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Franklincain

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Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Since the article for the grandiose pirate hall takes too blasted long to upload, I'm proposing we split this article into its two facing halves -- i.e.: left-facing and right-facing. The "base" article would then have the respective floor plan sections removed, replaced with links to the two respective sub-pages.

Before proceeding, though, I wanted to give notice of my intent, and to solicit feedback.

Thanks,
Franklin
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Franklin W. Cain (Pirate FranklinCain on Meridian and other Oceans)
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[Sep 13, 2013 8:42:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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I see no problem with that. However, it leads me to wonder why we don't do similar things for Trinket and Trophy... perhaps they just don't split up as well?
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[Sep 13, 2013 9:16:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
Belthazar451

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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... We already split the pirate halls by type, now you want to split them by facing direction too? Why not just have one article for each room?
[Sep 13, 2013 3:43:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Franklincain

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Belthazar, I'm talking about JUST the grand hall.

Any way, after creating these two sub-pages, I believe I've identified the reason for the long delay in loading the parent page. The left-facing grand hall has the floor-plans coded, so it takes a very long time to load; while the right-facing grand hall does not have the floor-plans coded, so it loads far more quickly. I ask for doubters to please check this for themselves. ;-)

So, in this case, it appears that the cause is NOT the number of images in the article (both sub-pages having the same number of images), but rather the inclusion of additional text/code (the floor-plans).

So, getting back to my original suggestion -- is this worthy of splitting just the one page into the two sub-pages?

Thanks!
Franklin
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Franklin W. Cain (Pirate FranklinCain on Meridian and other Oceans)
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[Sep 16, 2013 9:15:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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For comparison, the Wikipedia guidelines on splitting articles go like this: first, the article's length is measured in terms of "readable prose". That criterion is right out the window here, because there is almost no readable prose in the article. Let's consider the article length in raw bytes of the current revision: 27,126. The Wikipedia guidelines say:


  • > 100k Almost certainly should be divided
  • > 60k Probably should be divided (although the scope of a topic can sometimes justify the added reading time)
  • > 50k May need to be divided (likelihood goes up with size)
  • < 40k Length alone does not justify division


So we are not even halfway to considering a split.

Besides, a split will speed up the right-facing article immensely, and have almost no benefit to the left-facing one. Is that really a win?
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Sep 16, 2013 12:14:13 PM]
[Sep 16, 2013 12:12:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Franklincain

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Besides, a split will speed up the right-facing article immensely, and have almost no benefit to the left-facing one.

Is that really a win?

Yes, it is -- for anyone looking at the right-facing grand hall. You said it yourself. ;-)

Franklin
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Franklin W. Cain (Pirate FranklinCain on Meridian and other Oceans)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Franklincain at Sep 16, 2013 4:38:05 PM]
[Sep 16, 2013 4:37:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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How often is someone going to load and reload the page? What portion of those times will it not be in one or more levels of someone's cache?

Is the grandiose pirate hall one of those pages that people check again and again? It had seven revisions in three years before you worked on it this week. It is not exactly a high traffic page, so why should we make it harder for people to find the information in the rare times that they will need it?

What happens when someone codes up the floorplans for the right-facing hall? Then it will be the same size as the other one.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Sep 16, 2013 4:46:53 PM]
[Sep 16, 2013 4:44:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Squishat

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Then wouldn't it be easier to simply conform the code of the slower side to the format of the faster side and then leave it as one page?

And by that I meant, the page should link to the floor plans instead of making them load on the page.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Squishat at Sep 16, 2013 7:10:09 PM]
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Belthazar451

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Yeah, those Grandiose floor plans have been causing us endless headaches. Some of them contain almost two thousand little image icons. For a while we had to suppress the display of the larger ones, because the page wouldn't load at all otherwise. I think they were the trigger for spitting the pirate halls into separate articles in the first place.

I have to admit I'm idly curious as to whether anyone actually uses the floor plans for anything.
[Sep 17, 2013 3:07:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Squishat

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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I rather find them useful, as there are some odd walls here and there that you think might fit this type of wall furniture or that, but upon further inspection, you realize they don't.
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[Sep 17, 2013 10:58:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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I rather find them useful, as there are some odd walls here and there that you think might fit this type of wall furniture or that, but upon further inspection, you realize they don't.


I use the floor plan (for the smaller buildings) for the same purpose. I just can't afford Grandiose yet (or probably ever). 640 dubs (~1.4M PoE) + 640K PoE = ~2M PoE......
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[Sep 17, 2013 11:06:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
Twittly

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Just throwing this out there, but rather than a bunch of small images, would it be better to just have 1 picture of it?

What I mean is like screenshot each floor plan and upload those as photos, rather than use many small images for 1 floorplan.
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[Sep 17, 2013 1:55:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Belthazar451

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Aye, I made that suggestion a fair while back too. Even did a mockup for it. I've forgotten what comments were made to that idea, though...

http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/File:Floorplan-Left-Grandiose_pirate_hall_East_Grounds.png
[Sep 17, 2013 2:04:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jsherriff

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Do not split it that is why it is Grand...
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[Sep 17, 2013 2:57:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Aye, I made that suggestion a fair while back too. Even did a mockup for it. I've forgotten what comments were made to that idea, though...

http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/File:Floorplan-Left-Grandiose_pirate_hall_East_Grounds.png


FYI, Belthazar, that link points to this thread. Copy/pasting the link does work, though.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by jlh0605 at Sep 17, 2013 3:08:43 PM]
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Twittly

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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There is a bug in the forums. That is why he posted the link rather than making it a hyperlink.
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[Sep 17, 2013 3:53:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Ah... I didn't know that. It appears to be working fine on my posts, but I guess I won't worry about it. Sorry, Belthazar.
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[Sep 17, 2013 3:56:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
Belthazar451

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Twittly wrote: 
There is a bug in the forums. That is why he posted the link rather than making it a hyperlink.

Maybe I should start explicitly stating that when I post File namespace links. =P
[Sep 17, 2013 4:03:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Twittly

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Twittly wrote: 
There is a bug in the forums. That is why he posted the link rather than making it a hyperlink.

Maybe I should start explicitly stating that when I post File namespace links. =P

I was thinking that I should make it my signature. :)
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[Sep 17, 2013 4:08:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Twittly wrote: 
There is a bug in the forums. That is why he posted the link rather than making it a hyperlink.

Maybe I should start explicitly stating that when I post File namespace links. =P

Maybe I should pay more attention.
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[Sep 17, 2013 4:23:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
Franklincain

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Belthazar wrote: 
Yeah, those Grandiose floor plans have been causing us endless headaches. Some of them contain almost two thousand little image icons. For a while we had to suppress the display of the larger ones, because the page wouldn't load at all otherwise. I think they were the trigger for spitting the pirate halls into separate articles in the first place.

How about a compromise? The "parent" article (grand hall) can be stripped of the floor-plan code; and the two "child" articles (left- and right-facing) would contain the floor-plan code. That way, the parent article loads much more quickly, and only those readers wanting the floor-plan data would have to deal with the extra load time.

Does this sound more agreeable?

Thanks!
Franklin
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[Sep 18, 2013 6:23:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Franklincain

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Belthazar wrote: 
Yeah, those Grandiose floor plans have been causing us endless headaches. Some of them contain almost two thousand little image icons. For a while we had to suppress the display of the larger ones, because the page wouldn't load at all otherwise. I think they were the trigger for spitting the pirate halls into separate articles in the first place.
(myself) wrote: 
How about a compromise? The "parent" article (grand hall) can be stripped of the floor-plan code; and the two "child" articles (left- and right-facing) would contain the floor-plan code. That way, the parent article loads much more quickly, and only those readers wanting the floor-plan data would have to deal with the extra load time.

Does this sound more agreeable?

Poke... ;-)

Thanks,
Franklin
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Franklin W. Cain (Pirate FranklinCain on Meridian and other Oceans)
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[Oct 14, 2013 2:39:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Franklincain

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Re: Grand Hall -- To Split, or Not to Split? Reply to this Post
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Having heard no objections, I've removed the floor-plan code from the "parent" article, leaving it in the "child" article...
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[Oct 29, 2013 1:38:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Twittly

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[Oct 29, 2013 2:13:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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