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Sanityflex

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How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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I've been looking around the forums/facebook/twitter, for any sort of official announcement on the future plans for this game, and so far i've found nothing.

I'm someone who loves the game, and the importance of skill, consistency, free market economy, teamwork. Overall i think this game has a ton to offer, but for some reason game design flaws with obvious solutions, are not being fixed.

One thing that several of the most successful free 2 play games today prove, is that only putting customization behind a paywall, can be hugely profitable for a game.

I have never seen ANY free to play game succeed from putting important gameplay features behind a paywall. And when dub prices are 3.6k each, you have to play constantly to have enough money for the puzzles you want to play.

So right now on Emerald, you need 18k to do labor puzzles, 28k to captain a ship, 18k to hunt monsters, and 14k to play parlor games.

So every single month you need to pay 78k just to access the puzzles in the game.

THIS is the main problem to me.

Clothing is incredibly expensive, but it doesn't stop me from playing the game. So is houses, ships, familiars, pets, all this stuff, but i don't care, because these things don't stop me from playing the game, i'm fine with this.

But please, for the love of god, make the puzzles/ranks (except SO/Captain) freely available, so that people feel like they can play the game, without investing their entire lives into it.

Final and most important argument

Having these gameplay features behind a paywall hurts EVERYONE. If i run a shop, i need labor. If i run anything on a ship, i need pirates. If i want to fight anyone, or having a thriving economy, i need opponents/life. And if i want to play parlor games with my friends, i need them to be ABLE to play the parlor games.

The parlor games were no doubt intended to add some extra fun to the gameplay, and in turn give the players another reason to stay in the game. SO DON'T TAKE IT AWAY FROM THEM.

This seems so basic to me, and it would do so much to save this game.

Right now, everyone would enter this game, do a simple pillage, realize how incredibly repetitive it gets, and then realize that you're gonna force them to do this boring pillage until they got 18k to do something remotely exciting.

This game has so much to offer, but way too much off it is walled off for no good reason.

These things were no problem when dubloon prices were less than 1k, but at some point you've got to step in, and correct the market. Because you're not allowing the market to correct itself, when you demand an incredibly high tax from an almost entirely dead market. That is how you kill a marketplace, and that fact should appear obvious to even the most useless of economists.

Now lower these taxes before i go full on republican!

I sincerely promise, that the second you do this, i will play this game again, and bring everyone i know who used to play this, and then some.

(I btw have no doubt in my mind that this aswell would fix the cheating problem to a large degree, since people wouldn't feel the same need to cheat, when being rich isn't a requirement to play the games most basic features.)
[May 10, 2016 6:20:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Faulkston

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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The high PoE prices for doubloons is a consequence of an insufficient amount of real money purchases of doubloons. That's not helped by a declining player base. :-(
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[May 10, 2016 7:13:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/search [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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Re: How to fix the main reason I started a new thread. Reply to this Post
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If you want to use this to explain why YPP is dying, then you'll also need to explain why the game thrived for years despite having exactly the same doubloon cost for these same activities. And thrived before doubloons even existed with people happily paying for subscriptions to access all features.
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[May 10, 2016 8:16:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Sanityflex

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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The high PoE prices for doubloons is a consequence of an insufficient amount of real money purchases of doubloons. That's not helped by a declining player base. :-(


I'm not gonna buy anything before they change this either. And i have bought for 200+$ back when this was my main game.

 
If you want to use this to explain why YPP is dying, then you'll also need to explain why the game thrived for years despite having exactly the same doubloon cost for these same activities. And thrived before doubloons even existed with people happily paying for subscriptions to access all features.


Please stop the denial, it's not helping anything. I know this is the reason why me, and several of my friends are staying away from the game. Right now it's life consuming to be able to play this game properly, and it only gets worse if you pick up poker and lose whatever you've attained.

The game is dying, that's a fact. So i don't care what was the facts in the past when the competition was non-existant, i care about what works today. And i'm pretty sure people would gladly buy stuff in this game, if the level of entry was WAY lower than it's currently been made to be. The Gameplay should be available to EVERYONE, not just to those who are already established in the game.

If the puzzles are what's supposed to attract players, then put it up front for everyone, don't put it behind a paywall. Put all the prestige, looks, achievements, ownerships behind the paywall, cause people are gonna want those when they really get into the game, not before they get into it.
[May 11, 2016 4:49:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SirCarl67

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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The problem is that this suggestion cuts Grey Havens revenue massively in the short term in the hop that it will increase player numbers in the longer term and that those new players will consume enough doubs to cover the shortfall.

While there is a sliding scale players can be fit broadly into 3 categories. Those that buy more doubs than they consume, those that but roughly the same number of doubs that they consume and those that buy less doubs than they consume.

The first like high doub prices, for $10 you can get 42k poe where as it used to only be 10k. If doubs are no longer required for badges the exchange rate will crash, some players might increase the number of doubs they buy in order to get the poe they were "buying" in the past but others are likely to stop buying doubs, is 10k poe really worth $10?

The second are indifferent to the doub exchange rate for them doubs are always 20-25c each.

The third are the ones that leave the game due to high doub prices (and that isn't the only reason people leave the game). These people will buy few if any doubloons certainly not enough to make up for all the revenue lost due to removing the need for badges.

The result of your suggestion is that the player base might go up slightly but its financial standing goes from rocky to untenable and the servers are shut down.

If high doub prices are thought of as a problem to Grey Havens (they are a problem for free players they are a good thing to the players providing grey havens with the majority of their revenue) then the way to adjust it is to increase poe sinks (and possibly reduce poe fountains) in ways that do not affect players that are struggling to play the game. examples are

1. A rake on the top poker tables
2. Change all recipes to require twice the amount of herbs and minerals (or even more). This would make the poe price of things like swords, clothes and LE ships much more expensive but as the doubloon cost is 90%+ of the cost it will have little impact on sales (this would be terrible for Cerulean unless they are able to have different recipes on different oceans). Essentials like Rum and Shot would not be affected as they do not use herbs or minerals)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by SirCarl67 at May 11, 2016 12:07:43 PM]
[May 11, 2016 12:04:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sanityflex

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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The problem is that this suggestion cuts Grey Havens revenue massively in the short term in the hop that it will increase player numbers in the longer term and that those new players will consume enough doubs to cover the shortfall.


Well the current design only works short term, and that is why this game ended up dying out.

 
then the way to adjust it is to increase poe sinks (and possibly reduce poe fountains) in ways that do not affect players that are struggling to play the game. examples are...


That wouldn't help anything, i'm talking about how the game looks to a newcomer with equal importance. And when you enter the game right now, you are told off the bat that you need to pay to unlock the gameplay, and if you don't, we're gonna make you grind for all eternity.

Right now the game looks incredibly demanding for the average casual player, and lets face it, this game is pretty damn casual, so it's not catering to the types of players it needs to.

This is the type of change you make, whilst announcing it EVERYWHERE, and by doing that you shorten the amount of time between now and the long term.

Games these days profit of being good and fun, if you limit the things that makes it good and fun, you limit the appeal that's supposed to attract players in the first place.

The money should come from all the "extra" stuff. The things that you care about getting, when you actually like and care about the game.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sanityflex at May 11, 2016 8:37:48 PM]
[May 11, 2016 8:35:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
JamesStGeorg



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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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Grey Haven revenue, is at the core of this. However no one has said what their intents are for the game. So if they do nothing, bar keep servers open to play on there should be precious little costs. No time spent on new content LE ships, etc. to pay for.

In such a situation why keep doubloons at all?

Small amounts of revenue could be made in other ways, sponsorship, adverts. Direct cash purchase of old stuff not available now?

New LE ships, eggs etc might be possible if they just oversee a player community capable of doing all the art work for them. Passing on to lead members of the community details of what extra has to be done more than has been in the past. Up to and including 3d modeling new items, other teams could colour in the PP style as they manage for portraits. Make PP community run and built, content. No cash needed.
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Doulber

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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Reason: Insufficient player base.

=> All other arguments fall under this statement.

End of argument.
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[May 12, 2016 1:39:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sanityflex

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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Reason: Insufficient player base.

=> All other arguments fall under this statement.

End of argument.


I'm not quite sure what your point is here. Are you saying there's no solutions to renew the playerbase, because the game is already dead?

If that's what you ment, then thanks for your input, helped alot. We're done here guys, nothing can be done.
[May 12, 2016 1:42:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SirCarl67

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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then the way to adjust it is to increase poe sinks (and possibly reduce poe fountains) in ways that do not affect players that are struggling to play the game. examples are...


That wouldn't help anything, i'm talking about how the game looks to a newcomer with equal importance. And when you enter the game right now, you are told off the bat that you need to pay to unlock the gameplay, and if you don't, we're gonna make you grind for all eternity.

Right now the game looks incredibly demanding for the average casual player, and lets face it, this game is pretty damn casual, so it's not catering to the types of players it needs to.

This is the type of change you make, whilst announcing it EVERYWHERE, and by doing that you shorten the amount of time between now and the long term.

Games these days profit of being good and fun, if you limit the things that makes it good and fun, you limit the appeal that's supposed to attract players in the first place.

The money should come from all the "extra" stuff. The things that you care about getting, when you actually like and care about the game.


My suggestion on poe sinks would have the aim of getting the exchange rate back to maybe 1000 poe for a doubloon this would enable a new player to get the doubloons they need by playing the game.

IMO puzzle pirates has more access than virtually every other game to free players. I free player has at least in theory full access to the game though I admit the current exchange rate makes this very difficult but you can choose the parts that are most important to you (for example you could gut an O badge with the money earned in a couple of hours at a high paying blockade and then only do the crafting and parlour puzzles on the free days or you could get a parlour, labor and pirate badge and limit your bnav and nav puzzling to navy runs.

Unless you are navving SMHs are just a different environment to do the same puzzles you get unique rewards but is using an SMH badge to get a CI trinket / Krackling different from using doubs to buy clothes or housing.

When the game was at its most popular there was no SMH and only a couple of crafting puzzles and no rigging, patching, or rumble. So the free player has arguably more access to the puzzles today than the paying player did 10 years ago.

There are two reasons the game is so demanding, one technical one social.

Technically as performance is always relative a new player in a world where almost everyone has been playing for years struggles. He will stay able until he performs better than 25% of the population and that has to include a lot of experienced players. He wont reach distinguished until he is better than half of them. When I started playing there were a lot more greenies so I could get up to distinguished and respected in some puzzles reasonably easily and felt I was making progress.

Socially a lot of people will not allow new players to play the game fully. A pirate on KH who sinks quite a bit and gets maybe 3 or 4 cuttle boxes is liable to be planked. Players want access to features that reward high end play and then exclude inexperienced players from taking part.
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bailet

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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If you break down the time cost of acquiring basic badges, it amounts to over 30 hours earning 1k an hour to earn enough just for an officer badge. In a pillage. Over 100 hours of pillaging green ships with no stat restrictions and a default booty ramp. Players are immediately turned off by this for good reason. The main reason people play Y!PP is because of the self-gratification they receive when achieving a new goal or acquiring a new cool item.

There is very little progress for new players to make and the game has set itself into an avalanche of consequences that cascade BECAUSE the population is low.

The game is player-run, but only functions when there are enough players to run it and take part in it. Skill ramps for puzzles has gone up drastically, the amount of players who take part in greenie-friendly activities has all but vanished.

I will forever point to the dub system as the problem. Limiting player progress by badges only works when there is an incentive to earn enough poe to buy them. At 27k for an officer badge, players would rather throw their hands up and play something with immediate satisfaction such as a moba.
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[May 23, 2016 5:48:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SirCarl67

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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IMO doubloons are not the problem most mobo's have a similar issue for those who don't want to pay, in my view it is worse.

In YPP, a new player can play the game for free enjoying the pillage as a CP / pirate doing blockades, trying the parlour and labour puzzles on free days. One they decide they like it they have the option of:
a) continuing as they are (which I admit is not very satisfying
b) give up
c) spend enough money to gain full access to the game. As labour badges should pay for themselves with only doing a puzzle a week I would put this as $5-7 a month for O, bravery and parlour badges with a little over for the occasional ship.
d) Go to the sub ocean so they can get all manner of cloths swords etc as well.

In MOBO's the free play will usually get slaughtered by the paying play and has no idea whether they will be able to survive most of the time paying $10 a month or $100 a month. To win you have to pay and to win consistently you have to pay a lot.

I see the biggest problems as the relative scoring curve and the desire "elite" aspects of the game in an ever maturing player base.

When I started it was relatively easy to get up to respected or master in a couple of puzzles, the top navvers ran WF pillages hunting yellow ships where everyone got reasonable pay, now it is much harder to get puzzling stats up and the top navvers insist on decent stats and experience in SMHs to go out with them so the new pirate is left pillaging with a greenie officer who loses half the battles and gets next to nothing the rest of the time.
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[May 24, 2016 6:13:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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most mobo's have a similar issue



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flyingbyson

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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Bump

Thought of this by myself yesterday, so yes, I 100% agree. The entire problem is doubloon prices and not enough doubloon sources.

My suggestion for a fix: award doubloons on pillages. What do you think?
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teeth says,
 
You gotta learn the secret of poker. Let me explain.

[Jul 9, 2016 1:09:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
flyingbyson

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By the way, this is absolutely 100% THE most important thread on the forums. Let's get the Oms' attentions.
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teeth says,
 
You gotta learn the secret of poker. Let me explain.

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xelto

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Bump

Thought of this by myself yesterday, so yes, I 100% agree. The entire problem is doubloon prices and not enough doubloon sources.

My suggestion for a fix: award doubloons on pillages. What do you think?

I think Grey Havens would go out of business quickly if nobody gave them any money. And if you get dubs while pillaging, there's no reason to give them money.
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[Jul 9, 2016 4:03:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
flyingbyson

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Well, it's not like people would stop buying doubloons... I've bought doubloons twice in 9 years in playing because I have other places to make money. Some people just prefer to buy doubloons.

I had another idea though. It seems that the issue is actually too much PoE and not enough doubloons. So it seems like if the OMs were able to sell doubloons directly through the exchange, artificially lowering the price, that might jumpstart the economy. IE an algorithm that introduced doubloons into the market to lower their price at some amount of PoE/unit time.

I agree also with the adding rake to poker tables as being a potential fix. I mainly play poker (I am a semi-professional), and really it almost seems kind of strange to have no rake. This seems to be what most players do, and it would help create a major PoE sink.
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teeth says,
 
You gotta learn the secret of poker. Let me explain.

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by flyingbyson at Jul 9, 2016 7:03:53 PM]
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SirCarl67

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At present the only way doubloons come into the system is people buying them with $. Every doubloon that grey havens spawn would reduce their revenue by 20-25c.

The poe price of doubs is high because people are willing to pay that price. You have the choice of paying 3000 poe for a doub or 20-25c (depending on how many you buy). If you think 300 poe is too much then buy more than you need with $ and sell them. If lots of people do this then the poe price of a doub will go down.
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[Jul 10, 2016 9:50:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
flyingbyson

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What is even the purpose of your reply?

I have zero interest in buying doubloons with real money. Furthermore, the price of doubloons has nothing to do with me personally. Your suggestion to "Buy more with money and sell them" irks me to hell and back.

The issue is that certain players have simply accumulated too much PoE and their demand for the doubloons drives up the prices higher than what new pirates and people without much money can pay. Bored of an environment like this, and one where less and less new players are also playing, they give up and quit.

I am not saying anything new here, I just don't think you understand.

I'd also like to comment, however, on the fact that it appears that you arbitrarily came up with the 20-25c figure. I don't see how adding doubloons into the system through a direct exchange would decrease their revenue, if more than a little. If you are thinking that people would buy less doubloons because they aren't getting their money's worth, well this really makes no sense. 1. Because all prices in the game (even trade prices between pirates) are relative to doubloon prices. And 2. The only real factor influencing people buying doubloons is the health of the game itself/people's interest in the game.
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teeth says,
 
You gotta learn the secret of poker. Let me explain.

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[Edit 3 times, last edit by flyingbyson at Jul 10, 2016 11:37:03 AM]
[Jul 10, 2016 11:28:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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If the problem is too much PoE, then what needs to happen is to adjust the PoE fountains and PoE/doubloon sinks until there is a balanced flow of money in/out to the game. You don't just inject magicked doubloons to meddle with the economy.

Black boxes were a huge boon to the economy balance, as they sucked PoE out of the game on an unprecedented scale. Doubloon prices came down and all was copacetic for a little while. Then Three Rings introduced Gold Boxes and thus restored the imbalance of PoE to doubloons.

So I move for a removal of Gold Boxes as the first step to balancing the economy.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Jul 10, 2016 12:24:37 PM]
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flyingbyson

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That's a good suggestion. Makes me wonder why gold boxes were introduced in the first place. Perhaps they could just change gold boxes to PoE also, or something like that. Personally, I've bought maybe 500k~ worth of black boxes ever, just to waste PoE. So from my own experience, the only issue I see with this is that it isn't a stable sink.

I was just thinking that there has to be a way to regulate the influx of doubloons that isn't so heavily purchase dependent--but will promote purchases in the long run. It just seems like since the problem is too much PoE and not enough doubloons, having a system that directly exchanges one for the other (without relying on people paying cash) would do the job.

Even as someone who can print money from the poker tables, I think that lowering the prices of items overall would make the game infinitely more fun again. Sure, there would be a few absurdly rich people with 100s of ships and crazy things like that. But then THERE WOULD BE PEOPLE WITH 100S OF SHIPS. People would have reason to waste money on ridiculous clothes. Blockading would be fun again, everything would slowly go back to the way it was.
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teeth says,
 
You gotta learn the secret of poker. Let me explain.

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[Edit 3 times, last edit by flyingbyson at Jul 10, 2016 1:37:15 PM]
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SirCarl67

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My 20-25c per doubloon was not arbitrary, the smallest package 12 doubloons for $2.99 (25c each) and the largest is $99.99 for 500 doubloon (20c each) other packages have prices per doub between these values.

Grey Havens have servers to run and staff to pay the only way they can pay these bills is though players paying real money to play the game. If you spend 40 doubs per month then someone has bought those doubs for somewhere between $8 and $10. If half the doubs are spawned though pillaging then that will have Grey Havens revenue.

The poe price of doubs is set by the players. If more doubs are used than are bought with $ then the price goes up until the higher price encourages enough people to buy doubs with $ to balance the system, as there are currently a lot of players who are unable or unwilling to buy doubloons with $ that pushes the price up.

It is doubloon sinks that make the developers money, Gold boxes, like LE ships were brought out because as player numbers went down they needed to get more money per player to keep paying the bills. Lowering the (doub) price of items overall would reduce the developers revenue.

I am in favour or reducing poe spawns and increasing poe sinks but it needs to be targeted. If doubs were half there current price but you only got half as much poe for pillaging etc then you would be no better off. The changes therefore need to hit the rich:

A rake on high end parlour games
A reduction or even elimination of the poe in SMH people should want to do SMH for the items not the poe.
An increase in the cost of minerals and herbs (this would increase the poe part of the cost of things like fancy clothes and swords but not effect essentials like rum and CBs)
Possibly a tax on blockade pay.

By the way there are already people with 100s of ships and millions of poe which is why blockade pay is so high (I remember when blockade pay typically started at 300 a seg as that was comparable with a non-elite pillage).
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Apollo tells ye "If you're ok for me to do one [bake-off], I'll go with that."
[Jul 10, 2016 6:41:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
flyingbyson

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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Yes. I understand how revenue works, thanks.

But if people are still buying doubloons, again, for like the third time, why would this cut into revenue? You don't seem to understand. I will restate that doubloon purchases are only dependent on people's interest in the game. Your logic is majorly flawed. A higher doubloon price does not "encourage players to spend money to buy doubloons," this makes next to no sense.

Was OOO's revenue half as much when doubloon prices were half as much as they are now? Or was it six times less back 9 years ago? No, it was MORE. More people were playing and more people wanted to pay money for the benefits of the game.

I will also add that you are incorrect about your logic about the market value of doubloons. Yes, their price goes up relative to PoE based on how many are used, but also based on their quantity relative to PoE (ie deflation). You seem to understand this (as that's why you suggest PoE sinks), but this is the reason why a more elegant and simple fix would just have them exchange directly with each other.

Again, as I have already said, I have bought doubloons twice. I have no reason to pay for doubloons, so I have no incentive to purchase them. The only players who are consistently (or were) buying doubloons base their purchases off their interest in the game. Since all prices in the game are relative to doubloon prices except for black boxes, etc., and because the price paid in cash per doubloon is standard, changing the in-game exchange rate for a doubloon would in no way decrease Grey Haven's revenue directly. If anything, it would lead to more players and increased doubloon purchases and revenue and a solution to the problem.

I apologize for critiquing your post once more, but I again fail to see the purpose in many of those solutions. If the main problem is an inequity in the doubloon PoE trade, the solution should localize itself there, not make the situation more complicated than it already is.
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teeth says,
 
You gotta learn the secret of poker. Let me explain.

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[Edit 2 times, last edit by flyingbyson at Jul 11, 2016 8:33:54 AM]
[Jul 11, 2016 8:27:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SirCarl67

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I am not sure how you want doub and poe to be exchanged directly against each other, that is done currently using the doubloon exchange, I assume you mean that the exchange rate should be fixed, if so how is that done.

Lets say the price of doubs is fixed at 1500 poe. Given the exchange price is over 3000 then at 1500 poe there will be more people who want to buy doubs at 1500 poe than those that are willing to sell them at 1500 poe. A fixed price will mean either most people will not be able to buy doubs with poe because none are for sale or Doubs are spawned whenever someone sinks 1500 poe. The later would mean the majority of doubs used in the system are spawned by the game rather than bought with $.

Grey havens could reduce the number of doubs required for each item in game spend a lot on advertising and hope that the increase in player numbers is sufficient to increase the number of doubs used despite the lower costs per item (and by enough to pay for the advertising). Though if this happened the poe spawned in the game would also increase dramatically so that is likely to see doub prices increase possible to the point where the poe cost of am item (it the doubs are bought with poe) is back where it is now.

[q]A higher doubloon price does not "encourage players to spend money to buy doubloons," [/q]

Most free to play MMOs have a limited amount of free content and anything else
you have to buy with real money. You can play puzzle pirates without using doubs but activities like leading pillages and SMH are premium access for which you have to pay.

Unlike any other game I know of OOO allowed players who want to play for free to buy the micro currency from players who want more poe then they can earn in game. They are now complaining that players are not willing to pay $1 to get 5000 poe but instead demand 15000 poe.

Consider a typical MMO RPG where you might have to pay $5 for a mount (about the same as a sloop if there was no doubloon exchange). Another player comes to you and says you can buy my mount for 1000 gold you then have a choice of not having a mount, buying one with $5 or buy one with 1000 gold. It is not the developers fault that 5 years ago people were selling mounts for 200 gold. OOO developed the doubloon exchange to formalize and make that type of trade unnecessary but have been given a huge amount of stick for the micro currencie sellers wanting too many poe for their doub.
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Apollo tells ye "If you're ok for me to do one [bake-off], I'll go with that."
[Jul 11, 2016 10:05:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
flyingbyson

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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I still just don't think you're grasping it.

Yes I've taken economics. I was not suggesting a fixed price, and I never said I was, for many of the reasons you bring up.

My suggestion, once again, as cut and dry as it can be:

Is to create a simultaneous doubloon fountain/PoE sink. Grey Havens could essentially inject non-paid-for doubloons into the game through the exchange that is already implemented. I was personally thinking of a long term solution, so what came to mind was an algorithm for inflating the doubloon (decreasing its price relative to PoE, ie deflating PoE) by automatically releasing these doubloons into the game.

Now before you go and say "This would decrease Grey Havens' revenue" again--which I have explained multiple times it would not--keep in mind also that there would be essentially no difference except for the number of doubloons in the game and PoE in the game. If a person goes and buys 12 doubloons for $3, they can't sell them for PoE and be happy that they have a lot of PoE, because they need those doubloons for virtually every purchase in the game.

And again, I am addressing your contention about people wanting more PoE per cash purchase. Everything in game except poker buy ins, black boxes, etc. (items purely based on PoE) are relative to the price of doubloons. If the doubloon deflates relative to PoE, the actual currency still has more or less its same purchasing power. This is magnified by the fact that the doubloon delivery fee by any item is generally 10x the actually price of the item itself.
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teeth says,
 
You gotta learn the secret of poker. Let me explain.

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[Edit 2 times, last edit by flyingbyson at Jul 11, 2016 4:11:48 PM]
[Jul 11, 2016 3:58:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SeaGi

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Re: How to fix the main reason why Puzzle Pirates is dying. Reply to this Post
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Fundamentally the game is boring and monotonous as hell when you take the social aspect out of it, period. That's the problem, no fixing of the in game economy is going remedy that. My sailing puzzle looks no different at Sublime/Ultimate than it did at Narrow/Able, and it still pays the same.
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"pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" -Prov 16:18

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[Jul 11, 2016 5:37:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
flyingbyson

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Fundamentally the game is boring and monotonous as hell when you take the social aspect out of it, period. That's the problem, no fixing of the in game economy is going remedy that. My sailing puzzle looks no different at Sublime/Ultimate than it did at Narrow/Able, and it still pays the same.


And how are you planning on improving the social aspect of the game without enticing new players to play with a suitable environment? ie one where they can PLAY THE GAME.
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teeth says,
 
You gotta learn the secret of poker. Let me explain.

[Jul 11, 2016 5:44:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SeaGi

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I've quit and come back three times. All three times I've paid for a subscription and just played the game, didn't issue a list of demands about how or what they should be doing. That's their business, eventually I will leave again when I become totally bored, then maybe come back again. Who knows?
----------------------------------------
"pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" -Prov 16:18

Jimmyjimjim,
Ex-downpressor of Babylon
Thankfully Retired
[Jul 11, 2016 7:51:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
flyingbyson

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Then why are you here, wasting the time of people who are trying to brainstorm a solution to the obvious problem that is there? It's absolutely their business, but they wouldn't read this category if they didn't consider the opinions of players.

It's clear you have no intentions to attempt to help, only serve your own purposes. Please read my other reply, as you seem to not understand that this is primarily a free game that earns revenue from free to paying player conversion.
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teeth says,
 
You gotta learn the secret of poker. Let me explain.

[Jul 11, 2016 8:09:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cutingchris

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If you look at modern MMOs or just video games in general, their friend referral rewards are actually becoming pretty good and are very useful for getting new players in. Though I admit I can get into most video games easy now as people are probably more impatient with games. I'll use the example of Bungie's Destiny. Being able to get a quest-line in order to get very rare gear/vehicles while doing tough challenges while learning about little bit of everything in the game. Before idiots quote this post saying: "But that's a multi-million dollar game which is made by a huge company on Xbox/Playstation. This is a small MMORPG that's archaic." You have to realise my point is that the Y!PP friend referral system needs an overhaul. What good do I get from referring a friend to this game? In what way do they learn how to do all aspects of it? If I see a new account being made I don't think I've seen a change in that system at all since it was put in x amount of years ago. You can blame each other, the doubloon system, the devs and the current player base/pokerers all you want about the lack of new players, but if it's a game that is essentially player run with OM supervisors as you guys said, then we should have more of an incentive to help new players? If I made a brand new pirate now I will go past the very basic tutorials and stand at the docks of a now unknown island and think: "Right. What to do now?" New players need some sort of goal to work towards with good rewards. At the minute, after 7 years I'm still logging on without a purpose or reason to. Why not put in some quest lines into the game and include something with the BKs?

They'll be a doubloon debate even after the game has finally folded, it's endless and for me it's not the main reason why players aren't playing. Important yes, but Puzzle Pirates is an extremely hard game to get into and usually helps a lot if you have a friend already settled in the game willing to help.
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Magneto - Emerald

Cutingchris - Meridian Malachite (will never be forgotten)
[Jul 12, 2016 6:52:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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