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nicuss



Joined: Sep 7, 2003
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Solo playing issues and Might calculations Reply to this Post
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Nemo wrote: 
There is no conspiracy to screw the solo player. The AI is the same AI you fight with a PP crew. The might is calculated the same way. Don't jump to silly conclusions. We would tell you if we did something like that.

-Nemo


Ok, lacking a real crew I've done a decent amount of soloing recently and I think I can provide some evidence on why many people find soloing unfun or almost impossible. True that the brigands you take on are usually working against you (by providing ammo and then switching), but there's more to it so read on.

I believe the sea battle might calculations are currently booched. Here's why. If you check my stats you'll see that I'm Able, sometimes Distinguished in sea battle, and that's the only way I can win solo battles. Every once in a while I get bored of soloing and job on other ships. If I job medium/large crews on large sloops or war brigs my sea battle might goes up about every other fight won and I get to be Master or above really quickly. And that spells a lot of trouble. Once I get back on my solo sloop with Master/Renowned in sea battle I get owned hardcore fight after fight after fight until my might drops back to Able/Distinguished, at which point things get back to normal and I can win well over half the fights (the usual reward is between 200-600 + items per fight won). I honestly doubt this happens just because I totally suck at swordfighting compared to the other people I job with, I'm currently Renowned/Grand-Master in sf.

So this experiece makes me believe that sea battle mights go up WAY too fast when beating on large ships, even if your target was weak relative to the boat you're on. I even suspect the absolute might of the defeated vessel is the only thing taken into consideration, which is a very bad thing. To have ratings done properly the might of the other vessel should be divided by the number of human players on your boat when updating your sea battle stats, so your sea battle stat only goes up when you beat a ship overall stronger than yours (rather than just any big ship). Otherwise the stat is booched and green circles aren't gonna be green at all once you board a ship of a different size (e.g. solo sloop).
[Oct 1, 2003 9:15:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Re: Solo playing issues and Might calculations Reply to this Post
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nicuss wrote: 
So this experiece makes me believe that sea battle mights go up WAY too fast when beating on large ships, even if your target was weak relative to the boat you're on. I even suspect the absolute might of the defeated vessel is the only thing taken into consideration, which is a very bad thing. To have ratings done properly the might of the other vessel should be divided by the number of human players on your boat when updating your sea battle stats, so your sea battle stat only goes up when you beat a ship overall stronger than yours (rather than just any big ship). Otherwise the stat is booched and green circles aren't gonna be green at all once you board a ship of a different size (e.g. solo sloop).

The might calculation already takes into account how many players are on each vessel. You seem to think the might calculation is both much simpler and much more complicated than it is. I'll mention it to Peghead that there is misunderstanding about how might is figured.

nicuss wrote: 
I believe the sea battle might calculations are currently booched. Here's why. If you check my stats you'll see that I'm Able, sometimes Distinguished in sea battle, and that's the only way I can win solo battles. Every once in a while I get bored of soloing and job on other ships. If I job medium/large crews on large sloops or war brigs my sea battle might goes up about every other fight won and I get to be Master or above really quickly. And that spells a lot of trouble. Once I get back on my solo sloop with Master/Renowned in sea battle I get owned hardcore fight after fight after fight until my might drops back to Able/Distinguished, at which point things get back to normal and I can win well over half the fights (the usual reward is between 200-600 + items per fight won). I honestly doubt this happens just because I totally suck at swordfighting compared to the other people I job with, I'm currently Renowned/Grand-Master in sf.

It may not have everything to do with your skill, but it certainly has a whole lot to do with the skill of your mates. I am reasonably sure that the crew you usually pillage with is mostly above "Able." Your swabbies are not. They are, in fact, exactly "Able." This means that you are the crux of the battle with swabbies, but not so with your crewmates.

There is an issue that does seem to affect solo players and weak crews more than others. Most of the data on Sea Battles is clustered at the low end, so the subtlety of might difference isn't fine enough there. Jack has a change for Midnight that should spread the ratings over the whole field.

-Nemo
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[Oct 1, 2003 9:30:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jothmar



Joined: Aug 12, 2003
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Re: Solo playing issues and Might calculations Reply to this Post
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For what its worth I've also noticed the fewer real people I have on my ship the harder it is to win, even again other green to blueish green ships, whether I have any bots on board or not. It may have alot to do with what Nemo said, all the scores being clustered on the bottom, but my guess is that it has more to do with if you have few people and you lose one you're at much larger disadvantage then if you lose one with alot of people on board. With bots they have their big hit, nothing, nothing, nothing, big hit affect (well some times its constant big hits but usually not in my experiance) which will -sometimes- knock you out and some times not. So when theres a big hit it may or may not send the receipiant out but when he does with smaller groups that more likely to lose the battle for your group.
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Kelyon Hawk of Fidelis Bellum
[Oct 1, 2003 9:49:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nicuss



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Re: Solo playing issues and Might calculations Reply to this Post
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Hmm, if that's the case the only other explanation I could see is a miscalculation of swabbie might. Their might could be overestimated by a lot and to compensate for that I have to lose half a dozen fights first (so my might drops back to Able) before I'm provided with equal opponents while solo.

Either way I don't think you can deny there is a problem with the might of a full player ship as opposed to a human/swabbie ship. My sea battle rating has to hover around Master on medium/large player ships and around Able on solo sloops in order to get equal opponents. Something's not right there and I doubt it's just me.
[Oct 1, 2003 9:55:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Re: Solo playing issues and Might calculations Reply to this Post
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Jothmar wrote: 
For what its worth I've also noticed the fewer real people I have on my ship the harder it is to win, even again other green to blueish green ships, whether I have any bots on board or not.


I should point out that if you have no players on board you should not use less swabbies than you automatically receive. Your might factors them in whether they are there or not. This is to prevent traders from being so easy they are blue to everyone and thus unattackable.

-Nemo
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[Oct 1, 2003 10:15:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Guillaume



Joined: Sep 24, 2003
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Re: Solo playing issues and Might calculations Reply to this Post
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just my 2poe...recently i did a whole night solo pillaging on a small sloop...me and three npc's sailing away...i must have had at least 25 sea battles that night and won every one, some with 6 or 7 opponents... i haven't noticed any problems with the soling that have been mentioned...
[Oct 1, 2003 11:02:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jothmar



Joined: Aug 12, 2003
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Re: Solo playing issues and Might calculations Reply to this Post
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Aye Nemo, I was meaning if I have four real people on me ship its still more difficult to win then with seven real people on me ship in a green on green fight. Doesn't matter much if you lose one out of seven matters alot more if you lose one out of four.
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Kelyon Hawk of Fidelis Bellum
[Oct 2, 2003 1:06:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Squidbeard

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Fewer swabbies, mate -- not less ;-) Reply to this Post
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Nemo wrote: 
I am reasonably sure that the crew you usually pillage with is mostly above "Able." Your swabbies are not. They are, in fact, exactly "Able."

I would like to ask for a bit of clarification, if I may:

When hiring swabbies, their sail/carp/bilge ratings are always set to Able, but their drinking and swordfighting skills vary. Can one hire good or bad swordfighters, or are they all Able in drinking and swordfighting as well? If the latter, then we have a bug to report...

Back on topic: I'm still on the "it ain't broke" side of the argument. The ring colors seem accurate to me most of the time. Sure, I get into some one-sided (in either direction) battles sometimes, but the uncertainty adds to the excitement, IMHO.

(Incidentally, three swabbies and I got jumped last night by a ship with two humans and two swabbies. 'Twas a near thing, but we beat them. Whatever 'cheating' my swabbies were doing -- don't change it!)

--Sq
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Squid
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[Oct 2, 2003 2:27:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://looterati.goldfish.org [Link]  Go to top 
nicuss



Joined: Sep 7, 2003
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Re: Solo playing issues and Might calculations Reply to this Post
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Guillaume wrote: 
...i must have had at least 25 sea battles that night and won every one, some with 6 or 7 opponents... i haven't noticed any problems with the soling that have been mentioned...


Your sea battle rating is Able right now. As I said, I have no problems soloing with that rating either. The problem is that if I do any pillaging on a war brig my rating shoots to Master or above and then I get owned hardcore when I switch back to solo (for the first few fights only). That's happened several times so far.
[Oct 2, 2003 2:36:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Re: Fewer swabbies, mate -- not less ;-) Reply to this Post
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Squidbeard wrote: 
Nemo wrote: 
I am reasonably sure that the crew you usually pillage with is mostly above "Able." Your swabbies are not. They are, in fact, exactly "Able."

I would like to ask for a bit of clarification, if I may:

When hiring swabbies, their sail/carp/bilge ratings are always set to Able, but their drinking and swordfighting skills vary. Can one hire good or bad swordfighters, or are they all Able in drinking and swordfighting as well? If the latter, then we have a bug to report...


They are all the same "Able" numeric rank level. For a while you could play rated games against them, thus moving their adjective rank around. Now they no longer change adjective rank, nor can you play rated games against them. Some may still have the skewed adjective rank they had before, but in Midnight they will all claim the same rank, which is their exact, carbon-copy, across-the-board rank of "Able."

To answer your question (and it had been answered before, back when they did jump their adjectives around) regardless of what rank your swabbies claim to have, they are all exactly average.

-Nemo
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[Oct 2, 2003 2:39:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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