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Fannon

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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Thanks for posting the link, Forever! The shipyard misses the design ships, but that's quite easy to fix with Tectyl's update :)


I spent a solid 5 minutes considering updating the shipyard page for all the missing ships then decided "screw shipyards". :P I was mostly exhausted after overhauling the furnisher page, so you can blame furnishers for that decision.

I don't know anything about Linux based systems, I don't use a Linux system, and since I updated it largely for Forever out of the kindness of my heart, I didn't bother to find anyone with a Linux system to test it on and figure out what works and what doesn't. I can assure you that the spreadsheet works just fine in both Mac and PC excel (though the sample size is limited solely to my computer and Forevever's computer). *shrugs*
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[Sep 18, 2014 12:32:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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I don't know anything about Linux based systems,

Just to be clear, I really don't care if it works on linux or not, it is just that can not test it. I know that other people find the spread sheet useful, so I'm happy to host it. (I have my own perl scripts that do everything that the shop tool spread sheet does, but since I wrote them to do what I want, it does things better for me. besides, writing the system was part of the fun.)
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Sep 18, 2014 1:24:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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You don't need anyone with a Linux system to test it for you, all you need to do is download LibreOffice for the OS of your choice and test it yourself.

LibreOffice is somewhat Excel-compatible but clearly not 100%-formula compatible. If there were a way to make a spreadsheet work in both Excel and Calc, that would be great, but I'm not holding my breath or doing it myself.
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Retired as of August 2015.
2 Timothy 4:7
[Sep 18, 2014 7:09:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Scrappyilse

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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Quick question about the Cost/order and the Charged price:
I noticed the Cost/order does calculate rent recovery (which seems very logical), but the Charged price, doesn't calculate rent recovery. Why is that?

To me it would seem logical to also put a rent recovery in the charged price. After all, otherwise it all should come from the difference between the buy price and the use cost of the commods and the labor.

Or am I thinking too complicated? (which could easily happen in my case :grin: )
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~regards, Ilse~
Aye, me pirate's life is wonderful!
Obsidian Ocean:
Scrapper
[Sep 19, 2014 6:42:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://ilsemul.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Forevever

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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Quick question about the Cost/order and the Charged price:
I noticed the Cost/order does calculate rent recovery (which seems very logical), but the Charged price, doesn't calculate rent recovery. Why is that?

To me it would seem logical to also put a rent recovery in the charged price. After all, otherwise it all should come from the difference between the buy price and the use cost of the commods and the labor.

Or am I thinking too complicated? (which could easily happen in my case :grin: )


I never even considered the cost of rent will be worked into the pricing... I guess cause rent is so cheap on Cerulean it never occurred to me....

As far as the "charged price" - that should match whatever it is to order from you. Lets say you want to buy a Muffin Hat - go to yer shoppe, put in ye colors, and the price that shows for your shoppe, should match the "charged price" on the sheet when you also select the appropriate colors there. I've tested this.

I don't see why that should be affected by rent.

--------------------


I did update the wiki with the hosted file - I "assumed" that Wrs name is Algol and gave special thanks - if this is wrong, please go change it.

I will poke Fannon and see if she wants to update the changelog - otherwise I'm done with this. I got a version that works for me and I AM STUPID HAPPY about it.

Mad love Fannon!!!
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Forevever and Foreverchaos
Cerulean and Meridian
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Forevever at Sep 19, 2014 9:21:16 PM]
[Sep 19, 2014 9:06:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    forevever [Link]  Go to top 
Scrappyilse

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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Quick question about the Cost/order and the Charged price:
I noticed the Cost/order does calculate rent recovery (which seems very logical), but the Charged price, doesn't calculate rent recovery. Why is that?

To me it would seem logical to also put a rent recovery in the charged price. After all, otherwise it all should come from the difference between the buy price and the use cost of the commods and the labor.

Or am I thinking too complicated? (which could easily happen in my case :grin: )


I never even considered the cost of rent will be worked into the pricing... I guess cause rent is so cheap on Cerulean it never occurred to me....

As far as the "charged price" - that should match whatever it is to order from you. Lets say you want to buy a Muffin Hat - go to yer shoppe, put in ye colors, and the price that shows for your shoppe, should match the "charged price" on the sheet when you also select the appropriate colors there. I've tested this.

I don't see why that should be affected by rent.

Ah, I thought the advertised price should match with the price you see in the order window. I guess that was wrong :)

It's been several years since I managed a stall and checked everything with this tool. I'm slowly getting my bearings again with the management of a stall of a crewbie, but sometimes I don't immediately recognize things.

Thanks for the help!

Thanks!
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~regards, Ilse~
Aye, me pirate's life is wonderful!
Obsidian Ocean:
Scrapper
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wrs1864b

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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I never even considered the cost of rent will be worked into the pricing... I guess cause rent is so cheap on Cerulean it never occurred to me....

I would recommend at least checking how much the rent changes things, it can often make a very significant difference on your profits and can even turn what appears to be a profit into a loss. Yeah, the difference in your total "cost price" won't change much, but your profit is usually very small compared with the overall cost. Simply being on a low rent island isn't as important as how many sales you have. The rent can vary by at most a factor of 8 (25% for an island with 0 population and 0% tax slider to 200% for an island over 250 population and 100% tax slider), but the number of sales can easily vary by more than a factor of 100.

Many shopkeepers use their labor markup to help factor in the rent. Say you have a rent of 700PoE/week and typically use 10 labor hours per day. Then if you mark up your labor by 10PoE, then you can cover rent (7*10*10 = 700). If you do 100 labor hours per day, then you only need a 1PoE markup to cover rent.

If you do factor in rent as a cost, make sure you realize that making a product that is a "loss" after rent is still better than not making anything at all. For example, my stores have small losses for things like whisk potions, cannonballs, regular sloops, etc. when I factor in rent. However, they help keep my stores busy and keep my employees happy. I make my real profit elsewhere.

--------------------

 
I did update the wiki with the hosted file - I "assumed" that Wrs name is Algol and gave special thanks - if this is wrong, please go change it.

The yppedia changes look great to me. If there is an update to the spread sheet, you may need to poke me via a PM or a /tell to make sure I upload the newest copy.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Sep 20, 2014 8:37:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scrappyilse

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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Aye, the shoptool does calculate rent based on labor hours indeed in the cost/order like you suggest Algol, but not in the charged price. That's without the rent recovery. That's why I was asking. I had expected the rentrecovery to be in the charged costs too. But I guess it doesn't need to be in the charged price, since the profit is calculated:
Charged - Cost + adjustment
So I guess it's covered nonetheless. Just to clarify:

Cost/order:
(commods * buy price) + (labor * wage) + Rent recovery per labor hour

Charged price:
(Commods * use price) + (labor * use cost)
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~regards, Ilse~
Aye, me pirate's life is wonderful!
Obsidian Ocean:
Scrapper
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Scrappyilse at Sep 20, 2014 1:59:34 PM]
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wrs1864b

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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Cost/order:
(commods * buy price) + (labor * wage) + Rent recovery per labor hour

Charged price:
(Commods * use price) + (labor * use cost)

I may be wrong, I don't use the spread sheet, but I would expect it to be:

Cost/order:
(commods * buy price) + (labor * wage) + sales tax + Rent recovery (labor hour based)

Charged price:
(Commods * use price) + (labor * use cost) + sales tax + prod price adj

In my system, the product price adjustment is ignore if it represents over half the price. In those cases, I'm using the prod adj to highly discourage outside orders.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Sep 20, 2014 2:20:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scrappyilse

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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Cost/order:
(commods * buy price) + (labor * wage) + Rent recovery per labor hour

Charged price:
(Commods * use price) + (labor * use cost)

I may be wrong, I don't use the spread sheet, but I would expect it to be:

Cost/order:
(commods * buy price) + (labor * wage) + sales tax + Rent recovery (labor hour based)

Charged price:
(Commods * use price) + (labor * use cost) + sales tax + prod price adj

In my system, the product price adjustment is ignore if it represents over half the price. In those cases, I'm using the prod adj to highly discourage outside orders.

Thanks for your comments, Algol!

The shopsheet doesn't include the taxes in the cost/order or the charged price. It calculates the taxes in the advertised price though (Charged price +taxes + adjustment).

Weirdly enough, the profit thus seems to ignore the taxes (Charged price - (cost/order) + adjustment), if I see it correctly... Hmmmm... I'll have to think about this. Perhaps I'll set it up like you said. Then the profit calculations should also be more accurate, I think. Or am I seeing things wrong?
----------------------------------------
~regards, Ilse~
Aye, me pirate's life is wonderful!
Obsidian Ocean:
Scrapper
[Sep 21, 2014 7:12:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://ilsemul.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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The shopsheet doesn't include the taxes in the cost/order or the charged price. It calculates the taxes in the advertised price though (Charged price +taxes + adjustment).

Weirdly enough, the profit thus seems to ignore the taxes (Charged price - (cost/order) + adjustment), if I see it correctly... Hmmmm... I'll have to think about this. Perhaps I'll set it up like you said. Then the profit calculations should also be more accurate, I think. Or am I seeing things wrong?

There are a lot of different accounting terms with very slightly different definitions and terms that people use that have even looser definitions. How sales tax in YPP should be accounted for is debatable. The shop tool spread sheet appears to be using more terms than I use, I don't know what exactly their definitions are.

The important numbers are:

* The price that people see on the "order product" screen. Your accounting system should display and it should match what is in the game so that you can make sure your accounting system is configured correctly.

* The profit should not include the sales tax since it doesn't go to the store, you don't make any profit off of it.

I'm sure the shop tool correctly excludes the sales tax from the profit, it would be far to large a difference to be overlooked. Whether the sales tax is include in other numbers isn't as important.

How the product price adjustment should be accounted for is also debatable. Sometimes it should be include in the profit, sometimes it shouldn't. It should always be included in cases where people actually buy from you, since the game charges the customer and the prod adj is giving to the stores coffers. For orders purchased by the owner/manage, there are times when you might not want to include the prod adj.

How the shop tool deals with the prod adj is important for you to know/understand, but I don't know how the shop tool does it.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Sep 21, 2014 8:11:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
lord_oll

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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Is the Shop tool still updated?
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Crimson Sloop Races!


Okaw on Hunter and Crimson
Darkollie on Cobalt
Okaw or Darkollie on the other oceans when I occasionally visit.
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blyndpew

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Re: The Shop Tool Reply to this Post
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Is the Shop tool still updated?


I think I can guess why you are asking.

To add Obsidian:

Make a copy of another ocean tab and name it Obsidian. Assuming that Obsidian is a dub ocean, make sure you coy a dub ocean.
In the Title tab unhide column A, move the version number down by one cell and add Obsidian above it
Check that the version number cell is still the versionNum named-range
Go to the Formulas ribbon and open the Defined-Names->Name Manager. Edit the "Oceans" named-range to include Obsidian.

Now go to the Data ribbon and open the Connections->Connections manager.
You should see some extra connections (probably 81 and 91). Edit those (Properties->Definition->Edit Query->Address) and replace the ocean name with "obsidian" in the query URL. Note that you don't have this tool in Excel Mac 2011 (Which is what I started to do this in. I think you need a Windows version)

You should be able to import now, but it is likely that the Tax-Rates info in the Obsidian tab will end up in a new column between the taxes and dub costs. You need to move that to the bottom of columns AB (and higher than row 200) and then shift the Dub-costs to be in columns EF (this is so that a Vlookup in the hidden columns A-E in each shoppe type can find the data)


For extra credit you can make the "Expand Financial" and "Expand Labor" buttons on each Shoppe Tab work: Customise the Ribbon to show the "Developer" ribbon ( if you have not already done so.) and open the VBA Editor. Copy the Command_Button1_Click and Command_Button2_Click Subs from each shoppe tab code page in to a new Module. Rename each Sub to indicate which Shoppe it belongs to (as they all have the same name until you do that, and that won't work) and change them from Private Sub to plain ordinary Sub. Then right-click on the butans in each Shoppe tab and "Assign Macro". CommandButton 1 is/was Financials and 2 is/was Labour in each case.
You will need to unprotect each sheet (right-click on the tab at the bottom) to do this, and then re-protect them afterwards)
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Blyndpew/Albion
Not even an authorised spokesman for Me
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by blyndpew at Jul 26, 2017 3:57:34 AM]
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