• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 47
Posts: 47   Pages: 2   [ First Page | Previous Page | 1 2 | Last Page]
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 6415 times and has 46 replies Next Thread
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6313
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
But, someone running a CI isn't going to care if they have a jobber with ultimate in sails and sublime/able in rigging, carpentry, patching, and bilge if that jobber can sail for them.

For pillages/cit runs/CI, being Ult in SF and Able in sails is vastly better than being Ult in sails and Able in SF. The latter might as well be all Ables.

 
But if anything it is gradually becoming easier to obtain that renowned+ in a duty puzzle and get yourself a spot on a more exclusive run because there are more duty puzzles than there once were.

First, as above, the new duty puzzles mean nothing for pillages/CI/cit runs. Second, as the population declines, it is the the Able/Proficient players that are leaving, so the curve for just about every puzzle is getting harder.

 
On an unrelated note, since when did elite turn into renowned+? When I was green I was told I needed to get to Grand-master to get a spot on an elite pillage.

Agreed, but it doesn't matter. What matters is whether whether the (perceived) funnest parts of the game are off limits to the majority of players.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 6, 2013 3:35:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 18, 2007
Posts: 5702
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
On an unrelated note, since when did elite turn into renowned+? When I was green I was told I needed to get to Grand-master to get a spot on an elite pillage.

It's whatever the captain says. I've seen "elite but taking everyone".
----------------------------------------
Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Aug 6, 2013 3:42:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Notsizzly

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 29, 2010
Posts: 2937
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

My thoughts are spread all over and pretty random, and that other thread does go hand in hand with this one so...

My true greenie days, I knew nothing about how to score well on puzzles and had the below mediocre stats. I did get jobbed on voyages and had fun. I definitely had absolutely no need to even think about getting better at the puzzle just to raise my standing - and after a significant amount of time, when I started to pay attention to it, it wasn't because of the need to be jobbed to 'elite' runs of whatever it was. It was purely because of the social pressure of what I could describe as 'you are nothing if you can't be an ultimate'. That means, I gave in to that which was very silly - I still very firmly believe in that your standings mean nothing when I think about what kind of a pirate or a person you are. All standings can be fake, so to say. For the sake of the new players, I am not going to say how and why, I'm pretty sure everyone knows.

Now, these days. It's more than often that I end up with those who can puzzle to the gm+ level that just refuse to do duty puzzling on those cit runs - they just want to perm defend. Or, refuse to take any other station than that one single they chose. Other examples, I'm pretty sure everyone knows what I'm talking about. HOWEVER. I am well aware and I endorse that this game as well as any other, has areas where you need...higher standards. So please don't get me wrong with my babbling and whining. It's just that I believe that you can manage to do well with less 'elite' players if you have your own skills set right, especially when it comes to managing your crew aboard.

I find this discussion interesting, even though it might actually lead into anything. I have lately found some of the puzzles getting harder to maintain excellent/incredible level, for example carpentry seems to require more speed than it did before. It is entirely possible I'm just rusty (though it's not like I've had very long pauses with the puzzles) but it would be interesting to hear if anyone else has experienced this.

...And I think I didn't bring anything useful to the discussion. Oh well.
----------------------------------------
~ Sizzly of Emerald ~
Avatar by Aerecura <3
[Aug 6, 2013 4:08:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chylamydia

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 32
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

For what it's worth, some comments from a small ship navver.

A lot of elitism from the sloop pillage-running point of view comes from the absolutely stupidly high level of difficulty and luck you need to run a inclusive pillage successfully. Especially if you judge success by the in-game reward for pillaging, PoE.

The spawning system does not seem to be designed for a sloop with 2-3 good players (optimally me, my sailor, and my gunner), and the rest with mediocre stats. About half the time, the series of battles I tended to get was 2 to 4 too-easy battles with payout accordingly at 200 to 400 per jobber pre-divvy, then an un-winnable battle. Not true chainsaw bots, that a ship of leg+ sfers would not be able to beat, but just a boat where your jobbers even fraying at their best (at m-0) can't beat.

The other frustrating bit (in my opinion/experience) is that the bot-bnav acts differently as you ramp up. With an all-elite pillage, the bot-bnav generally does similar things but with a mixed-ship the episodes of "O.o did the spawn actually do that?!" start increasing exponentially. And the less predictable the bnav is, the harder it is to max with any sort of consistency.

Oh, it's possible to do well with inclusive pillages, it is just harder, with less financial reward. And face it, with inflation the way it is - dubs prices creeping up, but pillaging payouts remaining the same - the "financial reward" part of it is more important than it was in the past.

---
However, to be fair, there are a number of pillage runners on Emerald that run inclusive pillages that I can job on and know I'm in for a good time. These tend to not be profit motivated (compared to the majority of screened runs) - everyone on board *knows* that they probably won't make tons of poe, but the company is fantastic.

And for those good players that nonetheless want the game to be more inclusive? Even if you aren't running voyages, consider reverse-screening - jobbing for those with below-master stats on their boat. You're guaranteed to be useful especially if you provide moves or gun at a decent speed. For all you know you might be the cause of the new navigator getting enough moves per turn for the first time.
---

tl; dr
You can be profitable or you can be inclusive, but it is rather hard to be both.
----------------------------------------
Tinnitus on Emerald
----------------------------------------
[Edit 4 times, last edit by Chylamydia at Aug 7, 2013 6:17:26 AM]
[Aug 7, 2013 5:42:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Posts: 5008
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Sure, but the current game design means that about 50% of all players need to be in that category, which is unreasonably large.

... and several similar comments.

No. 50% of pirates with an active standing in that puzzle will be Able or Proficient in that puzzle. Now in the case of CI you might claim that screening is for Ren+ SF and only SF, in which case the 15% in one puzzle is genuinely 15% of players (to the approximation that player = actively puzzling pirate). But if it's a screen for Ren+ duty, it could be as much as 75% of players who have Ren in one of them (15% for 5 stations); if station abilities were independent it would be 56% of players. Station ability isn't completely uncorrelated across stations but I'd estimate that a Ren+ duty screen, even if rigorously applied, would still admit 40% of people, not 15%.
----------------------------------------
Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra
Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite)
Phantasm/Reign of Chaos (Viridian)
[Aug 7, 2013 10:22:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6313
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
Sure, but the current game design means that about 50% of all players need to be in that category, which is unreasonably large.

... and several similar comments.

No. 50% of pirates with an active standing in that puzzle will be Able or Proficient in that puzzle. Now in the case of CI you might claim that screening is for Ren+ SF and only SF, in which case the 15% in one puzzle is genuinely 15% of players (to the approximation that player = actively puzzling pirate).

You are taking my quote out of context. I am well aware of the difference between looking at only one stat and looking at any of many stats and I explicitly mentioned those restrictions. That quote was about one stat and Evilduck's claim that everyone can get "good" at any particular puzzle. In another post, I even addressed the "but there are many puzzles" issue by pointing out that there are certain key puzzles, just like you point out SF only screening.

That said, way back in 2009 I went and collected a bunch of data about pirates that were actually on ships on Viridian. I collected data on 396 pirates and the following is a break down of the number of "piracy skills" that each had that was ren+
    169 0
84 1
43 2
32 3
16 4
10 5
14 6
9 7
7 8
6 9
6 10

That is, 169 pirates had *no* piracy skills Renowned or better, while 6 had all 10. As this was back in 2009, patching was not included.

I'm too lazy to go and collect new data, or additional data, or even calculate the percentages.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 7, 2013 11:54:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
elbeejay

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 907
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
But, someone running a CI isn't going to care if they have a jobber with ultimate in sails and sublime/able in rigging, carpentry, patching, and bilge if that jobber can sail for them.

For pillages/cit runs/CI, being Ult in SF and Able in sails is vastly better than being Ult in sails and Able in SF. The latter might as well be all Ables.


Sure, your point is well taken. But there's no arguing the fact that someone with ultimate sails and able in every other piracy puzzle is more likely to be jobbed on one of these more exclusive trips than someone who is a jack of all trades so to speak and has say distinguished or respected in every piracy puzzle.

 
 
But if anything it is gradually becoming easier to obtain that renowned+ in a duty puzzle and get yourself a spot on a more exclusive run because there are more duty puzzles than there once were.

First, as above, the new duty puzzles mean nothing for pillages/CI/cit runs. Second, as the population declines, it is the the Able/Proficient players that are leaving, so the curve for just about every puzzle is getting harder.


Really the point I was trying to make with the addition of duty puzzles, is that there are two new puzzles in which they can attempt to push into the top 15% at. Instead of only having three basic duty puzzles to try their hand at to break into the skilled minority, now there are two more. Wouldn't that create two more renowned+ pools from which those selective navvers could job from?

So I'd argue that while the new duty puzzles may not change the game from a navving or ship management point of view, they do enable more jobbers to achieve a puzzle standing that meets whatever arbitrary requirement that navver is setting.
----------------------------------------
-Elbee on Hunter, Sage, Viridian, and Malachite
[Aug 7, 2013 2:02:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6313
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Really the point I was trying to make with the addition of duty puzzles, is that there are two new puzzles in which they can attempt to push into the top 15% at. Instead of only having three basic duty puzzles to try their hand at to break into the skilled minority, now there are two more. Wouldn't that create two more renowned+ pools from which those selective navvers could job from?

That depends. If every pirate that played the Sailing puzzle in the last 10 days also played Rigging, then you would be right, there would be two pools of renowned+ players, each the size of the old Sailing-only pool. However, I strongly suspect that people who are bad at Sailing and good at Rigging almost always play Rigging (and vice versa). Since good riggers Rig (and vice versa), the scoring curves will be harder for both puzzles.

Let's say that there 1000 people who Sail. Since the top 1% of all Sailors can be Ultimate, then there will be 10 Ults. (Likewise, 40 Leg Sailors, etc.) Now if Rigging is introduced and half the people decide that they only want to Rig, then there will be 500 Sailors and 500 Riggers, so there will be 5 Ults in each, for a total of 10 Ults. So, there would be zero change.

Now, I suspect that there is a fair amount of people who do both puzzles, so there will be some increase, but no where near twice.

For the actual performance on the ship, however, there will likely be almost no increase. Duty indicators are relative to how the other pirates are doing within about the last 10 minutes. (This has been determined by the old-style puzzle bake-offs the OMs used to run.) Very few players will play both puzzles at almost the same time, so we are back the no-net increase case.

This is all actually good since it means that OOO can keep introducing alternate puzzles without worrying about messing up the game.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 7, 2013 5:38:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DementedDuck

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 3153
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I feel like you're ignoring the scenario in which someone is awful at sailing and ren+ at rigging. That's the point they're trying to make. You only have to be good at one duty puzzle on a CI, and having five options is better than having two.

I know you understand that, but you seem to want to make a lot of irrelevant points.
----------------------------------------
Evilduck/Superduck.
Emerald, Cerulean, and that other one.
Now in Obsidian flavour.

I record puzzles.
[Aug 7, 2013 5:51:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6313
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
I feel like you're ignoring the scenario in which someone is awful at sailing and ren+ at rigging. That's the point they're trying to make. You only have to be good at one duty puzzle on a CI, and having five options is better than having two.

I know you understand that, but you seem to want to make a lot of irrelevant points.

My point was that the number of Ren+ Riggers plus Ren+ Sailors isn't going to be a whole lot larger than if there was just one puzzle. Adding alternate puzzles doesn't open up things much to more people.

Yes, there are people who are going to awful in Sailing and Ren+ at Rigging, but that is an irrelevant point
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Aug 7, 2013 6:25:10 PM]
[Aug 7, 2013 6:23:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DementedDuck

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 3153
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

What? No it isn't. You don't know that the number of people awful at sailing and ren+ at rigging is small. You don't know that at all. It's certainly not going to double the pool, but it's going to increase it for sure.
----------------------------------------
Evilduck/Superduck.
Emerald, Cerulean, and that other one.
Now in Obsidian flavour.

I record puzzles.
[Aug 8, 2013 9:24:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

Member's Avatar


Joined: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 2361
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Let's say that there 1000 people who Sail. Since the top 1% of all Sailors can be Ultimate, then there will be 10 Ults. (Likewise, 40 Leg Sailors, etc.) Now if Rigging is introduced and half the people decide that they only want to Rig, then there will be 500 Sailors and 500 Riggers, so there will be 5 Ults in each, for a total of 10 Ults. So, there would be zero change.

Now, I suspect that there is a fair amount of people who do both puzzles, so there will be some increase, but no where near twice.


Isn't it great that we can verify or debunk this claim with a few clicks? As of the writing of this post, on Emerald, bilging has 44 Ults, sailing has 42, and rigging has 37. Historically, bilging has almost always been the most popular of the basic duty puzzles (actually, I think it's almost always been THE most popular puzzle), even before the introduction of rigging and patching, so it's safe to use as an upper bound on how popular sailing would be in the absence of rigging. These numbers strongly suggest that the pool has been close to doubled in size (though yes, pirates can "double-dip" now). Similarly, carpentry and patching have 37 and 35 Ults respectively.
----------------------------------------
Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
Puppetar by Tilinka
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by tanonev at Aug 19, 2013 9:19:22 PM]
[Aug 19, 2013 9:16:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6313
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
Let's say that there 1000 people who Sail. Since the top 1% of all Sailors can be Ultimate, then there will be 10 Ults. (Likewise, 40 Leg Sailors, etc.) Now if Rigging is introduced and half the people decide that they only want to Rig, then there will be 500 Sailors and 500 Riggers, so there will be 5 Ults in each, for a total of 10 Ults. So, there would be zero change.

Now, I suspect that there is a fair amount of people who do both puzzles, so there will be some increase, but no where near twice.


Isn't it great that we can verify or debunk this claim with a few clicks? As of the writing of this post, on Emerald, bilging has 44 Ults, sailing has 42, and rigging has 37.

Funny, back when this thread was active, I did the very same thing. The numbers are different than two weeks ago when I posted that, they were much less even then, especially on cerulean. But, I didn't think one data point was useful.

 
Historically, bilging has almost always been the most popular of the basic duty puzzles (actually, I think it's almost always been THE most popular puzzle), even before the introduction of rigging and patching, so it's safe to use as an upper bound on how popular sailing would be in the absence of rigging.

I went looking for old data (on glowie, the forums, etc.), and couldn't find any. The number of stations on ships implies that there should be significantly more sails/rigging than bilge. Yes, bilge stations filled first, but that doesn't mean that sails didn't eventually get more stations. OOO describes bilge as "good for beginners" and puts bilge on top of the missions, so it may be over-represented by 5-minute greenies. So, I don't think the bilge numbers are a safe comparison.

Basically, i couldn't find enough useful data to verify or debunk my claim, so I didn't post anything.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 20, 2013 3:38:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

Member's Avatar


Joined: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 2361
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Yes, bilge stations filled first, but that doesn't mean that sails didn't eventually get more stations. OOO describes bilge as "good for beginners" and puts bilge on top of the missions, so it may be over-represented by 5-minute greenies. So, I don't think the bilge numbers are a safe comparison.


That's...actually completely irrelevant to the claim I made. Remember that we were trying to see how the introduction of Rigging affected the popularity of Sailing, and what we want to do is compare the number of current Sailing + Rigging ults to an estimate of what the number of Sailing ults would be in the absence of Rigging. This next part is just out of recollection, but the number of Bilging ults exceeded the number of Sailing ults at least 90% of the time I checked before the introduction of Rigging, and the number of Sailing ults has NEVER to my knowledge exceeded the number of Bilging ults by more than 10% or so. Sadly, this is no longer verifiable, but I'm sure you've noticed the same pattern when you checked. If you accept that these observations are not an anomaly, then the current number of Bilging ults is a slight overestimate of the number of Sailing ults that would currently exist in the absence of Rigging. Notice that the reason for the number of Bilging ults is irrelevant to this argument.
----------------------------------------
Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
Puppetar by Tilinka
[Aug 21, 2013 2:12:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6313
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Remember that we were trying to see how the introduction of Rigging affected the popularity of Sailing, and what we want to do is compare the number of current Sailing + Rigging ults to an estimate of what the number of Sailing ults would be in the absence of Rigging. This next part is just out of recollection, but the number of Bilging ults exceeded the number of Sailing ults at least {...}

Rigging was introduced, what, 4 or 5 years ago? My memory isn't that good and things have changed since then, be it bilge bot usage, cit runs, new ships with different ratios of sails vs bilge stations, declining populations, etc. I know you are enough of a data junky that I hoped you knew of data that I didn't.

I suspect your recollection of what the ult lists were like years ago is better than mine, but the number of bilge ults today isn't obvious to me to be a good proxy for what sails ults would be without rigging today.

Anyway, I stopped posting to this thread because I really didn't think the claim of "It's certainly not going to double the pool, but it's going to increase it for sure." is that much different from "so there will be some increase, but no where near twice." to be worth arguing about.

Back to what the original (and important) questions were, here are some simple percentages of the standing data i posted earlier:

If standings in different puzzles were completely independent of each other (no correlation), the chance that a pirate would have zero standings of ren+ in all 10 piracy skills would be 0.85^10 or about 20%. The actual data shows 169/396 or about 43%. People were (when the data was collected) over twice as likely to not be able to get ren+ in any puzzle than expected.

On the other end, if puzzle standings were independent, the chance of getting ren+ in all 10 piracy skills would be 0.15^10 or about 0.00000058% (one in 173 million). The data shows 6/396 or 1.5%.

So, the important question to be answered was: does adding alternate puzzles help people get past the screening? Due to the correlation between puzzle skills, the answer is probably not a whole lot.

(The other important question was: is it possible for everyone to get good enough in a puzzle to pass the screening if they just tried? The answer is clearly "no", especially in puzzles like distilling and SF.)
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 21, 2013 6:13:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

Member's Avatar


Joined: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 2361
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Hmm...do you happen to know who maintains http://www.glowie.com/~onyx/ult_info/ and whether they would be willing to share their raw data? Judging from the queries they support, I think they have the data we need to check our claims if I could get read access to their database...
----------------------------------------
Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
Puppetar by Tilinka
[Aug 21, 2013 12:52:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
Roleni

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 4171
Status: Offline
Re: Alienating your Community Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

A few comments:


1)
Someone mentioned game design. I think, quite frankly, that this IS a game design issue - not a community one. A well-designed game is going to have options that attract exclusive "elite" players as well as newbies - along with folks that are in-between, or trying to improve and move from new/green to experienced/skilled. The game shouldn't force people to play with others that they're not interested in playing with, but it should also offer reasonable rewards for things like greenie/casual pillages/runs.

(Do note that I think some of these options DO exist - Vikings, Haunted Seas, blockades all reward use of a wide range of jobber quality.)


2)
Algol, I have to pick at your point about navvers that want clean ships and max moves: places like Atlantis, flotillas and BK hunts (and even to a certain extent CI) have too high of a learning curve to handle performance below a certain threshold. A good run might require being able to handle half-plus damage; that's simply not going to work out if you don't have the puzzlers, though having some leeway on the minimums (say, respected+) in combination with a legendary/ultimate on each station might do about the same trick as the mentioned renowned+ requirements.


3)
 
Instead of playing less, have you considered getting better at the things you're not good at? People screen because when jobbers perform better, the run is more successful. That's especially important in sinking environments when a navver is putting his ship and stock at risk, as well as his reputation and everyone's time.


This is excellent advice, and while one that people have a hard time listening to, a big part of the problem: it's necessary not only to put time into playing this game, but to put effort into getting better - something that's not necessarily the case in a lot of MMOs.

 
Any monkey can learn to be ultimate in any puzzle...


However...and I know this has already been touched on already, but...this is just incorrect. Well, that's putting it mildly: you're completely and utterly wrong.

Aside from the mathematical problem of "anybody" being the same thing as "the top 1%", some people aren't very good at puzzles or games, even if they enjoy them. You could make a bit more of a case for your renowned+ statement, but you'd still be (very) wrong. Go play games at a local gaming store and you will find incredibly enthusiastic folks who are impressively awful at the games they play. They still have fun, but some people really are, well, bad at games.

Still, I want to address your original point: see, very very few people are good at all puzzles, even though they're really all some combination of the same kind of mathematical/creative/reaction skills. If you look at the ultimate lists, you'll find that maintaining only 3 ultimates is good enough to put you in the current top 10 for active pirates, and around 11 total is good enough for the top 15 all time. Less than 10 pirates total have achieved 22/22 ultimates, and NONE have managed to have them all active since the oceans merged.


Now, I do think it's worth pointing out that my opinion as to the problems with this game are related to a *lack* of proper rewards for high-end performance and "endgame" play, but that's really another (set of already done) thread(s).
----------------------------------------
Thalatta & others

Hera tells ye, "You got me so flustered by the spanking, I booched my chat response!"
Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!"
[Aug 21, 2013 9:34:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Posts: 47   Pages: 2   [ First Page | Previous Page | 1 2 | Last Page]
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2016 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates