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Lilzepp

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CI "Training" Reply to this Post
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I'm just curious as to the communities thoughts on this idea I had.
My thought is that when people are looking to CI the captain or Naver of that trip is always looking for people with FF(Frentic Forager) and then the seals of certain stations as well as having that skill reletively high. However for people that know what a CI is, but have not been on one, usually can't get onto it then. So my thought is that every so often(one-three times a week, or certain days each week) me and my friend/crew(still new) would host a CI trip where we would take out people interested to learn how to properly CI and as well teach them the ropes of what has to be done to make one as successful as possible. I mean I don't plan on taking out a super expensive ship and a brand new bunch of players, more so I would be taking out educated players who have been on for awhile and actually know what everything is and have a general idea of what has to be done, they wouldn't have to be super experienced, but they at the same time can't be unexperienced. It would overall be a chance for some people to start getting their CI trophies that most people wouldn't even give them the time of day for. I would basically be taking them out there if they are rather confident that they themselves can aquire the FF trophy or not and as well learn at the same time how to fight and what not to do/who not to team up on during certain fights later on and as well teach them to protect the Thralls when they need it and when to stall.

So if you have any questions or thoughts about it please let me know, and if this is in the wrong thread please let me know that as well. Never really used the forums much and I thought this would be the best place to put something of this sorts.

P.S. It wouldn't cost anything unless you wanted to learn how to navigate. However donations would be greatly appreciated before departure just as a Thanks for helping me out sort of ordeal. But by no means will it require you to pay for it. And at the same time I would be expending my own ships for this.

Thanks for any and all feedback in advance,
Zeppe =)
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Zeppe of Emerald Ocean
Captain of the crew "Cash Money Monsters"
[Jun 4, 2013 12:10:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
b0nde00

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Re: CI "Training" Reply to this Post
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Brilliant. +1 for you sir.
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Deadcode - Emerald

Eating ears since 1969
[Jun 4, 2013 1:27:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: CI "Training" Reply to this Post
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My thought is that when people are looking to CI the captain or Naver of that trip is always looking for people with FF(Frentic Forager) and then the seals of certain stations as well as having that skill reletively high. However for people that know what a CI is, but have not been on one, usually can't get onto it then. So my thought is that every so often(one-three times a week, or certain days each week) me and my friend/crew(still new) would host a CI trip where we would take out people interested to learn how to properly CI and as well teach them the ropes of what has to be done to make one as successful as possible.

I know this is going to sound counter-intuitive, but the best place to learn the basics for CI is in non-CI arenas. Look, briefly, at the skills you're working towards:
TOKENING: The problem with learning tokening in CI is that each station usually has two people on it. If you get unlucky, and both people on any one station are having trouble, the process becomes long, drawn out, and a real pain for the rest of the crew, especially if you have multiple overrun frays as a result. You can learn tokening just fine in blockades, Atlantis, and HS, simply by trying to get one specific token-- ideally, the the token that the captain has indicated he wants most.
FORAGING: You get limited amount of foraging time on a CI. A ship taking new players is going to have trouble getting past the first Vargas fight, and may well not even make it that far. A better way to practice foraging is doing regular foraging, but focusing on speed rather than efficiency. You get fewer 3x2 chests in regular foraging, but you can still pick up the basics of speed and not getting stuck.
FIGHTING: There are only a few minor differences between CI fighting and what you have anywhere else-- really, the biggest differences are "protect thralls", "hit the EOs and Vargas first", and "how does this captain want to deal with homunculi?", none of which are particularly hard to learn.

 
I mean I don't plan on taking out a super expensive ship and a brand new bunch of players

The expensive ship isn't an issue, really, not since OOO introduced the ship-in-a-bottle thing.

 
It would overall be a chance for some people to start getting their CI trophies that most people wouldn't even give them the time of day for.

I wish you the best of luck. I'm not trying to stop you with my comments, just pointing out some things a veteran CI jobber and navver has found out over the years.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by xelto at Jun 4, 2013 5:05:26 AM]
[Jun 4, 2013 5:04:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lilzepp

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Re: CI "Training" Reply to this Post
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Brilliant. +1 for you sir.


Haha thanks =D
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Zeppe of Emerald Ocean
Captain of the crew "Cash Money Monsters"
[Jun 4, 2013 7:27:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lilzepp

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@xelto>
I completely understand where your coming from with you are capable of learning those things outside of CI's but however those do not actually give you the idea of CI's or the atmosphere that a CI gives. By no means am I saying there are better ways to go about it, this was just an idea I had that I thought could go over well with players that haven't done a CI before.
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Zeppe of Emerald Ocean
Captain of the crew "Cash Money Monsters"
[Jun 4, 2013 7:57:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lilzepp

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Anyone else have any advice or thoughts on this idea? Trying to get as much feedback as I can :) thanks again:)
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Zeppe of Emerald Ocean
Captain of the crew "Cash Money Monsters"
[Jun 7, 2013 1:59:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Anyone else have any advice or thoughts on this idea? Trying to get as much feedback as I can :) thanks again:)

All right, I looked over your pirate page. You've obviously got experience as a jobber in CI, possibly a navigator (hard to tell that from a pirate page, and I've never seen you on the NB.) Small crew and hearty list, but several skilled players in them. And unless you lose regularly at poker or some other wagering game, you can probably afford to lose a few ships, if things go bad. Therefore:

Try it.

Figure out what base requirements you think will actually be needed, and job for that level. Put something in the chat bubble on the NB indicating that you're taking new players, so that experienced players don't jump ship when they see who's coming on and/or mute you if they have a bad experience. (Not only that, but there are a few very experienced, very skilled players who will specifically join trips that take inexperienced players.) Try to get your skilled hearties and crewbies to join you.

If you intend to thrall, either make sure you have someone skilled at token bilging, or use a ship that is fairly well balanced between stations (sloop, longship, merchant brig, or junk) so that you don't end up with severe shortage of bilge tokens. Keep in mind that larger ships get eaten up by the fog faster, which is one reason merchant brigs seem to be a popular mid-sized ship-- lots of carp stations).

If thralling, put a limit on how long you're going to thrall-- say, two segments tops-- otherwise, your jobbers will start getting restless.

After the run, whether successful or not, analyze what went well, and what went bad, and if there's anything you might want to change next time. I suspect that if you thrall, but don't require seals of station, that you'll change your mind after a few runs. But what the hell, give it a shot first.

And finally, if you've never navigated CI before, expect to lose a ship or four in the learning process. If you don't lose any ships-- great! If you do, that's life, you planned for it. I lost two before I got reasonably confident in my abilities, lost a few more over the next year, and still lose the very occasional ship to bad luck.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Jun 7, 2013 5:17:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lilzepp

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Re: CI "Training" Reply to this Post
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Anyone else have any advice or thoughts on this idea? Trying to get as much feedback as I can :) thanks again:)

All right, I looked over your pirate page. You've obviously got experience as a jobber in CI, possibly a navigator (hard to tell that from a pirate page, and I've never seen you on the NB.) Small crew and hearty list, but several skilled players in them. And unless you lose regularly at poker or some other wagering game, you can probably afford to lose a few ships, if things go bad. Therefore:

Try it.

Figure out what base requirements you think will actually be needed, and job for that level. Put something in the chat bubble on the NB indicating that you're taking new players, so that experienced players don't jump ship when they see who's coming on and/or mute you if they have a bad experience. (Not only that, but there are a few very experienced, very skilled players who will specifically join trips that take inexperienced players.) Try to get your skilled hearties and crewbies to join you.

If you intend to thrall, either make sure you have someone skilled at token bilging, or use a ship that is fairly well balanced between stations (sloop, longship, merchant brig, or junk) so that you don't end up with severe shortage of bilge tokens. Keep in mind that larger ships get eaten up by the fog faster, which is one reason merchant brigs seem to be a popular mid-sized ship-- lots of carp stations).

If thralling, put a limit on how long you're going to thrall-- say, two segments tops-- otherwise, your jobbers will start getting restless.

After the run, whether successful or not, analyze what went well, and what went bad, and if there's anything you might want to change next time. I suspect that if you thrall, but don't require seals of station, that you'll change your mind after a few runs. But what the hell, give it a shot first.

And finally, if you've never navigated CI before, expect to lose a ship or four in the learning process. If you don't lose any ships-- great! If you do, that's life, you planned for it. I lost two before I got reasonably confident in my abilities, lost a few more over the next year, and still lose the very occasional ship to bad luck.


Thanks for the feedback =) I have been on my fair share of CI runs as well as navigated a fair amount last year when I played, and I was by no means going to go into it thinking I wasn't going to lose a ship or 2 but I was confident in my ability that I could keep it alive. I played for almost all of last year and did about 4-5 months of naving CI and only lost 1 or 2 ships astonshingly enough. Thanks for the ideas though =) Definetly will help when I figure out how I'm going to do everything I need for it.
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Zeppe of Emerald Ocean
Captain of the crew "Cash Money Monsters"
[Jun 7, 2013 12:36:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lovetosmash

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Not a bad idea..

If you don't try it, Crickket and I will (and if you try it, we will anyways).

Salvatrucha says, "We're going to teach greenies to CI."
Crickket says, "well that will be interesting"

Yeah, she's in.
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Avatar by Bambeh, with special thanks to Sizzly
Attempting to retire, it's not going well as you can tell.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Lovetosmash at Jun 8, 2013 9:56:46 AM]
[Jun 8, 2013 6:46:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyndrei



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As someone who has played for years, and have only gotten one or two chances to go on a CI, I'd really love a chance to learn more. Please let me know if you guys decide to try this!!
[Jun 11, 2013 4:53:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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As someone who has played for years, and have only gotten one or two chances to go on a CI, I'd really love a chance to learn more. Please let me know if you guys decide to try this!!

Enough people have shown an interest in something like this that I'm going to do it.

Time: Friday the 14th, 3:30 PM Pirate/Pacific time (6:30 Eastern). Advance ticket holders can get on up to 10 minutes in advance-- send me an in-game tell any time between 3:20 and 3:30 pirate time.
Requirements: renowned or higher on station. Exceptions made only for people I've sailed with often enough to know them by name.
Thralling? Not intentionally, but if we get a gold token or two before we hit the island, I'll stop and pick up boarders
Time on Island? Through the first Vargas fight, unless we lose earlier, or we somehow pick up a ship full of thralls
Multiple entries? Probably two, though that may change in either direction
Ship type? Dhow (5 sails, 3 carp, 2 bilge, 1 guns)

Advance tickets available at? Send me a PM, along with which stations you are willing to do and your pirate name. Make sure you're renowned or higher on that station, and please remember that the rankings jiggle up and down each day-- be high enough on the list that you'll be there there when I look. If I get more advance requests than I have spots for, I'll prioritize based on a combination of how early your request got to me, whether you're on my hearty list, and how balanced the skill range of everyone is (I want to make sure I have some CI novices, but a few experienced players would help, too.)
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Jun 12, 2013 2:26:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Enough people have shown an interest in something like this that I'm going to do it.

All right, here's feedback about how it went and what I learned.

As it turned out, I didn't get all that many novice CI runners-- it probably broke down to a couple people who rarely got into a CI, another couple people who may not get jobbed regularly but can get offers if they're patient, another 4-6 who might not get invited onto truly elite CI runs but can get onto most of them, and the rest were veterans.

Since I got a higher calibre jobber than I was expecting, we did thrall. Took us a couple segments, we ended with 11 out of 12 thralls by the time we hit the island. Slower than I'm used to, but in par with what it was like when I was starting out and not getting elite jobbers. I pushed our luck further than logic said I should have and got booted on SF#3. About 20 CCs for 11 people, so I added to the booty to make it up to the higher-end jobbers. Everyone wanted to port after a single entry.

I think that, in the future, if I ever repeated the process, I would try to ensure I had several novice players interested before posting a job offer. And/or use an alt so I don't get expert interest because of name recognition. And/or make sure that there is at least one traditional CI run jobbing at the same time to attract the better players.

The low CC count I expected, taking novices, so no disappointments there. Thralling time was... eh. Longer than I'm used to, but not past what it was like back when I started. I mostly had to re-adjust my expectations. If I do it in the future, I'll state the maximum time we'll thrall as soon as we enter, and stick to it.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by xelto at Jun 15, 2013 8:23:25 AM]
[Jun 15, 2013 8:22:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lilzepp

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So it seems as though this is a popular idea so once I have the time to set up scheduling it all ill post that and if y'all could spread the word that would be great, now onto what I want to ask, if there are any CI experienced people that would want to be part of a CI training crew please tell me, and we can talk about how we can set this up an figure this out? :) thanks in advance for any feed back :)
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Zeppe of Emerald Ocean
Captain of the crew "Cash Money Monsters"
[Jun 16, 2013 4:09:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jeted

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I would be more than happy to donate time and cash to help you fund this, just contact me in-game if you can mate.
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Jeted on Sage (Emerald) Ocean

Santaa on the Emerald Ocean, instigator of the 2011 and 2012 Xmas Giveaways.

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I didn't start the Xmas in July ones, but im pretty sure Pegasiswolf dedicated them in remembrance of me
[Jul 5, 2013 9:27:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Jeted [Link]  Go to top 
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