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Filthyjake

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Honest Qustion Reply to this Post
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I have been told I don't know the history of the sub/dub oceans. This is true, I don't understand why the sub ocean died off.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.

Which ever way the wind blows...
[Jul 25, 2018 6:42:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Honest Qustion Reply to this Post
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I have been told I don't know the history of the sub/dub oceans. This is true, I don't understand why the sub ocean died off.


Basically people don't want to pay money to play a game. No matter how many benefits subscription oceans have over doubloon oceans, people basically won't pay a subscription to play or even bother to dub-scribe every month to just play there. Cerulean has had a lowish population for a long time, while other populated doubloon oceans have had a more healthy population, if were talking from 2012 onwards.
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I love Honey

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, make a new one for the established players!

Add Skilled swabbies for SMHs/flotillas!
[Jul 26, 2018 1:46:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Keaze

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Re: Honest Qustion Reply to this Post
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have been told I don't know the history of the sub/dub oceans. This is true, I don't understand why the sub ocean died off.


But where's the qustion?????
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Keaze
That Bombing Guide
[Jul 26, 2018 3:07:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Basically people don't want to pay money to play a game. No matter how many benefits subscription oceans have over doubloon oceans, people basically won't pay a subscription to play or even bother to dub-scribe every month to just play there. Cerulean has had a lowish population for a long time, while other populated doubloon oceans have had a more healthy population, if were talking from 2012 onwards.


I can understand that, but then how come there are so many box fams, and clothing along with other items around?

 
But where's the qustion?????


Did the sub ocean's ever have a population? The charts don't really show one but I don't know what oceans were sub/dub. What merged with what ect. The question is what happened and why.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.

Which ever way the wind blows...
[Jul 26, 2018 3:59:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Did the sub ocean's ever have a population? The charts don't really show one but I don't know what oceans were sub/dub. What merged with what ect. The question is what happened and why.


They did. The first ocean was a sub ocean (being Midnight, or Azure if you count the beta testing days)

Sub: Midnight/Cobalt ( -> Cerulean )
Dub: Viridian/Malachite ( -> Meridian )
Dub: Sage/Hunter (-> Emerald )

If you look at the charts (you can set the activity tracker to 20 years, click "midnight" and the other old oceans on the left), they still had about 350 players average (half the population of a dub ocean) around 2008. Unfortunately I don't think there are statistics available for the time before that, but sub was definitely big at first.
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TriplePat, Joining the great obsidian migration.
[Jul 26, 2018 4:29:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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I can understand that, but then how come there are so many box fams, and clothing along with other items around?


To promote people to pay money for the game, that leads towards a subscription or dub-scribing to get population numbers up on Cerulean.

 
But where's the qustion?????


Read it :P

 
Did the sub ocean's ever have a population? The charts don't really show one but I don't know what oceans were sub/dub. What merged with what ect. The question is what happened and why.


Back when Puzzle pirates first came out the servers on subscription oceans had around 3k players which was around 2003 then when Doubloon oceans were released due to players wanting an alternative, so then Subscription oceans started to die and Doubloon Oceans started to gain with my previous post explaining why. I don't think they have much memory on the charts where I could only see back to 2008, tbf the game made way too many Oceans in the first place which divided up the playerbase too much.
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I love Honey

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, make a new one for the established players!

Add Skilled swabbies for SMHs/flotillas!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by hidemyhoney at Jul 26, 2018 6:15:49 AM]
[Jul 26, 2018 6:14:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Honest Qustion Reply to this Post
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I have been told I don't know the history of the sub/dub oceans. This is true, I don't understand why the sub ocean died off.


Basically people don't want to pay money to play a game. No matter how many benefits subscription oceans have over doubloon oceans, people basically won't pay a subscription to play or even bother to dub-scribe every month to just play there. Cerulean has had a lowish population for a long time, while other populated doubloon oceans have had a more healthy population, if were talking from 2012 onwards.

This is clearly not true on several points.

People are quite willing to pay real money to play a game, otherwise the dub oceans wouldn't have dubs on the exchange and OOO would have shut them down.

To understand why dub oceans were more sucessful than sub oceans, you need to think about two key things about how people act.

First, people want to know something is worth it before they spend money on something. Recommendations help, but trying before you buy is even more effective.

Second, people won't change for something slightly better, something new has to be MUCH better.

So, while you can play "free" on sub oceans, you are very limited. On dub oceans, you can try out more of the game without sinking a single dub. More over, you can use the dub exchange to quickly get access to MUCH more of the game by trading PoE for dubs.

Once you get your start on an ocean, switching oceans is very costly. You have already made a lot of friends, learned the ocean, etc. Switching oceans, either dub to sub or sub to dub, won't even be considered by most players.

The dub exchange also let people use their real world money to save a lot of time to advance in the game by buying PoE off the exchange. No such option was allowed on sub oceans.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Jul 26, 2018 6:55:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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This is clearly not true on several points.

People are quite willing to pay real money to play a game, otherwise the dub oceans wouldn't have dubs on the exchange and OOO would have shut them down.


While true for some, many won't/don't. Lots of players don't spend a single cent on dubs and play for free. This is balanced out by those who drop a thousand or two on the game monthly.
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TriplePat, Joining the great obsidian migration.
[Jul 26, 2018 7:07:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Pikapyah

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And this is exactly why World of Warcraft is the only true mmorpg that tanked "time" and is still alife in all its glory. Why in the world would you swap from a subscription based game type to a free type with tons of MTX. i'll tell you why, RIFT, SWTOR, tera,GW2,YPP...? all subscription launched games. What happend? they where shit. Just as simple as that. If your playerbase is not willing to pay for the game what does that translate to? your playerbase is saying...your game is shit. 0 dedication towards the game.

I've been playing WoW for 14 years jake, there isn't a single post crying to remove the subscription from it from millions of players . Why? Because even tho Blizzard can probably end the hunger in Afrika with a year of MTX revenue. They will never remove the subscription because the subscription shows dedication to the game from both sides. They will never stop creating content and the people will never stop paying.

The moment u end ur subscription based style is the moment ur game dies. And ypp has tanked it a "Scuppering" long time.
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"economy killer, destroyer of stalls"
Pika says, "make it war bae"
Catch 'em all declared war on Scuppering Shrews.
Catch 'em all declared war on For Fox Sake.
Catch 'em all declared war on Consider it Sunk.
[Jul 26, 2018 10:52:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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hidemyhoney wrote: 
Back when Puzzle pirates first came out the servers on subscription oceans had around 3k players which was around 2003 then when Doubloon oceans were released due to players wanting an alternative, so then Subscription oceans started to die and Doubloon Oceans started to gain with my previous post explaining why. I don't think they have much memory on the charts where I could only see back to 2008, tbf the game made way too many Oceans in the first place which divided up the playerbase too much.

Where are you getting 3,000 players in 2003 from? I thought for sure the number was around the 2k mark (1800-2400 range) in 2004/2005. Might be poor memory though, it was 15 years ago.

Filthyjake wrote: 
I have been told I don't know the history of the sub/dub oceans. This is true, I don't understand why the sub ocean died off.

IIRC, back in 2004ish, there were players saying that they were tired of paying full price when they only do a couple of things in the game. And there were also complaints about paying full price but only logging in 7 or 8 days a month. It was asked that a solution be found to allow you to not only pay for just the features you wanted to use, but to also have that time period only count against you when you login.

Around that same time (probably earlier than player complaints, but this is all subjective based on my horrid memory) OOO saw how Asia was moving more towards micro-payments for content in-game. And the desire was to try and expand the game into the Asian market. So OOO began working on the doubloon solution.

There is an interview somewhere that has Cleaver talking about why OOO gambled on micro-transactions, but I don't remember what search terms I used to find it or who it was with. I think someone linked to the article in the forums, but the same issue applies. And I'm not so concerned about figuring it out.
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#TeamEvil
Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people

Vas wrote: 
can you add another quote to your signature? "Maj is a liability on the forums. Someone stop him"

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[Edit 2 times, last edit by majestrate at Jul 26, 2018 11:51:05 AM]
[Jul 26, 2018 11:49:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Hmm.... its starting to make some logical sense to me now. People wanted more of an alacart game, makes sense with labor alts (personally didn't enjoy subscribing with multiple accounts that I didn't use for more then the whopping 16 hours of labor.

The sub option isn't appealing till your a daily player as many who play are but there are to few of us now, and many like the alacart for their labor alts and even have the options of 24 or 72 hr badges.

Over all I guess I can see both ways thanks to all who took a few minutes to help me to understand the history. I really hope the numbers can get close to 1k a day again somewhere on some ocean. I can't even imagine kades with 6-800 people per side that would be so much fun.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.

Which ever way the wind blows...
[Jul 26, 2018 12:16:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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The Wayback Machine's earliest archive is June 20th, 2006. It gives you a glimpse of activity levels twelve years ago.
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Avatar by Velternal
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by joshuawhelan at Jul 26, 2018 12:44:36 PM]
[Jul 26, 2018 12:43:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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People are quite willing to pay real money to play a game, otherwise the dub oceans wouldn't have dubs on the exchange and OOO would have shut them down.

To understand why dub oceans were more sucessful than sub oceans, you need to think about two key things about how people act.

First, people want to know something is worth it before they spend money on something. Recommendations help, but trying before you buy is even more effective.

Second, people won't change for something slightly better, something new has to be MUCH better.

So, while you can play "free" on sub oceans, you are very limited. On dub oceans, you can try out more of the game without sinking a single dub.

To this you can add in that Y!PP is a more casual game than many other subscription games. While there are a few people who will show up five or more days per week, many other players only hop on a few times a month. And when you're doing that, well... are you going to pay $10 per month for what are relatively simple puzzles, many of which have variations that can be found online elsewhere for free?

I don't think it would have been quite so bad if the bling you could purchase with your pieces of eight wasn't quite so limited. But this game had (and still has) a very low threshold for what you could get without subscriptions (or doubloons), which limits how long people are going to play it before making that decision to buy in or go home.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Jul 26, 2018 6:23:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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the dub exchange also has problems. It is unstable. The game, with only a few exceptions, requires sinking dubs in order to sink PoE, and the rate built into the game is about 1-2k PoE per dub. The higher the exchange rate, the fewer dubs people can place on the exchange without getting too much PoE for the dubs they have left. This can cause the exchange to collapse, like it did on meridian.

I keep track of the number of players who have logged in in the last 10 days (what the game called "active pirates"). This is different than the number of actual people, or the number of pirates logged on at a given time, but all three numbers track each other. Since 2007-01-01, Meridian dropped from around 5000 "active" pirates to around 1500. Cerulean dropped from around 2200 "active" pirates to 1400. In a few more months, Cerulean will probably pass Meridian.

So, dubs don't cure everything.

That said, both Cerulean and Meridian have joined Ice in having populations so low that the commodity spawns are a little wonky. There is a minimum spawn rate, which exceeds the rate of consumption so prices of all commodities keeps dropping. This hurts the meridian dub exchange even more since the amount of PoE being sunk is even less.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Jul 26, 2018 7:02:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Honest Qustion Reply to this Post
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I have been told I don't know the history of the sub/dub oceans. This is true, I don't understand why the sub ocean died off.


Basically people don't want to pay money to play a game. No matter how many benefits subscription oceans have over doubloon oceans, people basically won't pay a subscription to play or even bother to dub-scribe every month to just play there. Cerulean has had a lowish population for a long time, while other populated doubloon oceans have had a more healthy population, if were talking from 2012 onwards.

This is clearly not true on several points.

People are quite willing to pay real money to play a game, otherwise the dub oceans wouldn't have dubs on the exchange and OOO would have shut them down.

To understand why dub oceans were more sucessful than sub oceans, you need to think about two key things about how people act.

First, people want to know something is worth it before they spend money on something. Recommendations help, but trying before you buy is even more effective.

Second, people won't change for something slightly better, something new has to be MUCH better.

So, while you can play "free" on sub oceans, you are very limited. On dub oceans, you can try out more of the game without sinking a single dub. More over, you can use the dub exchange to quickly get access to MUCH more of the game by trading PoE for dubs.

Once you get your start on an ocean, switching oceans is very costly. You have already made a lot of friends, learned the ocean, etc. Switching oceans, either dub to sub or sub to dub, won't even be considered by most players.

The dub exchange also let people use their real world money to save a lot of time to advance in the game by buying PoE off the exchange. No such option was allowed on sub oceans.


You basically agreed with my first statement, on why people do play on doubloon than subscription...
----------------------------------------
I love Honey

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, make a new one for the established players!

Add Skilled swabbies for SMHs/flotillas!
[Jul 26, 2018 8:35:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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this game had (and still has) a very low threshold for what you could get without subscriptions (or doubloons), which limits how long people are going to play it before making that decision to buy in or go home.


This is the real issue with gaining new players, to start out they don't know what to do to make money and with no stats people are skeptical to hire them as they don't do so well or think they are alts ect....

The Sub ocean doesn't even let you wear shoes with out a sub not a big deal and your stuck as a cabin person, can't do much other then pillage and kades and floats. Can do other things on free days but again weapons are really weak or not allowed so hard to beat other players with the best weapons.

The Dub Ocean is so harsh to get going Want a sloop 10 dubs, want a sword 10 dubs want an out fit your safe if you can find one on the rack. Bludgeon 10 dubs Found a crew and they will make you an officer if you have a ship need the badge 8 dubs. So to start out you need about 38 dubs 3k each 84k in poe plus the items prices which means they need roughly 160k.... rookie pillages pay out 5-800 poe a battle on a great day.... so that's about 20 battles if you can get on a ship....



I really am trying to figure out where the huge change is as to why the people once came and now its hard to get new people to stay, Ya Its a dated game but there isn't one like it or even close. I really think the reality is its just to hard to get started and hooked on it.
----------------------------------------
Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.

Which ever way the wind blows...
[Jul 26, 2018 11:14:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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