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pepsidave14

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Distillery: don't generate spices in end rows as they can block moves Reply to this Post
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You can't do anything about that piece, and it can break a CC chain. Is there any kind of way this can be fixed?

I think this is kind of similar to being stuck in a rock circle at the beginning of a sea battle.. (which was fixed?)


Edited the post topic to be more specific. - Faulkston
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Faulkston at Mar 26, 2009 7:19:48 PM]
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Whitefire

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cyoot piggy!

Yes you are!

wes wo warr!

ajzooba zjooba zjooba!
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Heygabe

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Whitefire has lost his mind.

However, I will add that I hate that the curve is so high on Distil. Perfection shouldn't be the goal to provide expert. It makes me sad to have to work that hard.

I like to just press the "win" button, myself.
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Pianoman1125

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The curve has gone so high becuase the puzzle has become so easy. Anything less than a CC^5 and it won't be expert. You need at least a CC^8 for an incred (probably closer to 9) and these really aren't all that hard to accomplish.


However, to the original post, yeah, this happens occasionally to me. I've also seen other configurations of spice that make it impossible to move the piece. I think theoretically this should be considered a bug since it renders the ability of the player to puzzle that line ineffective.
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sweetnessc

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Yep, this really really sucks. Especially when it comes right around cc7 so that you can't possibly not start sending up ccs but it messes up any chance you have at an incred.
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Heygabe

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The curve has gone so high becuase the puzzle has become so easy. Anything less than a CC^5 and it won't be expert. You need at least a CC^8 for an incred (probably closer to 9) and these really aren't all that hard to accomplish.


You forget to add: If you play the puzzle aiming for perfection.

I think the puzzle is broken, not becuase sometimes you can't make it perfect, but becuase perfect is the only way you can play.

Distilling needs some kind of a minor overhaul so that it can be fun without having a "maximum" or "optimal" performance. Perhaps some kind of third peice that would turn two black peices into clears, or a special peice that rescues a burnt peice.

The game needs something that adds the level of depth that the rest of the puzzles have. Distilling is the only game in the Y!PP package that truely plays like a chore.
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Whitefire

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Cyoot piggy.
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char

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I find it hard enough getting all CC's not in a row. And I get, with no burns, a excellent Skilled labor.
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Pianoman1125

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You forget to add: If you play the puzzle aiming for perfection.

I think the puzzle is broken, not becuase sometimes you can't make it perfect, but becuase perfect is the only way you can play.



I agree with that for the most part. However, despite what I said in my previous post regarding providing expert labor and garnering an incredible, it is still possible to get good, fine, or excellent ratings without perfecting your technique. Complete perfection of technique would be a CC^12, finishing the puzzle in one straight line of crystal clears. However, 2 sets of CC^6 give excellent, numerous sets of CC^2's give good (possibly excellent depending on their spice content) and other such combinations of CC's and smooth columns give other such combinations of ratings. As with any puzzle in this game, practice and mastery are necessary to achieve a high rating yet lower levels of skill still finish the puzzle and accomplish labor. I don't necessarily think the puzzle is broken or needs to be modified but if it were it would be just one more aspect of the game to tackle.
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[Sep 23, 2005 11:18:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Pianoman1125    Your average cupcake is just not as tasty. [Link]  Go to top 
Piplicus_BNO

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The curve has gone so high becuase the puzzle has become so easy.


For you and others, it has.

It's due to the large numbers of incredible puzzlers puzzling, which widens the gap and keeps raising the bar for an incredible.
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zim_was_here

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The curve has gone so high becuase the puzzle has become so easy.


For you and others, it has.

It's due to the large numbers of incredible puzzlers puzzling, which widens the gap and keeps raising the bar for an incredible.


Let me just say, I have been playin and trying at that stupid puzzle for at least 9 months I have never ever ever ever been alble to get expert labour. It is really annoying, Distilling and navagation are the two hardest for me. I understand Navagation because it has a great effect on the whole ship but Distilling? I abosultly love the puzzle I just can't seem to get any where in it.


My solution is that spicies can be moved up and down in the same row, in other words moved up and down the Y axis and not the X.
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Pianoman1125

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My solution is that spicies can be moved up and down in the same row, in other words moved up and down the Y axis and not the X.


This would not make the puzzle any easier. With the exception of the example originally posted in this thread, where a set or group of spice make moving a piece impossible, the spice can be bypassed with a simple flick of the pieces up and around the piece of spice. Being able to move the spice up and down might make this a split second faster but in all likelyhood would not allow you to improve up to expert.

/edit becuase upon a re-read, that last sentence came off rather rude. What I would like to mean is, allowing the spice to move up and down would not make a major difference in the puzzle and everyone's ability to do it. I think the only way to improve on this puzzle is to practice a lot and take a different look on it than you have been.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Pianoman1125 at Sep 24, 2005 9:31:15 PM]
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KingGoob

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My solution is that spicies can be moved up and down in the same row, in other words moved up and down the Y axis and not the X.


This would not make the puzzle any easier. With the exception of the example originally posted in this thread, where a set or group of spice make moving a piece impossible, the spice can be bypassed with a simple flick of the pieces up and around the piece of spice. Being able to move the spice up and down might make this a split second faster but in all likelyhood would not allow you to improve up to expert.

/edit becuase upon a re-read, that last sentence came off rather rude. What I would like to mean is, allowing the spice to move up and down would not make a major difference in the puzzle and everyone's ability to do it. I think the only way to improve on this puzzle is to practice a lot and take a different look on it than you have been.


I don't think he's trying to make the puzzle easier, he's offering a solution for the problem this thread was created to address. However, I'd prefer spice to remain stationary as well. Just don't allow them to show up in the top or bottom spot in any column, that'd fix it right? You could also just make it true in the smaller columns, but that seems like more work to code.
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TheRack

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Just don't allow them to show up in the top or bottom spot in any column, that'd fix it right? You could also just make it true in the smaller columns, but that seems like more work to code.


No it would not... Although its highly unlikely, if a piece is surronded by spice (2 spice on either side) it is unmovable. There are also some patterns which are imposible to move out of.
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ssandv



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Making spice able to move up or down would actually make the problem *worse*, as now it would purely be a matter of people's ability to make cc12s, instead of having to occasionally make a 9 or 10 due to a rough run of spice. All someone would have to do to deal with spice if it was vertically movable would be slam it all to one side, drag stuff around it, then slam it back to the other side once the area behind it was filled with dark pieces. It would completely eliminate the negative effects of spice, just about.
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TheRack

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Making spice able to move up or down would actually make the problem *worse*, as now it would purely be a matter of people's ability to make cc12s, instead of having to occasionally make a 9 or 10 due to a rough run of spice. All someone would have to do to deal with spice if it was vertically movable would be slam it all to one side, drag stuff around it, then slam it back to the other side once the area behind it was filled with dark pieces. It would completely eliminate the negative effects of spice, just about.


Just thinking aloud, would it be a positive or negative if you could move the spice, but it only swaped for a yellow, and moving a spice had the same effect of clicking the right button? Would make for an interesting game play variation, giving players the oppotunity to move a spice around for extra bonus eg make it posible to never waste a spice however it would come with the risk of sending the rows faster than you could handle.

Creates a bit of variation at the top end... Your legendary and lower end Ult players can hit CC^11/12 often enough... Your top level solid CC^12ers would be able to do it without wasting spice either.
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Vurogj

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Also thinkin' out loud. Spice is better than white, aye? The penalty fer burnin' white is burnt pieces. There's no (significant) penalty fer burnin' spice. So how about 1 burnt spice = 1 burnt piece. This is double the white burn penalty, and would give players more to think about.

EDIT : Need a spellchecker.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Vurogj at Sep 26, 2005 7:08:40 AM]
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Pianoman1125

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But moveable spice would completely defeat the purpose that the spice was included in the game for in the first place. It is supposed to be an obstacle that you are required to move around. Allowing it to be moved takes away that obstacle and in my opinion would make the puzzle curve for getting an incred even higher.
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pepsidave14

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Aye, I don't really want spice to be changed as far as gameplay goes. Just add some programming like "if there's some spice in column x, don't put spice in column x + 2." That would solve most if not all of the problems, though it could make the puzzle easier in general.

Just throwing ideas out. :p
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by pepsidave14 at Sep 26, 2005 4:35:05 PM]
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Pianoman1125

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Well I assume that at current the placement of spice is completely random and there are no coded limitations on where it can be placed. I once had an entire column of spice from top to bottom so there's no code preventing oddities like that. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to program it not to make moves impossible. That's quite a few circumstances that would have to be taken into account when they make the final changes. I am also not a programmer so it may be exceedingly easy and I just don't know it.
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ihope127



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Well I assume that at current the placement of spice is completely random and there are no coded limitations on where it can be placed. I once had an entire column of spice from top to bottom so there's no code preventing oddities like that. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to program it not to make moves impossible. That's quite a few circumstances that would have to be taken into account when they make the final changes. I am also not a programmer so it may be exceedingly easy and I just don't know it.


if row_two_behind contains spice
generate_no_spices
else
generate_random_spices

Heh.
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Pianoman1125

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Well I said I wasn't a programmer. :p

But yes, that does makes sense.
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Vurogj

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I once had an entire column of spice from top to bottom so there's no code preventing oddities like that.


And you DIDN'T screenie it?

/me weeps.
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Pianoman1125

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I once had an entire column of spice from top to bottom so there's no code preventing oddities like that.


And you DIDN'T screenie it?

/me weeps.



My apologies, I do wish I had. This was when I was still a newbie to the game and probably didn't know how to take a screenie. If I remember correctly, I took that marvelous column of spice and only ended up with a good on the puzzle.
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The game needs something that adds the level of depth that the rest of the puzzles have. Distilling is the only game in the Y!PP package that truely plays like a chore.


I actually really enjoy Distilling. However..

I always thought having special 'combos' and 'formulas' that involve mixing in burnt pieces, brown pieces, and whites for extra points.

Meaning - Sure, a line with all clears is good.

But a series of lines, in a particular formation, containing a certain amount of burnt pieces, brown, and whites, scores BETTER.
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There's a thread about more high-end differentiation here from two weeks ago, in which Nemo reassuringly said:
Nemo wrote: 
I agree that Distilling needs more high-end differentiation.


Presumably the stuck-between-spice problem will get fixed at the same time as the differentiation problem.

What? Differentiation problem?! Argh! </flashback>
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Mmm.. calculus and distilling combined into one?

(d/dCC) CC^12 = 12 CC^11.


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[Edit 2 times, last edit by pepsidave14 at Sep 27, 2005 12:31:14 PM]
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*Bumpity*

There was a lot of chatter back and forth in this thread about high-end distilling, but going back to the OP's original complaint/peev, I'm really sick of this:


I mean seriously, sure we can work around it and just have a break in the CC's, but for someone who personally hates getting less than a CC^10, it's just so frustrating to be limited in this way.
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rsenkrantz

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Let me just say, I have been playin and trying at that stupid puzzle for at least 9 months I have never ever ever ever been alble to get expert labour. It is really annoying, Distilling and navagation are the two hardest for me. I understand Navagation because it has a great effect on the whole ship but Distilling? I abosultly love the puzzle I just can't seem to get any where in it.


My solution is that spicies can be moved up and down in the same row, in other words moved up and down the Y axis and not the X.


I have a feeling being able to move the spices up and down would make the puzzle way too easy. What if you could move spices to any adjoining space? Like, when you click on a spice, it highlights all the pieces one spot away from its starting position, and you can move them 1 space up or over one time.

It took me about two weeks of practice to get to legendary AFTER watching quintalis' videos and reading the tutorials. The bar for providing expert labor is way too high. Last time I tried, 3 CC^4ths with no burns was enough to get your standing up to renowned and at least get an expert labor job. I can get incredibles with a CC^7 and a CC^5 nearly every time, as long as there are no burns and a couple of spices. Much like gunning, doing very well at distilling is about hand speed and knowing a few helpful tricks.

What I can't figure out is you people who are so good at carpentry. Whenever I get the puzzle hot, I suddenly get a run of absolute crap pieces (8 Z pieces in a row last night).
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TheRack

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I can get incredibles with a CC^7 and a CC^5 nearly every time, as long as there are no burns and a couple of spices.

He, I can only dream. Over on midnight yonder, CC^10 & CC^2 will not guarantee you an incred.
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Period. End of story.

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