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Msmyers

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Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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We've had some issues regarding proper use of the trade chat channel on Emerald lately. When Hera intervened in a flame war conducted there a week ago, she directed pirates to use /global. This was the first time I had heard of this channel.
I have been playing YPP for almost 13 years, on and off. I know I'm not the only pirate who is/was completely unaware that global chat exists. In searching the forums, I saw that Opsat wrote in another thread:

 

I realized that it might be better if the default is global chat on and trade chat off, instead of the other way around.



Is there any way this can be implemented? Or at least have a more obvious way to inform players (particularly returning ones) that global exists, other than wading through potentially YEARS of changenotes?

Thanks for your consideration of this!
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~Msmyers, everywhere
[Jun 25, 2018 9:07:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ghostbeardz1

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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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Yayyyy, Wonderful Forum Proposal!

Ghostbeards votes Yes! & Aye! for automatic /global-on default. There be a lot of new & returning pirates who experience surprise when they first hear /global exists. Brainstorming friendly ways to help spread & increase /global accessibility is a very worthy cause. Really wonderful /global post, Msmyers!

Three Cheers for this proposal!
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Ghostbeards of Emerald
Senior Officer of The Royal United Navy
[Jun 25, 2018 9:38:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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We've had some issues regarding proper use of the trade chat channel on Emerald lately. When Hera intervened in a flame war conducted there a week ago, she directed pirates to use /global. This was the first time I had heard of this channel.
I have been playing YPP for almost 13 years, on and off. I know I'm not the only pirate who is/was completely unaware that global chat exists. In searching the forums, I saw that Opsat wrote in another thread:

 

I realized that it might be better if the default is global chat on and trade chat off, instead of the other way around.



Is there any way this can be implemented? Or at least have a more obvious way to inform players (particularly returning ones) that global exists, other than wading through potentially YEARS of changenotes?

Thanks for your consideration of this!


Global and Trade chat, are basically chat channels that anyone can see if they have them switched on, on their accounts/pirate.
I feel this should be still optional to turn off/on because not every player who keeps playing wants to see spam that they don't care about (maybe for dead oceans like Opal/Jade/Meridian or Ice can be permanent for testing uses), I speak for many on the forums as well. People have mostly used Global/Trade to just mostly spam, I would be in favor for something to be implemented about cool-down times per message Especially on Trade chat.....
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Keaze is right.

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, all those wasted new players :/
[Jun 26, 2018 1:38:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Trippleos



Joined: Mar 24, 2007
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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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Global and Trade chat, are basically chat channels that anyone can see if they have them switched on, on their accounts/pirate.
I feel this should be still optional to turn off/on because not every player who keeps playing wants to see spam that they don't care about (maybe for dead oceans like Opal/Jade/Meridian or Ice can be permanent for testing uses), I speak for many on the forums as well. People have mostly used Global/Trade to just mostly spam, I would be in favor for something to be implemented about cool-down times per message Especially on Trade chat.....


Seems like you're either missing the point of the thread, or misread it When new players (or old returning players who last played before the introduction of the chats) log on, Global chat is turned off by default, and trade chat is turned on. There is nothing on the game that informs you that anything like global chat even exists. The O.P is not asking for all the chats to remain turned on permanently, they are asking for Global chat to be on by default (still with the option to turn off), and trade chat be turned off for those that just start/restart the game. This or some kind of message telling new players that global and trade chat exist and what their specific purpose is.

I heartily endorse the idea, but i'd like to see both the global and trade chats turned on by default, with a message showing you what they're for and how to toggle them. This and possibly a green message displaying their intended purpose every time you turn them on, as a reminder so people aren't misusing them.
[Jun 26, 2018 3:21:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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Please No, I don't want to turn Global and Trade Off every time I log in.



I would much prefer a tab called chat,
Allow people to toggle on or off all avalible chats
Crew (would be a nice add)
Flag
Faction
Global
Trade
DND
Harties (just cause some are on the list doesn't mean we want tells)
Vestal (Again don't need to here the nonsense some times)
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Want Kade Support post a intent....

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.
[Jun 26, 2018 5:47:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randompanzy

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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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I would much prefer a tab called chat,

Harties (just cause some are on the list doesn't mean we want tells)
Vestal (Again don't need to here the nonsense some times)


No to both of these things, the hearty thing if they are a hearty you accept that they may send you tells secondly I believe there is a technical restriction behind it as well preventing that sort of thing could be wrong tho.

Same with the vessel, if you are on a ship important things could be being said so its good to know everyone can hear them and not have to guess who has chat muted.

All the others I agree with this is a social game people should be able to talk to other people. The location should be not on the notice board but on your personal pirate page on the ye tab I could see.

As for the actual topic, I agree I only accidentally ran into global chat when I typed /help and was like oh whats this command.

Maybe it could be a popup for new/current/old players on login after a future update something quick and easy?
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Randompanzy from Viridian now sailing on Obsidian
SO of Lion's Roar
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The views on my post are of my own and not my flag.

 
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[Jun 28, 2018 11:29:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.teamepsilon.net    phillip1904    GB Fayt    I'm a little kitty that goes MOO! :D [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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Behold your newest chat channel.
As a YPPedia editor without any pirates in play, I can freely use this channel.


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Retired as of August 2015.
2 Timothy 4:7
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Jun 30, 2018 5:15:32 AM]
[Jun 30, 2018 5:14:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Joined: Dec 26, 2017
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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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Behold your newest chat channel.
As a YPPedia editor without any pirates in play, I can freely use this channel.



+1
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Keaze is right.

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, all those wasted new players :/
[Jun 30, 2018 3:22:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
adelaidean12

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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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Many players are not aware of global chat given that it is off by default. Having a pop up to notify all players of global and trade chats, as suggested by randompanzy is a good idea.
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Adelaidean
Emerald Ocean
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[Jun 30, 2018 8:10:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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There are pros and cons to having the chat off-by-default. Let's use an industry-standard terms known as "opt-in" and "opt-out".

If a player must opt-in to /global, then he is much more likely to want to be there in the first place. He was motivated enough to find it and execute the command to access it. He felt that he was missing out, so he joined the crowd.

If a player must opt-out to /global, then she found herself already there when she created an account. She probably didn't know how to opt-out in the first place, and may have watched helplessly while others carried on conversations and sent messages she may not have wanted. She may not have cared too much, until one day when her frustration boiled over so far that she took the time to research it, found a way to opt-out, and left the channel.

We have seen both kinds of situations here, so the devs' decision to make /global an opt-in experience was borne from feedback already given by us and OMs in charge of monitoring and discipline.

Yes, it could be good to switch /global to opt-out, but I would feel that anyone who is selling or spamming would also view that as a good change, and flock to the channel, which would then have a much larger captive audience. As a result, those who remained would drown in a declining signal:noise ratio. No thanks!
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Retired as of August 2015.
2 Timothy 4:7
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Jun 30, 2018 8:37:40 PM]
[Jun 30, 2018 8:37:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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@LJAmethyst

Oh at least this post tries to add to discussion (as compared to your previous one), but I think you missed the point. It's about /global being borderline invisible. And if you contrasted that against /trade which is On by default, that's just more weird.

 
motivated enough to find it and execute the command to access it

Biasness in your opt-in/opt-out debate aside, this is nonsense btw. You can't possibly be motivated to find something you didn't even know about.
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Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Jun 30, 2018 10:54:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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@LJAmethyst

Oh at least this post tries to add to discussion (as compared to your previous one), but I think you missed the point. It's about /global being borderline invisible. And if you contrasted that against /trade which is On by default, that's just more weird.

 
motivated enough to find it and execute the command to access it

Biasness in your opt-in/opt-out debate aside, this is nonsense btw. You can't possibly be motivated to find something you didn't even know about.


Since this is a whimsical video game, and also because I am retired and have no interest in further gameplay, I feel that the forums benefit from some levity once in a while and not every post has to be on-topic and serious game-face about issues everyone cares about. It was timely, because that XKCD just came out recently, and I felt it was applicable to this, one of the few active threads in the forum. Did it really hurt to try and laugh?

Regarding the opt-in process, perhaps my description was unclear. Naturally, in the "opt-in" scenario, players necessarily find out about the chat channel in some other way than seeing it be used, so it would tend to be by accident. But once you found out about it, you would necessarily need to be motivated to seek out the command which activates it and use the command. The motivation comes from wanting to join in, because you see that as a good, rather than being annoyed or frustrated at seeing unwanted chat spam, and feeling compelled to figure out how to opt-out.

Yes, I am biased against opt-out. There are different types of players, those who like to be chatty and have frivolous conversations about whatever, and they like to see others talk and they like seeing themselves talk. For them, they can't get enough chat channels, and they don't mind when others don't observe the topic restrictions and terms of use.

There are other folks who are more focused, and when we subscribe to something, it needs to convey information and added value directly related to its stated purpose and topic. So we use filters and /mute and we unsubscribe from unwanted channels and we tear into the OMs so that they enforce Da Rules.

So for Grey Havens, it's all a matter of support issues in regards to which crowd they wish to please, and it's a balancing act. I think they realized that /trade would need to be opt-out in order to work properly, and it was safer to make /global opt-in, rather than hear from everyone who was wronged by its unrelenting traffic.

And it's amusingly ironic that I fall into the latter opt-in category, but we've got different views about the propriety of my previous post.
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Retired as of August 2015.
2 Timothy 4:7
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Jun 30, 2018 11:07:24 PM]
[Jun 30, 2018 10:59:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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Re: Global and trade chat Reply to this Post
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LJAmethyst wrote: 

We have seen both kinds of situations here, so the devs' decision to make /global an opt-in experience was borne from feedback already given by us and OMs in charge of monitoring and discipline.


I don't recall this being the case, the forum community have been asking for /global to be 'default on' since the day of it's release, similar posts also asked for /trade to be 'default off'. While I can appreciate the validity of the point you're making in the rest of your post, I feel lumping everyone under those two situations is overly simplistic. I also don't think there's cause for concern in global getting 'trade chat' spam. If you'd logged into Emerald much you'd see the opposite already exists, people regularly spamming trade chat with jobbing offers, AOF games and the likes. At least with a change to make global more noticeable, pirates wouldn't be ignorant to where they can type their messages

Regarding LJAmethyst on people not reading patch notes, the original poster specifically mentioned this in opening post.
Msmyers wrote: 
other than wading through potentially YEARS of changenotes?


While the ideal situation would have everyone reading them, it's reasonably clear most active players do not, as evident for example by the number of players simply using /trade chat to ask how to turn it off on it's release. I think it's definitely a stretch to assume anyone who has taken multiple years off will read all the patch notes especially since a well designed system shouldn't require it. I see people all the time, who similar to myself return from the likes of 2008, do you expect them to read through 10 years of patch notes? I think we're in the minority as pirates who read all the patch notes and unsurprisingly the pool of pirates inactive in-game but still reading patch notes - like yourself - is probably incredibly slim.

Personally, I'm an advocate for /trade, /global and /faction to be set as 'on' for your first login, ideally along with a message in chat similar to
"Chat channels such as global, trade and faction can be toggled on or off, for a list of commands type /Help"

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Jjc on Emerald
Jc on Obsidian (regrettably)
My Kraken bombing guide
CI booty division stats
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