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Flak_88

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 
I just checked the notice board on Prolix, which said shipyards were exempt from taxes. The only shoppes on the island are shipyards.


He's trying to dust the weavery bazaar, not the ship bazaar.
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Flakcannon, on all English Oceans, except that imposter on Malachite.
Farming, cleaning up your poo, and making you drink it.
[May 7, 2006 9:09:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    habhabhabhab [Link]  Go to top 
Nowie

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 
 
I just checked the notice board on Prolix, which said shipyards were exempt from taxes. The only shoppes on the island are shipyards.


He's trying to dust the weavery bazaar, not the ship bazaar.


But I like my Prolix Weavery. It gets me gold.
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Greendodge says, "Fold: The New Raise."

Shiny avatar by KingPriam
[May 7, 2006 10:13:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Nowie21    Nowie411 [Link]  Go to top 
Flak_88

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 
 
 
I just checked the notice board on Prolix, which said shipyards were exempt from taxes. The only shoppes on the island are shipyards.


He's trying to dust the weavery bazaar, not the ship bazaar.


But I like my Prolix Weavery. It gets me gold.


Bah, buy your gold from me, but not at 32767 =P.
----------------------------------------
Flakcannon, on all English Oceans, except that imposter on Malachite.
Farming, cleaning up your poo, and making you drink it.
[May 7, 2006 10:44:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    habhabhabhab [Link]  Go to top 
Nemor

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

To Scupperer:
Scupperer wrote: 
I'm coming at it onesided?
Of course you are. Everyone is going to say what they feel. It just so happens your opinions correlate with your side of the war. My opinions follow Vanguard. Is this really too hard to believe?

 
You're contorting yourself across so many different angles to make a point that doesn't exist.
I contorted myself in very few angles. I quoted from this thread, showed how your words directed at Hairless could have been used towards Amoreth as well, and then showed how the princess of Star Explorers had her words swept right from underneath her when the flag got Terra. Make a point and give proof. I dont see how I became a lyrical pretzel. Maybe my citations were too small; I felt they were used correctly and in context.

 
Of course Amoreth was upset about Napi; he'd spent a good deal of effort researching the Indian Myths and coming up with a naming scheme. He's also the reason Requiem went for Napi in the first place; so he had a much more personal stake in it than the rest of us.

Most successive governors at the very least respect the naming scheme of an island. Then out comes the big "Memorial" turd shoppes the second VG takes the island. Amoreth's only problem was taking it a bit personally. It's one of the reasons he stepped down; he realized he was taking the game too personally, and it was time for a break from the politics. A smart move.
I can comprehend this. I cant say I completely agree with our naming schemes; however, I do feel it is reasonable to expect that when you own an island and you build a building on that island, you get to name it whatever you want. I dont see how it should matter if the building is called Sioux Shipyard or UNF Frigs. Why is it so hard to see that Vanguard has its own naming scheme? Scupperer, as a governor yourself, you know that when youre the governor, you get to pick the name of the building you are creating. Here is an idea for all; if you feel Napi's rich Indian heritage is under attack, buy the evil Vanguard named building and pay for the rename. Im sure Vanguard will be happy to sell you a building on Napi for a quarter of a familiar.

 
As far as ruining islands go, let's see: at Terra: Palace and Realtor stripped of all furniture on the way out... Two "memorial" houses plopped down, probably on top of wood spawns, destroyed forever.
Stripping of all furniture is childish, I will give you that. I realize you cant provide proof of the next sentence being a fact; hence the word 'probably'. Because of this, I wont attack your assumption since I have no proof in defense of the opposite.

 
And you complain about taxes left at 100% for less than 12 hours(they don't reset themselves after a blockade, you know - I highly doubt Calais bothered to actually lower them before leaving, being so busy doing other things to shit on the island on his way out). And even if SX did raise it to 100% independently of it being left that way, so what? Clearly they don't want taxes at 100%
I never meant to give the perception that I was complaining about taxes. I have no shops or stalls on any island or ocean. The only things I ever buy are shot and rum, but I have Lima and DN for that anyways. Im fine with taxes being 100%, heck, make them 1000%; I wont lose sleep. I simply pointed out that Star Explorers used the motivational speech demanding the removal of the tyrrant from Terra, but I still see Calais' tactics being used in the new governorship. I guess this will teach us all that actions and words speak louder than parley.

And here comes my favorite part:
 
At the same time you would talk out of the side of your mouth in a backhanded compliment and accuse me of being spiteful and turning my back on people.
Yes and if you want me to provide the information for why I would say such things, I will.
 
What makes you think you're privy to any of my personal or political relationships, let alone any of the reasons for decisions or the background of the problems that arose in those that failed?
When I learned these backhanded compliments from you, I was a lord in your flag. However for some strange reason, my crew left your flag just after your spiteful action took place.
 
Really, if you're going to spittle mud on someone in public, may as well back it up with a full mouthful. That, or learn how to swallow before you open your mouth.
Ok. You want to hear it? Think back when you were still monarch of the Borg. Do you remember an allied frig being sunk and this ally whining about it? They demanded the frig be replaced or a strong alliance be lost. Where were you to do the right thing and give up the frig? You werent online. Two of your royal received this ally's demands. One stepped up and aided your flag in a time of need. He gave his own personal frig to this ally and saved you an alliance. He told the other royal that this should be thought of as his final action for the flag. He then told the other royal that he and his crew were going to be leaving the flag. When you heard of this good deed a friend did for you, what did you do? Did you do the right thing and reimburse this frig and wish him the fairest of winds? No. When the other royal told you of this occurance and came to you expecting the correct and just actions take place, what did you do? Instead of handing this parting friend a frigate, out of spite that a royal was taking his crew out of your flag, you did not give the frigate he deserved and then even went as far as telling the other royal, "Scupper him."
Thats a very cold thing to do. If you dont see this as turning your back on a friend, please explain it to us all. All I was ever trying to say was that I am happy to have learned this lesson, and keep my eyes open due to this. I am displeased to have to share it for all to hear, and I hope it doesnt affect any of your friendships.
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Previous King of Vanguard.

Nemor
Me carping
[May 8, 2006 12:10:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Skype: nemor1 [Link]  Go to top 
scupperer

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

I have never made promises to allies to replace their ships, and when allies offered beforehand to send their own ships into sinkers, I would ask them to job for us instead. Otherwise it was always at their own risk in a sinker, unless a deal had been reached before hand. The only deals I recall ever making regarding giving out ships was to replace in-flag ships in sinkers, and with Hawkins, when he took Viridis. And in his case, I loaned ships beforehand.

So while it may have been a wonderfully noble and beautiful gesture for this person to replace someones sunken WF with their own, and then ditch the flag at the same time; it was extraordinarily presumptious and rude of them to expect that I would have replaced the frig to begin with. It's kinda like bringing an uninvited guest to dinner at an expensive restaurant, then both of them leave early and stiff me with the bill. So, yeah, whoever did this to me deserved a stiff "scupper you" for doing it. Frigs don't grow on trees. I've forgiven the other person who placed me into debt against my will, to the tune of 250k, and I'm not holding any grudges against this person in question. Yet, don't expect me to apologize for being upset and irritated about it at the time.

And if I recall correctly, I still gave them the WF, regardless.

If they want to hold a grudge forever about that, fine. You'd just be well advised not to project your own emotions regarding this matter, or any other, onto my motives, especially in the form of a personal attack or insult.

I try very hard to steer clear of personal attacks against people on these forums and in game, and even in the heated debate regarding Napi/Terra, I've been careful to address only the in-game actions of people when I rant and rave. I happen to like Calais alot, as well as Ochubb and Bigbertha, all of Futon, and many other people in Vanguard. Just because I've fallen on the other side of the fence in this debate/war doesn't mean I don't consider these people friends.

If there are any other matters where you feel I shoved my horns into someone out of the pure lust to hurt them, ask me in a PM; I'll be happy to clarify things for you.
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I believe that we are all, openly or secretly, struggling against one or another kind of nihilism. - Ellen Willis
[May 8, 2006 5:19:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.scupperer.com [Link]  Go to top 
yohohobob

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 

 
Of course Amoreth was upset about Napi; he'd spent a good deal of effort researching the Indian Myths and coming up with a naming scheme. He's also the reason Requiem went for Napi in the first place; so he had a much more personal stake in it than the rest of us.

Most successive governors at the very least respect the naming scheme of an island. Then out comes the big "Memorial" turd shoppes the second VG takes the island. Amoreth's only problem was taking it a bit personally. It's one of the reasons he stepped down; he realized he was taking the game too personally, and it was time for a break from the politics. A smart move.
I can comprehend this. I cant say I completely agree with our naming schemes; however, I do feel it is reasonable to expect that when you own an island and you build a building on that island, you get to name it whatever you want. I dont see how it should matter if the building is called Sioux Shipyard or UNF Frigs. Why is it so hard to see that Vanguard has its own naming scheme? Scupperer, as a governor yourself, you know that when youre the governor, you get to pick the name of the building you are creating. Here is an idea for all; if you feel Napi's rich Indian heritage is under attack, buy the evil Vanguard named building and pay for the rename. Im sure Vanguard will be happy to sell you a building on Napi for a quarter of a familiar.


I remember when viridian was young and that nameing scemes were kept even when the island was taken over as i kind of respect to the flag who owned it before your flag has ruined two nameing scheme terra's one that was made by scupper i seem to remember and antix keept it then your flag comes along and makes boring names that a 5yr old could come up with sure maybe one memoral but when you start putting lots it just cheapens it. Also placeing things on spawns (if it happened?) was unheard of even antix(who was kind of the calais of that time but compared to calais he was a saint).

Now with the tax
napi noice board (soon to be renamed vanguard memorial noice board) wrote: 
If Napi is attacked this will go up to 100% All people who help us, or helped us win the island will be refunded of course.
Still keeping to there old tactics (yawn). True it is at 30% which is lower then SE on terra so i think SE should go too 30% aswell but i still like Kirins nice 3% tax more.
Also
napi noice board (soon to be renamed vanguard memorial noice board) wrote: 
"Vanguard is like a fat kid with chocolate....smudging up everything they touch"

Quoted for the truth
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Madyohoho SO of Di Cerberus-Retired
Lord of Arcana Imperii(Viridian)[quote]Remember, I'm the one that sits back and giggles at you mates while sipping masttails in my pajamas. Besides, Y!PP isn't a game; it's a way of life
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by yohohobob at May 8, 2006 5:35:07 AM]
[May 8, 2006 5:25:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nowie

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 
 
 
 
I just checked the notice board on Prolix, which said shipyards were exempt from taxes. The only shoppes on the island are shipyards.


He's trying to dust the weavery bazaar, not the ship bazaar.


But I like my Prolix Weavery. It gets me gold.


Bah, buy your gold from me, but not at 32767 =P.


Pffft.. defeats the purpose of my little Prolix mineral mine.
----------------------------------------
Greendodge says, "Fold: The New Raise."

Shiny avatar by KingPriam
[May 8, 2006 6:23:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Nowie21    Nowie411 [Link]  Go to top 
starrarose

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

Scupperer wrote: 
The comment on the Prolix notice board about the reasons behind the tax is just for fun, because, really, it is all Calais' fault when you get right down to it, isn't it? I don't think he'd want it any other way.



Bolded emphasis mine.

Anyone actually chatted to Calais lately? I assure you he's giggling insanely because people "hate" him for "ruining the ocean".

Did anyone who is intent on slamming Cal stop and think that mayber - maybe he's having the time of his life because everyone "hates" him? Anyone else who played Midnight back in the day see any similarities to a renowned Midnighter (I'm not mentioning the name myself, you guys figure out who I'm talking about) who went about things slightly differently but had people united in hating him?

Who cares if the taxes are set to 100%? If it wasn't a valid tactic, it wouldn't be avaliable for govenors to use now would it?
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Phoenix - Black Plague to the core, Flag may change randomly.

Prometheus wrote: 
TheRack wrote: 

I think the OM's suck and are cheats.

no u

-Pro

[May 8, 2006 7:19:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fatherjack



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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

Starrarose wrote: 
Anyone else who played Midnight back in the day see any similarities to a renowned Midnighter


Ahh so I'm not the only one who noticed the similarities then, do you think he created an alt and came back? :P
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Fatherjack at May 8, 2006 9:43:05 AM]
[May 8, 2006 9:41:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.new-caledonia.co.uk [Link]  Go to top 
juventus1

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

I thought I heard Nemo got a court restraining order against him to not let him play. At least if this is who I am thinking of, hehe.
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Desmagicus

"Be the change you want to see in the world."
-Mahatmas Gandhi
[May 8, 2006 9:50:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Flak_88

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

Those two's methods are not similar, and if you know them both, their personalities are far different.

The main difference is Calais's choice to play the political game, not good at it but he does it. He's a bit more humble too.
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Flakcannon, on all English Oceans, except that imposter on Malachite.
Farming, cleaning up your poo, and making you drink it.
[May 8, 2006 10:04:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    habhabhabhab [Link]  Go to top 
Nemor

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

Scupperer wrote: 
If there are any other matters where you feel I shoved my horns into someone out of the pure lust to hurt them, ask me in a PM; I'll be happy to clarify things for you.
Ill go back to PMs then. Thats where I wanted to keep this; you were the one who wanted my story to be public property. Remember this?
Nemor's PM to Scupperer before Scupperer posted his personal attack on Nemor, Nemor wrote: 
I will only accuse you of actions that occured and can only accuse you of how I perceived your actions. I am not afraid to say what Ive seen, but I dont desire to attempt to bring down Goliath. If you care to hear what Im trying not to mention, I will tell you. I do try my best to be honest and am not afraid to speak my mind.
...
However my opinion will always be true, my opinions are subject to change, but only with the proper education would they change. If you ever want to attempt to mold my opinions with your words, Im a very friendly guy.

That was a plea in an attempt not to fight with you. That was me saying I want to keep you up on your pedestal. I said that I didnt want to tell others the things I witnessed. You replied to me in a PM stating that you had just accidentally posted "a nasty response." This response was where you said I should, "back it up with a full mouthful."
I feel it is good for the ocean to hold you in high honor. You are an asset to Y!PP. If I actually did bring down the giant named Scupperer, it wouldnt be good for me or the game I love. Im done with my personal war of words with you. I walked into a room, heard the door lock behind me, and found myself trapped in with a hungry lion. What would you have done?

PS Im sure you will get in the final word. Itching is fine, just dont pick hard enough to make the scab bleed.
----------------------------------------
Previous King of Vanguard.

Nemor
Me carping
[May 8, 2006 12:26:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Skype: nemor1 [Link]  Go to top 
Nemor

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

Fatherjack wrote: 
Starrarose aka Phoenix wrote: 
Anyone else who played Midnight back in the day see any similarities to a renowned Midnighter


Ahh so I'm not the only one who noticed the similarities then, do you think he created an alt and came back? :P

Calais is not RobertDonald. (Oh no, I said his name. Does that mean if I say it two more times, he will leave the little town on the table and come to life?) There are similarities in the way Calais plays his character because Calais looks up to RobertDonald. (Oh crap, I said it again!) The difference, I have seen between Calais and - you know who - (Now Im in a Harry Potter book) is that Calais learned from - the other guy - and knows not to take things that far. I will be surprised if a calculating person like Calais does anything remotely banable. The lesson for those not paying attention is: bending the rules can get you banned, so make sure you live by the rules.

RobertDonald! *A big cloud of smoke is seen and fire rains down from the sky!* He he, Im a dork.
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Previous King of Vanguard.

Nemor
Me carping
[May 8, 2006 12:45:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Skype: nemor1 [Link]  Go to top 
Flak_88

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

RD would not have deleted props or dropped sites on wood spawns, both actions that are likely to invoke spirit of the game complaints. He never did anything to degrade an island that did not serve a strategic purpose. He always had a goal. Calais is more just getting away with what is legal and having a good ol time at it
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Flakcannon, on all English Oceans, except that imposter on Malachite.
Farming, cleaning up your poo, and making you drink it.
[May 8, 2006 1:09:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    habhabhabhab [Link]  Go to top 
scupperer

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 
You replied to me in a PM stating that you had just accidentally posted "a nasty response."

There was nothing accidental about the post - it was only accidental that I posted it before receiving your PM (or I likely would have restrained); and it was a nasty response on my part, forcing your hand.

 
PS Im sure you will get in the final word. Itching is fine, just dont pick hard enough to make the scab bleed.

I'm not after you, personally, Nemor, except that you brought it up (albeit elsewhere), and I take personal attacks seriously.

I've played the game long enough and pushed the boundaries far enough where I know I'm bound to have some people consider me an enemy and maybe even "hate" me - kinda like Calais is doing right now, and the pirate-who-can-not-be-namedTM who came before both of us. I don't really have a problem with enemies or even with being hated, so long as it's in the character and spirit of the game. Just don't take it personally, or make it personal, is all I can ask. And I know how hard that can be sometimes: a lot of us divest so much of our time and energy into the game that it's hard not to.

Even though I may be dumping hard on Calais, I do my best to give him the same respect I'd ask for myself, and restrain from the personal insults or accusations. It's one thing for me to accuse him of taking a crap on Terra before leaving the island, it's quite another if I were to just call him a p.o.s. There is a key difference. While both are crude, one is personal and uncalled for. The other is an opinion based on what actually happened (and wood spawn was indeed destroyed in one of the placements, according to the current governor.)

Of course, if it were me in place as governor now, I would likely just leave the taxes at 100% and keep putting up new buildings, with names even more eye splitting and eye soring than VG's, destroying spawns along the way. No reason to stop now, seeing as there are no repercussions, from either end of the game, and that there are people who will happily buy the shoppes, however idiotic the name and ballooned the competition is, and the only people complaining about the new tyrants being tyrants are the former tyrants. It's kinda like having a free pass to do whatever you want.

Fortunately (for Terra anyway), SX has other plans.
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I believe that we are all, openly or secretly, struggling against one or another kind of nihilism. - Ellen Willis
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by scupperer at May 8, 2006 2:12:09 PM]
[May 8, 2006 2:04:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.scupperer.com [Link]  Go to top 
Nemor

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

Everything in the parley section of the forums is parley. Antagonizing people is just parley for me. Any personal attack in the forum is the same as me attacking a ship I am at war with. I dont hate anyone. I dont even hate the flags Im at war with. If I were to hate someone, it would be due to reasons other than being at war with them. (Fear, oppression, jealousy, etc.)

Parley is: "A discussion or conference, especially one between enemies over terms of truce or other matters."* To me, nothing in game or in parley is a personal attack. If I am attacking someone in the parley forums, it is for political reasons and is still in game. If I came to your city/town/whatever and made actual personal accusations about the man behind Scupperer, then you could call these actions a personal attack. The closest I could get to a personal attack against Scupperer would be to say something mean about his cute children (which would be retarded of me and utterly wrong). Thats a personal attack. I role play. I grew up in the Ghosts of the Seven Seas. The parley section of the forums is still in game in my eyes. If Im looking at this the wrong way, please someone explain to me how getting under your "enemies" skin is even remotely close to being personal.

I would never make (my understanding of) a personal attack on you, Scupperer. If I had the ability to make a personal attack, I cant see a reason to do so. In real life (the only place, in my opinion, a personal attack can be derived from), I wouldnt attack you, Id buy you a beer and enjoy the company.

PS I thought my Beetlejuice and Harry Potter references were funny.

* Definition of "Parley" at Dictionary.com
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Previous King of Vanguard.

Nemor
Me carping
[May 8, 2006 3:54:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Skype: nemor1 [Link]  Go to top 
juventus1

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 
He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named would not have deleted props or dropped sites on wood spawns, both actions that are likely to invoke spirit of the game complaints. He never did anything to degrade an island that did not serve a strategic purpose...Calais is more just getting away with what is legal and having a good ol time at it


1. I would think that dropping sites on wood spawns could be a perfectly valid method of jacking up the market for wood. Who is to say that Calais and Co. don't have a stockpile of wood somewhere else and plan to wait and sell it for enormous returns? Anyways, there are tons of new islands opening, there are guaranteed to be wood-spawners in there.

2. SotG is a catch-all clause thought up by the legal team of OOO, kind of like "This establishment reserves the right to throw anyone they want out with use of excessive force and huge bodyguards." It isn't actually real, the more common explanation would be that his fun infringes on other people's right to have fun, or griefing. However, is it griefing if I win a Rumble match for a familiar and the other player loses? Isn't that unfun for the other player? This is not Everyone Wins Pirates, and there will always be two sides to every coin. He-Who-Must..you get the idea, went far beyond the bounds of decency, even offending some of his former mates, as the tale goes. This is merely a case of a few people on this side disagreeing with a few people on another side.

3. The point of the game is to have fun, not necissarily while or through ruining others fun, but not necessarily helping them achieve fun either. If Calais is having a good time, why should he have to stop because a few people's fun was
"ruined"? If Requiem gets renamed to Happy Bunny Love Fluffy Rainbow Squad, and starts giving out loads of free poe to everyone on the ocean, and Calais attempts to blow them up, then I can see the argument. Otherwise, sorry, no, just not gonna buy it.
----------------------------------------
Desmagicus

"Be the change you want to see in the world."
-Mahatmas Gandhi
[May 8, 2006 4:58:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
scupperer

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

Nemor wrote: 
Everything in the parley section of the forums is parley. Antagonizing people is just parley for me. Any personal attack in the forum is the same as me attacking a ship I am at war with. I dont hate anyone. I dont even hate the flags Im at war with. If I were to hate someone, it would be due to reasons other than being at war with them. (Fear, oppression, jealousy, etc.)


If you truly refuse to see the difference between impugning someone's character and impugning someone's actions, you need much more than a dictionary definition to refine your understanding of context. I don't consider the fact that it's online and in the context of a game to really make much of a difference, as words can be just as powerful written as they can be spoken.

However, it's clear you're just being difficult on purpose, so I'll take you up on that beer.

Juventus1 wrote: 
1..2..3.. go!!!


While I don't think Calais' departure of Terra actions cross the HWFO SotG line, when I read your three points I can't help but point out that the placing of the two houses, destroying of the wood spawn, and the stripping of the furni served no valuable purpose that I can see, in the context of winning or losing the island, other than to spite the winner. (Unless you'd like to job me to see their fleets of GF's loaded with wood for resale, or show off the 50,000+ unit filled bid tickets, in which case, I'll be willing to concede that 1 of the 3 points can be classified as both valid and spiting.)

Personally, I think allowing someone such a grand public avenue to display an act of poor sportsmanship does indeed serve a valuable in-game, social purpose. And this goes right with your point 3 - if this is someone's idea of fun, there's really no reason for us to try to take it away from them. However, I don't think the "Everyone Wins Pirates" comparison holds much water, as destroying spawns and stripping furni that can't be replaced (from the bazaars; it's been pointed out that the palace could be restored by a downgrade and then an upgrade) for no tactical purpose isn't comparable at all to wagering valuables in a fight.

On the bright side, it looks like Twiggy is handing out the bazaar deeds to people so that they can redecorate them and have some fun with it.
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I believe that we are all, openly or secretly, struggling against one or another kind of nihilism. - Ellen Willis
[May 8, 2006 6:31:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.scupperer.com [Link]  Go to top 
Fernie462



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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

starrarose wrote: 

Who cares if the taxes are set to 100%? If it wasn't a valid tactic, it wouldn't be avaliable for govenors to use now would it?


I am in no way sure even how taxes work. I do not know the entire story (only what I could grasp out of this flame fest). Maybe I'll start a thread to ask people to kindly explain to me what the big deal is ??

I do know, however, that whenever people start doing thing that pisses off even a minority that had no say and did not deserve the treatment, things can reach higher ears and have things changed.

From reading the yppedia, crew shares could be as high as 100%, and could be changed mid pillage. More than one -1 could be given, etc. At the time the captain was allowed to do so, thus the quote above. Just because its available, and the developers/imms/OM's/whoever-is-incharge have yet to do something about it doesn't give you the right to screw those who are not involved in the war.

The whole tax thing... I personally, (again, without knowing the history behind the quarrel) from an outsider's point, see it as an act of impotency. If you were indeed a loved leader and had any sort of real authority, you should well be able to propose a boycott to your allies. It seems however, that the leader making 100% taxes relies on his technicalities as "governor" to push his whim instead of true influence as a leader.

I know my crew is under one of the allies of one of the flags in question, while I have yet to sell my soul to the devil delve in politics, I don't take either side until I have a well informed opinion.

-Fernie
[May 8, 2006 9:32:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
drc500free

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

100% on crew cut and 100% on taxes share absolutely no mathematical relevance to each other. One is taking 100% of the available booty. The other is a doubling of rent over the base cost. if you're so close to the break even point that a doubled rent would put you out of business, you shouldn't be in business somewhere where people will double the rent. ;)
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-Darvid
sundancer wrote: 
will you please explain to me one more time why it would not be acceptable to blockade us?
Squid wrote: 
Because I shouldn't have to go through all that effort.

[May 9, 2006 7:51:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Peter_Blood

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

As for being able to minus more than one battle from someone's pay, that was removed cause some morons decided to be arses and make money the fast way. I remember people being zeroed out of the booty for leaving, or causing a ruckus during jobbing, and no one even noticing or caring. It took a considerable bit for someone to be zeroed, depending on OiC, but it was considered a valid tactic to combat imbeciles.
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Robberbaron

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Sacrificing Minions: Is there any problem it can't solve? - OotS #192
[May 9, 2006 12:08:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
RhiannonS

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

Scupperer wrote: 
However, I don't think the "Everyone Wins Pirates" comparison holds much water, as destroying spawns and stripping furni that can't be replaced (from the bazaars; it's been pointed out that the palace could be restored by a downgrade and then an upgrade) for no tactical purpose isn't comparable at all to wagering valuables in a fight.

On the bright side, it looks like Twiggy is handing out the bazaar deeds to people so that they can redecorate them and have some fun with it.



Too bad, Stars explorers learned that a Palace can't be downgraded then upgraded. Once upgraded, there is no way it can be fixed, unless they let it dust and loose the island.
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[Disclaimer]English is not my first language so please excuse my mispell and grammar mistakes.[/disclaimer]

-Rhia
[May 9, 2006 12:41:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
juventus1

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

Darvid wrote:
 
If you're so close to the break even point that a doubled rent would put you out of business, you shouldn't be in business somewhere where people will double the rent.


I agree completely. I think that whenever you start a business on an isle other than DN, Lima, or Sake, you should be given a notice that the taxes on the stall or shoppe can vary widely depending on the current owner of the island. If you want safety and complete stability, be a merchant of one of those three "free" isles. In business, risk corresponds to profit.
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Desmagicus

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[May 9, 2006 2:54:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sikral



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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

Well any good captain/monarch did whats good for thier crew

If Calais dusts the palace so the agressors waste more money, who cares.

Calais drained all the resources from Terra and built it into a market, who cares.

Calais is only using tactics to what he thinks is best for his flag in terms of politics, by making Terra into a useless investment for flags unless they intend on high taxes

If ye don't do whats best for ye flag/crew, then you don't deserve any power

But when you flame one's action, and repeat the same persons actions, then cover it up once there is action, Can there be respect?
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Hairless - Pirate on the Viridian Ocean
[May 10, 2006 3:07:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
scupperer

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 
But when you flame one's action...


I'd just like to point out a good number of the recent threads directed to complaining about Vanguard were actually started by members of Vanguard, deliberately seeking the flames. This particular thread by you, in fact; if you care to check.

While there is something to be said about tooting your own horn every once in a while, there's a thin line separating it from crossing into indulgent vanity and self-serving self-righteousness.

Weilding a scorched earth policy, and then bragging about it and defending it as a god-given right endears you to no one but yourself.

Then, crying "hypocrisy" when you've deliberately forced your opponent into a position where they have to employ one of your own destructive tactics (high taxation) in order to begin clearing up your mess, is about as honest and straight as a snake-oil salesman on Sunday.

For someone who's begging everyone not to throw rocks from their glass vessels, you sure spend a lot of time picking up rocks and throwing them. But, when the only thing you have to rally around are the fires you start yourself, it makes sense that you'd want to start a lot of fires.
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I believe that we are all, openly or secretly, struggling against one or another kind of nihilism. - Ellen Willis
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by scupperer at May 10, 2006 5:34:37 AM]
[May 10, 2006 5:19:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.scupperer.com [Link]  Go to top 
sikral



Joined: Oct 27, 2005
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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 
 
But when you flame one's action...


I'd just like to point out a good number of the recent threads directed to complaining about Vanguard were actually started by members of Vanguard, deliberately seeking the flames. This particular thread by you, in fact; if you care to check.

While there is something to be said about tooting your own horn every once in a while, there's a thin line separating it from crossing into indulgent vanity and self-serving self-righteousness.

Weilding a scorched earth policy, and then bragging about it and defending it as a god-given right endears you to no one but yourself.

Then, crying "hypocrisy" when you've deliberately forced your opponent into a position where they have to employ one of your own destructive tactics (high taxation) in order to begin clearing up your mess, is about as honest and straight as a snake-oil salesman on Sunday.

For someone who's begging everyone not to throw rocks from their glass vessels, you sure spend a lot of time picking up rocks and throwing them. But, when the only thing you have to rally around are the fires you start yourself, it makes sense that you'd want to start a lot of fires.


Just because im temporarily visiting Vanguard does not make me apart of Vanguard, so ye know, so please do not say your flag, since Ive only been here for 24 hours. (Friend invited me in the crew)

I have nothing else to say to that, as I do not think of myself and a person from Vanguard
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Hairless - Pirate on the Viridian Ocean
[May 10, 2006 6:13:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
scupperer

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 
Just because im temporarily visiting Vanguard does not make me apart of Vanguard, so ye know, so please do not say your flag, since Ive only been here for 24 hours. (Friend invited me in the crew)

I have nothing else to say to that, as I do not think of myself and a person from Vanguard



My apologies; it was awfully presumptuous of me to assume you a part of Vanguard after reading your posts and then checking your crew information.
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I believe that we are all, openly or secretly, struggling against one or another kind of nihilism. - Ellen Willis
[May 10, 2006 6:30:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.scupperer.com [Link]  Go to top 
Demonyaj

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

To the attention of one Scupperer,

You owe me a new sarcasm detector. You made the needle jump to the right on my last one so quickly that it emitted the magic smoke, and I can't get it back into the detector. I'd like one with a big digital readout, a shiny, expensive one. Thanks!

Oh, and you've taken it out on one another in Parley (Scup made a ton of excellent points in his last post), and taken it out on each other on the ocean (current score by my book is ReSX 3 - VG 1, but Vanguard has more shops compared to Req's inn), so there's only one way to deal with things now: DDR.

Yep, this is why I took a week and a half off. ;)
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Denying the inevitable for as long as possible is a waste of life's work.
[May 10, 2006 6:39:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
RhiannonS

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

 
Well any good captain/monarch did whats good for thier crew

If Calais dusts the palace so the agressors waste more money, who cares.

Calais drained all the resources from Terra and built it into a market, who cares.

Calais is only using tactics to what he thinks is best for his flag in terms of politics, by making Terra into a useless investment for flags unless they intend on high taxes

If ye don't do whats best for ye flag/crew, then you don't deserve any power

But when you flame one's action, and repeat the same persons actions, then cover it up once there is action, Can there be respect?



There is other goal in life than making money. I would even risk to say that there is higher goal in life to make money. Particularly at others depends. Calais is playing damn well is own game for his own goal, that doesn't mean we all have to fall on our knee and admire him as a god.
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[Disclaimer]English is not my first language so please excuse my mispell and grammar mistakes.[/disclaimer]

-Rhia
[May 10, 2006 1:32:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cmdrzoom

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Re: People In Glass Vessles Shouldn't Throw Cannonballs

From what I've seen from this distance, he seems to be playing it to be the biggest barrelstopper he possibly can. And doing a pretty good job of it.


And no, I don't think he's that other guy. There are a lot of clever barrelstoppers, unfortunately.
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