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hidemyhoney

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Blockade changes Reply to this Post
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Hi, here to basically say, went onto a navy ship today and basically saw about 5-7 pirates idling for experience (which I have nothing against that). My point is basically, I believe changing the requirement from 2 narrows to enter a blockade to 2 broads so then, they would be actually contributing to the puzzle curve. Why? because the game needs more tougher requirements, since anyone can idle so why not make it harder?
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Stan is a true hero.

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Remove dead oceans, all those wasted new players :/
[Aug 2, 2018 11:19:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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Re: Blockade changes Reply to this Post
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hidemyhoney wrote: 
My point is basically, I believe changing the requirement from 2 narrows to enter a blockade to 2 broads so then, they would be actually contributing to the puzzle curve.

If they're only idling so they can participate in blockades they'd get broad during it anyway.

hidemyhoney wrote: 
Why? because the game needs more tougher requirements, since anyone can idle so why not make it harder?
That doesn't seem like a good reason. The purpose of setting an experience requirement for blockades was to hinder people making bot armies. Is demanding broad going to make a difference? Probably not.
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[Aug 2, 2018 11:41:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Blockade changes Reply to this Post
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[quote] Why? because the game needs more tougher requirements, since anyone can idle so why not make it harder? [/quote] That doesn't seem like a good reason. The purpose of setting an experience requirement for blockades was to hinder people making bot armies. Is demanding broad going to make a difference? Probably not.[/quote]

How about Solid?
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Stan is a true hero.

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, all those wasted new players :/
[Aug 2, 2018 11:46:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ticktick123

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Re: Blockade changes Reply to this Post
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How about Solid?


Same concept.. Solid is only 4 more hours of idling. Won't make much difference.


Also, I'm not sure if you do need a minimum of Broad experience to contribute to the score curve. No matter what experience you are, your stat will be subject to the same curve as everyone else, which is determined by the number of active specific puzzle players, and the average scores. Seems a void reason for having Broad minimum requirements to be added, purely from speculation.

Unless you have evidence?
[Aug 3, 2018 1:17:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

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Re: Blockade changes Reply to this Post
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Also, I'm not sure if you do need a minimum of Broad experience to contribute to the score curve. No matter what experience you are, your stat will be subject to the same curve as everyone else, which is determined by the number of active specific puzzle players, and the average scores. Seems a void reason for having Broad minimum requirements to be added, purely from speculation.

Unless you have evidence?

All pirates are subject to the curve but they do not all necessarily contribute to the curve.

The popular gun army noticeably shifts the curve. However there's actually a separate silent army (ryugod, ryucannot, etc), and back when they were active, they didn't seem to impact the curve at all.

Admittedly, I didn't bother to raise Narrow alts since I heard Broad on the grapevine. It might very well be Narrow instead. But yes there's definitely a minimum experience requirement, with Broad guaranteeing influence on the curve.
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[Aug 3, 2018 3:26:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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If they're only idling so they can participate in blockades they'd get broad during it anyway.


Or they are prepping their bot accounts.

I don't think any level of of experience to enter the kade will influence much of anything for the curve.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Aug 3, 2018 3:56:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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If the bot army accounts aren't being detected by the time a pirate has been logged in enough to achieve a yellow name, the problem probably isn't with the requirements to join, but with whatever is in place to detect a bot account.
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[Aug 3, 2018 11:58:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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2 narrows doesn't = a yellow name
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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!!!Bad Social Player!!! Can't keep track of who is who....
[Aug 3, 2018 7:14:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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2 narrows doesn't = a yellow name


Having a yellow name is one of the jobber requirements.
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[Aug 4, 2018 2:03:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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2 narrows doesn't = a yellow name


Having a yellow name is one of the jobber requirements.


Wow I didn't know that, the account has to be saved to.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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!!!Bad Social Player!!! Can't keep track of who is who....
[Aug 4, 2018 4:33:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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If the bot army accounts aren't being detected by the time a pirate has been logged in enough to achieve a yellow name, the problem probably isn't with the requirements to join, but with whatever is in place to detect a bot account.

Whether your name is still green or if it is yellow is *only* an indication of how many hours you have logged into the game. You can get a yellow name by just sitting on the dock doing nothing, not even lazying at a puzzle.

Getting experience can be done by lazing on a puzzle in the navy and booching. You don't have to really puzzle, let alone run a bot.

The blockade requirements keep brand new players from getting sucked into a very long play session that can, in theory, end up paying them nothing.

if the goal is to detect bots, GH would need to change it so that the pirates have to puzzle at a certain level for a certain amount of time. For example, GH could change it so that booching doesn't give you experience and even getting a poor gives you very little.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 4, 2018 7:24:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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if the goal is to detect bots, GH would need to change it so that the pirates have to puzzle at a certain level for a certain amount of time. For example, GH could change it so that booching doesn't give you experience and even getting a poor gives you very little.


This surely wouldn't make any difference to the current situation - bots are capable of getting similar DRs to many real players. Again, it would add a meaningless requirement when the problem is with the detection of bots and not prevention of bots.
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[Aug 4, 2018 7:46:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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This surely wouldn't make any difference to the current situation - bots are capable of getting similar DRs to many real players.

true, but irrelevant. the system determines which boards and pieces you get and as part of the API, it can request the moves your client made in order do the puzzle. If the client is hacked to say it finished a puzzle quickly, but the moves don't work, the game can tell. If the types of moves you make are what bots would do rather than humans, the game can tell. doing poorly on a puzzle isn't a problem with bot detection.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 4, 2018 8:10:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Paulisma

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Bot armys have been around for ages. It's incredibily hillarious to be down 20 jobbers and 1 minute later be up by 10 just before the round goes live. On the contrary, there is nothing more frustrating than jobbing broad/ables to keep up with the elite ships of the opposing side.

Bot armys have become more of an issue because 10-20 bots have much more impact on the outcome of a blockade now than they used to do when the jobbing pool was still enormous. Luckily, OMs already made changes to counter the bot armys by enlarging the jobbing requirements for blockades. Clearly, as we are still discussing this topic those changes weren't enough.

Usually, bot armys are ran by long time ban evaders that do not care much about this game anymore. They are paid by players that still play this game competitively. Therefore, you mostly see bots job for particular flags only. In some blockades the jobbing pool is flooded by bot armys and the next it's not. Reason for this is that they don't do it for PoE, they do it for outgame currency provided by those who still play this game competitively. A final conclusion would be to investigate those who hire the bot armys and not the ones who run them. Warn those who hire them and consequently punish them.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Paulisma at Aug 4, 2018 10:23:17 AM]
[Aug 4, 2018 10:21:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Bot armys have been around for ages. It's incredibily hillarious to be down 20 jobbers and 1 minute later be up by 10 just before the round goes live. On the contrary, there is nothing more frustrating than jobbing broad/ables to keep up with the elite ships of the opposing side.

Bot armys have become more of an issue because 10-20 bots have much more impact on the outcome of a blockade now than they used to do when the jobbing pool was still enormous. Luckily, OMs already made changes to counter the bot armys by enlarging the jobbing requirements for blockades. Clearly, as we are still discussing this topic those changes weren't enough.

Usually, bot armys are ran by long time ban evaders that do not care much about this game anymore. They are paid by players that still play this game competitively. Therefore, you mostly see bots job for particular flags only. In some blockades the jobbing pool is flooded by bot armys and the next it's not. Reason for this is that they don't do it for PoE, they do it for outgame currency provided by those who still play this game competitively. A final conclusion would be to investigate those who hire the bot armys and not the ones who run them. Warn those who hire them and consequently punish them.


+1
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Stan is a true hero.

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, all those wasted new players :/
[Aug 4, 2018 6:30:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Mitjana



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Re: Blockade changes Reply to this Post
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It might be smarter to try and find ways to make it less prudent/profitable to cheat, than it would be to try and fight the unwinnable war that is fighting cheating in games.

Doing things like,

Devaluing the importance of jobber numbers through skilled swabbies or the like.
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Adding variation to the jobbers puzzling experience instead of rewarding/encouraging long hours of single puzzle playing with frays, station changes, and other similar things to break up the monotony.
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Adding more jobbing restrictions like:
Must have been apart of a flag or allied flag for x days to at least congregate the armies making them easier to spot and report.
Must have a set level of experience (Narrow maybe?) in both a crafting puzzle and a parlor puzzle in addition to the two piracy narrows required.



Just my .2
[Aug 4, 2018 8:32:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Interesting I thought the botters sold the poe in RMT or its both, as far as jobbing number jumping right before live, I rarely job to a ship to sit for the hour and wait and often job with in 5 min of the round. Would think the bot armies would be in early to get their stations. The only solution that will really work is if people stop hiring them, they are not that hard to spot. If the ban hammer keeps falling during kades its likely they will as kades are lost mid round 1-2 as jobber numbers drop due to bans/suspensions and ships then sunk and round lost.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Aug 4, 2018 9:21:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Paulisma

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Re: Blockade changes Reply to this Post
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Doing things like,

Devaluing the importance of jobber numbers through skilled swabbies or the like.


There have been some suggestions about this in the past. Unfortunately, they were unsuccessful. I linked one below started by me.

More ''White Names'' on ships.

I only recently came back to this game and I jobbed on a cit run. We took 4 hours to successfully load. Adding white names to ships doesn't only counter the influence of bots it more importantly counters waiting times that have been drifiting people away from this game for the past years. Just imagine the amount of players that wouldn't play Battle Royale or MOBA games with longer queue times.

 
Interesting I thought the botters sold the poe in RMT or its both


It's probably both when their bots have not been banned yet. However, I have been told OMs are more successful countering them mid blockade (as you mentioned in mid round 1-2) so they wouldn't be able to sell the poe they made.

 
The only solution that will really work is if people stop hiring them, they are not that hard to spot. If the ban hammer keeps falling during kades its likely they will as kades are lost mid round 1-2 as jobber numbers drop due to bans/suspensions and ships then sunk and round lost.


Obviously they are going to hire them as they made them show up in the first place. Sure, it'd be annoying for the flag to see them banned mid-blockade, but having them for a round and a half is still better than nothing.


The way YPP tried to tackle this issue in the past has clearly not worked out. Unfortunately, they probably don't have the resources to do it the right way now. It just makes no sense to keep banning the muppets instead of punishing those who bring them along. It's like trying to stop a war by killing every soldier instead of those who control them.
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hi im kev
#FreeOceancool
Pauldancer&Paulisma
[Aug 5, 2018 3:24:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Blockade changes Reply to this Post
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Doing things like,

Devaluing the importance of jobber numbers through skilled swabbies or the like.


There have been some suggestions about this in the past. Unfortunately, they were unsuccessful. I linked one below started by me.

More ''White Names'' on ships.

I only recently came back to this game and I jobbed on a cit run. We took 4 hours to successfully load. Adding white names to ships doesn't only counter the influence of bots it more importantly counters waiting times that have been drifiting people away from this game for the past years. Just imagine the amount of players that wouldn't play Battle Royale or MOBA games with longer queue times.

 
Interesting I thought the botters sold the poe in RMT or its both


It's probably both when their bots have not been banned yet. However, I have been told OMs are more successful countering them mid blockade (as you mentioned in mid round 1-2) so they wouldn't be able to sell the poe they made.

 
The only solution that will really work is if people stop hiring them, they are not that hard to spot. If the ban hammer keeps falling during kades its likely they will as kades are lost mid round 1-2 as jobber numbers drop due to bans/suspensions and ships then sunk and round lost.


Obviously they are going to hire them as they made them show up in the first place. Sure, it'd be annoying for the flag to see them banned mid-blockade, but having them for a round and a half is still better than nothing.


The way YPP tried to tackle this issue in the past has clearly not worked out. Unfortunately, they probably don't have the resources to do it the right way now. It just makes no sense to keep banning the muppets instead of punishing those who bring them along. It's like trying to stop a war by killing every soldier instead of those who control them.


No doubt that the ways are failing but with the cost of running a kade and losing 20-30 jobbers mid kade due to bans leads to a huge loss in poe and ships, for nothing. I haven't paid attention to the numbers until late not sure if they were banning mid kades in the past. I don't recall.

And yes they NEED to reduce the wait times, often I am loading for something and find my self busy doing something else by the time it fills rarely do I even bother with large ship smh any more 4 hours to load 3 hours inside is a days work, and in the end the runner of the ship is the one making the money. Just not worth the time.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Aug 5, 2018 7:24:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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