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Nielsthree



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Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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Today, the notice board during blockades favour the side that pays the least amount of poe of all contenders. Yes, you read that right, offers that pay less poe get shown above those that pay more.

Before people discovered this and started using this fact for their own advantage, in case of evenly-paid cades, the top of the notice board was reserved for those who were quick and knew what they were doing. Now, however, flags who are slower have discovered that they can simply offer 9998 vs 9999, and get the top spots on the notice board. This has caused underbidding wars in the last year or so, with both sides abusing this nonsensical mechanic to just try and grab the top spots on the notice board, with last weekend the pay shuffling anywhere between 9900 and 9999.

Why does this matter, though? While it's undeniable that a significant portion of jobbers are jobbing for their own flag, their allies and those they align themselves with. But another significant portion do not care about politics, and just join for the money. It is then a tad surprising that the game offers the lower paid offers, first. Especially people who play on smaller screens, often don't see the actual pay offered by a side, and just job for whoever is on top of the list. For those people, it would make much more sense for the pay to be *descending*. Show them jobs paying 9999 before jobs paying 9000.

My second issue is that it takes away an advantage I myself have enjoyed for several years now. Getting notice board priority because of how some of the flags I've worked with are organized is a great reward for the extra effort put in. The notice board, when the pays are tied, favour those ships that have been on the notice board longer. Thus, flags who have people who are well-prepared get a slight advantage over their opponents. It's an extra bit where land staff on blockade teams can distinguish themselves versus the opponents, which gets nullified by the underbidding meta that is out there right now.

So I simply propose: use common sense and sort the blockade offers the same as pillage offers - the best pay schemes for the jobber first. Show 9999 before 6000. Because that's what the jobber wants in the extreme examples, and reward the more organized land teams by showing 9999 above 9998. Don't let underbidding become a constant factor in blockades. Let jobbers job at 9999 and know they will be paid, if they puzzle averagely, 9999 poe per segment. That did not happen on Admiral last weekend, and that's a shame.

Personally, while admitting my own bias, I truly do not understand why it does not work the way I am suggesting already. It makes very, very little sense to me. But when talking to the OMs, they suggest I post this here. I'd love to hear from all people on this, even those who have used this mechanic and are in favour of it.

See you on the blockade board!
[Nov 18, 2019 5:02:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
soulbearer



Joined: Jul 6, 2017
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Re: Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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Idk why this isnt already a thing , i wouldnt mind that this gets a rework


PERFECTO
[Nov 18, 2019 5:13:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
missjudithan

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Re: Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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Niels brings up several valid points regarding this manipulation.

I've watched this tactic be abused for the better part of this year, and despite countless petitions of some pirates, it's been ignored. It's quite sad that the way flags have to compete for jobbers these days is to go back on their word of max pay in an effort to manipulate a mechanic that shouldn't be an option. This causes jobber confusion when pay is changed every 10 seconds during a blockade (well, during the interludes), as well as an extra headache on the royal teams. It hardly seems to be in the favor of anyone except for the team that is slower, less organized, and more deceitful in their strategies. It surely doesn't benefit the jobbers or the teams who deserve the top of the notice board for their consistency, attention to detail, and coordination.

Question: Has this been tested for all of the other blockade offer options (e.g. elite/even/jobber's delight/etc.)? Is it organized in a similar manner for each, or is it truly a bug with the elite/jobber's delight option?
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[Nov 18, 2019 6:07:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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Ms judithan is right, people will manipulate anyway possible just to get more jobbers since they win blockades, too bad no developer can fix this issue sadly as they've given up just like Obsidian was. Underpay war bidding I thought 9999 was bad enough but I guess. I am all for lower pay cades since 9999 is ridiculous anyway only people that can consistently do it if they have a big credit card or just RMT. Mostly commonly RMT, I can name a few flags active on the blockade scene that do it (generally when people drop Adrimal which is not very often). But if it was me this should be fixed or can try an event cade and test it is the best option.
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Competitions are now over. boohoo

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[Nov 18, 2019 8:03:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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Re: Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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I'm... not sure I see an issue here. So if a flag pays 1 poe less, their job listing gets flipped to the top? Big deal! Perhaps the jobbers should be paying enough attention when they click to see how much is actually being paid (they're supposed to do this already, right?)

It seems like a minimal kind of advantage and I don't understand why anyone would cry out for developer time to be spent on "fixing" this. It ain't broke!
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[Nov 18, 2019 11:18:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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I'm... not sure I see an issue here. So if a flag pays 1 poe less, their job listing gets flipped to the top? Big deal! Perhaps the jobbers should be paying enough attention when they click to see how much is actually being paid (they're supposed to do this already, right?)

It seems like a minimal kind of advantage and I don't understand why anyone would cry out for developer time to be spent on "fixing" this. It ain't broke!


It is an issue mate, thats correct flipped to the top! ooo Big deal ok man, how about you do some blockades and underpay others and you'll see how frustrating it is. Generally the top of the Noticeboard should be whoever puts their offer up first not for lowest pay, in a way thats scamming jobbers.
If a flag is unorganised against a flag who does 9998 to 9900 then they could have the jobber advantage whatever number is similar to 10k a seg. It's broke!
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Competitions are now over. boohoo

Yumisa is hawt. Thanks for avvie

A fellow victim of neglect, from YPP.
[Nov 19, 2019 3:27:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Pasteyman

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Re: Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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Ahoy Nielsone, Nielstwo, Nielsthree and others,

I appreciate your concern for the jobber having options on the blockade board, which is why I'm assuming you put yourself on there so many times in order to block out the other flags offers.

Just like yourself, Grow Up's land team eagerly awaits the weekend for that moment where we can grab top of the board. Thanks to the lowering pay EXPLOIT we now have that moment over and over again.

I agree with your proposal to make the blockade board similar to the pillage board and make each flag have one offer. Or perharps an ABABAB system.

Thank you for making it clear to all jobbers in global that they would earn 2 poe less if they jobbed for us. We did make it up in tops pay though, so I think that may have swayed a few.

**Disclaimer: if anyone was not paid 2 poe promised by GU over the weekend, please see any royal for compensation.


Cheers,
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Pasteyman
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Pasteyman at Nov 19, 2019 6:48:19 AM]
[Nov 19, 2019 6:47:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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Re: Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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You post this as though the few jobbers who still play at weekends are unable to determine for themselves whether 9,999 is a greater number than 9,998. You may be pleased to learn that clicking on the column headings will reverse the ordering for the rows in the table. You can really stick it to the opposition who use this strategy by sorting the table in descending order instead.

 
Before people discovered this and started using this fact for their own advantage, in case of evenly-paid cades, the top of the notice board was reserved for those who were quick and knew what they were doing.


The default ordering of job offers has been known for as long as I've played this game. It just hasn't been raised as an issue before because who honestly cares about a 0.01% difference in pay? For those who do think it makes a difference, they just flip the ordering instead with the aforementioned technique.

Now if you wanted to raise issues about people who strategically manipulate the noticeboard to ensure their job offer is always at the top throughout an entire blockade (in the event of even pay), even when the ship the offer is for isn't actually going to be entering the blockade due to being a placeholder, I'd understand why you're so upset about the mechanics behind the noticeboard.
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[Nov 20, 2019 5:23:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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What else is very annoying for newer potential players if we have any lmao, is about 20 jobber offers on the NB where only 1 island is blockaded makes it very confusing for players to job on the ship with players on it trying to find it, its not always the offer that comes up first after a ship or 2 is full I feel this is NB spam.
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Competitions are now over. boohoo

Yumisa is hawt. Thanks for avvie

A fellow victim of neglect, from YPP.
[Nov 20, 2019 10:44:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mari_

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Re: Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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It is a ridiculous that you can lower pay to have to claim a top spot on a board and it absolutely a game mechanic that needs fixing. That being said, so is using an external ran program to enable you to have advantage of having at least the top 6-7 spots minimum which has nothing to do with another teams land staffs ability to get themselves on the NB.

Most players now know who they are jobbing with, the game is long past the point where newer people wont know and will click the one at the top of the board. There needs to be a way of loading more than one ship at once, or the land side of blockades wouldn't work so efficiently, but the board spamming before a cade starts is beyond insane of late and serves very little relevance to where people will choose to job.
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[Nov 21, 2019 12:02:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Why is lower pay in a blockade still an advantage? Reply to this Post
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It is a ridiculous that you can lower pay to have to claim a top spot on a board and it absolutely a game mechanic that needs fixing. That being said, so is using an external ran program to enable you to have advantage of having at least the top 6-7 spots minimum which has nothing to do with another teams land staffs ability to get themselves on the NB.


I agree for the top spot part, external ran program you say? what program is this so the potential devs are aware that they can possible prevent this?

 
Most players now know who they are jobbing with, the game is long past the point where newer people wont know and will click the one at the top of the board. There needs to be a way of loading more than one ship at once, or the land side of blockades wouldn't work so efficiently, but the board spamming before a cade starts is beyond insane of late and serves very little relevance to where people will choose to job.


True people know who pays 9999 and tops others just pay 9999 unless its a BK. There should not be a way to load more than 1 ship at once, it creates confusion and makes a massive hassle for jobbers to go onto the right ship, last blockade I jobbed for a cade that had 10 ships loading for the 1 island, so I was ready to go then jump ship to another ship on the same island. You do not have the playerbase anymore to load 5 brigs at once, if you tried to do that you would probably have 10 jobbers on each brig which is not enough to enter anyway. Go back to basics if there is 2 or more ships loading at same island on the NB, it should be reported so they take those offers down or at least keep the pay locked at the highest amount until the other side pulls.
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Competitions are now over. boohoo

Yumisa is hawt. Thanks for avvie

A fellow victim of neglect, from YPP.
[Nov 21, 2019 3:02:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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