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randompanzy

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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As Pika said it?s a bit frustrating that the trading post has been shutdown. I?m sure we will all live for another a week while a flag blockade the BK at the weekend. Yes it may have been unfair for the other flags to have been able to scuttle and keep their SY (AH for example) but I?ve come to learn that a lot of things in life and in game, are not fair.


Interesting twist, this can drive the jobbers to the Float's and BK Kades if they don't want to see it shut down. That is a side I had not thought of.


This is the best part about this patch. It gives jobbers a interest in what happens to the island and can overall will hopefully make filling up ships for flotillas easier
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Randompanzy from Viridian now sailing on Obsidian
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The views on my post are of my own and not my flag.

 
Tranquilized says, u kno yer notorious for lagging? xD

[May 6, 2018 11:45:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.teamepsilon.net    phillip1904    GB Fayt    I'm a little kitty that goes MOO! :D [Link]  Go to top 
Siyubiee

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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As Pika said it?s a bit frustrating that the trading post has been shutdown. I?m sure we will all live for another a week while a flag blockade the BK at the weekend. Yes it may have been unfair for the other flags to have been able to scuttle and keep their SY (AH for example) but I?ve come to learn that a lot of things in life and in game, are not fair.


Interesting twist, this can drive the jobbers to the Float's and BK Kades if they don't want to see it shut down. That is a side I had not thought of.


This is the best part about this patch. It gives jobbers a interest in what happens to the island and can overall will hopefully make filling up ships for flotillas easier


Lets make the BK close down the trading posts but not the shoppes! It would give players more incentive to sink the flotillas, and shoppe owners won't be screwed over every week by new flags taking over the island.

Shoppes need to exist on the island so people blockade it and pay us 9999, otherwise it would just be a single flag owning the island to protect a trading post after the shoppes are gone, and I wouldn't even get a chance to navigate in a blockade because my flag wouldn't gain anything from blockading the island anyways, except maybe having a nice portrait with their name on it while they just do the same thing as the previous island owners.
[May 6, 2018 3:57:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Tierios



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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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Having the BK dust the shoppes is vital so that flags can't have a BK do their defending for them and control the SY's at the same time. The month to dust a ship is already long enough, having the BK start that process makes it more likely for a flag to attack the BK to regain control of their shoppes. It also means that if no one decides to fight the BK or fights it a week later for example means the shoppe dusting process is already underway and makes the island more appealing as the attacking flag has to defend one less time to get use of the most valuable buildings on the island.
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Scar On Obsidian Ocean
[May 6, 2018 4:48:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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I don't mind that BK's can close down shops. It gives a new way in dealing with a scuttle. They have closed down the trinket thingy building? there is no reason for that.


BKs have never maintained attraction buildings, but as mentioned earlier in this thread, they won't do anything with them (unless that changed for some reason) if there's poe left in the coffers for rent.
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[May 7, 2018 6:19:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
freedomwater



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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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TLDR Summery: BK's should close any things they can close when they take control of an island.

I will look into adding this feature in the upcoming release. For now, the BKs will leave the stalls alone, but we can discuss that further if it seems like those should be closed as well. The BKs will not re-open any closed shoppes.


"Looking into" adding this feature is not a confirmation of it definitely happening. A confirmation would be, this feature has been added for the upcoming release. A confirmation would be a statement made in release notes, not a vague comment that does not in any way imply it would be actually added to the game, especially not as a surprise element.

There was no consent in allowing the trading post and real estate to get caught up in this wicked change. Consent would be knowing ahead of time that if KTP chose to scuttle they would lose the SY, as well as enrage the entire ocean by disabling the TP. Then they'd have the choice of becoming villains on this ocean, or keep on defending every weekend in blockade after blockade, flotilla after flotilla.

This is something that should have been done on a less active ocean if you were going to spring it on anyone, to test the waters of what the reaction would be. My guess is you knew what the reaction would be, and are rubbing your hands together, cackling in delight at the chaos. Which, cool cool cool, but you're losing paying customers if the decision is not reversed, that I can guarantee.

Give flags an even footing for this change in the future by reopening the SY and the attractions, and let the future island owners deal with this new (very stupid, unpopular btw) mechanic.
[May 7, 2018 9:48:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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This is something that should have been done on a less active ocean if you were going to spring it on anyone, to test the waters of what the reaction would be.

While I agree that the complete lack of release notes for the most recent release is bad and that this should have been listed as a change, I do need to point out that GH explicitly said that Obsidian was where major changes would be made. This kind of change is exactly in line with what they said and more radical changes should be made.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[May 7, 2018 10:08:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Uncabear

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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Thanks Filtyjake for closing Obsidian and giving everyone another reason to go back and play on Merry and Emmy !
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Unca
Born on Malachite sailing all oceans
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[May 7, 2018 10:00:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Monliz

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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This is something that should have been done on a less active ocean if you were going to spring it on anyone, to test the waters of what the reaction would be.

While I agree that the complete lack of release notes for the most recent release is bad and that this should have been listed as a change, I do need to point out that GH explicitly said that Obsidian was where major changes would be made. This kind of change is exactly in line with what they said and more radical changes should be made.


I concur with your statement so I won't repeat. In this strand and in another here on Game Design I have read so much bashing of the flag Keep the Peace. Every flag on Obsidian that is involved in cading are old salts and pretty much have used scuttling as a tool for whatever purpose, whether it be a defense mechanic or just for fun. The bashing needs to stop. Any other flag could have made the same mistake since developers have not been more clear about the changes to scuttling outcomes. The real issue here is lack of communication with the the player base which has been an ongoing problem for years and years. Personally, when the development of Obsidian was announced and discussion was opened with players, I said to myself, finally! Unfortunately, open discussion has stopped. What happened at Loggerhead is collateral damage of this lack of communication on the part of Grey Havens. So, please, let's move forward and see what changes need to happen to avoid this from happening again. I, for one, would love to see a revival of the monarch meetings of old come back. When the developers held open discussions with actual people who played in real time. This is just one suggestion and one I have made many, many times. It would help with the disconnect and players would become more vested.
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Monlizzy
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Queen of Imperial Coalition on the Meridian Ocean
Queen of Lion's Bane on the Obsidian Ocean
Shawe tells ye, "would not be surprised if you were a man the way you act half the time lol"
[May 7, 2018 10:16:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Popcorn1



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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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And now the change log appears
I believe since this change log was just done on 5/8/2018 and the current island owners had no notice of what would happen the shoppes/trading post/estate agent should be turned on until Saturday at noon game time. No refunds or other compensation should be made, as there was no notice of what changes were done. And let the flaming continue.
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Yum Chiles!
[May 8, 2018 12:45:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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And now the change log appears
I believe since this change log was just done on 5/8/2018 and the current island owners had no notice of what would happen the shoppes/trading post/estate agent should be turned on until Saturday at noon game time. No refunds or other compensation should be made, as there was no notice of what changes were done. And let the flaming continue.


There was nothing official documented to say whether or not the BK would turn the buildings off when taking over an island anyway.

So, what exactly is your point? The OMs should gift the previous holders of the island with a shoppe because every minute detail of how the game works isn't posted by Cronus?
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[May 8, 2018 1:36:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Popcorn1



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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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And now the change log appears
I believe since this change log was just done on 5/8/2018 and the current island owners had no notice of what would happen the shoppes/trading post/estate agent should be turned on until Saturday at noon game time. No refunds or other compensation should be made, as there was no notice of what changes were done. And let the flaming continue.


There was nothing official documented to say whether or not the BK would turn the buildings off when taking over an island anyway.

So, what exactly is your point? The OMs should gift the previous holders of the island with a shoppe because every minute detail of how the game works isn't posted by Cronus?

As the BK didn't turn off shoppes when previously scuttled, the players of the game had no knowledge that the same action would lead to different results. If you did something 10 times and 10 times the same result happened, how would you know that the 11th time would be completely different without some changelog to the game.

All the talk about "OMs/Dev" don't have to post the details of updates is false. When a major update happens, informing your customers (because we are the customers) is what is needed. When you fail to inform your consumers, you lose. Period.

The fact that the dub delivery fees have just been returned for previous ship orders shows that they understand it's a customer service error. And the BK turning off the lights is the same type of error. Thus, it needs to be rectified in order to be fair to everyone.
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Yum Chiles!
[May 8, 2018 3:13:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Opsat



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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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Cronus announced on May 9, 2018 4:10:54 AM (is the date/time as I see it):

 
Obsidian: - As per this thread Brigand Kings taking over an island will now start the 30 day shutdown timer on shoppes, island attractions, and estate agents.


and linked to Forculus's reply on Mar 21, 2018 3:13:23 AM:

 
 
TLDR Summery: BK's should close any things they can close when they take control of an island.
I will look into adding this feature in the upcoming release. For now, the BKs will leave the stalls alone, but we can discuss that further if it seems like those should be closed as well. The BKs will not re-open any closed shoppes.


This is my understanding of Cronus's announcement:

That reply of Forculus was, for sure, a definite show that they will be implementing the change suggested (BK's will close any thing they can close when they take control of an island, but not stalls.) And they will be implementing it in the 'upcoming release'.
At that point, they weren't just considering the change, they've already decided to do it. We just don't know when it will be implemented. But we should have expected it already from that point on.

They say there is 'currently' a problem with the changelog. I don't know if this is an on and off problem? The last changelog I see is May 1 announcing the release of the galleon. Before that was Feb 28.
Perhaps there was a release in between that contained the BK take over change? Which is why the change was not specified in the May 1 changelog? But that we didn't see the change spelled out in the changelog because they had an issue updating it then? I don't know.
Point is: it is my impression from Cronus's announcement that to them, Forculus's Mar 21 comment was sufficient.

Looking at the blockade history from yppedia:
- AH lost Loggerhead and Magpie to the BK on March 18 (before the implementation).
- KtP took Loggerhead on March 24.
- The BK successfully defended Magpie on April 14.
- On April 23, we had PvP blockades on Loggerhead, while CiS took Magpie.
- On April 28, we had PvP blockades.
- This last blockade (May) is the first time (from a possible change post March 21) that BKs tried to take over islands and succeeded, so we are seeing the effect for the first time. Note: we are seeing it for the first time, but I expect this would have happened earlier if a BK took over an island earlier, and we should have expected it already.
(Note: if anyone saw my first post, this part was wrong, I hope I got it right now. :) )

More of my 2 cents:

Part of me also thinks that GH should have tried a little harder to make announcements elsewhere if they had a problem with the changelog when it was released (whenever that was), but... being that GH is, I imagine, being manned by just a handful of people now, I tend to want to be more understanding of them if they are unable to make formal announcements of things.
It's not as if they're not doing their jobs - they've been working on the war galleon, released it, and is continuing to work on it. Yesterday, I received my 10 dub refund for my Alice Class. I am happy enough.

Was this BK thing a 'service customer error' like the dub delivery fees that were refunded? I don't think so.
The dub delivery fees was a mistake in the program that they have now corrected, and they are refunding the excess dubs paid/charged before the correction.
The BK thing, it seems, all happened correctly as programmed, as intended. The only problem was the lack of announcement and, well... I refer to what I said in the previous paragraphs.

It is unfortunate that KtP is feeling the brunt of this situation. If I'm not poor, I would donate some PoE/dubs to you if that will lessen the blow you feel. (I am poor, though, so whatever I can donate to you would probably not make much of a dent. I might be willing to part with the 10 dubs that was refunded to me. Let me know. )
But I think this may be one of those situations, like in RL, where you expected something but something else happened, or it backfired somehow. Such is life. All we can do is make the most of it.

Peace everyone!
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Opsat on all oceans.
(Also Opsat-East on Emerald and Meridian, and Opsat-West on Cerulean.)
And on Obsidian: Opsat, Meghost, and Meshadow.
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by Opsat at May 8, 2018 9:58:41 PM]
[May 8, 2018 9:42:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Promestein



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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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A half assed shady post detailing 0 information does not serve as an announcement.

It's fine that the om's can put up a finger to a big flag though, once it happens to themselves the world becomes too small however!
[May 8, 2018 10:33:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Popcorn1



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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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To make sure the BK scuttle shield doesn't happen anymore, just allow player flags to be able to attack during a BK attack. Multiple flags can already attack if a BK holds the island, just make it so that multiple flags can drop on a BK attack as well. This will stop any BK shield from player flags. Easy enough to do.
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Yum Chiles!
[May 9, 2018 6:55:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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To make sure the BK scuttle shield doesn't happen anymore, just allow player flags to be able to attack during a BK attack. Multiple flags can already attack if a BK holds the island, just make it so that multiple flags can drop on a BK attack as well. This will stop any BK shield from player flags. Easy enough to do.


Great Solution, why if multiple flags can drop on an island at the same time can't the BK and other flags drop at the same time. The only hook would be BK's allow for the defender to pick the time if I am not mistaken, which could make it difficult to organize but still a great idea.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Want Kade Support post a intent....

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.
[May 9, 2018 9:42:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Promestein



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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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To make sure the BK scuttle shield doesn't happen anymore, just allow player flags to be able to attack during a BK attack. Multiple flags can already attack if a BK holds the island, just make it so that multiple flags can drop on a BK attack as well. This will stop any BK shield from player flags. Easy enough to do.


Great Solution, why if multiple flags can drop on an island at the same time can't the BK and other flags drop at the same time. The only hook would be BK's allow for the defender to pick the time if I am not mistaken, which could make it difficult to organize but still a great idea.


That could also work in tandem with the other flags timing on the attack however.
[May 9, 2018 1:37:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Twistedblake

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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To make sure the BK scuttle shield doesn't happen anymore, just allow player flags to be able to attack during a BK attack. Multiple flags can already attack if a BK holds the island, just make it so that multiple flags can drop on a BK attack as well. This will stop any BK shield from player flags. Easy enough to do.


I think this is honestly the best idea mentioned in this thread. As Scar already mentioned, his flag had every intention to defend against the BK... the problem is no one else can enter the blockade and actually WIN the island. Only the BK or CIS could own the island after the weekend and having an arguably weak BK attack your island makes it easy to defend. You could say: Well they had to spend poe to defend against the BK, but i guarantee you that defending against a weak BK for 1 round is much much cheaper than defending in a PvP blockade would have been.
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-Brocko
[May 9, 2018 11:01:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
magexen

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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To make sure the BK scuttle shield doesn't happen anymore, just allow player flags to be able to attack during a BK attack. Multiple flags can already attack if a BK holds the island, just make it so that multiple flags can drop on a BK attack as well. This will stop any BK shield from player flags. Easy enough to do.


I think this is honestly the best idea mentioned in this thread. As Scar already mentioned, his flag had every intention to defend against the BK... the problem is no one else can enter the blockade and actually WIN the island. Only the BK or CIS could own the island after the weekend and having an arguably weak BK attack your island makes it easy to defend. You could say: Well they had to spend poe to defend against the BK, but i guarantee you that defending against a weak BK for 1 round is much much cheaper than defending in a PvP blockade would have been.


This would make so much sense, at the moment, even if you are at war with the defenders of an Island, if you enter the blockade and win any rounds, it just counts as defending the Island that you are at war with.

Just having the weak brigand king attack the island forces the results to: Either Brigand King Takes the Island or Island is successfully defended.

And with the weak brigand kings, you can pretty much sink them in one round out of 5 and you win without needing too many jobbers.

So it really does result in just a perfect defense of the island without allowing any PVP despite Obsidian being a PVP Oriented Server.
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Elf - Obsidian
[May 9, 2018 11:33:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
Captntipper



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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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People in this thread have asked once and again (and it's reasonable that they did) for OMs/Devs to post the changelog. Now that it's posted, and since no one else has said it, I just wanna say thank you Cronus!
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Captnnemo - Obsidian
[May 10, 2018 5:58:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Bauds

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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Disagreed on changing how BK blockades work. The Obisidian alliance rings are greatly unbalanced in terms of wealthy flags as it is, with the wealthiest trying to win by attrition, burning out the coffers of other flags. This will just make it worse.

If flags weren't so insistent on maxing pay from the start, and trying to compete on pay outside of the automated system, then this would be more feasible. As it is it would make blockading even more one sided.

Also, this is a game, and sometimes people are unable to play it for whatever reason. Blockading is an expensive and time consuming process that cannot be done every weekend. KTP's motivation for scuttling last weekend was that a lot of their blockade team could not make it those days; this is true of other flags too. If it gets out that most of a flag's blockade team can't make it on a particular weekend, another flag will drop. The scuttle mechanic only works on certain weekends so islands can still be blockaded, and the mechanic existed for years for good reason.
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Bauds of Obsidian, formerly Cerulean and before that Midnight.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Bauds at May 11, 2018 5:59:08 AM]
[May 11, 2018 5:57:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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Disagreed on changing how BK blockades work. The Obisidian alliance rings are greatly unbalanced in terms of wealthy flags as it is, with the wealthiest trying to win by attrition, burning out the coffers of other flags. This will just make it worse.

If flags weren't so insistent on maxing pay from the start, and trying to compete on pay outside of the automated system, then this would be more feasible. As it is it would make blockading even more one sided.

Also, this is a game, and sometimes people are unable to play it for whatever reason. Blockading is an expensive and time consuming process that cannot be done every weekend. KTP's motivation for scuttling last weekend was that a lot of their blockade team could not make it those days; this is true of other flags too. If it gets out that most of a flag's blockade team can't make it on a particular weekend, another flag will drop. The scuttle mechanic only works on certain weekends so islands can still be blockaded, and the mechanic existed for years for good reason.


Seems like a good thought to expand the teams and train others to blockade, but its held to such a small group that only the best will do. Its one of the reasons most really don't want to even get into the blockade scene, most flags have there navers (and others use outside teams), and that is fine then they get the whole flag to pay up... Why not let some new navers have a shot. If you can't defend that is on the flag for not being prepared by training others or having the ships stock or poe or allies to defend for them. The fact that some can swipe to win isn't right but that is the way the dub oceans work.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Want Kade Support post a intent....

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.
[May 11, 2018 6:41:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
dangerdann

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Re: Changes for Obsidian, BK take over Reply to this Post
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Disagreed on changing how BK blockades work. The Obisidian alliance rings are greatly unbalanced in terms of wealthy flags as it is, with the wealthiest trying to win by attrition, burning out the coffers of other flags. This will just make it worse.

If flags weren't so insistent on maxing pay from the start, and trying to compete on pay outside of the automated system, then this would be more feasible. As it is it would make blockading even more one sided.

Also, this is a game, and sometimes people are unable to play it for whatever reason. Blockading is an expensive and time consuming process that cannot be done every weekend. KTP's motivation for scuttling last weekend was that a lot of their blockade team could not make it those days; this is true of other flags too. If it gets out that most of a flag's blockade team can't make it on a particular weekend, another flag will drop. The scuttle mechanic only works on certain weekends so islands can still be blockaded, and the mechanic existed for years for good reason.


Seems like a good thought to expand the teams and train others to blockade, but its held to such a small group that only the best will do. Its one of the reasons most really don't want to even get into the blockade scene, most flags have there navers (and others use outside teams), and that is fine then they get the whole flag to pay up... Why not let some new navers have a shot. If you can't defend that is on the flag for not being prepared by training others or having the ships stock or poe or allies to defend for them. The fact that some can swipe to win isn't right but that is the way the dub oceans work.


Because if you're being 9999'd every weekend (whether you swipe or whether you work for it, makes no difference), you're not going to risk new navvers that might make mistakes. There is sometimes too much at stake to risk it, certainly whilst there are only two blockade-able islands.

However, CiS had four rookie navvers in our last blockade v Brenda - cultivated and trained through competitive cade sim. We have a system of training which also includes starting on smaller ships in big blockades and working through the ranks (something that has been done for many years on this game) whilst continuing to use cade sim to help improve player's skills, without the pressure of losing the flag's hard earned PoE. Half of our blockade team were relatively inexperienced at the start of this ocean, but through both cade sim and the multiple blockades that we have competed in, we have built a team that understands each other, works well together and communicates properly.

You can't just throw loads of people in and hope that they work well together. It isn't a load of ships running around doing whatever they want, it's ships working together in smaller teams. But we have many, many navvers working through the ranks and we watch and we observe who communicates well with who, who needs more work on a certain part of their nav skill and who is ready to take the leap to join the main blockade team.

Just because on the surface it doesn't look as though teams are being expanded or curated - doesn't mean that there isn't a lot going on behind the scenes.
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Dangerdann on Cerulean/Emerald
Blighty on Obsidian

Elitist1 wrote: 
And on the stage steps yet another puppet ../ cues Dann sing it !

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