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Jcmorgan6

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews Reply to this Post
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I wasn't the one who brought Cerulean into the argument in the first place.

And yes, I'm aware that Dub prices are lower than other oceans, but the fact remains that unless you're talking about people who routinely go on spectacular pillages, loss of a ship is a significant cost for the average player. And that's just considering rebuild cost, not even talking about loss of cargo.


Apologies, I was replying to the person above you, you posted between me opening the thread and replying. I've edited my post to include quotes for clarity.
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majestrate

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I would argue that is as much because it is an old, OLD ocean, and the resulting overall stockpile and cruft of ships has made the market drop due to a significantly lower demand. A newer ocean, even without the always-on PvP rule, would have similarly high demands for ships until most people had the ships that they wanted and used regularly. Although Obsidian has been officially open for several months, it was the official opening and announcement on Steam that resulted in a new surge of players, and therefore a new demand for ships.

Pretty sure I remember buying sloops for 14,000-18,000 eights back in 2004/2005.
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[Oct 13, 2017 2:39:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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So to elaborate on my initial reaction:
No to anything reducing the PvP on a PvP ocean
No to anything that allows players to pay anything - big or small - to avoid PvP. You can charge people 10mil PoE and they'll still find a way to pay it if given the option. It's not only stupid pay-to-not-play, but also means that funding efforts on the ocean are diverted from getting battle-ready to avoiding battles.
No to any new situation which creates additional safezones, areas where enemies can freely hang around and taunt without a risk of being attacked/sunk
No to requiring PvP-seeking ships to fulfill additional requirements before engaging in a PvP battle.

Loss is a part of the game in Dark Seas - and everyone is subject to it. There's no need to curb PvP to reduce the losses experienced through losing a PvP engagement. Just be better prepared overall.

Flags and crews are still very much getting used to the ways in which increased PvP availability on the ocean affects them. It will be political solutions within the game that will help resolve any unfairness currently felt by players who are not enjoying the fact they lost their WB while out pillaging and minding their own business.

It's how the game used to be played before everything just got stagnant from everyone having everything they wanted and no one having to actually plan properly for things, and the masterminds of amazing game political showdowns retired (or were banned -.-)
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Sagacious at Oct 13, 2017 3:20:31 PM]
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Filthyjake

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews Reply to this Post
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Flags and crews are still very much getting used to the ways in which increased PvP availability on the ocean affects them. It will be political solutions within the game that will help resolve any unfairness currently felt by players who are not enjoying the fact they lost their WB while out pillaging and minding their own business.

It's how the game used to be played before everything just got stagnant from everyone having everything they wanted and no one having to actually plan properly for things, and the masterminds of amazing game political showdowns retired (or were banned -.-)


Ah so the few on top of the social game will decided what happens sounds great every thing most hate about the other oceans.

So they were so good at the game they violated the rules which made them amazing masterminds? Seems off but I am certainly not one of the connected because I think for myself.
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[Oct 13, 2017 4:59:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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I'm sorry you feel politics shouldn't be part of a pirate game. Banned was added in as an unrelated tid-bit of history (and as a joke).

Asking for mechanics to opt out of PvP is just not the way it should be done right now. Play the game for longer than a few months and let's see what creative ways people come up with other than just resorting to suggestions that involve adding in unfun opt-out mechanics.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sagacious at Oct 13, 2017 5:19:26 PM]
[Oct 13, 2017 5:14:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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I'm sorry you feel politics shouldn't be part of a pirate game.


Its not that I don't I but its a game the politics are full time job, granted the lack of multiclinting makes it easier to keep track of who is actually who... incognito oh wait your either not on the ocean or in hiding. As that pirate has zero stats and not been on since sept. But hey the 200 followers have been around and will probably still be this time next year.
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[Oct 13, 2017 5:30:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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Yes politics is a full time job, as part of being a monarch, captain and royal/SO depending on the organisation. The point I am making is that players can be very creative in how they organise themselves in adapting to things in the game to make things less problematic. I have every faith that over time, there will be a fresh set of ideas and creative ways to resolve current concerns. A combination of dedicated types of players will take to specific tasks/roles within the game that previously were not a thing or rarely needed - like defending flag/crew voyages or helping to handle persistent PvP threats to their flag/crew. Diplomacy, alliances and pacts all form part of this as well.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sagacious at Oct 13, 2017 5:54:09 PM]
[Oct 13, 2017 5:52:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdl1963



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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews Reply to this Post
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Flags and crews are still very much getting used to the ways in which increased PvP availability on the ocean affects them. It will be political solutions within the game that will help resolve any unfairness currently felt by players who are not enjoying the fact they lost their WB while out pillaging and minding their own business.


So long as you're a player/crew/flag dialed in to the political puzzle. Or more correctly, dialed into the right political faction within the political puzzle. Everyone else is screwed.

 
It's how the game used to be played before everything just got stagnant from everyone having everything they wanted and no one having to actually plan properly for things, and the masterminds of amazing game political showdowns retired (or were banned -.-)


Not back when I played. Back then PvP, while not uncommon, was certainly not the norm. Not that it's relevant anyhow, because the risks were infinitesimal back then compared to now because there was no sinking.
[Oct 13, 2017 6:38:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews Reply to this Post
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Yes politics is a full time job, as part of being a monarch, captain and royal/SO depending on the organisation. The point I am making is that players can be very creative in how they organise themselves in adapting to things in the game to make things less problematic. I have every faith that over time, there will be a fresh set of ideas and creative ways to resolve current concerns. A combination of dedicated types of players will take to specific tasks/roles within the game that previously were not a thing or rarely needed - like defending flag/crew voyages or helping to handle persistent PvP threats to their flag/crew. Diplomacy, alliances and pacts all form part of this as well.

Fresh ideas generally requires new information, new elements, or new circumstances. What we're looking at here is none of that, it's just the same information, elements, and circumstances that the other oceans have dealt with, but with the PvP turned up to 11.

Just about the only thing "new" we'll see is dedicated "sink 'em all" brigades hunting for people who are trying to earn enough money for boats etc.
[Oct 13, 2017 7:15:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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The ocean isn't old enough to have had a chance to let this "problem" fix itself.
 
So long as you're a player/crew/flag dialed in to the political puzzle. Or more correctly, dialed into the right political faction within the political puzzle. Everyone else is screwed.
HWFO is real. By default all flags are dialled into a political game in Puzzle Pirates. You can choose to play this how you wish though. Which faction you're on really doesn't matter - there's already been pledges to assist a faction that's struggling in numbers by Grey Havens.
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by Sagacious at Oct 13, 2017 7:22:49 PM]
[Oct 13, 2017 7:19:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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D-d-d-d-double post!

What about if the general ongoing war was more than just about islands controlled? What if PvP could be incentivised by a game mechanic that uses the previous week's PvP performance to provide a faction with a game benefit?

This benefit could either be on or off, depending on which faction "won" the previous week. Or it could be scaled depending on how victorious that faction was vs the other, with both factions having some benefit but the more successful side benefiting more.

Ideas for benefits include sales tax reduction (on faction-owned islands only?), % bonus extra PoE earned from PoE fountains (chests, brigand victories, hauling in SMH), doubloon delivery fee discounts, some form of puzzling effort potency mechanic (maybe restricted only to PvE activities like SMH and brigands).
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[Oct 13, 2017 8:02:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdl1963



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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews Reply to this Post
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By default all flags are dialled into a political game in Puzzle Pirates.


Um, no. Flags can choose to not play the political game at all. Back in the 'old days', many flags made exactly that choice.

 
Which faction you're on really doesn't matter - there's already been pledges to assist a faction that's struggling in numbers by Grey Havens.


You didn't read my message - I didn't say "game faction", I said "political faction", which is a different matter entirely.
[Oct 14, 2017 12:21:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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D-d-d-d-double post!

What about if the general ongoing war was more than just about islands controlled? What if PvP could be incentivised by a game mechanic that uses the previous week's PvP performance to provide a faction with a game benefit?

This benefit could either be on or off, depending on which faction "won" the previous week. Or it could be scaled depending on how victorious that faction was vs the other, with both factions having some benefit but the more successful side benefiting more.

Ideas for benefits include sales tax reduction (on faction-owned islands only?), % bonus extra PoE earned from PoE fountains (chests, brigand victories, hauling in SMH), doubloon delivery fee discounts, some form of puzzling effort potency mechanic (maybe restricted only to PvE activities like SMH and brigands).

While I don't agree with the sentiment of allowing people a method to opt-out of PvP by any means other than performance on the duty navigation puzzle, I also don't agree that the incentive to PvP should be increased any further than what it already is.

I don't believe that pirates currently going solo on ships are at that great of a risk for PvP (unless there's one crew/flag that is looking to drive pirates out of another crew/flag), but a change such as this would probably increase the risk.

Which means, potentially, that you will now have an increase of instances where 3 or 4 alts on a sloop going after a solo on his main, also on a sloop, so that the alt's faction can gain a benefit.

Address the alt abuse issue via game mechanics and not /complain or Petition and this idea might be worth pursuing.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by majestrate at Oct 14, 2017 5:21:55 AM]
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BobJanova

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Firstly, if you mean 'opt out of PVP' not 'opt out of sinking', then that is just a ridiculous suggestion. That would make carebearing on Obsidian even safer than on the safe oceans, since PVP is permitted everywhere (even off Lima dock ...) on all oceans at present.

As for being able to opt out of sinking PVP: The whole point of Obsidian is that there is risk associated with the more lucrative areas of the game. The only way to balance a suggestion like this is for it to be so expensive it isn't worth it, at which point why introduce it at all?

What we need is not the option to evade PVP entirely, but game mechanics to make it possible to avoid being caught (actually this already exists, it's called dnav), some possibility of gaining something if you fight back and win (TH or partial salvage of sunk ships?), and an understanding by the players that it's a PVP ocean and you need to protect yourself against ganking.

It would also be good if battles could be escalated, so sailing in a fleet makes sense. Anyone who plays Eve knows that coordination between ships is what makes fights interesting and dynamic, but any PVP in YPP is always effectively 1v1. This would also play well with suggestions that let you have more effective NPCs staffing a ship.
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Devonin

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BobJanova wrote: 
Firstly, if you mean 'opt out of PVP' not 'opt out of sinking', then that is just a ridiculous suggestion. That would make carebearing on Obsidian even safer than on the safe oceans, since PVP is permitted everywhere (even off Lima dock ...) on all oceans at present.


Wanting to play that way is not ridiculous. Seeing if a balanced way to allow people who want to play that way to do so is possible is not ridiculous. 'Carebearing' is dismissive and patronizing. Saying 'There is a segment of your playerbase that would very likely consider paying a premium to have the kind of experience they'd prefer, maybe we should see if there are ways to make it so that style of play can be enabled without messing things up for other people' should be EXACTLY the kind of game design suggestion the staff want.

I'm sitting here saying "Lets talk about a way to make the company more money, make some more players happy, and do our level best to not make any other players unhappy" and you're basically telling me I'm a ridiculous buffoon.

 
on the safe oceans


As we've said and tried to get people to understand for some time now, for all intents and purposes, there are no oceans besides this one. There are some interactive museums but there's no there there.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Devonin at Oct 15, 2017 1:18:36 PM]
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katiemac

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I'm sitting here saying "Lets talk about a way to make the company more money, make some more players happy, and do our level best to not make any other players unhappy" and you're basically telling me I'm a ridiculous buffoon.


Amen to that (not the part about being called a buffoon). I'm one of the people who, while I don't care for PVP, used to put up with it years ago when I played YPP. I came back to see DS, and since I don't want to risk my ships being sunk, am stuck in the one "safe" arch.

Being told to go play on one of a variety of underpopulated servers is not an option that does anything but drive me (and others like me) from the game.

If the idea is to present a game that entices new players, sinking PVP isn't the answer. It will drive out of Obsidian new players, and those of us who don't want our ships sunk, with no other viable ocean open to us.
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Devonin

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I'm sitting here saying "Lets talk about a way to make the company more money, make some more players happy, and do our level best to not make any other players unhappy" and you're basically telling me I'm a ridiculous buffoon.


Amen to that (not the part about being called a buffoon). I'm one of the people who, while I don't care for PVP, used to put up with it years ago when I played YPP. I came back to see DS, and since I don't want to risk my ships being sunk, am stuck in the one "safe" arch.

Being told to go play on one of a variety of underpopulated servers is not an option that does anything but drive me (and others like me) from the game.

If the idea is to present a game that entices new players, sinking PVP isn't the answer. It will drive out of Obsidian new players, and those of us who don't want our ships sunk, with no other viable ocean open to us.


And see, this thread, while I felt like I did present at least a good starting point for a potential way to address this, had less to do with addressing it, and more to do with demonstrating to TPTB that there are others who feel this way too who might be worth appealing to.

There's more of us than you think, and we'll spend money for ways to play the way we want.
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Sagacious

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It's no secret that PVP is half the point of Dark Seas. It's practically been in the strapline since the first announcement post. You can't then start playing it and then ask that such a fundamental thing be changed so you don't have to be a part of it.
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SeaGi

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Change the game mechanic to allow multiple ships to aid one another by entering an "in progress" sea battle, two or more ships from the same faction could provide each other mutual defense as long as the might ring will allow it. If you see a sea battle, you can enter the battle to assist in the fight, or run interference or delay the enemy while the other ship escapes to port if on a merch run. The overall might of one side or the other could change as more ships engage or fall out of battle, so a third ship would not be allowed to pile on a 2v1 battle, but a second ship could join on the single ships side making it 2v2. Once two ships hook, they are removed from the board for the fray. After the fray they could re-enter the battle after a cool-down.

I believe the mechanic is there, run it like a blockade board where the factions can enter either side depending on direction of travel, the caveat is that once a ship enters the board its on the board until you can click to disengage, grapple or sink, theres no exit or safe zone.

Team tactics, team play, pvp focused, less mandatory risk if you play it right.
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wrs1864b

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It's no secret that PVP is half the point of Dark Seas. It's practically been in the strapline since the first announcement post.

Yeah, that has always puzzled me. PvP in YPP isn't that fun of a puzzle and has lots of other problems with it. Bnav vs brigands isn't too bad because brigands are fairly stupid and fairly predictable. Bnav on the blockade board can be quite fun.

But 1v1 PvP? Yuck. It can be "fun" for the attacker when they cheat by using low stat alts, or loading up the other ship with alts that jump ship when the PvP happens, or doing various other things that will get you banned eventually, but two well staffed ships can shoot hundreds of cbs, be pretty aggressive, and still end up being a pure waste of time.

Back when OOO ran the OCL, they went to great lengths to make sure that ships had barely enough players and combined with the glass-cannon long ships, meant that you actually had fun.

So, yeah, PvP is the "big" thing about Obsidian, and yet GH hasn't done squat to make PvP good.
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jdl1963



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So, yeah, PvP is the "big" thing about Obsidian, and yet GH hasn't done squat to make PvP good.


Pretty much this - and in some ways, by upping the risk to "innocents" (those not actively hunting other players and/or going about their daily business) by introducing sinking... They've made PvP worse from the point of the view of the "innocent" players.

It's no longer "I've lost some stuff and now I need to carp and bilge". Now it's potentially "I've lost everything - cargo, poe, and dubs (to recover a sunken vessel)". When losing a single battle can cost you days or weeks of work, the average player (and especially the merchants) likely aren't going to stick around very long.

Unless you're Eve Online, the player numbers and the money aren't in enforced high risk non consensual PvP.
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Sagacious

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Sure PvP engagements could be made more fun and interesting. However, the concepts of "innocents" and how they factor in to PvP should be less of a shielding/opt-out one. It's the duty of the crews and flags of the ocean to protect the innocents in this case really, or to compensate them if they're caught up. Retribution too.
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Nek0jin

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For those people who are holding EVE Online up as an example of a PvP-centric game... you might want to read this.

Short version: The majority of players in EVE spend most of their time in "High-Sec," and nearly half of the player base never (or almost never) leaves "high-sec." The glory stories you hear about PvP in Null-Sec are a tiny percentage of the player base - 10% or less. Most players only do PvP occasionally, if at all.

The idea of PvP driving a player base is a fallacy from the start. Unless a game is specifically and completely devoted to PvP (like Overwatch, MOBAs, etc), then you're going to have a very large percentage of the player base that is resistant to PvP, if not completely opposed to it.

Personally, I don't mind PvP when there's something worthwhile in it. I don't mind losing a ship-to-ship fight when the stakes are generally similar, and the penalty for losing isn't large. But as others have already spelled out (attacker can have a PvP-focused team, no goods to lose aside from cannonballs and rum), it's a very lopsided setup. The attackers essentially have little skin in the game, so to speak.

For the PvP ship to sail, there needs to be more to it. More risk for the attackers, less cost for the losers (regardless of whether that's attackers or defenders).
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jdl1963



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Sagacious:
 
Sure PvP engagements could be made more fun and interesting. However, the concepts of "innocents" and how they factor in to PvP should be less of a shielding/opt-out one. It's the duty of the crews and flags of the ocean to protect the innocents in this case really, or to compensate them if they're caught up. Retribution too.


That was tried back in Ultima Online back in the 90's. Didn't work then, I've seen no evidence to indicate that there's any reason to believe it will work now.

Nek0jin:
 
For those people who are holding EVE Online up as an example of a PvP-centric game... you might want to read this.

Short version: The majority of players in EVE spend most of their time in "High-Sec," and nearly half of the player base never (or almost never) leaves "high-sec." The glory stories you hear about PvP in Null-Sec are a tiny percentage of the player base - 10% or less. Most players only do PvP occasionally, if at all.


Interesting, the publicity makes it seem quite the opposite. Thank you for finding that.

 
The idea of PvP driving a player base is a fallacy from the start. Unless a game is specifically and completely devoted to PvP (like Overwatch, MOBAs, etc), then you're going to have a very large percentage of the player base that is resistant to PvP, if not completely opposed to it.


Exactly. And that's something that's been proven time and time again in game after game ever since the Great Experiment failed in Ultima Online nearly twenty years ago - the vast majority of players (serious and casual) will avoid non consensual PvP.

Which is why I can't understand why the Haveners are making it a centerpiece for DS.
[Oct 16, 2017 3:23:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Griffus8



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My thing about obsidian is its fairly new so we don't know what is in the works. Always new stuff. Meridian is dead. Emerald is slowly crawling to death. Cerulean is in the double digits but you can sail a ship, kraken run and blockade even and still have fun. Would i like to see more players on the sub ocean? Yes! 9.99 a month for a sub for Unlimited access and no dub delivery fee is great. Ive always been a dublooner but go to Cerulean at times. Obisidan is where its at now..


Griffus emerald,cerulean and Obsidian.
[Oct 16, 2017 4:36:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Sure PvP engagements could be made more fun and interesting.

That is a massive understatement. 1v1 bnav is one of, if not *the*, worst puzzle in the game. That shouldn't be what you center your new version of the game around.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Oct 16, 2017 5:47:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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It's no secret that PVP is half the point of Dark Seas. It's practically been in the strapline since the first announcement post. You can't then start playing it and then ask that such a fundamental thing be changed so you don't have to be a part of it.


I can and I have. Because what I'm doing is starting to play it, realizing "This isn't just 'The PvP server' among all the servers. This is THE SERVER and since it is THE SERVER, it is important that anybody who has a vision for how this server can be made more successful and appealing and encourage the most kinds of people to stay should speak up and say so.

I own a community business. I run events multiple times a week. When you create an event for a certain thing, you naturally limit how many people will take part in it.

Most of my business is in Magic the Gathering. It is a game of many formats, and some people play only one, some people play multiple. I've had 212 unique players at sanctioned events in my store (which is more than 61% of stores worldwide, which isn't bad for a town of 17,000 people) but with 212 players, the most I've ever had at a single event in the last year is 33.

When I run a Standard event, I get 6-14 people. When I run a Modern event, I get 6-14 people. When I run a Draft event, I get 6-14 people. When I run a no-format casual fun night, I get 12-30 people. Pretty much this is consistent year round. 4 times I year I get to run a bigger scale more competitive event that pulls in 16-40. There is ALMOST NO overlap between those 16-40 and the people who make up everything else. Those are the PvP equivalent.

So yes, my biggest event is the one that is most like PvP (Higher barrier to entry, more relevant prizes, naturally more competitive, attracting the highest skilled/highest investment players)

But if I only did those events, the 16-40 across all four events might be 50-100 unique people, probably less. Less than HALF the playerbase I actually have.

The thing that gets that full 212 is that the ones who just want to come to funsies casual night can come and play casually for funsies. No cost to enter, and sure, no prizes, but they're there because the game itself is fun, and adding in heavy competition makes them have less fun. Play Modern? We support that. Play Standard? We support that. Play Draft? We support that. Play casual? We support that.

And guess which segment spends the most money in the store? Without any contest at all, it's the casual people who have never entered a for-pay tournament in their life. There's more of them, they don't care as much about being optimal, they care about having fun with their friends. Supporting them makes my store notable and popular in comparison to other competitors nearby. People praise the fact that I have support for both casual and competitive players, and I end up financially and numerically competitive with stores in cities 4 times my size and bigger.

If you can make an effort to appeal to as many people as possible, those people will all support you.
[Oct 16, 2017 8:31:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Well said.

The issue isn't PvP vs. PvE. It's Open-ocean PvP and PvE Pillaging and Monster Hunting PvE and Blockade PvP and Island Governance (both PvP and Co-Op, in its own ways).

None of these need to be in conflict with each other. The game has to make them all work to one degree or another. Shoving out the PvP'ers won't work. Putting them up on a pedestal won't, either. Anyone who views it as one or the other is blinded to the real problems.

Fundamentally, the problem with PvP in a PvE environment is that nobody likes to be victimized. And that's what happens when PvP enthusiasts push it onto PvE'ers who are just trying to have a little fun pillaging. The "Red vs. Grey" divide is all well and good, but even so, you're effectively crowding the people who don't want to be ambushed to stay in the "kiddy pool." Or risk significant losses for the chance to get out into the wider world and other gameplay elements.

I don't know how the PvP element is looking at the game now. I'm not in tune with who is doing what. But I can say with certain that people who lose two, three ships from being ambushed start wondering where the fun is. Maybe some stay, work hard to rebuild those ships. But some in this situation will decide that it's not worth their time, and go find something else to play.

And the game loses players.
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[Oct 16, 2017 9:01:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdl1963



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Fundamentally, the problem with PvP in a PvE environment is that nobody likes to be victimized. And that's what happens when PvP enthusiasts push it onto PvE'ers who are just trying to have a little fun pillaging.


Precisely.

 
But I can say with certain that people who lose two, three ships from being ambushed start wondering where the fun is. Maybe some stay, work hard to rebuild those ships. But some in this situation will decide that it's not worth their time, and go find something else to play.

And the game loses players.


We do need to be clear here, the real problem isn't PvP itself - it's sinking PvP (which is peculiar to Obsidian) which turns the risk-v-reward curve completely upside down.
[Oct 16, 2017 11:03:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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We do need to be clear here, the real problem isn't PvP itself - it's sinking PvP (which is peculiar to Obsidian) which turns the risk-v-reward curve completely upside down.

Right, which is what my focus has been on from the start.

Although I was talking about reducing the cost of ships, perhaps the cure isn't the cost of ships, but rather the cost of Ships in a Bottle. Reduce the rebuild cost - reduce the Dub cost there, or even eliminate it completely - and the loss of the ship stops being so severe.

That, however, is a Dub sink that they were probably planning on with the PvP nature of the ocean, so if they do that, they're going to need to put in another Dub sink somewhere else to balance it out.
[Oct 16, 2017 11:18:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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