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wrs1864b

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looking for advice on moving a wood 40-60 leagues (MG? GF?) Reply to this Post
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I need some advice on how to move wood from 40 to 60 leagues away. I'm guessing I need to use either a MG or a GF, but I've avoided using ships that size until now.

How many people do you need to hire for these ships? Based on yppedia info I'm guessing about 8-10 for a MG and 16-20 on a GF...

I've been told that dnav on the large ships isn't very effective at avoiding bots, but I would think that it would be useful anyway to speed up sails. Thoughts/experiences?

In theory, going 43 leagues could take as little as 1hr 45min, does anyone have experience in what it would take in practice?

How much rum is needed for these kinds of trade runs?

Oh, and since the ocean population of Cerulean is often under 100, how long do you think it would take to get 10+ jobbers that would be willing to stick around for a long, boring, trade run?

Why am I considering doing this? Well the ocean mergers really screwed over cobalt. I have shops on Kirin, the most populous island on Cerulean. I have used up all my stockpile of wood bid tickets and simply can not get wood from Lima/Prolix as fast as I consume it. The dockside price for wood on Kirin is varying between 35-38 PoE/unit, but it is only that low because I'm shipping in all my wood and as I said, I can't get wood fast enough from nearby islands. If I start trying to buy wood from the merchant bots, I expect that wood would easily top 40-45PoE/unit.

ugh

So, since nearby islands aren't spawning wood fast enough and the bots won't deliver enough, I'm looking at other islands.

Jubilee is "only" 43 leagues away and the market price of wood there is currently 16PoE. Eta is 50 leagues away and at 18PoE. There is also Turtle/Spring which are 57 leagues away. Charcoal is 58 leagues away and at 18PoE.

Since the chances of OOO actually doing anything to fix what they destroyed is pretty slim, I'm looking for any helpful ideas/advice people can give.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Jun 1, 2013 8:46:13 AM]
[Jun 1, 2013 8:45:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Yasmi6

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Re: looking for advice on moving a wood 40-60 leagues (MG? GF?) Reply to this Post
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40 to 60 leagues is a lot unless u have some helpful pirate friends. i normally solo wood mbs runs and if it goes over 15 lps i do it in 2 goes. is it really worth moving wood from that far away? u need to take into costs ur time and the rum ... and not to talk if u get engaged
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Yasmi on Meridian
Yasmi/Ayani on all oceans
Captain of Lilith's Perfume
Princess of Imperial Coalition
(ex-Queen of Devils Advocates)

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Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven...
[Jun 1, 2013 8:58:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: looking for advice on moving a wood 40-60 leagues (MG? GF?) Reply to this Post
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The dockside price for wood on Kirin is varying between 35-38 PoE/unit, but it is only that low because I'm shipping in all my wood and as I said, I can't get wood fast enough from nearby islands. If I start trying to buy wood from the merchant bots, I expect that wood would easily top 40-45PoE/unit.

Not fun, but the <merchants> are still probably cheaper than 50 LP trade runs.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by xelto at Jun 1, 2013 9:02:37 AM]
[Jun 1, 2013 9:02:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: looking for advice on moving a wood 40-60 leagues (MG? GF?) Reply to this Post
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is it really worth moving wood from that far away?

Well, my calculations are that a MG can hold 1540 wood. If I buy it at 19 (after fees) on Jubilee and sell it for 35-40 on Kirin, that's 25k-30k revenue. Add in 100PoE/league for swabbie costs, so 4.3k there. If I pay people 20PoE/league and hire 10 people, that's 8.6k. Add in rum costs, and other stuff, and I'm still up 10k-15k PoE profit.

I dunno. Maybe paying 40-50PoE/unit of wood isn't that bad.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Jun 1, 2013 9:13:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: looking for advice on moving a wood 40-60 leagues (MG? GF?) Reply to this Post
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is it really worth moving wood from that far away?

Well, my calculations are that a MG can hold 1540 wood. If I buy it at 19 (after fees) on Jubilee and sell it for 35-40 on Kirin, that's 25k-30k revenue. Add in 100PoE/league for swabbie costs, so 4.3k there. If I pay people 20PoE/league and hire 10 people, that's 8.6k. Add in rum costs, and other stuff, and I'm still up 10k-15k PoE profit.

I dunno. Maybe paying 40-50PoE/unit of wood isn't that bad.

10-15k profit for ~2 hours work, plus trying to find 10 people to man the ship, minus any losses if you get engaged... I would just pay the bots to bring it to you, if I was in that situation. If you're really interested in long-distance sailing, do gem running. You can get more profit for less headache that way.

Unless your main business is a shipyard. In which case, moving to the other side of the ocean might be cheaper in the long run, even if it does involve getting a new shoppe.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Jun 1, 2013 11:21:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Momma_Wolf



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Re: looking for advice on moving a wood 40-60 leagues (MG? GF?) Reply to this Post
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One thing I can suggest if you're going to move wood that far is to NOT do it all at once, unless you have or are a stellar dnaver and you're set to evade. After about 12 leagues the bots seem to get more aggressive in targeting. Port on an island around 10 leagues out, do something else for a half hour so the ship heals if needed, and then go on.


Time consuming? oh yes. Safer? In my experience, yes.
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Mommawolf, lurking on most oceans
Captain, Blackwolf Marauders of Midnight, now Cerulean
Queen, Victory Raiders of Midnight, now Cerulean

cmdrzoom said:
 

Anyone may demand answers of the gods.
Getting them is another matter.

[Jun 3, 2013 6:03:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Bobafeis

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Re: looking for advice on moving a wood 40-60 leagues (MG? GF?) Reply to this Post
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Algol wrote: 


How many people do you need to hire for these ships? Based on yppedia info I'm guessing about 8-10 for a MG and 16-20 on a GF...


You can run an MG with as few as 6, if they're good puzzlers and you can keep them. I'd go with a few more than that, though, because that long a long voyage will get you hoppers and understaffing one of those is a recipe for disaster. Decent pay ends up being much more important on an MG than on other ships, but the extra staffing needed means it'll cut deeper into your profit margin.

Unless you're very good at watching for spawns while puzzling, make sure your staffing allows for someone sitting in the crow's nest.

A GF... those numbers look right, but I don't have any recent experience for that.

 

I've been told that dnav on the large ships isn't very effective at avoiding bots, but I would think that it would be useful anyway to speed up sails. Thoughts/experiences?


I haven't noticed a difference in the number of spawns I get in an MG vs sloop/cutter/MB at all. The problem is picking up speed after turning to avoid your spawn once it appears. If you don't actually lose the spawn the first time, you're almost certain to get engaged.

I get a spawn every 10-15 leagues, even if I've never dropped from sparkling or had a slow/complicated board in that time. Probably budget for that (or more frequent spawns, depending on the skill of your dnav).

 
In theory, going 43 leagues could take as little as 1hr 45min, does anyone have experience in what it would take in practice?


On a sloop, I budget about 2 hours for that, but I don't generate many spawns and I'm very good at avoiding what I do spawn. There have been disastrous runs where it's taken close to three. It's probably not likely to get that bad in an MG, just because repair rates being what they are, if you get engaged once, you're likely to get engaged again if you can't make it to port quickly and your voyage is pretty much dead at that point.

On that note... I'm sure you know this, but for anyone else reading and wondering: if you get engaged in an understaffed MG, don't try to run for the disengage. The chances of you making it are pretty slim, to put it generously. Just throw a hook in whatever way will mean you taking the least amount of damage. You are highly unlikely to win the battle, but you might leave your ship clean enough to limp to port.

If you get any noticeable damage, port at the next island. MGs are very hard to clear of damage and slightly unpleasant to handle if they're not clear.

 
Oh, and since the ocean population of Cerulean is often under 100, how long do you think it would take to get 10+ jobbers that would be willing to stick around for a long, boring, trade run?


Depends on pay, time of day, what else is on the board and how much your hearties like you. Sorry I don't have a better answer than that, but I've loaded an MG in under five minutes at 3am game time when there were fewer than 50 people online and then struggled at peak hours even when the board was empty.

I usually pay 10-15/league for an MG run, but mine are much shorter and I can attract people who just want some quick poe or are bored. To get people to stay once they start getting bored... you might need more money.


mommawolf wrote: 


One thing I can suggest if you're going to move wood that far is to NOT do it all at once, unless you have or are a stellar dnaver and you're set to evade. After about 12 leagues the bots seem to get more aggressive in targeting. Port on an island around 10 leagues out, do something else for a half hour so the ship heals if needed, and then go on.


You don't actually need to go do something else; porting is what resets the spawns. What I usually do after I get my first spawn is port at the next island and deport right away. Unless that's the end of the route or someone hops off station, it won't end your jobbers' puzzling sessions. The DR immediately after can look lower, but it doesn't actually seem to have an effect on overall scores (I haven't tested this fully, but neither my standings nor my jobbers have ever gone down at the end of a run where I've done this and I don't usually lose sparkles.)

-

I think you might be better off doing this in stages, just to avoid jobber fatigue. Even if they don't leave in battle, hoppers can destroy an MG run. If you have it broken up into different legs, your jobbers are more likely to stay until the next port instead of hopping midway through.

Anyway, if I'm online when you do this run and not on a boat, hit me up. I can't say I'll be able to stay for the whole thing, but I can help with part of it.
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-Annarinda (blue)/Arryarrwoot (green)/possibly other pirates along the way-
Eca drew a picture of me.

[Jun 3, 2013 4:20:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: looking for advice on moving a wood 40-60 leagues (MG? GF?) Reply to this Post
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First, I would like to thank everyone for their advice, I greatly appreciate it.

Second, I talked with a hearty who has, for years run a MG full of wood 26 leagues (charcoal->TLM) when she really needs to. Her advice was:

1) don't leave port with fewer than 8 jobbers, more is better due to hoppers
2) make sure you have a GOOD duty navver
3) She has used as much as 45 rum going 26 leagues
4) running it all in one trip and not porting at islands works best because getting up to speed is the most dangerous time
5) She pays 40-50PoE/league

I understand that a lot of the advice I've gotten here has had a few contradictions, but we all have systems that work and it and trying to develop a provably best possible system isn't worth it.

Third, I am somewhat playing devils advocate by proposing to move wood 40-60 leagues. In the "OOO booched the spawns on Cerulean" thread that I linked to in my OP, I said: "Even if you used a MG, with only a few extra players getting sub-navy wages and bought the wood at 1PoE/unit on Charcoal/Jubilee, there just isn't enough profit to make things worth while." Granted, when I wrote that I was imagining the wood being bought for 25-30 PoE, not the 40-45PoE I'm looking at now, but the margin is about the same.

Fourth, I found bid tickets for 1000 units of wood that I had filling, so instead of falling behind my wood usage, my bid tickets are actually filling faster than I'm using it! Great! Unfortunately, it is only about 50units faster per month and the last two months haven't had LE ships so my SY hasn't been very busy. *gah*.

Last, my current estimates of my costs to ship wood from Jubilee to Kirin are:
bid price: 18PoE/unit after fees * 1540 units = 27720 PoE
swabbie transport costs: 100PoE/league * 43 leagues = 4300 PoE
rum costs (based on my hearty's trips) : 43leagues/26leagues * 45 rum * 62PoE/rum = 4614 PoE
jobber pay: 43 leagues * 45PoE/league * 10 jobbers = 19350
losses: none (I can dream, right?)
total: 55984 PoE for 1540 units of wood or 36PoE/unit
If I add in what my time is worth, we are looking at over 50PoE/unit.

bottom line: It would be cheaper to pay 50PoE/unit for the <merchant> bots bring it to Kirin.

I've had my shops on Kirin for years and they have quite a bit of sentimental value to me. I don't want to just give up easily, but it looks like it is going to be hard to stay on the Cobalt side of Cerulean.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Jun 4, 2013 8:14:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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