly inferior to a foil or a chair, I'm sure you'd be able to find plenty of people who are willing to trade.


 
 

The rules of hide and seek are as follows:

1. Somebody hides
2. Somebody seeks

Additional rules vary by region.



And there ya go, I did that. Prize please.


Did you, now?




Thews wrote: 
To bring back on topic and sum up...

Premesis:
1. Rules didnt say ye had to work alone
2. Sometimes, hide and seek is played with people working together
3. Sometimes, hide and seek is played with people not working together
4. If one wants to win, one must follow the rules
5. In the constest, we are to act like greenies or be greenies
6. Greenies are new to puzzle pirates

Argument:
The rules do not state one way or the other what one should do reguarding teams therefore one must draw on prior knowledge. Premise 2 says that it is sometimes played in teams. Therefore if ye usualy play as in teams, one would use that information. If one usualy plays solo, one would use that information. If one plays either way, then one could assume both are acceptable.

However, it would be better to use information from the area in which ye will be playing. In this case that would be the realm of puzzle pirates.

However, we are to be greenies or acting as greenies. Therefore we would have no prior knowledge of what the generally accepted rules are for hide and seek in the puzzle pirates world.

Therefore one could not conclude that a person should come into a game of puzzle pirates hide and seek and know that teams are not allowed.

Therefore, Bridalgirl should be awarded her prize.

Let me know what part of this argument is wrong, and i will correct it or stand down.


Iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

You could just as easily say that if you normally played with teams, and knew "greenies would have no prior knowledge" and would then play without teams. Just throwing the logic back and forth and applying new negatives doesn't lead you to a single outcome as to whether or not Bridalgirl should get the prize.





After looking at the points from the beginning on, I must state that getting third place through unfair means does not change it from third place.

As it stands, it looks like Bridalgirl is more than likely going to be given the prizes that were withheld earlier, on the grounds that while all the flagmates involved (at least all those who responded to the conversation) agreed that using outside players who didn't register is an cheap and unfair tactic, it was not specifically ruled out.

However to prevent people from exploiting oversights, it should be known from this point on that all events hosted by Dark Judgement are subject to change without notice at the discretion of the directors. Rule omissions will be avoided as much as possible regardless of common sense. I will see that the Greenie Weekend thread is edited accordingly.
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Pogo on Midnight

I used to have an avatar shop
for someone this washed up, you'd think i'd be a little cleaner...
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by PogoBeta at Jul 14, 2006 9:34:30 PM]
[Jul 14, 2006 9:32:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
natan_j



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Re: Were we wrong?

 
Your argument is flawed because Bridal is not a greenie. And essentially, it's obviously not in the spirit of the game to undermine a very simple-concept event.

So being naive would excuse her? She checked if it was in the rules if teaming was allowed, did not see any trace of it, and helped out only a few people. She did not adversely affect the ranking outcomes, but may of helped some people enjoy the game more. She was NOT acting out of personal greed or selfishness, but was instead helping other people out, which I can hardly say for most people in this topic so far, or even the whole world.
This topic should have been a simple-concept event, unfortunately advese responses to my distaste of swears brought us this far off topic, so I would prefer it , as I am sure everyone would, that we get back on topic and STAY there.
[Jul 14, 2006 9:33:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cmdrzoom

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Re: Were we wrong?

In this case, I'd say that Bridalgirl has acted very much in the "greenie spirit."
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Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure
Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt
[Jul 14, 2006 9:35:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thews



Joined: Dec 8, 2005
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Re: Were we wrong?

 


You could just as easily say that if you normally played with teams, and knew "greenies would have no prior knowledge" and would then play without teams. Just throwing the logic back and forth and applying new negatives doesn't lead you to a single outcome as to whether or not Bridalgirl should get the prize.


YES! You are 100% correct.

I can just as eaisly say that a contestant may think that teams are not allowed and that is my point.

If it is just as easy to assume that teams are allowed as it is to say that they are not allowed. Then you have to accept both as possibilities unless ye state otherwise.

And it should also be put out on the table that I was involved in the event. And Bridal, nor anyone else knows to who this account belongs.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Thews at Jul 14, 2006 9:40:52 PM]
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PogoBeta

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Re: Were we wrong?

 
I really dont see, if you have rules as basic as reverse hide and seek ye can expect anyone to know weather or not they are allowed to talk to outside people, hiders or other members in the game.


I apologize for assuming that other people would understand that when one person is registered in a competition, it is at least slightly unfair for him/her to receive help from people that aren't registered/declared/involved whatsoever.

It was stated earlier that we broke our own rules by allowing a person to join late. This is not the same as allowing some sort of spy network to go around seeking at potentially 5 times the efficiency.

I also likened the tactic to having friends take turns running portions of a marathon. Perhaps a more accurate analogy would be to have friends helping out a participant in a hot dog eating competition, where their total number of hot dogs consumed is listed under a single name.

 
The rules even clearly state you can talk to the hiders. It would seem easy for someone to imply from this, that they could talk to others about the location of the hiders.


This is probably that nagging common sense of mine kicking in again, but I really don't understand how you can take "talking to the hiders" and "talk to a group of secretly involved helpers who are not, themselves, hiders" to mean the same thing.


EDIT for WTF:
 
 


You could just as easily say that if you normally played with teams, and knew "greenies would have no prior knowledge" and would then play without teams. Just throwing the logic back and forth and applying new negatives doesn't lead you to a single outcome as to whether or not Bridalgirl should get the prize.


YES! You are 100% correct.

I can just as eaisly say that a contestant may think that teams are not allowed and that is my point.

If it is just as easy to assume that teams are allowed as it is to say that they are not allowed. Then you have to accept both as possibilities unless ye state otherwise.


Then how can you say "this may or may not be, this may or may not be, therefore Bridalgirl should get the prize?

All you managed to say with that post was "There are a variety of possible conclusions as to whether or not Bridalgirl should get the prize, however no matter which is the case, Bridalgirl should get the prize"
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Pogo on Midnight

I used to have an avatar shop
for someone this washed up, you'd think i'd be a little cleaner...
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by PogoBeta at Jul 14, 2006 9:49:16 PM]
[Jul 14, 2006 9:45:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BenjeminR

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Re: Were we wrong?

 
And I also want to know where ye get the idea that hide and seek is played with out people helping in Puzzle Pirates? I mean really, how many games of hide and seek have you played? And how many times has the topic of teams being allowed or disallowed come up in those games?



The problem is not that there are different rules for hide and seek, the problem is that an oversight in the rules of the event did not express that helping others find the locations of hiders was allowed. You keep fighting saying that "bridal is right cause rules can be different." However, she has acted against what the planners wanted their event to be.

I don't think you are able to argue that either side is right, but both do have justifications (no matter how small they may be) for the actions they have taken.


 
 

The rules even clearly state you can talk to the hiders. It would seem easy for someone to imply from this, that they could talk to others about the location of the hiders.



This is probably that nagging common sense of mine kicking in again, but I really don't understand how you can take "talking to the hiders" and "talk to a group of secretly involved helpers who are not, themselves, hiders" to mean the same thing.


Hells ya pogo
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Legacee
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by BenjeminR at Jul 14, 2006 9:48:37 PM]
[Jul 14, 2006 9:45:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thews



Joined: Dec 8, 2005
Posts: 55
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Re: Were we wrong?

 



The problem is not that there are different rules for hide and seek, the problem is that an oversight in the rules of the event did not express that helping others find the locations of hiders was allowed. You keep fighting saying that "bridal is right cause rules can be different." However, she has acted against what the planners wanted their event to be.


Yes she did act against what the planners wanted. But the planners didnt say that they wanted her to stop. They didnt warn her. They let her finish then denied her the prize. She never denied working with others from what i see... And this is a sign of someone who really doesnt think they are doing something wrong imo.

And most of puzzle pirates is a social game. It seems to me that if ye want someone to not talk to others during an event, that is more of a exception than a rule. Most events attempt to spur interaction and teamwork. That, is atleast my experience.
[Jul 14, 2006 9:51:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tarajayne

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Re: Were we wrong?

Agreed w/ Legacy which is why I know this argument is likely to go on forever, lol.

I know no one will ever win this argument. Arguments aren't made to be won in Parley.

I will again go back to why I ever had a problem in the first place.

1-I was accused of cheating, which I don't like because it makes me very upset. I didn't defy the rules therefore I did not cheat.

2-Even though they apparently "knew" I was "cheating" the whole time they just let us parade around for nearly an hour making us believe we had the chance to win 1st, 2nd, or 3rd prize. They could have sent a tell saying, sorry mate you lose. Or, stop that or you won't win. Problem would have been easily solved before the parley tartfest.
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Bridalgirl

I get around.
[Jul 14, 2006 9:53:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BenjeminR

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Re: Were we wrong?

 
And most of puzzle pirates is a social game. It seems to me that if ye want someone to not talk to others during an event, that is more of a exception than a rule. Most events attempt to spur interaction and teamwork. That, is atleast my experience.



You can talk all you want during bake-offs, but there is no way they would let you puzzle as a group and add your scores together.

Just because the mechanics of their event didn't block it doesn't make it right.
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Legacee
[Jul 14, 2006 9:54:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thews



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Re: Were we wrong?

 


Then how can you say "this may or may not be, this may or may not be, therefore Bridalgirl should get the prize?

All you managed to say with that post was "There are a variety of possible conclusions as to whether or not Bridalgirl should get the prize, however no matter which is the case, Bridalgirl should get the prize"


I was opperating under the assumption that unless it can be proven that someone did something wrong, then ya gata assume they didnt do anything wrong. So if you can only say that she may or may not have cheated, then the same applies to ever other person who got a prize.

They also might have cheated.

If you can give me an argument that proves that bridal cheated, then ye win.

But from the information avaliable, the best argument that seems possible is mine, and that is that she may or may not have acted against what she thought the rules were. and that argument is nowhere near good enough to say that she shouldent get the prize.

Because it could just as easily be assumed that the other people in the contest may or may not have gotten outside help, and they also may or may not have thought it was cheeting.

They are all pretty poor arguments.

Unless a better argument exists that says bridal shouldent get the prize, with information that was given before the game started then it seems like there is no real option than to honor the rules as they were written.


EDIT:

I only made that argument in the first place because people were saying that hide and seek is played without teams. And that just seemed silly, because sometimes it is.

If you agree with the fact that it is sometimes played with teams, then how can you get mad at someone for assuming that working with others is OK when they were never told otherwise?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Thews at Jul 14, 2006 10:00:25 PM]
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natan_j



Joined: Sep 3, 2005
Posts: 26
Status: Offline

Re: Were we wrong?

 
Even though they apparently "knew" I was "cheating" the whole time they just let us parade around for nearly an hour making us believe we had the chance to win 1st, 2nd, or 3rd prize. They could have sent a tell saying, sorry mate you lose. Or, stop that or you won't win. Problem would have been easily solved before the parley tartfest.

Agreed.
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maadneet



Joined: Oct 20, 2005
Posts: 359
Status: Offline

Re: Were we wrong?

 
Just because the mechanics of their event didn't block it doesn't make it right.

Just because their method gave them an advantage doesn't mean it's wrong.
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Maadneet on all oceans
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