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SJMoore



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Doubloons in Coffers? Reply to this Post
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This is just a suggestion, Im not sure if it would be any good, so i would like to know of your verdits?

In stalls, you can deposit PoE in the form of Coffers. It would be good if you could deposit doubloons as well.
Also, when you go out pillaging, it may be good to be able to gain Dubs form beating other pirates in PvP and maybe from Brigands. They could be made rare, like gold ore and Krakens Blood, so not many will be pillaged, but it could add another incentive to go out pillaging?!.

Please reply to this idea, on whether im off my rocker or on a good line.

Thanks
[Jun 28, 2005 12:08:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rroberts



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Re: Doubloons in Coffers? Reply to this Post
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Since Doubloons can be easily purchased/traded for actual poe, there's no real reason to implement this I don't think, as you can just exchange the poe that you win for doubloons. That said, in the same vein, you can exchange your poe for Blood or other things also, so I guess your principle is sound enough.

Good thinking lad, it's nice to see our newer players putting some thought into Game Design issues to make things a little more interesting. :)

Scarab
--not dismissive
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ihope127



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Re: Doubloons in Coffers? Reply to this Post
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Hmm...

Depositing Doubloons in shops would be a nice addition maybe, as well as holds and booty...

However pillaging them wouldn't work too good, as the only way Doubloons could be lost to brigands and stuff was if they were in the booty or else in the hold as commodities. There's not much reason to have them there...

So first idea yes, second idea no. ;-) And by the way new feature suggestions commonly go to the Game Design forum...
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[Jun 28, 2005 12:54:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rroberts



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Hmm. With further thought, not sure I am keen on the depositing in stalls idea. Stalls and shoppes aren't supposed to be banks. They're stalls and shoppes. I don't think this would achieve much to be honest.

Scarab
--re-thinking
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SJMoore



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Re: Doubloons in Coffers? Reply to this Post
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with reponse to the last idea

You say that the Stalls are not banks, yet if this is not so, why have coffers at all. I know they are for the Trading.

So...in a stall, a abandoned item still needs to be paid for with dubs, s it could still be usefull in that respect?
[Jun 28, 2005 2:20:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rroberts



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SJMoore wrote: 
You say that the Stalls are not banks, yet if this is not so, why have coffers at all. I know they are for the Trading.

I think you've answered your own question there mate. You need poe in the coffers to buy and trade goods for the stall.
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Lizthegrey
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Re: Doubloons in Coffers? Reply to this Post
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The problem of shoppe theft by managers is already pretty bad - we probably don't want to compound the problem by having people "leave" doubloons in coffers, and complain loudly when they're taken
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Lord_Mogor



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the whole complaint issue probaly has more then half the complaints coming in revolve around thefts of some kind
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fanta

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Re: Doubloons in Coffers? Reply to this Post
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I don't think OOO would let you win doubloons from brigands when they want you to buy them so they can make more money. Man, then i want to be able to win extra subscription days on the subscription oceans. Will be hard to divvy though.
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[Jun 28, 2005 5:53:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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Re: Doubloons in Coffers? Reply to this Post
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I'd nix the idea on the grounds that since you payed actual money for your doubloons, having them taken by brigands would be a -bad- idea, and result in a lot of complaints, as jobbers start into the captain for "losing my money" if they lost the fight.

As for storing them in shops/stalls, why? They're universally on you when you want to use them, why would you even -want- to store them in your coffers? I mean, I can only think of one reason, being so your managers can order and pay for items for the rack without needing their own doubloons, but if that's the case, you can just /tip them however many you want them to use.
[Jun 28, 2005 7:55:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SJMoore



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Basically, you are saying that it is silly to have Dubs in the holds of ships, as people have paid for them, and to lose them in a battle would be rubbish. But just think of when you leave PoE in the coffers, you lose them, and they are gained from the sale of Dubs, so in a way, your still losing your money!!.
And in stalls, you say that theft is common anyway, without making it even worse, yet don't you only make good, trustworthy friends a manager of your stall?
I'm thinking more of the fact that if abandoned items are left at the stall, the manager, can deliver the item to the stall without having to wait for the owner to do such a transaction.
[Jun 28, 2005 5:52:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SiM99

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Re: Doubloons in Coffers? Reply to this Post
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SJMoore wrote: 
Also, when you go out pillaging, it may be good to be able to gain Dubs form beating other pirates in PvP and maybe from Brigands.


I havent't played much on a dubloon ocean, so I don't knw if the same rules as the Midnight ones apply, but...

You take a ship out and get 4 jobbers. You get anywhere from 1 to 3 dubloons on the pillage and 2 of the jobbers request they get a dubloon as well as their PoE (or instead of some of their PoE, makes no difference)

What are you gonna do here?

SJMoore wrote: 
They could be made rare, like gold ore and Krakens Blood, so not many will be pillaged, but it could add another incentive to go out pillaging?!.


In this example, I don't think that this would make much difference, as when pillagers return to port with kraken's blood (on Midnight) a lot of captains/SOs will first sell he krakens blood and then share the proceeds along with the booty. I think anyone that pillages dubloons wouldn't really want to sel them on, so this could cause some arguments among the crew.
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fanta

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First of all, who would ever put doubloons in the hold, so they can lose them? Second, the doubloons do represent real money, now if someone decides to spend them, on either clothes, a badge or poe, by trading them, then they bought something for them, something they know they may lose at some point, to either decay or to wagers or pvp.

And theft is not common, but there are always dumb people that make just someone manager, just as they apperently make just anyone officer. Which is actually leading to the devs making yet another rank. So why would they on one hand do something to prevent theft from ships by making another rank, and then make something else so that someone can actually steal someones doubloons. Besides, something abandoned does not have to be removed right away.
----------------------------------------
Pleun,
First Mate of Monkey Militia, TO in Carpe Noctem, Midnight ocean,
owner of the Dainty Dolphin and the Mystical Dragon.

Avatar made from artwork by Kagaya
[Jun 28, 2005 7:32:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SJMoore



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OK, the main reason i did this lead, was because, i am a manager of a tailors stall, and we always put orders into our own stall.
To then deliver the clothes, i will (Most of the time) need Dubs, and as just a helper for the Owner, it's his money, and im not going to spend moy own money in helping his stall!! (Not being selfish i hope). The idea may need quite a lot of development, but its at least a start!.
[Jun 28, 2005 8:03:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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The one reason you want it already has a perfectly easy to use work-around, in /tip.

The other functionality you're looking at, being the ability to pillage doubloons from brigands requires one of two things:

1/ People can -lose- doubloons to brigands, so you can get them from brigands afterwards.

or

2/ Brigands can just spontaneously be carrying doubloons

If 1/ were ever implemented, people would stop buying doubloons in advance, or saving or stockpiling them ever, since they could lose what could in some cases be a substantial monetary investment (10 bucks when you're 14 and unemployed can be a decent amount of money) and would simply only carry them when they were about to make a purchase.

If 2/ were to be implemented, the amount of doubloons in the economy would inflate well in advance of what it should, the value of them would drop, and while for the individual that sounds great, because you can buy them at the exchange for less, since their value is lowered substantially, people will again be far less likely to ever buy doubloons for IRL money more than the ones they needed right then to make a purchase.
[Jun 29, 2005 4:18:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SJMoore



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I know that the pillaging aspect of this lead may need some work on it, but let me know what you think of the stall idea please.

Thanks
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ceryl



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Sounds like this option might be useful for tailors and shipwights, where premades are common, as is number of items not picked up I hear. But this would only be really useful if shop orders were introduced that could be ordered and delivered by any manager.

The only dubloons introduced to this system should be those purchased from the ringers though.

Regarding shop theft. Many there ought be be prominent warnings about trusting complete strangers, or something like "Stupid people are often victims of their own stupidity". I would never trust someone as a manager I hadn't known a while, whom had earned my trust.
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Starfaller



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ceryl wrote: 
Sounds like this option might be useful for tailors and shipwights, where premades are common, ...


Most distilleries and ironmongers order their product to sell dockside so this, again, would be a reason to have to use doubloons. Glad I'm willing to pay 9.95 a month for a monthly subscription, I order too much stuff!
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BehindCurtai

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Re: Doubloons in Coffers? Reply to this Post
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Two uses for putting doubloons in a shop hold:

1. Offline tipping. Allowing any manager to deliver stuff. Etc.

2. If stalls ever get a weekly doubloon rent in addition to the poe rent, this will allow them to pay it.

(I've got back and force on the idea of weekly doubloon rents. Bottom line: I think doubloon pricing and costs need a big reworking, and a weekly rent is part of it.)
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Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

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ceryl



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Starfaller wrote: 
ceryl wrote: 
Sounds like this option might be useful for tailors and shipwights, where premades are common, ...


Most distilleries and ironmongers order their product to sell dockside so this, again, would be a reason to have to use doubloons. Glad I'm willing to pay 9.95 a month for a monthly subscription, I order too much stuff!


Rum and shot (mmm, shots of rum) don't have a delivery dubloon charge. Would be insanely expensive to pillage if it did.

Seeing as there is a dubloon exchange, I don't see the point of mixing the rent. The initial setup fees are quite high including poe and dubloons, so hopefully that would keep too many non-serious pirates out of it.
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BehindCurtai

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First, the idea of a weekly doubloon rent would be to eliminate or reduce the high doubloon startup. Change it to a weekly fee, rather than a one time startup that makes it more expensive to close and move/reopen. Pay the ringers 25 or 50 cents every week your shop is open, rather than 2.50 once no matter how long it stays open. Etc.

Second, for any shop, if it is cheaper to buy from another shop than from your own, it makes sense to. But anything that can be bought and resold has a potential for having a doubloon charge. Right now, I think that's only paint at apoths, but that means that you could forsee a need to have a "manager's ordering stash" of doubloons. (Not to mention taking deliveries on premade ships, etc.)
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"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

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promises05



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I think this would also be a useful idea for houses. My "roommate" is someone I share doubloons with anyway and it would be handy to be able to share without the other one having to be online. It is a pain having to trade D's for poe and put those in the coffers than when we need D's trade the poe back for them.

I think this could be implemented on ships as well. I don't think they should be able to be pillaged away but it would be cool if there were a way other than tipping to contribute to the purchase of ships in a crew or flag. The only thing would be trusting that the captain wouldn't take them to buy him/herself new clothes but I guess if you try to contribute you have to worry about where the poe/doubloons go to anyway.
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Benzene265

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Weekly doub rent?! You're killing us!

I'd rather pay it all at once. 50 cents a week will add up to $2.50 in a mere 5 weeks. And forget about keeping a shop open all year. Who knows what that would do to our economy, especially since the bigger stalls and shops would probably cost more to run.

Ringers, ignore the part about doub fees for shoppes!




Anyway, /tip always works well. You and your manager can always share an alt account and just /tip the shared alt.

Labor alts, jobbing alts, whisking alts, and now: doub coffer alts. You can even make said shared alt another manager, if your stall is big enough.
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Peter_Blood

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Actually, it'd be kind of nice as someone helping out at a tailor to be able to have dubs in stall. Also have an option to get dubs for rack clothing, since shoppe owners have to use dubs to deliver, be nice way to get their dubs back. I help a friend manage his, and if I knew I could get my dubs back, instead of POE, I'd make more to put on rack. If I want to sell my dubs, it's easier and more expedient to do so on market.
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Robberbaron

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promises05



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I agree that I would like to see a doubloon option for the rack items. I get a lot of people coming into my stall and yelling at me that my prices are too high because they have the doubloon costs factored in.

It would also be useful for abandoned items and "doubloon sales".. right now what we are doing is paying the delivery charge and putting the item on the rack for whatever the doubloon price is times whatever poe value it is worth at the time. It would be more useful to be able to pay the delivery charge and then put it on the rack for the delivery charge in doubloons and be able to get that back. That way you wouldn't gain or lose any poe based on market fluctuations.

Then again I could always just add the price of the item into the doubloon cost and possibly make even more selling off the rack but for some reason that doesn't seem right to me. Instead I get people from other stalls buying stuff off of my rack and then I see it on their rack for more. Oh well.
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BehindCurtai

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The weekly dub rent idea was based on these assumptions:

1. Dubs were for "pay as you go" access to various parts of the game.
2. On a sub ocean, you had to be subscribed to run a shop (no longer true).

And the observation that on a dub ocean, a one time "subscription equivalent" allowed you to play the shopkeeping game forever.

At this point, I'll take the opposite stance: Since unsubscribed players can shopkeep for free on sub oceans, why not eliminate the dub charge to open a stall completely?
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"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

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Chainmaille

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At this point, I'll take the opposite stance: Since unsubscribed players can shopkeep for free on sub oceans, why not eliminate the dub charge to open a stall completely?

Only if you up the initial PoE cost then. We have enough bloody stupid stallkeepers as it is.
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Peter_Blood

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Amen, too many simpleton's going out and buying stalls, cause it's the thing to do, not cause they know what they're doing. Heck even the ones that do, seem inclined to bid it way up, and make it harder for smaller shoppes to afford supplies. Jack that poe cost up alot, lol.
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Robberbaron

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[Nov 17, 2005 5:14:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BehindCurtai

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Bump

I still think being able to put dubs in a "coffer" (ship hold, for crew donations; shop hold, for delivering premades (Tailors!), or ordering paint from another apoth) is a good idea.

I don't think that brigands should take or payout doubloons. Those would be immune to loss from brigands, just like PoE since global purse.

(And why is apoth paint the only dockside item with a dub charge? I know, it's the only dockside item that is an end user item. So why not charge for the application of paint rather than the delivery of paint? Why allow unsub'd pirates to paint? Why am I going offtopic with another rantcount ++?)
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"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

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Shyqueenie



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I'm going to put a new spin on it.

A crew mate just found himself in the horrible situation of discovering that he'd typed 100 in the dub box rather than the poe box during a trade. The guttersnipe who got them wouldn't give them back.

When saving up for something, you often end up carrying an awful lot of dubs... you can breathe easy about your poe when they're in a chest, but not so for the dubs
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Shyqueenie
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