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Malificentt

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PVP Bribe idea Reply to this Post
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What if a bribe system was put into effect for PVP’s.
Say before you set sail you have to decide if you are open to PVP or not. If you do not want a chance of a PVP pay a bribe to PP so you can not be attacked in a PVP battle.
You would have to set it before you deport, just like you set to SMH’s, set PVP or NO PVP. You cannot change settings during your pillage.
With maybe a symbol over a ship that is set to non pvp so other pirates don’t waste time chasing them.

We are seeing a lot of players leaving Obsidian due to the PVP’s maybe this would be a way to help Obsidian keep players.
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~*~Malificent~*~
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Princess of Lion's Bane
[Jun 24, 2018 4:22:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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I am one who left not because of PvP's I enjoyed them greatly. Sadly the exploit made the work people put in to legit pvp's valueless.

The whole system is very broken I don't see a way to opt out of a ocean that promises intentness pvp action is a good idea as its kinda what the ocean was built around the warring factions. Sadly the might rings are also very broken and people attack easy targets because of it. If the matches were more balanced I think some more would enjoy them.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Want Kade Support post a intent....

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.
[Jun 24, 2018 4:48:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Trippleos



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Re: PVP Bribe idea Reply to this Post
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Pro: The idea of a bribe is yet another that could work, and would take a miracle to get a yea/nay from the developer. You're right, a significant amount of people do not want to PvP and this could be a way to avoid it.

Con: This would potentially get abused by the players (then again what doesn't get abused by players). People stock moving for blockades or doing trade runs will never be attacked by warring flags/factions, the main idea of pvps in the first place.
- You might suggest to make it expensive enough that people have to think twice to pay it, but that would leave new players/people with another system where they have to pay lots of poe to access (or not access in this case).
- Make it too cheap and you'll completely remove pvps away from people that actually like pvp or need to pvp to reduce the blockading capability of an opposing flag/faction

It's a idea worth debating, but the cons (to me) outweigh the gains, and it would solve one problem while creating more. I would rate the idea a 3/10 and give it a thumbs down.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Trippleos at Jun 25, 2018 4:23:00 AM]
[Jun 25, 2018 4:18:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

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Re: PVP Bribe idea Reply to this Post
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Malificent wrote: 
If you do not want a chance of a PVP pay a bribe to PP so you can not be attacked in a PVP battle.
Isn't this a bit odd? Shouldn't you bribe the potential attacker, instead of a poe sink? You don't need a system for that either; it can be done via /tell negotiation (depending on how successful my pilly is currently going, maybe I'd put up more for you to leave me alone, assuming I'm threatened, etc.)

In any case, total immunity from PVP is way too powerful. I cannot reasonably see this ever being given the green light.
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Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Jun 25, 2018 4:31:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

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The only way this can feasibly work is if the avoidance fee is set high enough that any potential profits would be substantially reduced. The two methods that disallow player attacks (swabbie transport and greeter pillage) require an empty hold for a reason.

Also, Obsidian is an attempt to make an ocean more geared toward PvP. I can't see it getting anything new that allows players to avoid it.

If you want to avoid PvP, get someone who's good at the navigation puzzle (or get good at it yourself) and use that. Sure, it's not 100% guaranteed, but it's better than the nothing we used to have before that was implemented.
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Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
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[Jun 25, 2018 6:05:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Re: PVP Bribe idea Reply to this Post
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The only way this can feasibly work is if the avoidance fee is set high enough that any potential profits would be substantially reduced. The two methods that disallow player attacks (swabbie transport and greeter pillage) require an empty hold for a reason.

Also, Obsidian is an attempt to make an ocean more geared toward PvP. I can't see it getting anything new that allows players to avoid it.

If you want to avoid PvP, get someone who's good at the navigation puzzle (or get good at it yourself) and use that. Sure, it's not 100% guaranteed, but it's better than the nothing we used to have before that was implemented.

It won't avoid PvP, but taking out a properly staffed ship will all but guarantee an easy escape.

I think the biggest thing that needs to be fixed, across all oceans, is might rings. You should only be able to PvP against an even amount, or greater, number of players. Meaning that if you have 5 aboard your ship and I have 4, I could PvP you but you couldn't PvP me.

Want to sink that GF/WF that someone is solo'ing? You have to do it solo too, regardless of what size ship you're on.
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[Jun 25, 2018 10:29:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Malificentt

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Re: PVP Bribe idea Reply to this Post
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Malificent wrote: 
If you do not want a chance of a PVP pay a bribe to PP so you can not be attacked in a PVP battle.
Isn't this a bit odd? Shouldn't you bribe the potential attacker, instead of a poe sink? You don't need a system for that either; it can be done via /tell negotiation (depending on how successful my pilly is currently going, maybe I'd put up more for you to leave me alone, assuming I'm threatened, etc.)

In any case, total immunity from PVP is way too powerful. I cannot reasonably see this ever being given the green light.


I think if you pay the attacker, people would take advantage of new players or find some way to cheat. I think by a poe sink to PP it would possibly be more fair. I do like that idea though of paying the attacker.

I just put this up for debate, to see what peoples thoughts were, if the Dev's would consider it. =)
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~*~Malificent~*~
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[Jun 25, 2018 10:34:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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As an attacker I could grapple and melee and have a shot at a payout or accept a bribe and be guaranteed nothing. Why would choose the path that will end up with no reward?
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[Jun 25, 2018 10:36:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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More problematic is when a sloop can have 1 person and 4 bots, but can easily be engaged by a ship that's got 3 real people and 2 bots. The attacking sloop with its 2-pirate advantage can generate 3-4 moves a turn, as opposed to the defending sloop's 1-2 moves per turn. This frequently happens on Obsidian. I don't feel might rings should include the bots onboard - it makes alot more sense to just look at the number of actual pirates.

I agree that a properly staffed ship can easily run away.
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[Jun 25, 2018 10:38:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Re: PVP Bribe idea Reply to this Post
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More problematic is when a sloop can have 1 person and 4 bots, but can easily be engaged by a ship that's got 3 real people and 2 bots. The attacking sloop with its 2-pirate advantage can generate 3-4 moves a turn, as opposed to the defending sloop's 1-2 moves per turn. This frequently happens on Obsidian. I don't feel might rings should include the bots onboard - it makes alot more sense to just look at the number of actual pirates.

I agree that a properly staffed ship can easily run away.

It doesn't just happen on Obsidian though. That's why I think requiring PvP attackers to have the same, or less, number of players as the ship they are attacking is something that should be applied to all oceans.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by majestrate at Jun 25, 2018 10:45:39 AM]
[Jun 25, 2018 10:44:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

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Re: PVP Bribe idea Reply to this Post
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As an attacker I could grapple and melee and have a shot at a payout or accept a bribe and be guaranteed nothing. Why would choose the path that will end up with no reward?

Bribe
noun
1. a sum of money or other inducement offered or given to bribe someone.
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Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Jun 25, 2018 12:43:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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As an attacker I could grapple and melee and have a shot at a payout or accept a bribe and be guaranteed nothing. Why would choose the path that will end up with no reward?

Bribe
noun
1. a sum of money or other inducement offered or given to bribe someone.

To better clarify, I meant that the attacker could accept the defender's request for a bribe but the payment would go to GH, which is pointless for the attacker. My apologies if that was too advanced for you to figure out on your own.

Upon reflection, maybe the intent was that the attacker never have a say in the bribe transaction and it's all at the defender's whim.

In any case, I personally am not a fan of either idea.
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Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


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[Jun 25, 2018 2:02:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

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Re: PVP Bribe idea Reply to this Post
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As an attacker I could grapple and melee and have a shot at a payout or accept a bribe and be guaranteed nothing. Why would choose the path that will end up with no reward?

Bribe
noun
1. a sum of money or other inducement offered or given to bribe someone.

To better clarify, I meant that the attacker could accept the defender's request for a bribe but the payment would go to GH, which is pointless for the attacker. My apologies if that was too advanced for you to figure out on your own.
Flawed snide remark. By definition that doesn't even constitute a bribe for the attacker to accept. That's just a defender buying a shield from GH.

Regarding the might ring issue, it extends beyond pirate count. If I'm not mistaken, someone with multiple Ults contributes to a stronger ring than someone with just 1, despite both only being able to execute 1 puzzle at a time


Malificent wrote: 
I think by a poe sink to PP it would possibly be more fair.
To reconcile this with Thunderbird's point, potential attackers need a good dnav to hunt targets. In comparison, it feels cheap to just throw poe at the system and do away with the dnav outmaneuvering. Add in the fact that it's Obsidian, it's even harder to see this idea materialising.
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Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Jun 25, 2018 10:45:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Flawed snide remark.

I'll be your kettle.
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Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


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[Jun 26, 2018 9:31:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Grinfish

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Re: PVP Bribe idea Reply to this Post
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Bribe system proposal:

Upon being engaged during any NON-PILLAGE voyage, a "bribe" button is available to the defending navigator for the first 3 turns.

Upon pressing, the attacking vessel's navigator receives a whistle and "accept bribe" / "refuse bribe" buttons, which have an availability of a further 3 turns.

Upon acceptance, the following occurs:

25% of Booty AND hold contents attempt to transfer to the attacking ship (any excess is thrown overboard by the victorious crew).

A "Pirate Bond" is forged, denying the attacking and defending ships' Crew of ownership engagement of each others' (specific) vessels until they have ported. As mid-route deedswapping is blocked now, this gives the bondees an opportunity to make safe haven.

Pros: Can reduce the time from an engagement to settlement without disengagement/melee/sink (minimum 2 turns, maximum 6).

Affords reasonable protection to the defending vessel upon bribe acceptance, including from in-crew ship-hopping.

Gives the attackers a modest profit from any ship that has goods on board of any type for minimal outlay, without risk of a re-engagement.

The ability to stall the decision for 3 turns on either side of the battle allows the navigators to consider their options based on how those turns play out.

The attacker has the lead hand in the negotiation, with the right of refusal.

Pillage setting is considered consent to take the risk of PvP, with the rewards and prestige that can come with it.

Cons:

Over to you folks to tear the idea apart, if I was thinking of negatives I wouldn't suggest it :)

~ A WW "Five minutes to think about it" Production ~
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Whitewyvern. Distinctly Limey.
Retired, No regrets.
Unretired, still No regrets.
Available in Cerulean and Obsidian flavours.

Briggs wrote: 
StuManchu puts the "sensual" back in "Nonconsensual"

[Jul 2, 2018 2:13:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: PVP Bribe idea Reply to this Post
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Cons:

Over to you folks to tear the idea apart, if I was thinking of negatives I wouldn't suggest it :)


I tell you I have X on board and you get zero because I have nothing or deleted it, but I saved my ship from a sink as I can't get attacked for cool down period. Other then that I like it however it seems like a fair amount of work, and should have been tested, during pre-launch in (4 days left now).

That said I think it will be a nice addition to the pvp system, however it will not fix the more broken parts of the pvp issues making it a bit of shine on a broken system.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Want Kade Support post a intent....

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.
[Jul 2, 2018 4:12:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Grinfish

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I tell you I have X on board and you get zero because I have nothing or deleted it, but I saved my ship from a sink as I can't get attacked for cool down period. Other then that I like it however it seems like a fair amount of work, and should have been tested, during pre-launch in (4 days left now).


As far as telling someone what you have on board - Pirates can Lie. That's not an issue. If you have nothing on board - swabby transport. I guess you could consider it a bonus effect that "dry floating" becomes a more realistic high risk venture.

As far as the deleting hold contents - that can be disabled for the period of the bribe offer - You're too busy negotiating (envision it as running up signal flags/shouting across the open water in the heat of battle). However, why delete the hold contents if you're going to keep 75% whilst getting (albeit limited) protection from a repeat engagement? It's a fair spoiling tactic if you refuse to negotiate, but a pyrrhic victory all the same.

 
That said I think it will be a nice addition to the pvp system, however it will not fix the more broken parts of the pvp issues making it a bit of shine on a broken system.


Indeed, it's not a catch-all fix for PvP. However, baby steps in the right direction have to be a good thing?
Appreciate the feedback!
----------------------------------------
Whitewyvern. Distinctly Limey.
Retired, No regrets.
Unretired, still No regrets.
Available in Cerulean and Obsidian flavours.

Briggs wrote: 
StuManchu puts the "sensual" back in "Nonconsensual"

[Jul 3, 2018 9:58:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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