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winner1

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PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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Dark Vengeance, commanded by Prominent, attacked the Mist Devils

A fairly new commander is Captaining a sloop full of "green" jobbers and is attacked by another crew! PvP time! That would be great, if it were actually a fair fight...
The attacking crew is made up of members who many are Alts with very green Novice stats, yet whose skill and experience in reality are far greater. This causes the defending ship to appear green (fair fight) when in reality they are clearly unmatched. This type of PvP is reprehensible in my opinion and is an unethical way of falsely increasing a crews ranking. Picking on the little guys will not lead you to greatness. It is only the shameful scheme of a BAND OF COWARDS! Therefore, I submit a request to rename this crew The Candy Takers!

P.S There is also an imbalance in the amount of booty won in a PvP. This sloop won an average of 2,100 poe per brigand battle, yet lost an incredible 12,000 poe to the Candy Takers. This was nearly equivalent to 6 sea battles and almost 90 minutes of jobber effort.
[Jun 8, 2006 5:28:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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The inbalance in booty take is deliberate, nothing wrong there.

The alting to attack you, however, might be a bannable offense. To quote one of Eurydice's additions to the alt abuse page, "Using alts with low puzzle standing to evade the Black Ship" is alt abuse and is thus serious business.
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
[Jun 8, 2006 5:40:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
brazzy

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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The attacking crew is made up of members who many are Alts with very green Novice stats, yet whose skill and experience in reality are far greater. This causes the defending ship to appear green (fair fight) when in reality they are clearly unmatched. This type of PvP is reprehensible in my opinion and is an unethical way of falsely increasing a crews ranking.


If that's indeed what happened (and you didn't just have a bad day and they a good one) then yes, that's not nice. But it's not commonly a problem, because you generally make more money against brigands in the same time than with PvP.

 
P.S There is also an imbalance in the amount of booty won in a PvP. This sloop won an average of 2,100 poe per brigand battle, yet lost an incredible 12,000 poe to the Candy Takers. This was nearly equivalent to 6 sea battles and almost 90 minutes of jobber effort.


Yes, this is intended. You lose 50% of your booty and 25% of your hold in PvP, as opposed to 25% / 10% against brigands. So you'd still have lost 6000 in a loss against brigands. Pillaging for very long without porting&dividing is risky.
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--
http://www.brazzy.de
[Jun 8, 2006 5:53:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.brazzy.de/ [Link]  Go to top 
DavidJames

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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At the same time, porting after 1-3 battles and divvying is highly unprofitable,considering that everytime you port, the payout meter is reset. Therefore, the meter never has time to warm up and get going.

On the other hand, if you stay out long enough and make enough PoE, and someone just happens to feed the bot with the big mouth, you are in danger of being PvP'ed without even knowing it.

So now, we reach the dilemma. Pillage for a while, and risk actual piracy? or play it safe and port after two battles and head back out.

My advice would be to live and learn. Take this in stride and do better next time.

Reasons to live and learn:

From my experience with the people in Dark Vengeance, greatness is defined on a day to day basis. There is no set short term goals for the crew, except to terrorize the ocean like pirates.

You want to rename them the Candy Takers? Sorry mate, but if you arent the baby, they wont be the Candy Takers anymore.

Learning to PvP on the Bnav simulator on Game Gardens (courtesy of OOO) might be something you should look into as well.

~Pedro

Trying to be helpful and stern at the same time.
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Sanpedro,

Seething.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by DavidJames at Jun 8, 2006 9:26:19 AM]
[Jun 8, 2006 9:22:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kusje

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I think any decent navver with a decent crew could get a disengage in a pvp. Just run for 10 turns without getting shot. Not that hard.
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Kneiss wrote: 
I have read so many philosophical books, i can't count. I have beaten my chesscomputer on the highest level several times. I have been classbest in math for several times.

[Jun 8, 2006 9:34:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
stowaway1693

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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kusje wrote: 
I think any decent navver with a decent crew could get a disengage in a pvp. Just run for 10 turns without getting shot. Not that hard.



and yet:

winner1 wrote: 
A fairly new commander is Captaining a sloop full of "green" jobbers and is attacked by another crew! PvP time! That would be great, if it were actually a fair fight...


And while it's not impossible to have a 'decent' crew made up of greenies, it certainly lessens the likelihood of being able to outrun greenies that are actually alts of good puzzlers.
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Sisqi

Midnight- now in Phresh Phoenix Phlavour

[Jun 8, 2006 9:55:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kusje

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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Hmm, that is true. I forgot we were talking about a greenie filled ship here. But yeah, they should be slapped silly for using alts to pvp.
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Kneiss wrote: 
I have read so many philosophical books, i can't count. I have beaten my chesscomputer on the highest level several times. I have been classbest in math for several times.

[Jun 8, 2006 9:57:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
USERBWILSON

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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You could do like I did when they attacked me...Shoot them up too....hehe....lol

Max...Max..... We both worked to repair the damage inflicted on our vessels....

We couldn't wait for the sword fight so we could whip their arses good.

However, they didn't want to fight the sword fight so they disengaged... but before they did....they fired two more shots into us to wound us for a reengage...

We showed them a thing or two...hehe....We out ran them .....hehe....roflmao...lol


Katees of Yarr Talk
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Revenge is a dish best served cold.....

Do you feel the chill? hehe
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by USERBWILSON at Jun 8, 2006 10:49:59 AM]
[Jun 8, 2006 10:38:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kusje

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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If they attacked you and disengaged, I doubt they'd be able to engage you again unless you really sucked at repairing damage.
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Kneiss wrote: 
I have read so many philosophical books, i can't count. I have beaten my chesscomputer on the highest level several times. I have been classbest in math for several times.

[Jun 8, 2006 11:08:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
moler22190

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I thought Might Rings were now based off of duty scores? Wouldn't an Excellent be an Excellent no matter who scored it, therefore negating the purpose of alting?

Molerman,
Probably mistaken.
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but I shall no longer take any active part in the game, on any ocean.

Join the local PPA - Puzzle Pirates Anonymous, coming to a town near you!
[Jun 8, 2006 2:24:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    moler22190 [Link]  Go to top 
manky

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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It's puzzle ranking, not puzzle scoring :) So an able pirate pulling learning and an able pirate pulling incredible are one and the same as far as might rings are concerned.
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the_rock99 wrote: 
Besides, gamers dont cheat. We grind and grind until we get it right.

[Jun 8, 2006 2:42:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Flak_88

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I thought Might Rings were now based off of duty scores? Wouldn't an Excellent be an Excellent no matter who scored it, therefore negating the purpose of alting?


Molerman,
Probably mistaken.


No they are based on skill ranking. But you are still right. It's pretty hard to alt and have low might rings now, because people naturally run their alts skill up quite quickly. I can't even use alts to move goods anymore because now they spawn me hard ships just as often, might as well use my main.
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Flakcannon, on all English Oceans, except that imposter on Malachite.
Farming, cleaning up your poo, and making you drink it.
[Jun 8, 2006 2:44:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    habhabhabhab [Link]  Go to top 
USERBWILSON

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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If they attacked you and disengaged, I doubt they'd be able to engage you again unless you really sucked at repairing damage.


Remember that we sat for a period of time and we both repaired our damage....However, on the move just before the disengage they shot us twice. We then had a damaged ship...theirs was repaired... they were going to follow and engage us again. They knew that we were returning to port from a pilly and the chances for a nice booty from us was highly likely. I was very proud of the fact that even with a damaged ship we were able to elude them. This saved us time, supplies and Poe had we lost the next battle with them. Me hats off to the crew that was aboard me vessel...YARR!!!!!!!!

Katees of Yarr
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Revenge is a dish best served cold.....

Do you feel the chill? hehe
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by USERBWILSON at Jun 8, 2006 3:06:40 PM]
[Jun 8, 2006 3:05:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
dchow

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I may be wrong, but might rings in a PVP battle are largely based on SF ranking...or atleast thats what I remember. So if your alt never SF's the pvp might ring is not going to actually reflect your true might.
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Things in my past I can never change.
[Jun 8, 2006 4:25:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TarnumTheRed

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I may be wrong, but might rings in a PVP battle are largely based on SF ranking...or atleast thats what I remember. So if your alt never SF's the pvp might ring is not going to actually reflect your true might.

It is not that much more than the other parts, it is simply weighted a little heavier than the other puzzles. And might ring calculation is the same whether it is a player vessel or brigand. It is a comparison of raw numbers, no difference between the two.
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Tarnum

Darvid wrote: 
I guess it's just fun to poke the retarded bunny.
Muroni wrote: 
Who isn't sure that leif will let me enter him, but I'm willing to try.

[Jun 8, 2006 7:26:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rick9109

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I agree that with the evidence presented that there was possibly alt abuse, but might rings are really wonky right now.
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Rome
Pirates of the Damned, Crimson Tide.
I don't care what it did to them, the game's been good to me.
[Jun 8, 2006 7:42:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    rick9109    cactusrome [Link]  Go to top 
sharon7

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I was one of the pirates on board for the PVP. Would like to clarify that we weren't on our alts. Pirates on board were: Shar, Fonshizzle, Prominent, Jjin and Keiichiro. Most of us hv reasonable stats to make sure we arent alts, except for Prom, who is actually from Cobalt ocean. All of us used the names of our main pirates. That is not alting. Moreover, the defenders had 6 pirates vs us 5 pirates. I don't know what you're talking about. The name "candy takers" sounds fun. Will let my captain know. Thanks!
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~sHaR~
On Emerald Ocean now :)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by sharon7 at Jun 8, 2006 8:35:26 PM]
[Jun 8, 2006 8:31:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rick9109

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I was one of the pirates on board for the PVP. Would like to clarify that we weren't on our alts. Pirates on board were: Shar, Fonshizzle, Prominent, Jjin and Keiichiro. Most of us hv reasonable stats to make sure we arent alts, except for Prom, who is actually from Cobalt ocean. All of us used the names of our main pirates. That is not alting. Moreover, the defenders had 6 pirates vs us 5 pirates. I don't know what you're talking about. The name "candy takers" sounds fun. Will let my captain know. Thanks!


Nevermind on the whole alt thing then q=
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Rome
Pirates of the Damned, Crimson Tide.
I don't care what it did to them, the game's been good to me.
[Jun 8, 2006 8:36:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    rick9109    cactusrome [Link]  Go to top 
Prominent333

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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Hehe, I'm Prominent, and there were no alts on that ship. Me and a few cobalt mates, and a few crewmates.

And for Katees...I didn't follow you...and you didn't elude me...you asked me nicely not to attack you again, so I didn't. :)

Edit: It was only 11k...and I even gave my share of our booty to the captain immediately afterward, just to say good game.
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Stupidhead tells you, "cash out so i can watch stupid high stakes poker kkthxbai"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Prominent333 at Jun 8, 2006 8:45:21 PM]
[Jun 8, 2006 8:38:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shad_

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I do believe the game has a fair way of dealing it this. War Dec. No offense but I don't see the point of COMPLAINING on the forums about how a crew pvped you. If I cared to read about the pvp I'd look up your crew info. And if the navver with a boat of "Greenies" isn't ready for a pvp don't get on the water. Fair game.
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Rawr... Shrike.
[Jun 8, 2006 8:39:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Redneck40

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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As Shar just said, I was on that ship, too.

I have expert SF, Solid Bilge, Guns, Sails...It's not my main character, no. But I don't have green novice stats.

Shar definitely doesn't have green stats, I'll leave it at that.

Prom was the lone member of that sloop that had green stats, so don't claim that we all had mostly novices on our info pages.
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Fonshizzle
[Jun 8, 2006 8:40:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shad_

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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<3 Fons!!!
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Rawr... Shrike.
[Jun 8, 2006 8:41:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
USERBWILSON

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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Just for the record: Prominent did not use an alt the day of our PVP and I do not know who was aboard his ship at the time...

Prominent wrote:
And for Katees...I didn't follow you...and you didn't elude me...you asked me nicely not to attack you again, so I didn't. :)



However, given that we are pirates after all......and given that you did engage us again.....(had to follow close to us for some time to do so...since you engaged us to begin with)..you can understand my assumption and the assumption, however real or imagined, that we eluded you.

Prominent tells you, "i even faked an engage"
Prominent tells you, "and dissed"

Prominent tells you, "i mean i engaged and disengaged quickly just to mess with you

I have to admit it was one of the more exciting PVP's I've ever participated in. No pussy footing around. Battle was quick and to the point.
The (re)engage-disengage caused us to have a sharp intake of breath just to think we were going to have to battle you again. It was fun Prominent.....Thank you for such and exciting PVP. I would also like to thank the bots that engaged you right after your disengage.

Katees of Yarr Talk
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Revenge is a dish best served cold.....

Do you feel the chill? hehe
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by USERBWILSON at Jun 9, 2006 11:53:44 AM]
[Jun 9, 2006 11:46:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Prominent333

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I engaged you and disengaged...not dissed AFTER we intercepted.


I followed by you on your way to DN...because I was porting too. :) I NEVER intercepted you a second time...you were even talking to me in tells. :) I told you beforehand that I was only joking. I don't see how you could assume you eluded us. I was half a league ahead of you by port.
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Stupidhead tells you, "cash out so i can watch stupid high stakes poker kkthxbai"
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Galrion

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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I would like to point out that the crew we attacked are Sea Lords. Although they may have had a greenie crew out they are an obvious target for crews, like ours, looking to improve our ranking.

If the person running the ship is unable to manage a greenie crew against PvPs then they probably shouldn't be out with that type of crew.

This all being said...you should get your facts straight first before taking this to the forums if you are going to do so at all.
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EvilGohan0

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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If any of u noobie navers dare want to call my crew an alt abuse place, then you can take it up with me. any alts in my crew are forced to have stats and if they got none for the time being they are from another ocean. so id be happy u even got away with ur booty for now, cause every person reading this knows ur lucky it wasnt me naving.

Any more complaints with my crew you take it up with me please, i aint going to sit back and watch people complain cause they jsut aint any good.

Darkmemory aKa Evilgohan
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Its all about the BooooooooooooooooBies!
Ostruem FTW!

Captain of Angels Forbid,

Nutcase of Midnight,

Lover of Woe
[Jun 10, 2006 7:20:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SimpleD



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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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If any of u noobie navers dare want to call my crew an alt abuse place
Ok, your crew is an 'alt abuse place.' Flamebait responded to, happy?

I don't really see why any flamebait was needed bro, your crewmates had already adressed the poster claim and methodically poked holes in his story. They handled themselves responsibily and made it pretty clear the posters gripe was over losing the PvP.

- Complicated
Sitting back because 'he just ain't any good'
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by SimpleD at Jun 10, 2006 7:53:27 AM]
[Jun 10, 2006 7:51:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Prominent333

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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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Prominent tells you, "i even faked an engage"
Prominent tells you, "and dissed"

Prominent tells you, "i mean i engaged and disengaged quickly just to mess with you


Where did I give you permission to use my name in logs, anyway?
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Stupidhead tells you, "cash out so i can watch stupid high stakes poker kkthxbai"
[Jun 10, 2006 8:13:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Galrion

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- Complicated
Sitting back because 'he just ain't any good'


Good to see you again by the way mate.
[Jun 10, 2006 11:21:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    LostMeAtHello [Link]  Go to top 
SimpleD



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Re: PvP's with Dark Vengeance (even for pirates) UNETHICAL! Reply to this Post
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Back at you bud.
[Jun 11, 2006 12:06:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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