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bailet

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Various Tips and Tricks for all your Puzzle needs! Reply to this Post
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Edit: While I realize Tzz has a post similar, I do not know if it is up to date, as Tzz blatantly ignores any tells I send. So apologies if it is!

Hello! One of the many things I had always looked for as a new and veteran pirate was a guide to assist me in learning a new puzzle. While some searches yielded results, others were outdated through puzzle updates/bug fixes or a change in curve. That said, I would love to create a community forged Tips and Tricks for most of the puzzles on a single thread. While this may have been done in the past, I would like to create a fresh and updated one for anyone interested and easy direction in learnings of a puzzle.

While it won't be a guide, there are many small things OOO doesn't officially tell you that a small group of individuals know, and it is time to spread them! While think I am fairly learned of the puzzles by now and how they work, I will not be correct every time, nor will I know all the tricks/tips as I learned most of my knowledge from various players. (Thank you Gorbatsjov, Masters, Capnsilver, Drajl, Preciousjewl, Inframan and anyone I missed!) And that is where you all come in. I would like everyone to give their thoughts and ideas that can be checked accurately from other players and confirmed.

As it will be player input, it is all subject to falsehood and should not be followed 100% since changes do happen and curves shift daily. If you have no new content but feel a revised wording of a paragraph would make more sense, please feel free to post that as well! This is supposed to be as accessible and noob-friendly as possible. Doing this for Piracy and Crafting puzzles. Carousing puzzles seem a little too situational to condense into a post like this, but if you have some carousing tip don't hesitate.

This is a living thread and will always be changing
The Format preferred:
Puzzle:
Scoring Focus/Criteria:
Good Strategy tips to follow:
Tricks or known bugs that may hinder play:
(Perhaps a video of ultimate level play, thoughts?)

Piracy

Sailing
Scoring Focus: Sailing is based around the creation of chains and gain value on each combo broken, multiplicative. Targets are worth more than floating blocks.
You are evaluated based on:
1. Time taken compared to the size of your break
2. The amount of blocks used in the combo(I.e. platform and target blocks)
3. Efficiency; how many blocks wasted to create your combo. Generally dropping 50 pieces that will not be broken will hurt you more than dropping 10.
Tricks:
1. Don't underestimate horizontal breaks. Setting up a break to occur on the bottom of the board can be rewarding, space efficient and lead to larger combos.
2. Build from the bottom up. This is especially true the larger targets that you get. It is much easier to build from the bottom than try to maneuver through blocks on the top.
3. It may be necessary to clear the floating platforms before moving on, as long as you can do it efficiently and time effectively.
4. A good rule of thumb is to create a break before setting off the target. Don't just drop your color on your target to begin your combo, set a 3 break up to drop onto the target for good practice and space usage!
Bugs: I have seen/heard that sailing tokens are not calculated correctly. Brought up by Capnsilver through a video and counting the amount of tokens/double bonus not being the same as the duty report. Needs confirmation.

Rigging
Scoring: Based on the amount cleared divided by turns taken. Pieces looped score VERY high, compared to normal cleared.
Scored based on:
1. Amount cleared over turns taken.
2. Time taken between each turn. (While this isn't scored as highly as other criteria, this is still a factor)
3. Looped pieces involved, large bonus.
4. Chaining non-adjacent hooks provides a bonus
Strategy:
1. Make an eye for forming loops or chaining hooks.
2. You HAVE to use the bonus peices if you want to score highly. Hook pieces can form other chains or create loops if placed correctly.
3. Clearing all of one color nearly every clear, or attempting to, is good practice and provides you with a tar piece which will allow you to always have a large amount of one color on the board most of the time.
4. Use Splice to create large loops by using multiple colors or use it to chain. You can only have one splice on the board at a time!
Tricks/Bugs:

Carpentry:
Scoring: You are best scored by keeping chains of Masterpiece (MP), and gain better score the higher the MP is.
Scored based on:
1. Time taken for placing each piece
2. Chain of MP
3. Any bonuses you may (Accidentally) get while filling in your board.
Strategy
1. Focus on the smallest holes first.
2. Only work on two holes at a time that are adjacent. This allows you to receive fresh boards each time you clear two adjacent and leaves more room for pieces you don't need.
3. Use your rare pieces first when you can. Common pieces generally fit in more places and have a larger usage. You don't want to be stuck with little options with very situational pieces!
4. Work outside-in. A square board is a friendly board!
5. Do NOT focus on bonuses. It consumes more time and can generally hinder another MP, which is always worth more.
Tricks/Bugs:
1. If you have a piece on the board and you hit a league point or break, it cements the piece in place not allowing you to change its position. Be careful!

Patching
Scoring based on:
1. Amount of the board used
2. Grommets multiply the board score.
3. Time taken to complete the board.
Strategy:
There are three types of patching you can do. Speed patching and board patching, and each have their success based on how well you do a specific type.
Speed patching revolves around completing the board in phenomenal speed, not focusing on pieces used or grommets as much as relying on spamming boards to achieve the correct indicator.
Board patching takes more time and focuses on getting close to a flawless and majority of grommets used. These large scores will generally be worth more than speed patching, as long as they are done at a reliable speed.
A third style is hybrid patching, which is the usage of all the grommets with little focus on board pieces and scores based on how fast you do the puzzle, in proportion to effective grommet and time management.
1. Ideally, you want to be able to connect to targets while expanding your combo. I.E. Leave open ends for grommets or board expansion as you complete the board.
2. Speed patching is best focused for tokening as full board makes patch tokens very difficult
3. The amount of grommets can help determine how to complete the board. If there are many grommets, leave ends open as you fill the board to allow easy and fast grommet connections. If there are few, leave fewer cuts. It is all about time!
Bugs:
Full list found here(Some may not exist any longer)

Bilging
Scoring based on:
1. Time between each click. (Small penalty with a large time, 10 seconds between each click stops you from being penalized)
2. Clear/combo divided by clicks taken.
3. Any crabs or small bonuses after each break.
Strategy:
1. When you first start bilging focus on attempting to clear one 3x3 in one click while you have very few colors.
2. While crabs are worth many points, especially when the water is high, do not waste clicks to remove them unless they obscure your other combos.
3. High level bilge focuses on constant bingos and sea donkeys/vegases. Larger combos can take many clicks to form while still being worth very many points. The Yppedia has a nice chart for all your score needs!
Tricks/bugs

Gunning:
Scoring based on:
1. Seconds taken each cannon filled.
2. You are penalized based off having to clean out a cannon that you made a mistake in. E.g. Rags rags cannons, not the dirt.
3. You gain a small bonus for cleaning out fired-cannons

Strategy:
1. Focus on two cannons at a time adjacent
2. Creating a loop on the board can be rewarding and time effective.
3. If the barrel becomes a problem, you can jump off the puzzle and back on to reset it. (In battles.)
4. Throwing pieces off the board is not known to hurt your score, but wastes time which will hurt it anyway.

Bugs:
1. When the pieces become too closely looped, sometimes they can be randomly deleted and respawned by the barrel

Navigation:
Scoring based on:
1. How fast you clear the constellation
2. The amount of targets in the constellation.
3. Any combos created.
4. Small breaks you may clear. (Hardly worth anything but space)
Strategy
1. Attempting to make combos is a waste of time. While combos score INCREDIBLY high, they are very luck based and not effective other than perhaps competition play.
2. Speed is a very big factor, but do not go so fast that you accidentally break something you don't want to, it ruins your score!
3. Try to keep an even color of stars in each circle. This will allow for faster combo creation and minimize your dependence of a specific color.

Battle Navigation
Scoring based on:
1. How much damage you put on the enemy ship.
2. If you are damaged by the ship, your score is reduced as a penalty.
3. Disengaging will not have any increase or decrease of your rank, it is essentially like the battle never happened as far as scores go.
General Strategy
1. Play according to the ship you are against. While it is generally not a good idea to trade shots, it is especially true the larger the ship is. While a Dhow is only two ships up, it can max you considerably faster than a regular sloop can, while maintaining the same amount of moves as a sloop.
2. It is possible to run the opposing ship out of moves. As you put damage into the enemy ship, it essentially gains bilge like normal ships and will start to run out of moves. While stalling a battle out to abuse their lack of moves is a viable strategy, this is generally harder if not impossible to do the higher class ship you are facing i.e. an elite pillage.
3. Calculate damage trades, not just trading cannons but rocks/walls as well. If you are put into a position where you can ram a rock to unleash several cannons onto the opposing ship, it is generally worth it unless they will have the position to fire back.
4. As far as grinding the ranking ladder, don't be afraid of disengaging. Minus a few grumblings from crew mates, reengaging after you have already put damage into the ship will allow you to abuse their lack of moves for an easy max-0 battle, rising your score sharply. Also, the higher rank and more skilled your shipmates are, the harder the battles and reengaging with a fresh chance becomes a better idea.
5. Be simple. You don't have to be flashy to do well. This is a mistake I see many people make in low level battles. They try to make amazing turns and spins and whirlpool plays, but end up messing up a chance to simply go forward, wait a turn, and fire.

Sword Fight

Rumble

Crafting
----------------------------------------
Clotho tells ye, "did you hide the skellies this time?"
OM MESSAGE: Complaining the on-duty OM will only result in another flurry of eggs being sent out into the YPP world. Go #TeamPurple!
Dalnoth's Favorite Pirate
----------------------------------------
[Edit 3 times, last edit by bailet at Jan 6, 2014 4:26:07 PM]
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hellguy333

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Re: Various Tips and Tricks for all your Puzzle needs! Reply to this Post
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Rumble

Strategy:

The general idea of rumble is a spin off of many bubble popping games, with a bit of a twist, you charge up groups to send "strikes" to your opponent, this is done by holding down the trigger until the ball flashes and then attaching it to a corresponding group, you then break the first group made in
the chain and send all of them, and any loose balls attached fall off too and send black balls (bruises)
to your opponent.
There are many ways to go about Rumbling, but there are 4 dominant styles in which all other styles
branch off from them:

1."Spam Striking" in which you send out strikes, normally 3-4 charges recommended, with little to no
bruising
2."Massing" in which you send out large groups quickly, moderate to no bruising.
3."Bruising" where you try to do the maximum amount of bruising on most of your strikes, the corresponding
numbers are as follows:
2 groups= 4 drop off
3 groups= 9 drop off
4 groups= 13 drop off
5 groups= 16 drop off
6 groups= 18 drop off
Past this is pointless to know.
4."Pure sprinkling" where you don't send any strikes and just constantly clearing your board. (Not recommended)

Now alone, none of these strategies are all that amazing, to be a top rumbler, you need to mix and match, live in
the moment so to speak, and combine the best of both worlds, so you don't become predictable, it takes time to find
out what works for you, but don't give up, no pain no gain.

Bludgeons are also very important, if you're good enough, every bludgeon becomes viable, but there is a general tier list,
and they are the most sensible bludgeons. These being (in no particular order):

1. Blackjack: Default bludgeon of most people, some swear by it, some are hipsters and refuse to use it, best used with
smaller 3 group strikes and occasional 4 group strikes
2. Hammer: An incredibly strong bludgeon, in my opinion, the strongest in the game, but also one of, if not the hardest
bludgeon to use, best used with larger groups, heavy bruising highly recommended. With this bludgeon as I have found
myself, you need to find out what works for you, and what it's capable of, because I can tell you now, hoping to send out
a max bruised 4 group every time will not happen
3. Chain: Also an amazing bludgeon, I feel it's on the opposite end of the spectrum to the hammer, whereas the hammer is
very hard to master and full offensive, this is very hard to master while being very defensive, also best if strikes are
heavily bruised due to weaker pattern, heavy sprinkling also recommended, but once again, find what it can do, and master
it, sticking to mostly 3 group strikes is recommended
4. Skull rings: The counter part to the blackjack, I always saw it as weaker, but a fair few higher rumblers love it and
make it work successfully, small strikes and occasional big strikes with a decent sprinkle pattern, if not used correctly
the pattern can get cleared quite effortlessly
5. Skeleton bone: Not always easy to come by, and a very interesting bludgeon, strong sprinkle pattern, and a confusing
strike pattern, it really can be a hit or miss with this bludgeon depending how you use it and how the pattern aligns
itself
6: Rope coils: The poor mans blackjack, slightly weaker than a blackjack, but still not a terrible bludgeon, recommended
if you can't afford a blackjack, hybriding it with strikes and sprinkles is the way to go

Tips:

1. Always keep the initial colour to trigger your combo in one shooter
2. Try to clear the middle instead of the sides if possible
3. Look for places further up the board to charge/break, free drop off from the board wins games
4. Don't let your opponent dictate how you play, if you think they are going to send a strike, don't slow down,
just go as fast as you can and play the game your way (can't stress this enough)
5. Work out a general play by play going into a match, it will change but it will give you a rough idea of what to
aim for
6. Find out what your bludgeon can do, what it excels at and what playstyle will be it's demise

Last side note: There are many different handy tactics that can be applied as seen on Boothook's extensive guide, some of
is outdated though. If you want to start up rumble, I do recommend playing before giving it a look through, just so you
can understand some things for when you do come to read it:
http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Boothook%27s_Rumbling_Guide

Rumble video on dealing with pure sprinklers, as well as many annotations with small tips/tricks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUmesFu5rYY
----------------------------------------
Demeter says, "Boo!"
Ye have received a trade request from Demeter.
Demeter traded: Starfish
Capnsilver traded: Nothing
Demeter tells ye, "And I never tell the reason for a gold starfish. ;) Have a good week."
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by hellguy333 at Jan 7, 2014 4:56:30 PM]
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Runescapien

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Re: Various Tips and Tricks for all your Puzzle needs! Reply to this Post
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Patching
Scoring based on:
1. Amount of the board used
2. Grommets multiply the board score.
3. Time taken to complete the board.
Strategy:
There are two types of patching you can do. Speed patching and board patching, and each have their success based on how well you do a specific type.
Speed patching revolves around completing the board in phenomenal speed, not focusing on pieces used or grommets as much as relying on spamming boards to achieve the correct indicator.
Board patching takes more time and focuses on getting close to a flawless and majority of grommets used. These large scores are only worth if you can do it in a considerable speed. (Without the first wind.)
While both rely on speed to be effective, it is up to you to see what you are best at.
1. Connect your spool to your targets first and then expand your combo accordingly.
Bugs:
One graphical glitch known usually created when you pause the game while holding a piece. Generally fixed by draging the glitched piece to the random whole in the board.


A load of information on patching bugs can be found here. Some no longer appear to happen, eg. the first league inc one

I'd just like to expand on your post - I slightly disagree with your statement to connect first and then expand - especially with grommets, i've seen some patchers do this, and say put a straight piece where they later move a T or a + to to get extra grommets attached, which wastes a lot of time. This should optimally done while completing the board, look and see if you have a load or little grommets - if you have loads, you'll want to have more open ends. If you only have a few you'll want to leave less open ends and "sew up" more - eg placing 2 Ts beside each other to emulate 2 straights, or 2 Ts and 2 corners, and so on

As for the different styles of patching, id like to point out a 3rd - the 'hybrid' style of patching, which is used by some - get all the grommets and clear, without worrying too much about board. At the top end, a board patcher will score higher than a speed patcher. To any aspiring ultimate patcher, i’d advise to practice full board patching to score the highest you can. Speed patching is generally reserved for tokening, as full board patching makes tokening very difficult.

As for videos, i'd reccommend my channel, oryoshia's.
Longshot, hoping that made sense.
----------------------------------------
Longshot of the Meridian ocean
I used to record patching
No, I don't play runescape
[Jan 5, 2014 10:13:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bailet

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Re: Various Tips and Tricks for all your Puzzle needs! Reply to this Post
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Patching
Scoring based on:
1. Amount of the board used
2. Grommets multiply the board score.
3. Time taken to complete the board.
Strategy:
There are two types of patching you can do. Speed patching and board patching, and each have their success based on how well you do a specific type.
Speed patching revolves around completing the board in phenomenal speed, not focusing on pieces used or grommets as much as relying on spamming boards to achieve the correct indicator.
Board patching takes more time and focuses on getting close to a flawless and majority of grommets used. These large scores are only worth if you can do it in a considerable speed. (Without the first wind.)
While both rely on speed to be effective, it is up to you to see what you are best at.
1. Connect your spool to your targets first and then expand your combo accordingly.
Bugs:
One graphical glitch known usually created when you pause the game while holding a piece. Generally fixed by draging the glitched piece to the random whole in the board.


A load of information on patching bugs can be found here. Some no longer appear to happen, eg. the first league inc one

I'd just like to expand on your post - I slightly disagree with your statement to connect first and then expand - especially with grommets, i've seen some patchers do this, and say put a straight piece where they later move a T or a + to to get extra grommets attached, which wastes a lot of time. This should optimally done while completing the board, look and see if you have a load or little grommets - if you have loads, you'll want to have more open ends. If you only have a few you'll want to leave less open ends and "sew up" more - eg placing 2 Ts beside each other to emulate 2 straights, or 2 Ts and 2 corners, and so on

As for the different styles of patching, id like to point out a 3rd - the 'hybrid' style of patching, which is used by some - get all the grommets and clear, without worrying too much about board. At the top end, a board patcher will score higher than a speed patcher. To any aspiring ultimate patcher, i?d advise to practice full board patching to score the highest you can. Speed patching is generally reserved for tokening, as full board patching makes tokening very difficult.

As for videos, i'd reccommend my channel, oryoshia's.
Longshot, hoping that made sense.



I have added in your third style and changed tips accordingly while adding the bug list. I had not patched in a very long time and I forgot about that style, so thank you very much!
I will be updating for the rest of the puzzles later on tonight. I wold like a check on bilging, and need assistance in the section of guns and distillery as they have bested me in every way possible. :)
----------------------------------------
Clotho tells ye, "did you hide the skellies this time?"
OM MESSAGE: Complaining the on-duty OM will only result in another flurry of eggs being sent out into the YPP world. Go #TeamPurple!
Dalnoth's Favorite Pirate
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LJAmethyst

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It would be nice if you transferred this stuff to the YPPedia as a set of strategy guide articles.
----------------------------------------
Retired as of August 2015.
2 Timothy 4:7
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patgangster

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Patching

A load of information on patching bugs can be found here. Some no longer appear to happen, eg. the first league inc one


the first league inc one wasn't patching-specific, that was actually happening on every puzzle. During that time I was watching sailors, carpenters, everyone getting first LP incs. Otherwise very good additions here, this "hybrid" method is how I usually patch when there are no tokens around.
----------------------------------------
TriplePat, Emerald.
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DementedDuck

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I'd be happy to assist with distilling, I've held #1 on every ocean and won familiars. Best to PM me here rather than try to catch me online.
----------------------------------------
Evilduck/Superduck.
Emerald, Cerulean, and that other one.
Now in Obsidian flavour.

I record puzzles.
[Jan 6, 2014 7:44:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bailet

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It would be nice if you transferred this stuff to the YPPedia as a set of strategy guide articles.


I have no knowledge of how to use the YPPedia, but if someone wants to take that on, feel free to use whatever resource here.

And Duck, I would love your distilling know-how, if you can post it here or inbox me.

By the way, I keep trying to catch you to assist me in weaving wonderfully, but we seem to be in different time zones, and you aren't in Illusion anymore!
----------------------------------------
Clotho tells ye, "did you hide the skellies this time?"
OM MESSAGE: Complaining the on-duty OM will only result in another flurry of eggs being sent out into the YPP world. Go #TeamPurple!
Dalnoth's Favorite Pirate
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DementedDuck

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I take it you're not talking to me about weaving because I have no idea how to do that puzzle. I just click, luck my way to narrow/GM ish, and never play it again.

I'll get some distilling tips typed up for you soonish. :3
----------------------------------------
Evilduck/Superduck.
Emerald, Cerulean, and that other one.
Now in Obsidian flavour.

I record puzzles.
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DementedDuck

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Warning: images.

Distilling
Scoring Focus:
1. Consecutive Crystal Clears (rows purely made up of white pieces).
2. That's kind of it.
Strategy:
Basically, the more CCs you get in a row, the higher you score. Spices will boost your score, but those are spawned randomly. The objective is to move all the white pieces to the left (or all the black/brown pieces to the right) until you run out of space.

Depending on your knowledge/experience of distilling so far, you may be feeling pretty bewildered after reading "left" up there. The thing a lot of people tend to skip over when reading the basics of distilling is that only the rows you send up contribute to your score*. The aim is not to send your CCs up quickly - it's to send up as many consecutive CCs as possible. For reference, the benchmark for incredible is around CC12-CC13. Depends on spices, the ocean, and how long it's been since I bothered to check. YMMV.

*okay, burning spices drops your score a little, but not enough that it's worth sending rows up early, so pretty much ignore spices entirely.
Tips:
  • If it's not a CC, don't send it up. A full row of browns will be sent up, so always make sure there's a black in there.
  • Dachimpy's distilling simulator is a godsend for those learning to distill. It's a little buggy, yes, but it allows you to play the puzzle with no time constraint. My biggest problem when learning to distilling was that I never had enough time to build up CCs properly, so I wasn't learning how to do it. You can be as slow as you need with the simulator.
  • A little subjective, but if you own a drawing tablet, try learning to distill using that instead of a mouse. I find my movements so much smoother with a tablet, and since efficiency and speed is key in distilling, that's really important.
  • Blacks move down through white, browns move up through white. Browns move down through blacks. Sounds complicated, and feels complicated to begin with. Being a good distiller means making these movements without thinking, so practice. Practice a lot.
  • Try to keep your rows even.

  • You can move a brown and a black from one side of the board to the other, through the whites. Shown here: 0:21 - 0:26
  • You can also use one brown to move multiple blacks up and across the board. Similarly, use one black to move multiple browns down and across the board. 2:41 - 2:48 (I actually used multiple blacks to move the browns just because I could, but the same effect can be achieved with only one black).
  • When moving blacks/browns to the right, always try to keep one or two browns at the bottom left and one or two blacks at the top left. That way, when you get awkward browns at the top and awkward blacks at the bottom, you have an easy way to move them over. 2:06 - 2:09
  • As you're moving blacks/browns to the right, try to keep at least a few browns at the bottom right and a few blacks at the top right. This is because it makes it easier to swap pieces out and keep your rows even, which is especially helpful toward the end of the mid stage, when you're pressed for time to fill rows in with blacks/browns before they get burnt.

  • When you reach the late game - the part where you've built up as many CCs as you could before running out of space and are now moving the new whites to the right to form your final rows - try to move all the browns down and all the blacks up. This will make it easier to get new white spawns quickly into place. I find this particularly useful when you get awkward spawns, because you've got plenty of time to sort that one pesky white out since all the others are so easy to move. 4:03 - 4:21


    Videos:
    All the links in this post are to my CC15 video. I have a CC12, CC13 and CC14 video on my youtube, too.
    Some other people I think are worth checking out are: Tzz, Searmin, Donsmythe, Skaterkidstu, and Geologist. There are plenty more great distilling videos on youtube.
    If you'd prefer a tutorial style, Oziman and SonnyZ have done good videos.
    ----------------------------------------
    Evilduck/Superduck.
    Emerald, Cerulean, and that other one.
    Now in Obsidian flavour.

    I record puzzles.
    ----------------------------------------
    [Edit 1 times, last edit by DementedDuck at Jan 7, 2014 6:14:55 AM]
  • [Jan 7, 2014 6:06:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Hurtboss4

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    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1346
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    Re: Various Tips and Tricks for all your Puzzle needs! Reply to this Post
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    Nice thread. Can't help much nowadays, but I can link to some of my previous work.
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    And, scene.
    *lights out*
    [Jan 7, 2014 4:02:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Squishat

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    Joined: Oct 8, 2006
    Posts: 1534
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    Re: Various Tips and Tricks for all your Puzzle needs! Reply to this Post
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    In answer to your OP, Tzz cannot update any post that is older than 60 days.

    I suggest you take note of the timeframe if you have any intention of finishing this.

    On a side note, apart from Tzz not having a section on patching, I have read it enough times to believe that his is fairly complete and illustrative otherwise.
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    Hellogoodbye says, "Squishat - Pro rock sinker."
    on Emerald

    Status: derping around.
    ===
    avatar by Cattrin
    [Jan 7, 2014 6:45:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    LJAmethyst

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    Joined: Jul 19, 2007
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    Re: Various Tips and Tricks for all your Puzzle needs! Reply to this Post
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    In answer to your OP, Tzz cannot update any post that is older than 60 days.

    I suggest you take note of the timeframe if you have any intention of finishing this.



    That would not be an issue if this were transferred over to YPPedia where it belongs.
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    Retired as of August 2015.
    2 Timothy 4:7
    [Jan 7, 2014 10:14:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
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