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rlpowell



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Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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After not having played in a very long time, my gf (who's been playing every day for 15 years or something :D ) asked me to help with her distillery, because she hates distilling, whereas I've quite enjoyed it.

It has gotten much, *much* harder since I last played, though. I'm getting "good" for CC^5 !

What does it take to get better than "good" these days?

She really needs expert labor, and I've no idea how to get from where I'm at to Renowned.
[Jan 31, 2018 9:46:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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It's been a very long time since CC5 did well, from what I remember. I haven't distilled in forever (I stopped as the curve climbed), but I would be surprised if anything less than a CC10 could get expert labor. But that's just a guess.
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Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
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[Jan 31, 2018 2:53:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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Also, there was a change to distilling quite a while ago where if you got a CC^12, you could keep going until you sent up a bad column. This raised the bar quite a bit.

I love distilling, but I don't think I've ever gotten much past a cc^6.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Jan 31, 2018 4:12:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Convention

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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I trained for about 3 months, 2 years ago, and got to the point of consistent CC9-10s and, with some luck, CC12s. Since then I quit distilling because the curve just keeps getting harder and harder, but it definitely is possible to get the odd incred if you spend the time.
[Jan 31, 2018 6:05:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
lady_maeror

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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My biggest problem is not the fact that the puzzle gets a higher curved at end game, ultimately that’s what the differences in incredibles on a ship is between say two gunners. But that you can perform a cc^5, burn some browns and blacks, then do another cc^7 to finish the puzzle and get a good, but do a cc^11 or cc^12 and still get a good. I feel cc^10-12 should fill in the excellent category and cc^13 and above is incredible. Really disheartening basically completing the puzzle perfectly and falling on a good.
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[Jan 31, 2018 7:47:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rlpowell



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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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So does anyone know what it actually takes to get an excellent these days?
[Jan 31, 2018 9:36:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
lady_maeror

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I was a Meridian player but now only can be found on Obsidian. Some days an excellent is cc^12+ but usually its cc^13 minimum
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Aeyelle of the Viridian Meridian Ocean
Arianne of the Obsidian Ocean
[Jan 31, 2018 10:19:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
henryrules10

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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For me CC13 seems to be Incredible only about 25% of the time, depending on spices. I've never gotten higher than a Good on Obsidian with a CC11.

The real solution is to make the puzzle more appealing. Either that or force pirates to do it at swordpoint XD
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[Feb 2, 2018 7:53:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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The real solution is to make the puzzle more appealing. Either that or force pirates to do it at swordpoint XD

Or, make it more useful to provide just basic labor. For most of YPP history, bnavvers mostly bought only rum and rum requires 33% expert labor. The way the game's scoring curve works, only 15% of all distillers can provide expert, leading to a huge undersupply of labor. With the advent of KH, grog is used in lifeboats/rowboats, but still, it isn't enough. If basic distilling was used as much as basic shipwrightery, the scoring curve would dramatically shift.

The best solution I've heard of is to make all the booze recipes generate rum, just at different amounts. That is, the "rum" recipe would generate 10 unites of rum, but the "grog" recipe would only generate 6 units of rum and "swill" would produce 4 A distillery that only had basic labor could still produce rum through the "swill" recipe trading off more cane/wood for cheaper and easier to get labor
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Feb 2, 2018 9:02:10 AM]
[Feb 2, 2018 8:48:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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The best solution I've heard of is to make all the booze recipes generate rum, just at different amounts. That is, the "rum" recipe would generate 10 unites of rum, but the "grog" recipe would only generate 6 units of rum and "swill" would produce 4 A distillery that only had basic labor could still produce rum through the "swill" recipe trading off more cane/wood for cheaper and easier to get labor

Preface: I'm part of the 15% you mentioned, so I recognise a possible bias in my opinion.

I disagree. I've always thought of the "Swill works, but Fine rum lasts longer" message as a hint that fine rum is better. And I believe people have deduced that fine rum is indeed better in terms of Proof and Volume (vessel hold concerns). Isn't that the reward for Expert labour? Similar to how Expert blacksmith unlocks Falchion, Skilled unlocks Rapier, and Basic is limited to Foil and Short Sword. You can't get the Falchion by mass-producing Basic, and I don't think introducing that mechanic specifically into Distil for fine rum makes sense.

If you're putting forward that we use this idea for all crafting puzzles to unlock all shoppe products on the other hand, then you might have an idea worth exploring.
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Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Feb 2, 2018 10:02:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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The best solution I've heard of is to make all the booze recipes generate rum, just at different amounts. That is, the "rum" recipe would generate 10 unites of rum, but the "grog" recipe would only generate 6 units of rum and "swill" would produce 4 A distillery that only had basic labor could still produce rum through the "swill" recipe trading off more cane/wood for cheaper and easier to get labor

I disagree. I've always thought of the "Swill works, but Fine rum lasts longer" message as a hint that fine rum is better. And I believe people have deduced that fine rum is indeed better in terms of Proof and Volume (vessel hold concerns).

That message from the game is indeed correct, swill does work, but it takes 5 units of swill to last as long as 2 units of rum. If the price of swill is less than 2.5 times that of rum, it is more cost effective. For many years, I found grog to almost always be the most cost effective booze to buy. Swill required too many raw materials, rum required too much expert labor. With the addition of the Kraken, grog is no longer almost always the best, but rum is still rarely the most cost effective.

For what it is worth, the volume saved by using rum instead of swill almost never matters. The difference is swamped by cannonballs and treasure chests and such.

 
Isn't that the reward for Expert labour?

Rum needing less cane/wood to make your ship sail for the same amount of time is indeed a reward for expert labor.


 
Similar to how Expert blacksmith unlocks Falchion, Skilled unlocks Rapier, and Basic is limited to Foil and Short Sword. You can't get the Falchion by mass-producing Basic, and I don't think introducing that mechanic specifically into Distil for fine rum makes sense.

The difference is that small cannonballs require just basic labor and a lot of them get sold. You only need expert blacksmithing to make some swords. If you only needed basic distilling labor to make the most popular type of booze, then there wouldn't be a problem.

 
If you're putting forward that we use this idea for all crafting puzzles to unlock all shoppe products on the other hand, then you might have an idea worth exploring.

Other types of shops don't have as serious an imbalance be need for labor types.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Feb 2, 2018 10:55:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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I don't know what the level is of distilling on cerulean I'm guessing its same as meridians, which I feel is fair but for around 8 months since obsidian was opened, CC14 still the barrier for incredible, and CC13 excellent mostly, as I've said in the past, free all crafting puzzles so then people can do the puzzles whenever and make the puzzles more active and appealing and if players want payment for their work, thats what the Labour badge is required for.
Then over time, we won't be bitching about CC14 incredible anymore, Distilling desperately needs this, the ocean needs this, if it doesn't then distill will become more irrel and it will turn out to be CC15 as incredible, CC14 excellent and I'm sure not many people want it to be like that. Whenever the curve says CC13 incredible 100% of the time, then that would be acceptable.
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Heckle

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Remove dead oceans, make a new one for the established players!

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by hidemyhoney at Feb 3, 2018 7:07:46 PM]
[Feb 3, 2018 7:06:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Legionaer

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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.
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"La madre dei cretini é sempre incinta."
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Legionaer at Feb 26, 2018 7:45:43 AM]
[Feb 4, 2018 5:02:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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I know post this is about Cerulean, but it is a general thing. Alchemistry has the same problem as distilling, plain 18 stars arent enough to get an incredible, on Obsidian at least.

I dont know how many of you remember, but roll back some many years, distilling didn't allow to go further than CC12 and alchemistry had 75 moves before you could make a fill, otherwise the most valuable bottle would break (now it's unlimited number of moves).

In general I don't agree that there should be a cap on skill, but placing a limit on how high a score can get (with the cc12/75 moves limit) might keep the scores in a tighter interval and maybe lower the requirements for an excell/incred. Capped or uncapped, the hierarchy between players would still be kept, only the differences would be lower than they are now.


I don't think you understand how the ranking/rating system works, the ocean needs more active puzzlers (ables/proficents or w/e), to make the curve easier, so therefore as many in the past have said that the OMs have ignored, make all crafting puzzles free all the time like piracy, and if you want payment for your labour hours buy a labour badge so you get payment for your labour work and for your hours to count towards orders and etc.
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Heckle

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Remove dead oceans, make a new one for the established players!

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[Feb 4, 2018 7:11:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Legionaer

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.
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"La madre dei cretini é sempre incinta."
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Legionaer at Feb 26, 2018 7:45:55 AM]
[Feb 4, 2018 8:28:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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The fact that few people play the puzzle is a problem, but the curve is also affected because those few that play manage to get those very high scores, if the game would automatically stop at cc12 the curve would still be made easier. It's not just the lack of persons, but the very high scores of the ones playing.

Making it free would help, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a hard af puzzle which needs a lot of work to get good at and which a casual pirate probably stops playing after a couple of sessions to never touch it again.

Hmm what would a CC12 cap do to competitions, just something you might want to think about. I understand of course, your focus is on those at the opposite end of the score curve. Distilling has always been unpopular, but I don't think nerfing the puzzle is the way to go. Some puzzles are more difficult to 'get into' than others, and that's fine isn't it?

Love the Free Crafting idea though. I can understand some aspects like blockades and sinking environments requiring more 'premium' access but crafting puzzles shouldn't be part of that, imo.
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Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Feb 4, 2018 9:23:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Legionaer

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.
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"La madre dei cretini é sempre incinta."
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Legionaer at Feb 26, 2018 7:46:08 AM]
[Feb 4, 2018 10:19:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
zapadapa

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Re: Better than "good" on Distilling on Cerulean? Reply to this Post
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I would like a "practice" version of Distilling with no time limit and no pay and no effect on stats. I just want to be able to play it a bit slower to be able to try some of the tips in the distilling guide without going into panic mode.

Regarding Alchemistry...on Emerald I literally never get lower than Incred. On Obsidian, the same game play gets me no higher than Excellent.

Similarly with Blacksmith...I had one grey piece left and it was still only Excellent.

So yes, it is harder to get high scores on Obsidian.
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[Feb 5, 2018 12:30:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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The fact that few people play the puzzle is a problem, but the curve is also affected because those few that play manage to get those very high scores, if the game would automatically stop at cc12 the curve would still be made easier. It's not just the lack of persons, but the very high scores of the ones playing.

Making it free would help, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a hard af puzzle which needs a lot of work to get good at and which a casual pirate probably stops playing after a couple of sessions to never touch it again.

Hmm what would a CC12 cap do to competitions, just something you might want to think about. I understand of course, your focus is on those at the opposite end of the score curve. Distilling has always been unpopular, but I don't think nerfing the puzzle is the way to go. Some puzzles are more difficult to 'get into' than others, and that's fine isn't it?

Love the Free Crafting idea though. I can understand some aspects like blockades and sinking environments requiring more 'premium' access but crafting puzzles shouldn't be part of that, imo.


Exactly, Free all crafting puzzles, and to make labour in shops and payment buy a labour badge to do so.
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Heckle

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Remove dead oceans, make a new one for the established players!

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[Feb 5, 2018 1:34:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Legionaer

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.
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"La madre dei cretini é sempre incinta."
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Legionaer at Feb 26, 2018 7:46:21 AM]
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DementedDuck

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I would like a "practice" version of Distilling with no time limit and no pay and no effect on stats. I just want to be able to play it a bit slower to be able to try some of the tips in the distilling guide without going into panic mode.

Regarding Alchemistry...on Emerald I literally never get lower than Incred. On Obsidian, the same game play gets me no higher than Excellent.

Similarly with Blacksmith...I had one grey piece left and it was still only Excellent.

So yes, it is harder to get high scores on Obsidian.

You should check out Dachimpy's distilling simulator. It's a little buggy sometimes, and you won't be able to move anywhere near as fluidly as you can in the actual game, but for practising certain moves/techniques and getting your head around how the pieces move with each other, it is very helpful. I used to play til I got stuck and send a screenshot to an ultimate friend so she could tell me what I did wrong and how to get myself out of it. Lots of us are more than willing to help an aspiring distiller improve, because we'd all like to get increds on CC12s again too!

On a different note, nerfing our ability to score highly is not the answer to the problem. Competition scoring aside, it'll kill the enjoyment for a lot of us at the top level. Distilling has always been a relatively unpopular puzzle, and yet there was certainly a time when a CC12 was enough to net you an incredible. In fact, CC12 should be benchmark for incredible because a perfect setup with average spawns will get you exactly CC12. The curve is whacked not only because there is a concentration of high-level distillers, but also a concentration of low-level distillers. We need the players in between, the players learning, but not yet at a high level, and the players who simply will never be at a high level (which is a position most people seem content to hold in every puzzle except distilling, for some reason). I think removing the cost to play the puzzle regularly is a good start to encouraging people to try the puzzle.
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Quitex

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Can we turn labor badges into something that unlocks double the hours of offline labor, and just make all of crafting puzzles open to be played at any time? Many casual players don't understand the economy enough to understand what labor looks like.
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Silverdream

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After not having played in a very long time, my gf (who's been playing every day for 15 years or something :D ) asked me to help with her distillery, because she hates distilling, whereas I've quite enjoyed it.

It has gotten much, *much* harder since I last played, though. I'm getting "good" for CC^5 !

What does it take to get better than "good" these days?

She really needs expert labor, and I've no idea how to get from where I'm at to Renowned.


Make 100 Master distiller (broad/master) with 10 friends or so and it will be easy to get a Renowned for passive expert labor. Not much work, maybe a few days for everyone. You wont win a competition, but you can produce fine rum. Easy game play .....
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Platia - Captain of Kraken Hunt - Monarch of Kraken Down (Emerald)

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[Feb 8, 2018 4:21:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Convention

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the players who simply will never be at a high level (which is a position most people seem content to hold in every puzzle except distilling, for some reason).

Kills your elbow :c
[Feb 10, 2018 1:43:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Prammy16

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Kills your elbow :c


Lolol so true. I sacrificed by ability to use my whole right arm when learning the puzzle, but now I love it.
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