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Keaze

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An incomplete guide to bombing in the lair Reply to this Post
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Since most of us(if not, a shedload of players I've ran with) are bomb-dependent. I thought might be nice to have a thread were we can share tips and stuff.

====

Turns

Here's a video showing what happens in each turn after bombing the head. (The video will be redone cause of the poor quality and the goofy numbering)

Turn 1: Bomb the head. The head and its tentacles will submerge
Turn 2: Free turn
Turn 3: Free turn
Turn 4: Free turn. Tentacles will appear at the END of the turn
Turn 5: Tentacles will move around. Be sure to be OUT of the kill zone by the end of the turn. Defendacles will appear at the end of the turn
Turn 6: The head is still submerged but you can bomb it!

====

Protective bombs

Protective bombs are kegs that are placed around your camping zone to prevent damage from respawning tentacles / defenfacles

Kegs will spawn on the 2nd turn after its used. I like to leave protective bomber on turn 3 or 4. NEVER 5 because you'd need that keg on turn 6

Your protective bombs should never obstruct a treasure route's entry or exit point. Observe the routes other players take to a treasure.

Your protective bombs should never obstruct your own route. For some maps, you can find that you can find a route where you can bomb on the first turn easily and make it back to your starting position by turn 6. You should never leave a bomb on that route/loop.

====

Defendacles


The BLACK section is where the kraken head is
The RED section is where the defendacles will spawn

Notes:
- There are 2 defendacles
- If a defendacle goes through a keg on the turn you sink the kraken head, it will stay submerged for 3 turns that its meant to be on the board. So it wont appear 3 times on the 5th turns UNLESS both defendacles are bombed in 1 turn. much sense.

Your starting point on the first turn is key. There are 2 defendacles on the board- one will spawn on the 2x8 left side and one will spawn on the 2x8 right side. The defendacles will never spawn on the 4x2 squares at the front and the back. So ideally, you should camp at the middle back or front 2 squares outside of the kraken zone. However, some of the maps will not allow you to bomb on the first turn if you camp at the front or the back. Tips for this is tba when i do find a good way to tackle these types of maps. Other player's tips are welcome and encouraged if you have any.

Tl;dr
Camp at the front or back unless it can't be helped

====

Kegs when you're making your way up to the kraken.

Leaving kegs on your path while making your way up to the head is not necessary but I do believe you can receive an extra cut if you do kill a few tentacles(something i disagree with but ehh). By the looks of it, kegs will not affect the tentacle's movements. Like they dont try to go around it, they just strut in and blow themselves up...bless. NEVER put a keg in entrances or exits. Players should never go out of their way to avoid kegs. If you're unsure, don't leave it there.
Best place to put a random keg: open whirlpools. <=only for extra points. This can annoy people cause they like that 1 extra square boost. xD

Tl;dr Think about where you're dropping the kegs

====

Maps





====

Bombing bugs.

1. If a tentacle goes through 2 kegs, both kegs will disappear but the second keg will still be intact and usable even though its invisible. fixed after the update

2. If there's a keg on your top-left square and a rocktentacle on your top-right square and you make a right(ram the rocktentacle), you will sink from the bomb.

3. If a keg tentacle spawns on a keg and they don't move on the first turn, the tentacles sink but the keg will still be visible though not usable. So if a player goes over the same keg, the blow up animation will happen but the player will not sink. With the update, defendacles no longer spawn on powder kegs.

4. Moving in to the head after bombing it on the same turn will make it look like you're ramming it. You will not gain damage from this and you should be in the right position at the end of the turn. If you go over a bomb after a during the desync, the bomb turns invisible.


====


Tips, comments and pictures of maps welcome.
----------------------------------------
Keaze
That Bombing Guide
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[Edit 7 times, last edit by Keaze at Aug 28, 2014 11:00:03 PM]
[Aug 13, 2014 10:56:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Belthazar451

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Re: An incomplete guide to bombing in the lair Reply to this Post
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Shhh, don't tell everyone how to do it, or I'll be out of a job. =P

Anyway, looks good. Think it could do with a image indicating which squares are actually occupied by the kraken - I keep bombing the corners and missing...

Also, a stern warning for everyone else to stay out of the death zone as well. Even though the tidal wave animation doesn't play if you bomb the head in the turn that it surfaces, its effects still occur immediately prior to the first move - if there's a ship in the zone, the animation will play, and they will sink.

Sinking a tentacle part also sinks the other tentacles with the same adjective (that is to say, they're all different loops of the same tentacle). The defendacles don't appear to be connected to any of the tentacles. I don't know if sinking tentacles gave me more booty, but I was the sole bomber on a run last weekend, and I got easily the most booty of anyone...

Edit:

Keaze wrote: 
I haven't read proof-read :3

Fixed. =P

 
2. If there's a keg on your top-left square and a rock on your top-right square and you make a right(ram the rock), you will sink.

You don't think that might also have something to do with the fact that the powder boat can't take more than a few bumps?
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Belthazar451 at Aug 14, 2014 1:01:37 AM]
[Aug 14, 2014 12:57:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
budclare2

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Re: An incomplete guide to bombing in the lair Reply to this Post
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Sinking a tentacle should sink all related tents, but doesn't always. I was considering the possibility that two separate tents just happened to end up with the same name, but I've since decided in favor of a regular old bug. (But I haven't actually bugged it yet, since I wasn't sure.) But I've seen it fail three or four times, and that's just when I happened to be watching.

I think the right front and right back corners are empty, but the others aren't...but I haven't tried them all, so I'm not positive. I know (think?) I've bombed the left front, and I'm pretty sure I've rammed the left back corner...
----------------------------------------
Budclare on Meridian

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(Imp turned me into a dolly! :D)
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Keaze

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Re: An incomplete guide to bombing in the lair Reply to this Post
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Sinking a tentacle should sink all related tents, but doesn't always. I was considering the possibility that two separate tents just happened to end up with the same name, but I've since decided in favor of a regular old bug. (But I haven't actually bugged it yet, since I wasn't sure.) But I've seen it fail three or four times, and that's just when I happened to be watching.

I think the right front and right back corners are empty, but the others aren't...but I haven't tried them all, so I'm not positive. I know (think?) I've bombed the left front, and I'm pretty sure I've rammed the left back corner...


My memory's cloudy but I think I've seen this happen too. Is it possible that if a tentacles moves on to a keg, it will only sink the bigger tentacles. Like if a small sized tentacle sinks, all of the tentacles with the same adj will sink but if you sink a medium, the largest tentacle will sink but the smallest wont..? We might be mistaken D: Let's look out for it =]
----------------------------------------
Keaze
That Bombing Guide
[Aug 14, 2014 9:32:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
budclare2

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Re: An incomplete guide to bombing in the lair Reply to this Post
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My memory's cloudy but I think I've seen this happen too. Is it possible that if a tentacles moves on to a keg, it will only sink the bigger tentacles. Like if a small sized tentacle sinks, all of the tentacles with the same adj will sink but if you sink a medium, the largest tentacle will sink but the smallest wont..? We might be mistaken D: Let's look out for it =]

That's what I saw the last time but I'm not sure about the other times. But I think I would have noticed if larger tents hitting kegs always left orphaned tents, so I assume it's an intermittent bug. Probably?

/e wants to blow more stuff up...for science. Really.


EDIT: Yes, it seems to be that (at least sometimes) sinking the larger doesn't sink the smallest. Maybe it isn't a bug? Was the group-sinking idea official, or did we just assume it? I can't remember...
----------------------------------------
Budclare on Meridian

I want a cookie.

(Imp turned me into a dolly! :D)
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by budclare2 at Aug 14, 2014 11:51:52 AM]
[Aug 14, 2014 10:59:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Bobafeis

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Re: An incomplete guide to bombing in the lair Reply to this Post
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Yay! I am glad this thread finally exists. Also, PICTURES! I approve of the picture!

Keaze wrote: 
My memory's cloudy but I think I've seen this happen too. Is it possible that if a tentacles moves on to a keg, it will only sink the bigger tentacles. Like if a small sized tentacle sinks, all of the tentacles with the same adj will sink but if you sink a medium, the largest tentacle will sink but the smallest wont..? We might be mistaken D: Let's look out for it =]


This actually matches pretty closely with what I've seen. Sink the small one and larger ones go too (only the smalls are counted on the sink chart though); sink a big one and the smalls remain.

As for my two poe on bombing:

Bombing from the side:

1. Bomb early in the turn. The earlier the better. The longer you spend moving into position, the longer the defendacles and random wandering tentacles have to intercept you. First turn is ideal (whirlpools are your friend. Just remember: first your move, then the whirlpool spins, then you bomb), second turn is great. Third turn is doable, but your luck will run out eventually. Fourth turn and you're really relying on luck - not to mention that if any of your shipmates get unlucky with spawns, two full turns of hawt tentacle-on-bote action will not end well for the bote. This actually applies to any bombing position, but it is especially important when bombing from the sides.

2. Find a starting point where you have your choice of routes. Sure, stick to one for most of it, but if it involves going to port-side and a defender spawns AMGrightthere, have one that involves heading starboard in the back of your mind, just in case.

3. Try and plan your circuit so any defenders spawning on top of you have to fight the winds. For instance, if winds are blowing to the south and your plan involves going south, good! Defenders spawning north of you may not reach you in time and defenders spawning south with have to fight the winds to come north. If your plan involves going north, defenders spawning to the north might be pushed into you.

4. I seem to notice that defendacles seem to spawn more in the corners on my (admittedly rare nowadays) turns as bomber, so a route in the center of a side is marginally safer. I have no hard data of my own or anyone else's to back that up though and no real desire to track defendacle spawn points (if anyone else does, let me know! I will analyze your data SO HARD.)


Getting to the head and dropping the first bomb:

1. Defendacles especially are very proficient at navigating winds and whirlies, but they are not actually clever. They do not do things like ram rocks to bounce off of them. They rarely use their turn in place inside a whirlpool - in fact, I don't think I've ever seen them swim in place to wait for me to enter a pool. They actually seem like Ruby (or whatever your hard arch is) imperials: they will head right for you by the most efficient route they can find. If they can't find a good route, they will repeat a failed one over and over again. You can use this to either evade them or bomb them.

2. If you have to, you can ram the head while it's up and not sink (this was not immediately obvious to me, so I assume it's not obvious to everyone). I don't recommend doing that as part of a circuit, because you will take damage, but if it's a choice between ramming the head and dropping a bomb or eating defendacle, ram away.

3. This probably also doesn't need saying for most people, but since sometimes people get married to ideas: if you see a perfect circuit that is currently infested with tentacles, and a risky-in-the-longterm route that is clear... use the latter route for your initial bomb and then move into position.

4. On rocky boards with those one-space-wide corridors where you can't find a good approach without eating defendacle, sometimes it pays to take the bumps and turn sideways, drop a bomb and wait for the defendacle to come visit you. This ties up both you and that corridor though, so it's more of a last ditch hail mary sort of deal.

5. If you find yourself nose to... sucker? with a tentacle on the start of a turn and don't know if it's facing you or not, use the spacer on your first move instead of just barging into it and praying. If it's not facing you, it will usually move out of your way by the second move. If it is facing you, you're screwed anyway, so sucks to be you. Sorry. The safe zone is totally nice this time of year.

Dropping kegs on the way up:

1. Don't drop any in long vertical windstreams, except maybe near the head. Don't drop any kegs at the start or end of those streams either. If it's a tight board that requires lots of maneuvering past the head and everyone's waiting for bomb to make a mad dash, I'd leave the area around the head clear.

2. Keaze said something about this but I will repeat it because I feel strongly about it: know how good your shipmates are at whirlpools. I know that for myself and several of my hearties, if you drop a bomb in a whirlpool, we will be annoyed because whirlpools let you cover a lot of ground, fast. I don't really want to take a super inefficient route out/away from tents spawning in my face when there's a perfectly good one right there with a bomb in it. If you are going with people who are scared of whirlpools (and you can get to high level bnav whilst avoiding them, so it pays to ask or watch), those are great ways to catch tents.

3. If the exit to a box has a wind pushing out, don't drop a bomb in the clear space at the end of the winds or the one after it. Sometimes people are dumb and will forget to turn while in the winds. Don't sink them for a moment's dumb.

4 If you have any shipmates who could potentially move into your bomb square within two turns, say that you're bombing and try and describe where if you can type/speak fast enough. For instance "Next to that statue shaped rock" can be processed much faster than just your moves. Remember! Turns are short, don't bomb your friends because they couldn't track your moves in time. Bomb them because the rowboat sinking animation is hilarious and adorable.
----------------------------------------
-Annarinda (blue)/Arryarrwoot (green)/possibly other pirates along the way-
Eca drew a picture of me.

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angel2512

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Turn 1: Bomb the head. The head and its tentacles will submerge
Turn 2: Free turn
Turn 3: Free turn
Turn 4: Free turn. Tentacles will appear at the END of the turn
Turn 5: Tentacles will move around. Be sure to be OUT of the kill zone by the end of the turn. Defendacles will appear at the end of the turn
Turn 6: The head is still submerged but you can bomb it!


I would like to try out bombing at some point but a bit confused.... So I have a few questions:

1. Does the kraken head resurface at move 1 of Turn 6 or move 4 of Turn 6?
2. Does the killer tidal wave take effect at move 1 of Turn 6? Or move 1 of Turn 7?
3. To prevent the kraken for resurfacing, does one move in to bomb at any move at Turn 5, or the 1st move of Turn 6?

Your OP says at "Turn 6 the head is still submerged but you can bomb it", but as far as I've noticed, the head resurfaces the turn after the defendacles appear (i.e. Turn 6 [or is it Turn 7, if you don't bomb it?]) and the tidal wave comes at the 1st move of Turn 6.

Reason I'm asking is because sometimes I've observed the bomber moving into position (from the safe spot) at the beginning of Turn 6, but the tidal wave doesn't kill it?

PS: I haven't had a chance to view the video in OP yet, am at work. So my apologies, it there was important information there that could have answered my questions above.

PS2: Also, is there a way to tell with tentacles and defendacles, which is their front, and which is their back? Someone said in another thread that it doesn't necessarily correlate with it's supposed orientation as seen in game (i.e. their backs, isn't their back and their front isn't their front....?)
----------------------------------------
~Saphireangel~

SO of Mischievous Drifters,
Lady of Maniacal Menagerie,
Cerulean, once a Cobalt native.
(also lurking on all English oceans)

Angelfish collector
Avatar gorgeousness by the lovely Angelira!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 3 times, last edit by angel2512 at Aug 15, 2014 3:08:10 AM]
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patgangster

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Re: An incomplete guide to bombing in the lair Reply to this Post
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1. Does the kraken head resurface at move 1 of Turn 6 or move 4 of Turn 6?
2. Does the killer tidal wave take effect at move 1 of Turn 6? Or move 1 of Turn 7?
3. To prevent the kraken for resurfacing, does one move in to bomb at any move at Turn 5, or the 1st move of Turn 6?

PS2: Also, is there a way to tell with tentacles and defendacles, which is their front, and which is their back? Someone said in another thread that it doesn't necessarily correlate with it's supposed orientation as seen in game (i.e. their backs, isn't their back and their front isn't their front....?)


1. Before move 1 of turn 6. Call it "move 0" if you want. If you bomb it during turn 6 however, the animation of it rising never happens.

2. Also on "move 0" of turn 6.

3. During turn 6.

PS2: No, not in any way other than tracking their movements.
----------------------------------------
TriplePat, Emerald.
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budclare2

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Re: An incomplete guide to bombing in the lair Reply to this Post
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Okay, I was able to confirm that sinking a tent only sinks that segment and any larger segments of the tent. Sinking a large tentacle only sinks the large; sinking a medium tent sinks that and the large (if there is one).

It does seem consistent, so maybe it's a feature rather than a bug.


EDIT:
 
Remember! Turns are short, don't bomb your friends because they couldn't track your moves in time. Bomb them because the rowboat sinking animation is hilarious and adorable.

<3
----------------------------------------
Budclare on Meridian

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(Imp turned me into a dolly! :D)
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by budclare2 at Aug 15, 2014 5:59:15 AM]
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angel2512

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1. Before move 1 of turn 6. Call it "move 0" if you want. If you bomb it during turn 6 however, the animation of it rising never happens.

2. Also on "move 0" of turn 6.

3. During turn 6.

PS2: No, not in any way other than tracking their movements.


1. If the kraken's head surfaces at move 0 of turn 6, but I bomb it during turn 6, doesn't the animation of it rising still plays? Since it surfaces at move 0 of turn 6, but the bomb won't be deployed until move 1/2/3/4 of turn 6?

Unless you meant the "phantom of a head will surface and the damage from the tidal wave / a ram to the head will take place" in move 0 but the image doesn't actually show until the end of turn 6 (if you didn't bomb it in turn 6)?

2. If tidal wave takes place at move 0 of turn 6, and I sail anywhere into the 8x8 box of kraken domain in Move 1 of turn 6, am I safe from tidal wave?

3. So does one attempt to try and deploy keg at move 4 of Turn 5? or is that a complete no no?
----------------------------------------
~Saphireangel~

SO of Mischievous Drifters,
Lady of Maniacal Menagerie,
Cerulean, once a Cobalt native.
(also lurking on all English oceans)

Angelfish collector
Avatar gorgeousness by the lovely Angelira!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by angel2512 at Aug 15, 2014 5:56:05 AM]
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Belthazar451

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angel2512 wrote: 
1. If the kraken's head surfaces at move 0 of turn 6, but I bomb it during turn 6, doesn't the animation of it rising still plays? Since it surfaces at move 0 of turn 6, but the bomb won't be deployed until move 1/2/3/4 of turn 6?

Strangely, no. If you successfully sink the kraken on the turn it rises, the animation doesn't play - you just hear the kraken screech and the ink reappears. However, if there's something in the danger zone at the start of the turn, or you miss your shot (for whatever reason) the animation will play.

 
2. If tidal wave takes place at move 0 of turn 6, and I sail anywhere into the 8x8 box of kraken domain in Move 1 of turn 6, am I safe from tidal wave?

Yes, you're safe entering in the first move. You can't start inside the zone, though.

 
3. So does one attempt to try and deploy keg at move 4 of Turn 5? or is that a complete no no?

Move four is fine, apparently. You been reading the other posts in this thread?
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angel2512

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angel2512 wrote: 
1. If the kraken's head surfaces at move 0 of turn 6, but I bomb it during turn 6, doesn't the animation of it rising still plays? Since it surfaces at move 0 of turn 6, but the bomb won't be deployed until move 1/2/3/4 of turn 6?

Strangely, no. If you successfully sink the kraken on the turn it rises, the animation doesn't play - you just hear the kraken screech and the ink reappears. However, if there's something in the danger zone at the start of the turn, or you miss your shot (for whatever reason) the animation will play.

 
2. If tidal wave takes place at move 0 of turn 6, and I sail anywhere into the 8x8 box of kraken domain in Move 1 of turn 6, am I safe from tidal wave?

Yes, you're safe entering in the first move. You can't start inside the zone, though.

 
3. So does one attempt to try and deploy keg at move 4 of Turn 5? or is that a complete no no?

Move four is fine, apparently. You been reading the other posts in this thread?


1. Hmmm. I mute all sounds, so I don't hear anything. But it is rather strange that a phantom head / tidal wave appears at move 0 but the animation doesn't play until later in the turn. It confuses me, because as mostly a treasure runner, I have tried to err on the side of caution, and only exit my egg spawn area at Turn 7. So trying to get the timing right might help with a swifter / more efficient exit.

3. Yea I've been reading all posts, so I apologise if I seem to be a bit slow on the uptake. I have not tried bombing so far, I've only been amassing theoretical knowledge. Methinks it'll help if I get some practical experience too. Heh. Looking to get a map to go practise bombing by myself so I don't mess everyone's run up in case I make booboos.

On that note though, if one DOES deploy keg at move 4 of Turn 5, and is within the the danger zone, doesn't the tidal wave at move 0 turn 6 then kill the bomber as it tries to exit? (Since the bomber starts Turn 6 in the danger zone itself) [although I think further up this thread in another thread, you did question whether deploying at move 4 of Turn 5 was ok and someone replied saying it was] Hmm. Sounds inconsistent to me, which is why the confusion.
----------------------------------------
~Saphireangel~

SO of Mischievous Drifters,
Lady of Maniacal Menagerie,
Cerulean, once a Cobalt native.
(also lurking on all English oceans)

Angelfish collector
Avatar gorgeousness by the lovely Angelira!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 4 times, last edit by angel2512 at Aug 15, 2014 6:20:20 AM]
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Belthazar451

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1. Hmmm. I mute all sounds, so I don't hear anything. But it is rather strange that a phantom head / tidal wave appears at move 0 but the animation doesn't play until later in the turn.

No, the animation doesn't play at all when you're successful at re-sinking the head. It plays immediately before the first move if you're not.

 
It confuses me, because as mostly a treasure runner, I have tried to err on the side of caution, and only exit my egg spawn area at Turn 7. So trying to get the timing right might help with a swifter / more efficient exit.

Basically, just don't be in the danger zone at the start of the turn in which the head surfaces and you should be right. Except for being swarmed by tentacles, in any case.

 
On that note though, if one DOES deploy keg at move 4 of Turn 5, and is within the the danger zone, doesn't the tidal wave at move 0 turn 6 then kill the bomber as it tries to exit? (Since the bomber starts Turn 6 in the danger zone itself) [although I think further up this thread in another thread, you did question whether deploying at move 4 of Turn 5 was ok and someone replied saying it was] Hmm. Sounds inconsistent to me, which is why the confusion.

Oh, I misread "turn 5" as "turn 6". Honestly, I'm not entirely certain what happens if you attempt to pre-mine the kraken's spot while it's still sunk, and I'm not quite game enough to try, though I assume others have. One would assume the kraken would ignore any bombs already sitting in its space when it surfaces, otherwise I could just skip all this timing stuff and simply make sure I drop a barrel while the kraken's gone.

But yeah, if you drop a bomb on the final move of the previous turn, there's no way you're getting out alive. The kraken's surfacing effect will still hit you at the start of the sixth turn.
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Arrobyn

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Honestly, I'm not entirely certain what happens if you attempt to pre-mine the kraken's spot while it's still sunk, and I'm not quite game enough to try, though I assume others have. One would assume the kraken would ignore any bombs already sitting in its space when it surfaces, otherwise I could just skip all this timing stuff and simply make sure I drop a barrel while the kraken's gone.


Tried it last night while practising my bombing technique, and no, pre mining has no effect. I suppose if it did it would be too easy.
----------------------------------------
Arrobyn of Meridian
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Formerly Chrismor of Viridian

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angel2512

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.....Oh, I misread "turn 5" as "turn 6". Honestly, I'm not entirely certain what happens if you attempt to pre-mine the kraken's spot while it's still sunk, and I'm not quite game enough to try, though I assume others have. One would assume the kraken would ignore any bombs already sitting in its space when it surfaces, otherwise I could just skip all this timing stuff and simply make sure I drop a barrel while the kraken's gone.

But yeah, if you drop a bomb on the final move of the previous turn, there's no way you're getting out alive. The kraken's surfacing effect will still hit you at the start of the sixth turn.


OIC. Thanks for the advice and replies everyone! I think I understand a more about how to bomb the kraken! Shall go try it out soon. TY again!
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[Aug 15, 2014 9:00:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
budclare2

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Okay, I figured something out. It doesn't help help, but it does make the whole thing less confusing, and that's never bad.

All of our new damage shows as soon as the timer runs out, even though the moves that gave us the damage haven't technically happened yet. Likewise, bombing the head in any move counts as bombing it at the beginning of the turn, at least for the purposes of the resurfacing/wave animation...which is why you can keep the head down by bombing it after it should have already risen. Its damage indicator cancels the animation, even though it maybe shouldn't. (Maybe having the rising and sinking animations on the same turn is messy?)

Also, I've decided that the visible wave from the animation is not actually what sinks you; you get sunk by the non-visible disturbance in the water as the kraken is rising but before it surfaces. (Giant cephalopod contracting its body repeatedly to propel itself back to the surface = badness.) That's why a boat caught inside on the wrong turn sinks even if the bomber resinks the head to stop it from rising, and a bomber can survive a failed resink attempt even though the visible wave hits them.

(I'm not sure if that's the reasoning the devs used, but it's what I'm going with to make it make sense in my head. Just memorizing the turns and trying to ignore the logic worked well enough, but it kept nagging at me.)
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[Aug 22, 2014 8:15:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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You can't pre-mine the kraken. You could do that on Ice originally and people correctly complained that it was way too easy.
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[Aug 23, 2014 10:42:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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You can't pre-mine the kraken. You could do that on Ice originally and people correctly complained that it was way too easy.


True, you can't pre-mine it. However, the head is supposed to spawn before move 1 in the turn it does. You can see this because it'll sink anyone within range before they have a chance to move, and defendacles will ram into an invisible wall exactly where the Kraken should be.

But what Budclare was (correctly) saying is: If you drop a mine on the Kraken head at any point during the turn immediately after it spawns, the head will never appear. Its effects are there - ships too close will sink, rams happen, etc. - but you can't see it. If you don't drop a mine on it that first turn, it appears as normal.
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[Aug 25, 2014 10:28:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
Keaze

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If you're ever on a ship bigger than a sloop and got this map...


Keaze goes F F - -
Keazers goes F •R - -


For anyone wondering, I was hosting a non-elite baghlah run. I sometimes have 1 egg and 1 bomb pirate. I had one of these maps so I had 2 on bombs.
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Keaze
That Bombing Guide
[Aug 29, 2014 10:35:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
budclare2

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Yet another fun kraken quirk...

We know that it's possible to bump off the submerged kraken head during the up-but-not-up turn...but it's not actually up-but-not-up for the entire turn. You can definitely bump-turn off the head on move three and probably on move two, but on move one it's not there yet. Which we didn't realize because even with a down-on-one bombing route, you can't possibly bump it on move one.

So, if you feel secure in the knowledge that the defendacle can't possibly get to you in time to stop you without driving right through a keg, you might be wrong. They can hop right across a (non-empty) kraken corner on move one to sink you.

(This also explains how the defens are sometimes under/over the head when it rises; they were able to move into the headspace on move one.)

Too lazy to make and upload a pic, so here's the worst diagram ever:
DKKK_
B

Defendacle spawn square/front of the kraken
bomb location

Even if it had turned through the keg and sunk in front of me, I still would have missed* it since it was a down-on-two route. It seemed so safe... :(


*Actually, I'm hazy on the weird sink mechanics. It's just sinking boats that you can repeatedly bounce off, isn't it? I'm sure I'd remember if it happened with defendacles, too...
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Budclare on Meridian

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[Oct 30, 2014 12:08:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemedor

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Yet another fun kraken quirk...

We know that it's possible to bump off the submerged kraken head during the up-but-not-up turn...but it's not actually up-but-not-up for the entire turn. You can definitely bump-turn off the head on move three and probably on move two, but on move one it's not there yet. Which we didn't realize because even with a down-on-one bombing route, you can't possibly bump it on move one.

So, if you feel secure in the knowledge that the defendacle can't possibly get to you in time to stop you without driving right through a keg, you might be wrong. They can hop right across a (non-empty) kraken corner on move one to sink you.

(This also explains how the defens are sometimes under/over the head when it rises; they were able to move into the headspace on move one.)

Too lazy to make and upload a pic, so here's the worst diagram ever:
DKKK_
B

Defendacle spawn square/front of the kraken
bomb location

Even if it had turned through the keg and sunk in front of me, I still would have missed* it since it was a down-on-two route. It seemed so safe... :(


*Actually, I'm hazy on the weird sink mechanics. It's just sinking boats that you can repeatedly bounce off, isn't it? I'm sure I'd remember if it happened with defendacles, too...


 
Yet another fun kraken quirk...

We know that it's possible to bump off the submerged kraken head during the up-but-not-up turn...but it's not actually up-but-not-up for the entire turn. You can definitely bump-turn off the head on move three and probably on move two, but on move one it's not there yet. Which we didn't realize because even with a down-on-one bombing route, you can't possibly bump it on move one.

So, if you feel secure in the knowledge that the defendacle can't possibly get to you in time to stop you without driving right through a keg, you might be wrong. They can hop right across a (non-empty) kraken corner on move one to sink you.

(This also explains how the defens are sometimes under/over the head when it rises; they were able to move into the headspace on move one.)

Too lazy to make and upload a pic, so here's the worst diagram ever:
DKKK_
B

Defendacle spawn square/front of the kraken
bomb location

Even if it had turned through the keg and sunk in front of me, I still would have missed* it since it was a down-on-two route. It seemed so safe... :(


*Actually, I'm hazy on the weird sink mechanics. It's just sinking boats that you can repeatedly bounce off, isn't it? I'm sure I'd remember if it happened with defendacles, too...


I'm not 100% sure if I get what you're saying but in my experience defendacle can't go trough the kraken is the submerge turn. For instance when you have a board like this:

X = Wind
0 = Whirlpool
K = Kraken
D = Defendacle

XXXXXXXX
X00....00X
X0KKKK0X
X..KKKK..X
X..KKKK..X
XDKKKK0X
X00....00X
XXXXXXXX

Then I'm almost 100% sure the defendacle can't go trough the submerged kraken at turn 1.
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Nemedor on Emerald
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[Oct 31, 2014 2:47:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
budclare2

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Yeah, I hallucinated the whole thing.

It was facing the kraken. It turned right. Kiss my booty?
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Budclare on Meridian

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[Oct 31, 2014 7:38:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemedor

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Yeah, I hallucinated the whole thing.

It was facing the kraken. It turned right. Kiss my booty?


Wowa. That was not a hate comment mate. I just shared my opinion because I'm not 100% sure either..
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Nemedor on Emerald
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[Oct 31, 2014 10:30:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
budclare2

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Yeah, I hallucinated the whole thing.

It was facing the kraken. It turned right. Kiss my booty?


Wowa. That was not a hate comment mate. I just shared my opinion because I'm not 100% sure either..

No, not hate, just stupidly dismissive. Do you want a prize for that?

If you don't believe me, that's your business. And don't waste my time claiming you were just asking for clarification. You in no way asked for clarification.
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Budclare on Meridian

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[Oct 31, 2014 2:44:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemedor

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Yeah, I hallucinated the whole thing.

It was facing the kraken. It turned right. Kiss my booty?


Wowa. That was not a hate comment mate. I just shared my opinion because I'm not 100% sure either..

No, not hate, just stupidly dismissive. Do you want a prize for that?

If you don't believe me, that's your business. And don't waste my time claiming you were just asking for clarification. You in no way asked for clarification.


Lol you need to chill mate, if you get offended by someone giving an other view of your theory in a Tips & tricks, Questions & Answers thread you got issues.

Besides that. As I pointed out in my post I only gave my view about how I saw the defendacle getting blocked. I never called you a liar or anything just saying how I saw the thing jeez
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[Nov 1, 2014 7:20:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Maialiana

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We know that it's possible to bump off the submerged kraken head during the up-but-not-up turn...but it's not actually up-but-not-up for the entire turn.

I have just distinctly seen a defendacle bump into the submerged head on the first move of the turn. It bumped it again on 2nd, then I sank the head at the end of the 2nd move.
I wonder if it depends on the part of the head?
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Guipsp



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The kraken is bumpable before it is sunk. After it is sunk it is no longer bumpable.
[Nov 2, 2014 5:07:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Keaze

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I've patrially seen what Budclare's talking about. I definitely remember defendacles being "stuck" on/under the kraken head(normally on the left side corners of the head too). and it being unable to move which ever way it turns multiple times but I've no idea what causes it.

I'm not certain about the first turn no-bump thing. On the OP, theres a link to the kraken bomb video (at 1:05) where the left defendacle doesnt turn through the head but it shows that it will bump on the first turn.

I'll make a note on what happens next time I see it =)
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Keaze
That Bombing Guide
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Keaze at Nov 2, 2014 6:35:20 AM]
[Nov 2, 2014 6:28:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
budclare2

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Lol you need to chill mate, if you get offended by someone giving an other view of your theory in a Tips & tricks, Questions & Answers thread you got issues.

I'm "offended" by your communication skills. The only thing you actually contributed to the conversation was the fact that you've never seen anything like that happen, and you did a piss-poor job even saying that much. And it wasn't my theory you were commenting on, it was the experience itself. If you had suggested that it was just a weird bug, that would have been giving "an other view" of my theory, i.e. an alternative to the theory that maybe it's always unbumpable on move one. You did no such thing.

Even if what happened to me was just a weird bug, a weird bug that happens sometimes STILL HAPPENS. Which is why I'm wondering what exactly you thought your post was accomplishing.

There is no question whatsoever, whether you want to believe it or not, that now and then the defendacles do not bump off the submerged head. Even if no one else can confirm seeing a turn* through the head's corner, there are plenty of people who've seen the defendacles get briefly overlapped by the head. I've seen it half a dozen times, and talked once or twice to other people who were on the board with me and saw it too. This is not in dispute.

Do you have something useful to contribute or not? Because so far it's been not.

(We are never, ever going to get along, honestly, because we're in no shape or form communicating. We might as well be speaking different languages...except if we were speaking different languages, you couldn't possibly make me facepalm.)


*Though looking at the kraken cluster in question, it must have actually moved forward into the head, then been pushed to its right by wind rather than using a right turn move; it's the cluster with a sort of checkerboard of wind along the front and back, so if it had used a right turn move, the wind it landed on would have pushed it into the keg it rudely avoided. So, probably just a special case of the overlapping (probable) bug, in that it was able to extract itself thanks to the wind rather than needing to be popped unceremoniously back out by some kind of error-correction. But if it is just a bug, then I have no idea whatsoever what causes it. At least that weird desynching when you turn into the head right after you keg it makes some kind of sense. This one just seems hella random if the head really is bumpable even on move one. Though a lot about the head resinking seems hella random, so I'm not sure why I even bat an eye anymore.
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[Nov 2, 2014 6:54:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Keaze

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Tinyurl.com/krakenbomb for this thread

Tinyurl.com/krakendown for this post

Because apparently people read this so I made it easier to find
Thank you, Nickbush(Everywhere) and Utrick(Meridian) for your contributions =)

====================================

Triangles are where you should be before you can bomb (I think I noted this above but I'll repeat it anyway. I prefer being 2 spaces away from the kraken if i had turns to spare so the tentacles will be lured to that spot then I'll just go to the starting point before the turn to bomb)
Circles are the kegs I'd place

Some of these can vary like on map 5** where you can bomb one square to the left and it'd still be safe
You dont have to be on the triangle facing the pay I put it. a square on the left facing right or right facing left. Like this.
(Exception to map 5**)

There are some winds under the starting points but I'm pretending its not there cause it wont always be. Sometimes these route are blocked off completely.




Map1
F L
(1) F L?# x R, R x x x, L# L L x, ........
F L
(1) F L# L x, L F F x, L F# L x, .......



variation if the right side is closed off and also an easier loop for the bomber
====================================


Map2: Blue route: You can die from the purple route if a defendacle spawns facing you. If it spawns on the whirlpool, I'd stall 1-2 turns.
F
F L
F R

====================================


Map3
F R
(1) F #R L x, F R R x, #R R R x, ........
(3) F #R L x, L L x x, F# L x x, ........

F L
F L
(1) F L L x, F x x x, x x x# L, .......
F R


This variation allows speedboats to cross the map from the top in 7 moves compared to 9
====================================


Map4
F R
F R

====================================


Map5**
R
====================================


Map6
F L
====================================


Map7: Red route: A few bombers would do 1 square to the left of the triangle because the loop to the starting point is easy but it's not actually safe from the defendacle on the right side so avoid that!
F
(1) #F x R R, x x x x, #F x F R, .......
F R
(1) F #R x F, R x R x, F# L x x, ........
(2) F #R x F, R x x x, x# x x x, ........


====================================


Map8: Blue route: You can die from the blue route if a defendacle spawns facing you. If it spawns on the whirlpool, I'd stall 1-2 turns.
F R
F F


====================================

Hope it helps :) I tend to disegage the map if it doesnt let me do any of those routes

====================================


- Edit at 12/01/15 Improved the keg placements on map 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8.
It's better to not have any adjacent kegs as a tentacle(or player if they're clumsy) can rid of both bombs in 1 move.
and added which kegs i'd prioritise based on how many possible ways a defendacle could sink me
?????
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Keaze
That Bombing Guide
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[Edit 14 times, last edit by Keaze at Jan 16, 2015 8:41:15 PM]
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