• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 26
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 2237 times and has 25 replies Next Thread
Mitjana



Joined: Aug 16, 2017
Posts: 44
Status: Offline

Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

While I think getting vessels out on the water faster without requiring as heavy of a player commitment is important, I still think other options can be explored to fix some of the smaller player count problems Puzzle Pirates is facing.

As it stands, the current state of jobbing for a large ship sea monster hunt (WB+) is a pretty daunting task. The ship runner can expect to job for the run for well over 1 hour (sometimes much higher depending on their reputation, and time they choose to go on said run).

This time is spent on a ship deck, spamming global/faction chat, and not being selective.

Some ship runners will employ others to "help load" a ship, thereby having a hearty or crew mate who can't sit for the 1hr+ loading time and potential 2hr+ entry time, stay on the ship as long as they can to give the illusion of a number much closer to 'ready' to keep players on board.

Often a player will get a jobber, who will sit around for 10-20 minutes, and then leave (and who can blame them, what with how boring sitting around can be). This whole experience is not only un-fun, but it's actively making the game seem like it's dying significantly faster than it actually is.


By the time the ship runner has loaded their ship, and entered the SMH, some of the pirates on their ship have been waiting around for hours.

If you don't mind, let me employ a meme:


Sure, 1-2 pirates aren't that bad, and don't mean you instantly need to leave. Still for something that can take HOURS just to get started it's a pretty depressing thing to deal with regularly.

Not too long ago when player numbers were a bit higher, ship runners would employ the "If you leave before x time, I will mute you so you can't come on future runs." tactic. Another pretty awful side-effect that isn't good for fun.

Now with the population even lower, they don't even bother with that message. After all, we're taking so long to load, they don't really have a choice.

It's not fun, it doesn't encourage players to stick around, and even before it got as bad as it is now... It was encouraging behavior and tactics that was completely counter to what Y!PP used to try and combat regularly.

Before you mute me because this post is too long...
TL;DR for the above - meme:



So that leads to where the problem is, and that's with jobbing. Pillaging has a means of bypassing this. We can set sail early, pickup folks along the way, and while it does hit us pretty hard (booty ramp) it's at least something.



For jobbing here are some suggestions:

Allow jobbing pirates to 'reserve' a station on a ship: This would enable pirates to actually do other things while lazing on a loading ship in game instead of desperately clinging to their carp station.

  • Pirate reserving a station loses reservation if they zzz
  • Pirate is pulled to the station from wherever they happen to be when the vessel sets sail
  • Pirates should be listed as 'on station' in the vessel list to show others whats taken


Alter the main cabins of newly built larger ships to have the same functionality built in as an inn: Ship captains already have to put down some of these tables to appease jobbers. Maybe make the cabin only accessible while the vessel is in port. The idea here is to have more parlor games open. Then at least if we're loading for more than an hour, these pirates who are otherwise removed from the game can populate parlor games that have next to no players most times currently.



Of course my biggest suggestion (and the one this whole thread was primarily made for is the following.

Allow captains to put up job offers and /job pirates during breaks while inside of an SMH.

Having the standard NPP's come on board to replace the pirates who've left during the break would also be pretty great.

Problems I can see with my own suggestion:

  • Being able to stay longer, means the next person has to wait longer to enter
  • Being able to remain in means even more poe for the shiprunners
  • Allows potential for alt-abuse to get bots/seem more full to people
  • Somewhat hurts the concept of SMH's being large time commitments.


However I can think of some counters to these main 4 points:

  • Nothing for this one
  • Shiprunners already make a ridiculously unbalanced amount of poe for running anyway, this wouldn't be that much worse as far as I see it.
  • Already happening somewhat in the form of 'help filling' people
  • Large time commitment is one thing, 4 hours for a jobber to make >60k poe is another.





Edit: figured it out
----------------------------------------
[Edit 6 times, last edit by Mitjana at May 5, 2018 4:33:42 AM]
[May 5, 2018 4:25:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 26, 2017
Posts: 291
Status: Offline
Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
While I think getting vessels out on the water faster without requiring as heavy of a player commitment is important, I still think other options can be explored to fix some of the smaller player count problems Puzzle Pirates is facing.

As it stands, the current state of jobbing for a large ship sea monster hunt (WB+) is a pretty daunting task. The ship runner can expect to job for the run for well over 1 hour (sometimes much higher depending on their reputation, and time they choose to go on said run).

This time is spent on a ship deck, spamming global/faction chat, and not being selective.

Some ship runners will employ others to "help load" a ship, thereby having a hearty or crew mate who can't sit for the 1hr+ loading time and potential 2hr+ entry time, stay on the ship as long as they can to give the illusion of a number much closer to 'ready' to keep players on board.

Often a player will get a jobber, who will sit around for 10-20 minutes, and then leave (and who can blame them, what with how boring sitting around can be). This whole experience is not only un-fun, but it's actively making the game seem like it's dying significantly faster than it actually is.


By the time the ship runner has loaded their ship, and entered the SMH, some of the pirates on their ship have been waiting around for hours.

If you don't mind, let me employ a meme:


Sure, 1-2 pirates aren't that bad, and don't mean you instantly need to leave. Still for something that can take HOURS just to get started it's a pretty depressing thing to deal with regularly.

Not too long ago when player numbers were a bit higher, ship runners would employ the "If you leave before x time, I will mute you so you can't come on future runs." tactic. Another pretty awful side-effect that isn't good for fun.

Now with the population even lower, they don't even bother with that message. After all, we're taking so long to load, they don't really have a choice.

It's not fun, it doesn't encourage players to stick around, and even before it got as bad as it is now... It was encouraging behavior and tactics that was completely counter to what Y!PP used to try and combat regularly.

Before you mute me because this post is too long...
TL;DR for the above - meme:



So that leads to where the problem is, and that's with jobbing. Pillaging has a means of bypassing this. We can set sail early, pickup folks along the way, and while it does hit us pretty hard (booty ramp) it's at least something.



For jobbing here are some suggestions:

Allow jobbing pirates to 'reserve' a station on a ship: This would enable pirates to actually do other things while lazing on a loading ship in game instead of desperately clinging to their carp station.

  • Pirate reserving a station loses reservation if they zzz
  • Pirate is pulled to the station from wherever they happen to be when the vessel sets sail
  • Pirates should be listed as 'on station' in the vessel list to show others whats taken


Alter the main cabins of newly built larger ships to have the same functionality built in as an inn: Ship captains already have to put down some of these tables to appease jobbers. Maybe make the cabin only accessible while the vessel is in port. The idea here is to have more parlor games open. Then at least if we're loading for more than an hour, these pirates who are otherwise removed from the game can populate parlor games that have next to no players most times currently.



Of course my biggest suggestion (and the one this whole thread was primarily made for is the following.

Allow captains to put up job offers and /job pirates during breaks while inside of an SMH.

Having the standard NPP's come on board to replace the pirates who've left during the break would also be pretty great.

Problems I can see with my own suggestion:

  • Being able to stay longer, means the next person has to wait longer to enter
  • Being able to remain in means even more poe for the shiprunners
  • Allows potential for alt-abuse to get bots/seem more full to people
  • Somewhat hurts the concept of SMH's being large time commitments.


However I can think of some counters to these main 4 points:

  • Nothing for this one
  • Shiprunners already make a ridiculously unbalanced amount of poe for running anyway, this wouldn't be that much worse as far as I see it.
  • Already happening somewhat in the form of 'help filling' people
  • Large time commitment is one thing, 4 hours for a jobber to make >60k poe is another.





Edit: figured it out


Someone can easily just jump 10-15 alts randomly during your run and sabotage it, or a lucky pirate can jump mid through and win a SH. Not a good idea.
----------------------------------------
Keaze is right.

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, all those wasted new players :/
[May 5, 2018 1:30:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Mitjana



Joined: Aug 16, 2017
Posts: 44
Status: Offline

Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Someone can easily just jump 10-15 alts randomly during your run and sabotage it


I addressed this as an issue (sort of), and I think it's a sort of strawman argument against the idea.

There is nothing right now to stop someone from putting 10-15 alts on a lantis or hs run as is. If they didn't like the person running the ship they could very very easily park them all on a ship, wait until they're deep into the SMH and abandon them all.

How does re-jobbing during a run make this a sudden issue?

If you're suggesting that it'll encourage people to do it more, then I'm very curious to hear how.

As it stands, I don't even remotely agree with your assumption.

 
a lucky pirate can jump mid through and win a SH


I have a fundamental disagreement with this. It's completely ignoring how the game already works.

We already can have a jobber join a pillage for one fight, and end up getting a lobster from a LL. We can already have someone join a KH or CI for one entry/dip and get a krakling or serpent. Hell in HS and Atlantis a jobber can stay for one single cit (or less), and leave. If that ship ends up porting there is still a chance they will get a SH or Ghostling.


The random chest distribution already allows for people to get lucky. I don't think nixing ideas that don't impact it one way or the other makes sense.
[May 5, 2018 1:52:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Whyknot7



Joined: Dec 22, 2017
Posts: 30
Status: Offline

Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I think your ideas are good and applicable.
As solution i would also add bot packs.
Say 5k for aditional 5 bots.

Thinking in more general terms;
The discussion again comes to the low population-big ship issue.
Even there was a reservation system it would matter 3-4 more pirates trust me.

Say 180 online in emerald during midweek;

-30 of them alts
-20 ppl on ci
-40 ppl on pillages
-20 ppl on kh
- 10 ppl just dock sitters
-10 ppl runing stalls shoppes
-50 on poker

You have availbale market of 90 to pick 30 from.
Eleminating ppl who dislike citrun and the really bad stats ; you have to job every 1/2 of ocean to fill a WB.
The point is ; population is low.

Fairwinds
[May 7, 2018 10:49:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
gagund



Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Posts: 431
Status: Offline

Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Allow captains to put up job offers and /job pirates during breaks while inside of an SMH.


Why not take it a step further... and allow continuous jobbing all the time? Unlike in pillaging or CIs, Atlantis and HS are completely open-ended activities, so why do we need to apply the same rules to both situations?
Someone is going to object because the current jobbing system has been in place since the beginning, but just because something has been done for a long time doesn't make it right or the best possible method.

The biggest obstacle would probably be the coding as the devs would have to rework being able to job while the ship is technically "in battle".
Also, someone brought up the fact that someone might monopolize the jobbing board, but isn't it better to have a few people monopolizing but actually running than many people trying to run but failing?

But to keep runs from going on forever and prevent people from simply hopping on and off at will, anytime someone comes on while inside the SMH, they will immediately consume 2 (could be increased if needed) units of rum.
----------------------------------------
-Gagundss
[May 12, 2018 6:33:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Captholland



Joined: Apr 3, 2014
Posts: 129
Status: Offline

Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

can we support this idea!? would be so much easier and more fun!
[May 15, 2018 2:52:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Posts: 4031
Status: Offline
Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

It seemed to me that an original rationale for prohibiting hoppers was because of might-ring manipulation in sea battle. Especially during PVP, if you could attack a teal-ringed enemy and then recruit a couple more jobbers, it would be a massacre. So that is why boarding was impossible once pursuit was engaged.

With the advent of a whole range of different sea battle scenarios, including PVE stuff, is it still important to keep this loophole closed? I dont know. As far as Atlantis is concerned, the size of ships there tends to dilute any advantage, and for all intents and purposes, Atlantis is hardly PVP at all.

But that is just something to think about. The mechanic is not something arbitrary. There could be consequences from changing it.
----------------------------------------
Retired as of August 2015.
2 Timothy 4:7
[May 15, 2018 11:40:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Prammy16

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 2, 2010
Posts: 254
Status: Offline
Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I think the NB domination mentioned earlier is crippling for the idea of constant jobbing. Can you imagine going to the notice board and seeing two people loading, one with 20/75 and one with 65/75 and already in the SMH? The new ship would NEVER get loaded...

This wouldn't really be helped a whole lot with jobbing only being allowed during breaks, either. Again, if you're on the ship with 20/75 people, and the other ship enters a break, you better bet a global chat will be saying "need 10 more people, we're on break!", and you better bet the 20 people will jump off and apply for the ship already in the SMH. It might take 10 minutes longer for the loading ship to be totally abandoned, but it's still going to happen.

Another thing that gets dramatically affected is the risk. If you're backwalling, there's always a risk the longer you stay, as it becomes harder and harder to get back to the safety zone without sinking. Judging that danger is critical for success, but also what makes an SMH more than simply sitting at the back with full jobbers doing exactly the same thing for literally 18 hours straight. I know if they made it allowable, I would being Bnaving while eating or using the LPR until I needed sleep enough to go port. I don't think that's what the devs have in mind.
----------------------------------------
-Porglit on Emerald
-Shadetemplar on Obsidian
[May 18, 2018 6:25:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
gagund



Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Posts: 431
Status: Offline

Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
I think the NB domination mentioned earlier is crippling for the idea of constant jobbing. Can you imagine going to the notice board and seeing two people loading, one with 20/75 and one with 65/75 and already in the SMH? The new ship would NEVER get loaded...

This wouldn't really be helped a whole lot with jobbing only being allowed during breaks, either. Again, if you're on the ship with 20/75 people, and the other ship enters a break, you better bet a global chat will be saying "need 10 more people, we're on break!", and you better bet the 20 people will jump off and apply for the ship already in the SMH. It might take 10 minutes longer for the loading ship to be totally abandoned, but it's still going to happen.


Yes someone is going to monopolize, but that seems like a silly worry to me. Isn't it better to have one person monopolize, but being able to run, than to have no one able to run? Also, someone getting 20 people on a second ship while they know that a 1st ship is already out there with space left would not be a likely situation.
What is a likely and beneficial situation is that someone decides to load, and instead of waiting 1 hour to job, they only have to wait 30 minutes to job because they can go in with 55 people instead of waiting for the full 75.

 
Another thing that gets dramatically affected is the risk. If you're backwalling, there's always a risk the longer you stay, as it becomes harder and harder to get back to the safety zone without sinking. Judging that danger is critical for success, but also what makes an SMH more than simply sitting at the back with full jobbers doing exactly the same thing for literally 18 hours straight. I know if they made it allowable, I would being Bnaving while eating or using the LPR until I needed sleep enough to go port. I don't think that's what the devs have in mind.


There does need to be some counter measure for constant jobbing. I mentioned the immediate rum consumption anytime someone comes aboard, which would increase the risk because the captain would have to stock the ship more. You could also make it so a goon/ghost also comes on board every time a human does. Or even your damage could take a slight hit every time you job someone. There are a multitude of mechanisms you could put into place to increase the risk
----------------------------------------
-Gagundss
[May 18, 2018 6:43:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Prammy16

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 2, 2010
Posts: 254
Status: Offline
Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

The issue I see with one person monopolizing the NB is that it would restrict only those totally dedicated to SMHing to be able to lead an SMH at all. You better believe that if someone can SMH for literally the entire day, they will, and only the people willing to do that will be on the NB. Right now, the only thing stopping you from leading an SMH is finding an XO and the wait to job; if you had continuous jobbing, you'd be directly always competing with someone spending literally 18-hours straight in the SMH.
----------------------------------------
-Porglit on Emerald
-Shadetemplar on Obsidian
[May 18, 2018 6:48:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
gagund



Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Posts: 431
Status: Offline

Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
The issue I see with one person monopolizing the NB is that it would restrict only those totally dedicated to SMHing to be able to lead an SMH at all. You better believe that if someone can SMH for literally the entire day, they will, and only the people willing to do that will be on the NB. Right now, the only thing stopping you from leading an SMH is finding an XO and the wait to job; if you had continuous jobbing, you'd be directly always competing with someone spending literally 18-hours straight in the SMH.


I haven't played much Obsidian at all, but i would imagine that the current SMH scene is dominated by a few individuals, so why are you concerned about diversity? If there are a group of 20 navvers right now who consistently are able to load and that number goes down to 10... well then that's a tradeoff i would do. Are there that many once a in a blue moon SMH navvers that are loading successfully right now?
----------------------------------------
-Gagundss
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by gagund at May 18, 2018 7:06:39 AM]
[May 18, 2018 6:59:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 5, 2015
Posts: 372
Status: Offline
Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
I think the NB domination mentioned earlier is crippling for the idea of constant jobbing. Can you imagine going to the notice board and seeing two people loading, one with 20/75 and one with 65/75 and already in the SMH? The new ship would NEVER get loaded...

This wouldn't really be helped a whole lot with jobbing only being allowed during breaks, either. Again, if you're on the ship with 20/75 people, and the other ship enters a break, you better bet a global chat will be saying "need 10 more people, we're on break!", and you better bet the 20 people will jump off and apply for the ship already in the SMH.


I firmly believe this thread is the future direction the game needs to go in. If someone wants to play a game, they often want to play it now, longer and longer load times as we're seeing only hurt the game more; no-one is interested in sitting on the ship for two hours only to have barely enough time to play by the time the ship fills.

From a personal point of view, I don't job for HS or Atlantis because I know whether it be 30 minutes or an hour into it (or often before we've even left port) someone will hit me up with "Jc want to CI?" or "Jc want to play x other game" (lets be honest, x is usually Fortnite) If I could jump on for half an hour, and then freely hop off again, I'd spend more of my time logged in actually playing the game, which will result in better player retention long-term.

Rather than making a new thread that accentuates the current issue with Sea Monster Hunts, perhaps we can discuss something to prevent being able to stay indefinitely. Most initial solutions fall apart in the sense that they could be evaded by simply re-entering the map, so obviously it would need to be implemented in a way such that this ship is forced to port. It would also be up for discussion what the desired 'max time' a ship should be able to SMH for.

Idea to be considered:
  • Time period (*T*) of 4 hours?
  • After *T* a usually neutral ship (similar to the black ship) becomes hostile for a certain period of time, this ship would remain hostile even if you went to the league point and back.
  • After *T* 1?% of damage taken is permanent, this damage can only be reset by leaving the ship in port for 30 minutes, similar to how you can reset damage currently.
  • After *T* a permanent boarder is gained every 10 minutes, he'll leave only when the ship is ported.
  • A cap on the number of pirates that can be jobbed inside which would scale with ship size.

    Ideally the mechanic would work in such a way that the ship is not forced to leave immediately after *T* but rather encouraged.
    ----------------------------------------
    Jjc on Emerald
    Jc on Obsidian (regrettably)
    My Kraken bombing guide
    CI booty division stats
    ----------------------------------------
    [Edit 2 times, last edit by Jcmorgan6 at May 19, 2018 4:53:15 AM]
  • [May 18, 2018 8:23:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Captholland



    Joined: Apr 3, 2014
    Posts: 129
    Status: Offline

    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

    i dont agree with this^^ if you place such a mechanic its not worth going out in smh at all... So it will stop. The real problem is honestly the jobbers mid leaving or advance jobbing which takes ages.

    If you can job during breaks... so only for 1 min every 15 min. People can play for 30m smh and leave... people come more quickly. less damage taken when people leave..
    [May 19, 2018 2:59:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Captholland



    Joined: Apr 3, 2014
    Posts: 129
    Status: Offline

    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

     
    The issue I see with one person monopolizing the NB is that it would restrict only those totally dedicated to SMHing to be able to lead an SMH at all. You better believe that if someone can SMH for literally the entire day, they will, and only the people willing to do that will be on the NB. Right now, the only thing stopping you from leading an SMH is finding an XO and the wait to job; if you had continuous jobbing, you'd be directly always competing with someone spending literally 18-hours straight in the SMH.


    atleast there will be played more and more often isn't that the problem right now??
    and the 18hour straight in smh. that already here. always has been. so i dont see a problem in this
    [May 19, 2018 3:03:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Jcmorgan6

    Member's Avatar


    Joined: Feb 5, 2015
    Posts: 372
    Status: Offline
    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

     
    i dont agree with this^^ if you place such a mechanic its not worth going out in smh at all... So it will stop.
    Perhaps you could provide some reasoning instead of making such a blanket statement (regardless of whether you're replying to me or someone else, which seems a little ambiguous)

     
    The real problem is honestly the jobbers mid leaving or advance jobbing which takes ages.
    Both of which are problems this thread might help with - the whole point of the thread is to focus on those very problems.

     
    If you can job during breaks... so only for 1 min every 15 min. People can play for 30m smh and leave... people come more quickly. less damage taken when people leave..
    It would be helpful if you could rephrase this using coherent sentences, it's pretty unclear what your agenda is here.

     

    and the 18hour straight in smh. that already here. always has been. so i dont see a problem in this

    It's very much not 'already here' in the sense that it is extremely rare, however it would be the case if this thread was followed through. The only limiting factor would be a ships capacity to stock cannonballs which is currently around 8500 for the Xebec.
    ----------------------------------------
    Jjc on Emerald
    Jc on Obsidian (regrettably)
    My Kraken bombing guide
    CI booty division stats
    [May 19, 2018 6:04:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Captholland



    Joined: Apr 3, 2014
    Posts: 129
    Status: Offline

    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

    damm man. really only thing you can do, is to attack me on my grammar? thumbs up for you.

    this is the mechanic i dont agree with.

    ea to be considered:
    Time period (*T*) of 4 hours?
    After *T* a usually neutral ship (similar to the black ship) becomes hostile for a certain period of time, this ship would remain hostile even if you went to the league point and back.
    After *T* 1?% of damage taken is permanent, this damage can only be reset by leaving the ship in port for 30 minutes, similar to how you can reset damage currently.
    After *T* a permanent boarder is gained every 10 minutes, he'll leave only when the ship is ported.
    A cap on the number of pirates that can be jobbed inside which would scale with ship size.

    although i do agree now on your statement or game mechanic. 'A cap on the number of pirates that can be jobbed inside which would scale with ship size.'
    this will be very useful.

    It would be helpful if you could rephrase this using coherent sentences, it's pretty unclear what your agenda is here.:
    if a ship could job during break. this break is 1 minute every 15 minutes right? people could join for 15 min uptill 1 hour. instead of the 2 hours most ships are in atlantis. I can imagine a lot of people dont have 2 consistent hours to join atlantis.
    so, If people could job for a shorter amount of time. More people will join. But aswell if someone leaves its not as big as a problem if someone will leave right now. with for example about 1.5 hours more to go.
    [May 20, 2018 2:41:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Prammy16

    Member's Avatar


    Joined: Mar 2, 2010
    Posts: 254
    Status: Offline
    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

    TBH, I hadn't considered JCMorgan's idea of having a way to force someone to port, but a number of the suggestions seem legit (permanent damage, permanent boarders, especially).

    I rather like those ideas, and they do indeed solve the major super mega issue of insane waiting times hampering the entire game.
    ----------------------------------------
    -Porglit on Emerald
    -Shadetemplar on Obsidian
    [May 21, 2018 5:47:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Mitjana



    Joined: Aug 16, 2017
    Posts: 44
    Status: Offline

    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

    If continuous jobbing was implemented I have a few suggestions for how we could encourage/push navvers to leave SMH's:

    1) Adjust spawning of sea monsters. Each round/segment/break you make it to within an SMH should increase the amount of spawns that appear for the navver.

    Not only would this provide a soft-limit of sorts to how long a ship could reasonably stay in, but it could provide a sort of "end goal" as well. Ships that do well could try and push their luck to see just how long they could last before being forced to run, as well they'd have access to even more potential rewards as the number of sea monsters/ships to sink would be higher.


    2) Consume another kind of commodity every x minutes or suffer reduced station effectiveness.

    Rum is a trivial ship commodity. It takes up next to no room, and when a larger ship can make such huge amounts of poe per rum, it's cost is negligible. Thus, I'd suggest adding something with far heftier storage requirements as a need. Maybe a new product produced by stalls (to bolster the stall-side economy), or something like fruit to add an additional use to it? By requiring more we can effectively limit the hold sizes of these runs, and have a different product to adjust consumption of to not have to change swill/grog/rum values.

    3) Spawn "hunter" class sea monsters/ghost ships that actively hunt ships which have been in for x minutes.

    These ships would respawn after a set time when sunk and the number would get bigger the longer you were in. These ships wouldn't respect zones, and could be set to not flee when overly damaged. This added risk would make lengthy entries far more risky.
    [May 21, 2018 12:43:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    HungryJack61



    Joined: Sep 18, 2012
    Posts: 34
    Status: Offline

    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

    My two cents:

    Why not just create a timer that is triggered by your first continuous jobber? As it is now, you can smh until the sun sets with the jobbers that you currently have. However, the moment you hire a continuous jobber, a 1-hour timer triggers. You get four more segments before you're ejected from the SMH, and you have to port before your can re-enter.

    Alternative, just place a cap on the total time that an smh can last (3 hours?). Once you hit that time limit, you're ejected and have to port before you can re-enter.

    Does it suck? Yeah.

    Does it make smh less profitable? I mean... Are you really going to complain that a 3-hour smh isn't profitable enough?

    Does it help to bridge the proposed system with the current system? Absolutely. We have some thing which, while slightly broken, still works to a certain degree. We don't need to completely throw away what we have in favor of smh-until-you-die, we just need to modify it a bit.

    As an aside, because I will pitch this at every available opportunity: Make CIs more profitable. It's the only good smh to do with a small ship (sorry KH), and nothing is more frustrating than doing a full CI and walking away with like 10k and some worthless trinkets.
    [May 22, 2018 12:16:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Prammy16

    Member's Avatar


    Joined: Mar 2, 2010
    Posts: 254
    Status: Offline
    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

    I'm all for fixing the problem, but that solution creates far more problems than it actually fixes.
    ----------------------------------------
    -Porglit on Emerald
    -Shadetemplar on Obsidian
    [May 22, 2018 5:51:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    randompanzy

    Member's Avatar


    Joined: Nov 10, 2006
    Posts: 1811
    Status: Offline
    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

     
    Alternative, just place a cap on the total time that an smh can last (3 hours?). Once you hit that time limit, you're ejected and have to port before you can re-enter.


    This would work like how kh's do. I think it would be a good idea if it could be worked in right. Would even solve the question of when we are leaving from jobbers
    ----------------------------------------
    Randompanzy from Viridian now sailing on Obsidian
    SO of Lion's Roar
    Titled Member of Placeholder
    The views on my post are of my own and not my flag.

     
    Tranquilized says, u kno yer notorious for lagging? xD

    [May 22, 2018 12:50:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.teamepsilon.net    phillip1904    GB Fayt    I'm a little kitty that goes MOO! :D [Link]  Go to top 
    HungryJack61



    Joined: Sep 18, 2012
    Posts: 34
    Status: Offline

    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

     
    I'm all for fixing the problem, but that solution creates far more problems than it actually fixes.


    Like?
    [May 22, 2018 3:29:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Kingerr1



    Joined: Oct 2, 2010
    Posts: 23
    Status: Offline

    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

    While we are on topic of SMH's wanted to suggest something.

    Everybody knows how in CI's after every forage the number of cultists/zombies in the next wave is bigger till you lose or disengage.
    . I was thinking why not put the same system into Atlantis and HS regarding spawn number.
    So everytime you sink some X number of trikes/gorgs/arches the next spawn ,"wave" will be bigger and same applies to HS
    For example:
    -every 8 trike sinks
    - 3 gorg sinks
    - 2 arch sinks
    next spawn of monsters will be bigger for 1 more trike.
    This will make SMH's last less time and more productive. There is
    Higher risk of sinking but I think its better that then grinding for 3+ hours with bad spawn or a citadel/GY ruining your spawn.
    [May 23, 2018 3:57:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    HungryJack61



    Joined: Sep 18, 2012
    Posts: 34
    Status: Offline

    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

     
    While we are on topic of SMH's wanted to suggest something.

    Everybody knows how in CI's after every forage the number of cultists/zombies in the next wave is bigger till you lose or disengage.
    . I was thinking why not put the same system into Atlantis and HS regarding spawn number.
    So everytime you sink some X number of trikes/gorgs/arches the next spawn ,"wave" will be bigger and same applies to HS
    For example:
    -every 8 trike sinks
    - 3 gorg sinks
    - 2 arch sinks
    next spawn of monsters will be bigger for 1 more trike.
    This will make SMH's last less time and more productive. There is
    Higher risk of sinking but I think its better that then grinding for 3+ hours with bad spawn or a citadel/GY ruining your spawn.


    I would worry about a higher likelihood of sinking. Looking at the game holistically, it's already a problem (especially in the rare instances that we recruit new players) where a player will spend 1-2 hours pillaging/smh, just to have the ship sink and they get nothing for their time. This would increase that likelihood. I don't think that increasing the smh difficulty is the answer.
    [May 25, 2018 7:28:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Mitjana



    Joined: Aug 16, 2017
    Posts: 44
    Status: Offline

    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

     

    I would worry about a higher likelihood of sinking. Looking at the game holistically, it's already a problem (especially in the rare instances that we recruit new players) where a player will spend 1-2 hours pillaging/smh, just to have the ship sink and they get nothing for their time. This would increase that likelihood. I don't think that increasing the smh difficulty is the answer.


    I think this would be a problem if Atlantis and HS didn't already pay ridiculous amounts of PoE to the shiprunner. A decent to not great run can easily net the person owning the ship an amount that easily exceeds the cost of a sink.

    Compounding on that, PP has an issue where new players already have a really large stacked deck against them to load a ship for a large SMH.

    If anything I think making these large ship engagements harder could increase the viability of other people running their own. Even if this is just by virtue of having the potential ship loading competition sinking.

    Though then the discussion would shift to if that would make large ship SMH's even worth the risk, but as I stated previously: You can make so much from just a moderately successful run the rewards will likely still outlast the risk.
    [May 25, 2018 11:39:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    HungryJack61



    Joined: Sep 18, 2012
    Posts: 34
    Status: Offline

    Re: Jobbing and re-jobbing for sea monster hunts Reply to this Post
    Reply with Quote

    I should clarify, I meant that it sucks more for the jobbers if the ship sinks. I, quite frankly, don't care about the shiprunner at all. There will always be people who will run smh, and I don't think there need to be any changes implemented to help shiprunners.

    The discussion in this thread is to help with jobbing for smh. Yes it helps the shiprunner load faster, but I think that's more of a boon to the jobbers than it is to the shiprunner. Jobbers don't want to wait 4+ hours for an smh to load, whereas a shiprunner is much more willing to wait that long BECAUSE of the payout. People who do not frequently run smh have an almost impossible time loading because, at least on Obsidian, name recognition is what helps frequent shiprunners fill quicker and more easily than infrequent shiprunners. Any measure which either restricts the amount of time inside and smh, or makes jobbing easier, will invariable benefit infrequent shiprunners more than frequent ones.

    The problem with making an smh harder as a way to help the issue is that the people who ARE frequent runners won't be affected as much. They've done the smh 1000 times, they know how everything works, they rarely sink, and they're just all-around better. They have more experience. For newer shiprunners, they're much more likely to sink, they probably aren't as efficient, meaning the likelihood of a good payout for jobbers is lower, and increasing the difficulty would only exacerbate these issues.

    I, quite frankly, don't care about shiprunner payout, because I don't really care about the frequent shiprunners. I care about the jobbers and the infrequent shiprunners, and I think increasing the difficulty would unnecessarily burden these people. Whereas, either allowing jobbing mid-smh or putting a time limit on an smh would help infrequent shiprunners more than frequent ones. People who run an smh every day have little difficulty loading, can usually get the best players to job for them, have a reputation for success (meaning players are more willing to stay on), and can usually do the smh longer before needing to disengage. For infrequent shiprunners the opposite is true, and most of the proposed ideas would help them.
    [May 25, 2018 1:44:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    [Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

    Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2016 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates