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Filthyjake

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Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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It really hurts the game when it cost over 100k just to get started while people who exploit the markets profit 145k
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Aug 17, 2018 6:03:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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That's not how it works at all. You can be a maker but there may not be a taker. You're assuming those dubs can get sold at that price, that no one will undercut your sell offer.
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[Aug 17, 2018 6:10:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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That's not how it works at all. You can be a maker but there may not be a taker. You're assuming those dubs can get sold at that price, that no one will undercut your sell offer.


Right and the dubs could have been bought at 3k but lets not be foolish there are people who buy and sell dubs for profit. This doesn't help the game to grow at all. I came back a month ago and badges are dusting and these ridiculous prices will just drive me away and its not that I don't have the poe to buy them I just refuse to feed these dub traders profits.

High dub prices influence every part of the economy and they are artificially inflated by some.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Aug 17, 2018 6:25:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Paulisma

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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This phenomenon is also known as the bid-ask spread. It happens in every market that includes large amounts of trading (e.g. NYSE). There?s no point in regulating it.

The main reason of inflating dub prices is not the people who ?artificially? inflate them. The game has way too few poe sinks to cover up for the amount of poe that comes in. If you want to deal with inflating dub prices either bring in more poe sinks or raise the amount of dubs you get per dollar.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Paulisma at Aug 17, 2018 6:45:39 AM]
[Aug 17, 2018 6:39:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Captholland



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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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i don't see the problem here. it happens ever 2 month period. it goes up to 4k. than decreases to about 3k or sometimes lower(depending on promotion boxes).
[Aug 17, 2018 2:39:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Robyns090

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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Your post is essentially asking the game to fix capitalism. This isn’t an exploit it’s how a “free market” works...
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[Aug 18, 2018 12:34:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Laryena1



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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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It makes sense that they're higher than usual:
-More demand for labor than usual.
-Casino WF needing 150 dubs each.
-100's of abandoned WF's that suddenly need to get delivered at OM shoppes.
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Sen
[Aug 18, 2018 1:12:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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Your post is essentially asking the game to fix capitalism. This isn?t an exploit it?s how a ?free market? works...


Most capitalist countries do have regulations on markets and monitor free trade. They control things such as interest rates ect. When the prices have gaps of 50-75-100 poe its clear what is happening.

I am very aware of supply and demand

 
-More demand for labor than usual.
-Casino WF needing 150 dubs each.
-100's of abandoned WF's that suddenly need to get delivered at OM shoppes.


However people are inflating the prices to gouge the players due to the known high demand. Its fine if that is how things are going to be run but know that it doesn't help the game grow. Who does it really hurt the new player or those old salts that know how the market works? Its a form of open scamming in my opinion.

If they can place a max wage on kade pay they can place a max price on the dub market. If they chose to make it 9999 then the game is done as free to play is clearly not unless you want to make it a full time job.

There are ways to fix the gouging if they want to.

Remove the pay cap on Kades there will be a larger demand for poe as kades will be ridiculous and we know the kadders are large dub purchasers.

Put a slider so that all the dub bids can all be seen making it slightly more difficult to artificial inflate the price.

Anyway we can play with the same few players we have but the barrior of entry is way to high for new players even if they come they are not likely to stay as they are the ones most hurt by the high dub prices.

New player comes in finds the game its fun they play for a week or so get in a crew and are told if you have an officer badge and a ship you can be an officer. They realize that it is going to cost them 8 dubs for the O badge, 15 dubs for the sloop delivery.... 23 dubs not so bad they realize they need a sword 33 dubs average pillage battle pays 1k so it will take 3-4 battle wins to earn a dub so about an hour. Just play 33 hours to get the deliver dubs needed. Do they stick around and grind it out? based on the new players I have met or know personally I have found the answer is no they move on.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Aug 18, 2018 3:43:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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-100's of abandoned WF's that suddenly need to get delivered at OM shoppes.

Eh?

I would think that the OMs would simply cancel the WFs in their shops rather than deliver them. If the *do* deliver them, I would think that they would magic up the dubs rather than buy them off the market.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 18, 2018 3:49:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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There literally is no problem. Dubs are worth whatever people will pay for them.
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[Aug 18, 2018 3:49:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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I would think that the OMs would simply cancel the WFs in their shops rather than deliver them. If the *do* deliver them, I would think that they would magic up the dubs rather than buy them off the market


Yes they said you have till the end of the month to deliver or they will cancel them.

So now players the ordered them with out the plans or means to deliver them are scrambling to get the dubs they need to get the ships out.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Aug 18, 2018 4:00:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Grinfish

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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I would think that the OMs would simply cancel the WFs in their shops rather than deliver them. If the *do* deliver them, I would think that they would magic up the dubs rather than buy them off the market


Yes they said you have till the end of the month to deliver or they will cancel them.

So now players the ordered them with out the plans or means to deliver them are scrambling to get the dubs they need to get the ships out.


Well, that's their own dumb fault, and not the doub market. Don't write cheques your booty can't cash.

The doub market is self-regulating - price too high, people won't buy, price too low, watch them go. Simple supply/demand economics. The moment you fix/cap it, you manipulate the market beyond the point where players have domain over their own economy. The caps already in place elsewhere (blockade pay, pillage payouts, table limits) already go far enough to restrain the doub market by proxy.
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[Aug 18, 2018 4:49:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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I tried doing that many years ago. Then we hit a spike in prices, so I sold all my dubs at 1700, but the price never went back down to 1400 for me to rebuy them.

You try a buy-sell split, and you risk getting hosed in the process.
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[Aug 19, 2018 5:22:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Robyns090

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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Most capitalist countries do have regulations on markets and monitor free trade. They control things such as interest rates ect. When the prices have gaps of 50-75-100 poe its clear what is happening.


Interest rates have nothing to do with this....

A majority of capitalism countries don't intervene in the supply and demand of products.....

There really is no problem here.
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[Aug 19, 2018 7:10:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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Most capitalist countries do have regulations on markets and monitor free trade. They control things such as interest rates ect. When the prices have gaps of 50-75-100 poe its clear what is happening.


Interest rates have nothing to do with this....

A majority of capitalism countries don't intervene in the supply and demand of products...

Interest on loans, and other financial products are, uh, products. There isn't a single country in the world that doesn't intervene in the supply and demand of most products. Besides interest rates, there are minimum wages, the FDA, OSHA, the EPA, zoning laws, farm price support, grazing rights of public lands at a fraction of the market value, tariffs, etc.

Back to YPP and the dub exchange, while the players get to choose the exact value of the exchange, the game design sets the range. PoE fountains into the game easier? The price of dubs on the exchange goes up. Gold boxes go on sale? The PoE price of dubs goes up.

The dub market is also inherently unstable. For almost all things, the game requires you to sink dubs in order to sink PoE, so you need to have a reasonable ration of PoE to dubs. If the PoE price of dubs goes up, people who buy dubs with real money must put fewer dubs on the exchange in order to end up with the correct amount of PoE. This causes the exchange to go up more. Some people will start buying dubs with real money instead of the exchange, but a lot of people will just stop playing.

If the exchange rate isn't around 1k PoE per dub, the built in game design ratio of PoE to dubs, GH needs to fix the game.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 20, 2018 4:26:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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Some people will start buying dubs with real money instead of the exchange, but a lot of people will just stop playing.


This is the reality of it, Meridian is a perfect example the Dubs over inflated and the players left to other oceans or games.

Obsidian wouldn't make it with 5k dubs steady people would flock back to Emerald (Seems 50% who came went back to their wealth) if the dubs rise there more will flock to Obsidian or walk away. If nothing is done the cost of dubs will continue to be unstable.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Aug 20, 2018 6:29:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
noworries

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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I never played on doubloon oceans much so I’m probably full of barnacle, but, it seems to me that the high poe cost of doubloons is hitting Grey Havens in the pocket book. If I want 30,000 poe and I can sell doubloons for 3000 each I’m going to need to buy 10. If I can only get 500 for my doubloons I’m going to need to buy 60. I’m sure Grey Havens would rather have me buy 60 doubloons. It would be in Grey Havens' financial interest to regulate the poe cost of doubloons.
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The original Garibaldi on the Midnight Ocean, now on Cerulean.

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[Aug 21, 2018 6:59:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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I never played on doubloon oceans much so I?m probably full of barnacle, but, it seems to me that the high poe cost of doubloons is hitting Grey Havens in the pocket book. If I want 30,000 poe and I can sell doubloons for 3000 each I?m going to need to buy 10. If I can only get 500 for my doubloons I?m going to need to buy 60. I?m sure Grey Havens would rather have me buy 60 doubloons. It would be in Grey Havens' financial interest to regulate the poe cost of doubloons.



I think it's the other way around kind of... getting the PoE to actually order something can be relatively easy, it's getting enough PoE to turn in to doubloons to deliver said item that really adds to the cost. For example on a war brig, 70%ish(?) of the overall cost is actually the doubloon delivery fee if you were buying from a stall.

Similarly, not many people are going to spend $200 on doubloons to pay their blockade jobbers or buy themselves cosmetic items if they're only getting 500 PoE per doubloon.
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[Aug 21, 2018 11:30:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Robyns090

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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Interest on loans, and other financial products are, uh, products. There isn't a single country in the world that doesn't intervene in the supply and demand of most products. Besides interest rates, there are minimum wages, the FDA, OSHA, the EPA, zoning laws, farm price support, grazing rights of public lands at a fraction of the market value, tariffs, etc.


A am referring to physical products that can be purchased in stores rather than what you refer to, as I see that as the best real world equivalent to doub prices. As you cant compare it to currency exchange because their is no currency system like doubs and poe being used simultaneously in one country, that I am aware of. But thank you for talking about useless unrelated information....

 
Back to YPP and the dub exchange, while the players get to choose the exact value of the exchange, the game design sets the range. PoE fountains into the game easier? The price of dubs on the exchange goes up. Gold boxes go on sale? The PoE price of dubs goes up.

The dub market is also inherently unstable. For almost all things, the game requires you to sink dubs in order to sink PoE, so you need to have a reasonable ration of PoE to dubs. If the PoE price of dubs goes up, people who buy dubs with real money must put fewer dubs on the exchange in order to end up with the correct amount of PoE. This causes the exchange to go up more. Some people will start buying dubs with real money instead of the exchange, but a lot of people will just stop playing.

If the exchange rate isn't around 1k PoE per dub, the built in game design ratio of PoE to dubs, GH needs to fix the game.


The solution is pretty obvious, if doubs are too high stop buying them. If demand decreases while supply increases prices will go down.

But like I said earlier, there is no problem here.....
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[Aug 21, 2018 1:43:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ruined_ashes

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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I don't know. Ya'll do make some points but I still see it as a problem as well. Just look at what happened to the Jade ocean.I was there, and after the dubs just got higher and higher, everyone left to the oceans they could afford to play on. With such a small player base at the moment, the dubs do have an impact.
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[Aug 21, 2018 2:04:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Robyns090 wrote: 
 
Interest on loans, and other financial products are, uh, products. There isn't a single country in the world that doesn't intervene in the supply and demand of most products. Besides interest rates, there are minimum wages, the FDA, OSHA, the EPA, zoning laws, farm price support, grazing rights of public lands at a fraction of the market value, tariffs, etc.

A am referring to physical products that can be purchased in stores rather than what you refer to,

Uh, let's see. The FDA controls what food and drugs can be sold. Those are physical items. OSHA controls work environments for people making physical items. Actually, almost everything I mentioned is about physical goods.

But really, the money supply is one of the most heavily controlled commodities. Places like the US, EU, Japan, etc. manage the amount of money very well. Places like Places like Zimbabwe and Venezuela have done a very poor job.

OOO/GH has also done a very poor job. They have made PoE *WAY* to easy to get. This drives up the amount of PoE you need to purchase a dub and as a result, for most products, most of the "cost" of a product is dubs.

Talk to people who still play Opal, Jade or Meridian about whether the exchange rate isn't a problem.

joshuawhelan wrote: 
I think it's the other way around kind of... getting the PoE to actually order something can be relatively easy, it's getting enough PoE to turn in to doubloons to deliver said item that really adds to the cost. For example on a war brig, 70%ish(?) of the overall cost is actually the doubloon delivery fee if you were buying from a stall.

Similarly, not many people are going to spend $200 on doubloons to pay their blockade jobbers or buy themselves cosmetic items if they're only getting 500 PoE per doubloon.

Yes, the problem is that PoE is far too easy to get. People will pay 1 dub for 500 PoE if getting PoE is as hard as it was 10 years ago. Indeed, they sometimes did. The exchange rate was around 1kPoE/dub for a couple of years before OOO started inflating things. Now, as you point out, the commod part of products is almost almost irrelevant. The current game wouldn't change much of you eliminated the recipes.

Yes, if GH cut the PoE fountains back, you wouldn't see 999PoE/seg blockades anymore, but that is another sign of the inflation that the game has had.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 21, 2018 2:15:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
lady_maeror

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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Dubs are inflated for a reason. It's simply that the few players that want to spend real money on this game, are declining. Most of you prefer to buy dubs with poe because you can afford to spend hours playing a game to make said poe. As for Jake and his plea to Pika, we all had an email response a few months back from GH in regards to the games direction. It was the sloppiest, most bullcrap email I have ever read and to be honest, many of us dub buyers decided to veto them.

It's not worth our money, as much as I love this game, it hasn't changed and is on the decline just like it was on my old ocean years ago. I have no reason to invest my money anymore when it isn't going to help. If they had said, "oh let's hire more staff to increase competitions, implement new designs, have more active OM etc" then yes, you would see dubs go down. But as the more or less lead of this game, said "hey I have no idea and don't really control this situation", then the $$$ we drop are just going to sink into someone's fat pockets and not back into the game where it is needed.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by lady_maeror at Aug 21, 2018 8:51:02 PM]
[Aug 21, 2018 8:50:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Paulisma

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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Dubs are inflated for a reason. It's simply that the few players that want to spend real money on this game, are declining.


This is definitely not the main reason. Sure, fewer doubloon buyers directly result into high doubloon prices. The amount of PoE that comes in the game is just way too much to keep up with the amount of dubs, resulting in inflating doubloon prices. If the European Central Bank decides to print enormous amounts of Euro's you cannont expect that the Dollar/Euro exchange rate to stay constant. Therefore, if voyages and other in-game activities would pay out significantly less the dub price would also be significantly lower. However, most recent significant changes by OMs were done to increase in-game activity payouts. OMs should prioritize the doubloon supply section (highlighted a few examples on how to do this furhter down).

Over the years the YPP economy has shown it definitely fails on it's own. Either decreasing the PoE in-game or increasing the amount of doubloons in-game are the only fixes to the high doubloon prices. Unfortunately, OMs seem to haven chosen to not actively intervene the market.

How to decrease PoE in-game:
- Decrease in-game activity payouts (probably not the smartest thing to do)
- Increase PoE sinks (e.g. 20% of blockade poe goes to OMs.)

How to increase Doubloons in-game:
- More doubloons/dollar
- Make doubloons spawn in-game (e.g. instead of greedy purses spawning somewhere from 1 to 100k, make it 1 to 10 doubloons.)


Obviously there is many more ways to decrease PoE in-game and increase Doubloons in-game.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Paulisma at Aug 22, 2018 1:16:11 AM]
[Aug 22, 2018 1:11:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Robyns090

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Re: Please for the love of the game fix this Reply to this Post
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Uh, let's see. The FDA controls what food and drugs can be sold. Those are physical items. OSHA controls work environments for people making physical items. Actually, almost everything I mentioned is about physical goods.

But really, the money supply is one of the most heavily controlled commodities. Places like the US, EU, Japan, etc. manage the amount of money very well. Places like Places like Zimbabwe and Venezuela have done a very poor job.


Like I said not relevant, you are referring to what products can be sold NOT governments involving themselves in the market by limiting prices. Your point really has nothing to do with the issue of this thread.

Also Zimbabwe and Venezuela are poor examples because their failed economies are not because of a lack of government intervention in the market or too much. It's because of corruption.

But please continue to give pointless examples....
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