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hidemyhoney

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Joined: Dec 26, 2017
Posts: 244
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Re: I got banned TWICE for false positive botting and you should be scared for your account Reply to this Post
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For those who are looking at standings, remember there are apparently bots of many kinds including those for things other than puzzles. I doubt this is the case here, but you can't judge whether someone is using a bot from their pirate page.

Just an add-on to this point he mentioned. There used to be discussion a month ago about people idling on puzzles. Manipulating the 60m idle logoff is bannable. This can take the form of a bot automating mouse movement, a keyboard with macros (intentionally or otherwise) set up, or even leaving an eraser on your keyboard or placing your laser mouse above a watch surface. Non-exhaustive but you get the idea.


I've caught Ozzy doing it like 10 times on a navy ship gunning. So feel free to catch anyone with a long idle time on a puzzle :P with a screenshot in this thread!
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I love Honey

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, make a new one for the established players!

Add Skilled swabbies for SMHs/flotillas!
[Feb 5, 2018 10:18:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Killua1



Joined: Jul 6, 2017
Posts: 13
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Re: I got banned TWICE for false positive botting and you should be scared for your account Reply to this Post
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For those who are looking at standings, remember there are apparently bots of many kinds including those for things other than puzzles. I doubt this is the case here, but you can't judge whether someone is using a bot from their pirate page.

Just an add-on to this point he mentioned. There used to be discussion a month ago about people idling on puzzles. Manipulating the 60m idle logoff is bannable. This can take the form of a bot automating mouse movement, a keyboard with macros (intentionally or otherwise) set up, or even leaving an eraser on your keyboard or placing your laser mouse above a watch surface. Non-exhaustive but you get the idea.



I have personlly not done this before, but a good possibility to mention. I haven’t received a reply yet so hopefully they’re able to come to a conclusion
[Feb 6, 2018 4:17:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 1041
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Re: I got banned TWICE for false positive botting and you should be scared for your account Reply to this Post
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For those who are looking at standings, remember there are apparently bots of many kinds including those for things other than puzzles. I doubt this is the case here, but you can't judge whether someone is using a bot from their pirate page.

Just an add-on to this point he mentioned. There used to be discussion a month ago about people idling on puzzles. Manipulating the 60m idle logoff is bannable. This can take the form of a bot automating mouse movement, a keyboard with macros (intentionally or otherwise) set up, or even leaving an eraser on your keyboard or placing your laser mouse above a watch surface. Non-exhaustive but you get the idea.


I've caught Ozzy doing it like 10 times on a navy ship gunning. So feel free to catch anyone with a long idle time on a puzzle :P with a screenshot in this thread!


You have found Ozzy with a idle time over 60 min? If not their is no issue with lazing on a station for experience which was covered in a different thread .
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.

Which ever way the wind blows...
[Feb 6, 2018 6:05:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
EmpressTamar

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Joined: May 7, 2012
Posts: 807
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Re: I got banned TWICE for false positive botting and you should be scared for your account Reply to this Post
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For those who are looking at standings, remember there are apparently bots of many kinds including those for things other than puzzles. I doubt this is the case here, but you can't judge whether someone is using a bot from their pirate page.

Just an add-on to this point he mentioned. There used to be discussion a month ago about people idling on puzzles. Manipulating the 60m idle logoff is bannable. This can take the form of a bot automating mouse movement, a keyboard with macros (intentionally or otherwise) set up, or even leaving an eraser on your keyboard or placing your laser mouse above a watch surface. Non-exhaustive but you get the idea.

Yes this is accurate. I know someone who was banned for botting for putting a book on their keyboard to avoid idling off.
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Empresstamar of Emerald.
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Gorgeous avatar by by Scythera <3
[Feb 7, 2018 9:40:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ACJD



Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 586
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Re: I got banned TWICE for false positive botting and you should be scared for your account Reply to this Post
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Also, if having a laser mouse was sufficient enough to trigger a false positive, I reckon there'd be a far greater number of false positive bans.


Just to weigh in on this, it's possible that the latest specialized hardware could be configured to exceed the tolerances of faulty detection software. Keep in mind that, in my experiences, PP's cheating/botting detection logic is fairly primitive. There are semi-limited ways in which the OS interfaces with the JVM. Tracking keystrokes and mouse pointer positions is one simple way to attempt to detect unusual (non-human) behavior, but it's extremely prone to false positives or manipulation. I think back to the original roll-out of bilge-bot detection software which apparently falsely identified a large volume of legitimate keyboard-using bilgers as botters. It seems plausible that if there is simplistic botting detection logic involving mouse pointer positions, that it could be incorrectly triggered by legitimate users who have configured their pointer speeds or sensitivities to exceed values that the developers did not expect were possible when those assumptions were made on older hardware.

Basically, in my mind, enough doubt has been cast on the effectiveness of PP's botting detection logic to consider that OP's claims could be valid. At the very least, I think the community deserves greater transparency into this process to gain confidence in its legitimacy. Grey Havens can be more transparent about the process in ways that won't provide material information for illegitimate users to circumvent the system.
[Feb 7, 2018 1:35:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BHorror

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Joined: Jul 4, 2005
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Re: I got banned TWICE for false positive botting and you should be scared for your account Reply to this Post
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I don't know Gon enough to vouch for him, but I did see the exact same thing happen to another pirate I knew much better. He too was eventually given another chance after I helped him keep asking to be allowed back, and I was really worried there might be some other sort of false detection.

It sounds like it's possible there are some false detections going around, but I'm not sure how it can be investigated. GH certainly can't share what they are detecting, because it will help bot makers avoid it, and I think the majority of players do agree with their harsh treatment to actual botters, but once we start to believe all the "I was banned for no reason claims" I don't know what good it is accomplishing anymore.

While I don't know Gon, reputation of being a long time player should be worth something. It'd be nice to get an indepth rundown of your hardware, and the type of program you are running alongside your client. While something harmless like Discord alone can't be the problem, since so many of us use it, maybe you are using a perfect storm of software and hardware that just looks fishy somehow? It's hard to say, and something you'd not be able to look into without some GH help I think..

All of this said, of course, is assuming you are telling the truth. I see no reason to believe otherwise, but I do have limited information.
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Horror from Emerald and Obsidian
[Feb 8, 2018 7:10:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 1041
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Re: I got banned TWICE for false positive botting and you should be scared for your account Reply to this Post
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reputation of being a long time player should be worth something


I agree with this but not sure how to measure it Jolly Rodgers well all you do to get those is make an account X amount of years ago. Hours played, some of those who are active are Banned now.

I really Hope the OM's are following this post. It certainly needs to be addressed and we need to stop seeing pirates kicked but then again if they are cheating that needs to be dealt with also.

It would be great to see a better punishment system, something along the lines of suspensions and seizures. Clearly they need to make the punishment fit the violations but pemabans and re banning players who want to play for evading the ban because they want to so bad to play again. We need a new system and more pirates, their are to many claims of false bans, and if their are RMT bans why is that, and can it be delt with? Is it because kades are so expensive people will cheat to win because they can't afford to pay to win?

Example
First Offence 1 month suspension

Second Offence your pirate page is marked with a symbol showing your a known cheater 2 Months suspension and every thing is seized no shops/stalls ships or poe you start over if you come back.

Third Offence 4 months and your start from scratch again and all building you have access to chest of are emptied of poe. Let per pressure work. Must pay a $50 real money fine to return.

Fourth Offence 6 month suspicion and you can not hold rank above pirates, no more sailing for you. Must pay a $50 real money fine to return

I can't imagine people would stay and keep cheating after that but keep taking everything they bought, and make them start over. Perhaps mark the pirate page with a mark for every ban.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.

Which ever way the wind blows...
[Feb 8, 2018 7:43:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

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Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 243
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Re: I got banned TWICE for false positive botting and you should be scared for your account Reply to this Post
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It would be great to see a better punishment system, something along the lines of suspensions and seizures.

Jake you're missing the main point here. There's already tempban hammers for what they deem to be less major incidents.

Going from zero to permaban is fine for the serious offences, but only if they're genuinely guilty. No matter how many "tiers" of punishment you impose, false positives would trivialise the system and you'd still see posts like this.
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Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Feb 8, 2018 10:16:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 1041
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Re: I got banned TWICE for false positive botting and you should be scared for your account Reply to this Post
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It would be great to see a better punishment system, something along the lines of suspensions and seizures.

Jake you're missing the main point here. There's already tempban hammers for what they deem to be less major incidents.

Going from zero to permaban is fine for the serious offences, but only if they're genuinely guilty. No matter how many "tiers" of punishment you impose, false positives would trivialise the system and you'd still see posts like this.


Sorry my reply wasn't as clear I am more interested in the seizing at some point of the process you spoke of. Seizure of the ill gotten gains will help end the benefits of cheating. I don't know the punishment system I think I got a warning for misspelling a swear word once.

Example: Stan who admitted to cheating and ignoring warnings and temp bans Stalls are still up and running. So cheat and the ill gotten gains are still in the game run by their friends. I want them seized at some point of the process. It would discourage the cheating. Yes that got off the OP topic but still needs to be looked at. Sadly kades are so expensive and peoples desires to donate to look cool they will take the risks to make the poe, and that stays in the game as does the stuff, then they come back evading the ban and their friend of course will hook them up. /e ends rant on leaving the ill gotten gains to be used.

As far as False Positives I am still not positive it was false. We have only heard one side of the story. I and many other players probably are using a Death Adler Mouse as it very popular, I have never been banned or warned. I am not tech savy but I have understood they don't want and consider short cut/binds to be a form of cheating, so if those are used its not a false positive because the mouse is performing multiple actions with one button. Again not tech savy and my son tried explaining this to me I am not even sure its possible I only bought the mouse for the # of clicks it can take before death.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.

Which ever way the wind blows...
[Feb 9, 2018 5:03:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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