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Filthyjake

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Can this be expanded on? Reply to this Post
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Harassment
 

Harassment can be defined as repeated actions that target an individual or group for the purpose of bringing about feelings of discomfort or distress.

Harassment is not allowed and may result in an account being banned from the game.


With a Pvp ocean Obsidian I have seen people attacked the disengage and are reengaged shortly after. Is 2 pvp attacks acceptable and 3 cross the line?

I have also seen bounties placed on people on most oceans and I like it, I think it adds to the game, that said by the definition that would be a TOS violation if they had feeling of discomfort or distress that pirate X is paying 100k per sink on pirate Y.

I am looking for clarification perhaps expanded details as whats acceptable number of PVP's in one session? If I see someone I dislike jobbing can I go PvP them every time or is that harassment? Are bounties allowed or not?
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.

Which ever way the wind blows...
[Oct 24, 2017 12:01:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Re: Can this be expanded on? Reply to this Post
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Generally speaking, in this game world, bounties are a mechanism for correction to poor social behaviors. They are not intended to be a tool for griefing. With that said, there are times where putting out bounties could be considered harassment [see: any bounties offered on Devonin just because of his views of PvP and Obsidian]. Note that I'm not saying such bounties actually are harassment, just that they are in my opinion.

I don't think there's a solid number of times PvP'ing a specific player crosses into the harassment/griefing arena. I think it's all situational.

If you're saying this happens:
scenario 1 wrote: 
majestrate attacks Filthyjake
10 turns pass with no hits on either side
majestrate disengages before Filthyjake
majestrate re-attacks Filthyjake

I would say that this is harassment because I disengaged just to try and avoid the cool down period (I don't know if that would even work).

If you're saying this happens:
scenario 2 wrote: 
majestrate attacks Filthyjake
10 turns pass with no hits on either side
Filthyjake disengages
majestrate stalks Filthyjake until the cool down period ends
majestrate attacks Filthyjake

Then I think that's acceptable. Though, I would suggest in those situations, that Filthyjake either dnav or find someone that can dnav, if he does not want to continue getting attacked. If the stalking/attacking continues, then after 3 times Filthyjake should probably petition an OM and let them decide how to handle the situation (even if it's "Sorry, doesn't look like a SotG/griefing/harassment issue to us" from the OM).

If majestrate is attacking other ships, and not just Filthyjake's, but can only ever manage to engage with Filthyjake, well, I'm not sure on that one. Because eventually majestrate is going to land shots on Filthyjake just due to jobber attrition on Filthyjake's ship.
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We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


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[Oct 24, 2017 3:57:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Can this be expanded on? Reply to this Post
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Harassment
 

Harassment can be defined as repeated actions that target an individual or group for the purpose of bringing about feelings of discomfort or distress.

Harassment is not allowed and may result in an account being banned from the game.


With a Pvp ocean Obsidian I have seen people attacked the disengage and are reengaged shortly after. Is 2 pvp attacks acceptable and 3 cross the line?

I don't know if the OMs have ever clarified it, but the 5-10 years ago, lots of players claimed that:

1) hitting "set sail" was consent to PvP

2) You need to let the other player hit a league point before you PvP them again. If they don't want to be PvP'ed, they shouldn't hit sail from the league point, they should just abandon the ship. If the hit "set sail" from the league point, well, see 1)

Now there were also a bunch of war conventions that players wrote up, but it turned out that OOO didn't agree with all the terms. So, take the above rules with a LARGE grain of salt.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Oct 24, 2017 5:49:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dexla

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Re: Can this be expanded on? Reply to this Post
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Harassment can be defined as repeated actions that target an individual or group for the purpose of bringing about feelings of discomfort or distress.

Harassment is not allowed and may result in an account being banned from the game.

Is it of any concern that the word "group" is there? Say Majestrate wants to go pvp-ing, but the most active targets on his route all happen to be Officers A, B, and C from the same most-active flag? Is he repeatedly harassing a group now?

*edit typo :P
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Dexla d'Midnight
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Dexla at Oct 25, 2017 6:10:27 AM]
[Oct 24, 2017 9:45:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Can this be expanded on? Reply to this Post
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Now there were also a bunch of war conventions that players wrote up, but it turned out that OOO didn't agree with all the terms. So, take the above rules with a LARGE grain of salt.


Hmm.... I like the war conventions in theory but their also some problems as the are long and well most would't remember or follow all of it.

 
Is it of any concern that the word "group" is there? Say Majestrate wants to go pvp-ing, but the most active targets on his route all happen to be Officers A, B, and C from the same most-active flag? If he repeatedly harassing a group now
?

Exactly why this needs to have an actual definition as the TOS says its a ban-able offence. Yet were on an ocean that encourages pvp. What if your ship auto attacks same group because you have it set to pvp and auto target.

WAR

More speculation on what is actually allowed but again nothing one can actually follow trusting they are safe.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.

Which ever way the wind blows...
[Oct 25, 2017 4:59:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Re: Can this be expanded on? Reply to this Post
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I feel the SotG debate coming on, because we're delving into the arena of intent in the actions that players take.
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#TeamEvil
Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3
[Oct 25, 2017 1:58:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Can this be expanded on? Reply to this Post
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It's pretty obvious why they haven't clarified the rule. They're leaving it to where the OMs have discretion and judgment on intention. If they made a clear, unambiguous line in the sand, you'd see people who would run right up to the line, being as abusive as they could without crossing that line, and saying, "I'm doing nothing wrong!"

You'll see similar rules in other games. Either you make broad, general rules and determine what is breaking the spirit of the rules, or you make lots of narrow, specific, clear-cut rules that will inevitably have holes for trolls to dance through.
[Oct 25, 2017 2:57:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Can this be expanded on? Reply to this Post
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It's pretty obvious why they haven't clarified the rule. They're leaving it to where the OMs have discretion and judgment on intention. If they made a clear, unambiguous line in the sand, you'd see people who would run right up to the line, being as abusive as they could without crossing that line, and saying, "I'm doing nothing wrong!"

You'll see similar rules in other games. Either you make broad, general rules and determine what is breaking the spirit of the rules, or you make lots of narrow, specific, clear-cut rules that will inevitably have holes for trolls to dance through.


I think we could get a lot narrower then feelings of discomfort or distress. I mean how do I know how your feeling? Clearly by others post in other forums any pvp would bring distress. I mean watch someone overjob someone for a SMH and the chat is full of distress and discomfort.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)

Who would have ever thought there would be a more worthless familiar then the Krackling's? But now we have owls that are farm raised.

Which ever way the wind blows...
[Oct 25, 2017 3:59:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Can this be expanded on? Reply to this Post
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Sure, but harassment generally requires it to be a repeated problem. We hunt you down and sink you once, so be it - that's part of the game. Doesn't matter how much you tart about it - that's part of the game, deal with it.

But if we do the same every time you set sail*, that's harassment.

Or even several times over a set period, to the point that it's evident that a specific pirate, crew, or flag is hunting the same player repeatedly.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Nek0jin at Oct 25, 2017 5:22:14 PM]
[Oct 25, 2017 5:20:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
HiimEric2001

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Re: Can this be expanded on? Reply to this Post
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To me, if you attack someone and they disengage you should need to at least wait until after they've hit another league point to try again. That is not currently practiced by some of the largest flags on Obsidian.

Sure, it's not hard coded into the game, but it seems to be obvious harassment to me. If you want to fight someone for 20 bnav turns in one league you should be shooting them at least 5 times before they can disengage. Attacking as soon as the 2 minutes is up is terrible sportsmanship, even if GH lets it slip.
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Cire
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Nemo says, "Cire has figured me out..."

[Nov 1, 2017 4:15:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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