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mikipiki



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The Economy Reply to this Post
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Well the title says it all, over the years i have sadly seen the slow fall in popularity of this game.

Assuming the way back to " glory" so to speak is to improve the economy, what should we do to get people back to puzzle pirates?

Personally i think to get this game popular again you need to change a few things (which im 99.99% sure the owners of the game would never do).

First of all certain dubloon costs have to fall. For example, when yer a young pirate new to the game, really all you want to do is pillage and then get your own ship, a sloop normally, just to start off. The problem is the price gap is way too much for a nublet and most likely they wont spend hours pillaging.

So i think the first step would be to reduce the amount of dubloons needed to buy a certain group of ships. Firstly reducing the sloop's dubloon cost from 20 to 10 dubloons, and then a vessel that is small-medium sized like the baghlah's by around 10-15 dubloons. Although majority of people buy their ships from an inn, this would lower the actual price of the ships themselves in an inn aswell.

Second of all i think there should be actual content release periodically. Most MMO games have content released every wee/fortnight etc. I think puzzle pirates should have new content released every month even if its just small changes, but this will give pirates more things to do and keep them interested.
Also by new content i don't mean releasing new LE ships that only the rich can buy (but im not saying get rid of it).

I also think that there should be starter kits for new pirates, with perhaps an untradeable pirate badge and a few other goodies.

I also think that the dubloon price for the bravery badge should be lowered or scrapped altogether, while the parlor badge should go up.

Now you may eb thinking, well we can't just lower all our dubloon prices because then the game wont make money and will fail to succeed. Well maybe not, because if these lower costs can bring in and keep new pirates, it will overall increase the amount of subscribers/dubloon buyers.

Finally (and this is just a sketchy thought to try slight counter-balance the doubloon drops mentioned above), i think certain clothes should have reduced dubloon costs, while others should have increased, thereby allowing nublets to be happy and still spend a few dubloons, while forcing the richer to spend a few extra dubloons on creating fancy clothing and hence increasing the frequency of purchased dubloons.

What are your thoughts please don't criticize me too aggressively.. ive only just started playing again, and also what are your suggestions to improve the economy and get pirates playing again.

Finally a heads up sorry for the grammer, i havent had time to proof read =S
[Dec 6, 2012 1:49:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Twittly

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Re: The Economy Reply to this Post
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So i think the first step would be to reduce the amount of dubloons needed to buy a certain group of ships. Firstly reducing the sloop's dubloon cost from 20 to 10 dubloons, and then a vessel that is small-medium sized like the baghlah's by around 10-15 dubloons. Although majority of people buy their ships from an inn, this would lower the actual price of the ships themselves in an inn aswell.
They can not simply just reduce the price of ship by that great of an amount. Many people would lose ALOT of money. (Trust me on that one... a 20k difference on a sloop is a big drop)

 
Second of all i think there should be actual content release periodically.
I could agree on this point.

 
I also think that there should be starter kits for new pirates,
Yes, but make the other goodies untradeable aswell.

 
I also think that the dubloon price for the bravery badge should be lowered or scrapped altogether, while the parlor badge should go up.
Hard to do. For example, I buy my badges in bulk.

For clothes, they could simply design more clothing. You can NEVER have too much clothing.
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[Dec 6, 2012 4:27:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Togz



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Personally I don't spend any real money on dubloons, my main train is I don't have the money too :P
And while dropping dubloon prices on some things like a sloop would help out pirates looking to expand into the game, there not to pricey. I may play a bit excessively but out would only take 3-5 good pillys to afford a sloop.

Clothing would be nice if it were cheaper. I wear clothes given to me by friends, won in tourneys or gained from the navy. I wouldn't kind a nice cheap hat that los nice for only 1 or 2 dubloons.
The SMH badge I think should still cost some dubs. I wouldn't want to see the price go up. But it its meant to be for pirates that have got the picking down part. I haven't got one yet, the last time I had enough pure I brought a sloop :D

Bringing back the starter kit they used to have would be nice, and maybe have
A navy rank early-ish give a pirate badge? I know I found just straight pillying a little boring. But them I got into a crew, got a ship, became an officer and a bunch of mates. Now the game its great! But being there was a lot if hard work, and if I had had anything beret to do I probably wouldn't have stayed this long. But once I found out about the fun of gunning, my inability to complete the dnav and the fun of yelling at my gunner in a sea battle. It brought so much more to the game fire me. I still job with the navy just so I can yell at the boys when ever we lose to a wart brig ;)

I'm not sure if I stayed on topic for all that, if I did YAY, if not then sorry. But while some chapter starter packs should be made (maybe on subscription oceans you could have a starting price? Like you have everything up to pirate but you have to part full to get anything better?)
But, while the puzzling community may be small it is great. I would like some more new faces, but I don't want it ringed by a bunch of jerks and noobs (noobs, newbs are what I want).

There my 2 cents (our that might be a little more than that...

~ Togz
[Dec 6, 2012 4:38:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: The Economy Reply to this Post
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So i think the first step would be to reduce the amount of dubloons needed to buy a certain group of ships. Firstly reducing the sloop's dubloon cost from 20 to 10 dubloons, and then a vessel that is small-medium sized like the baghlah's by around 10-15 dubloons.

Nope. While I think that many doubloon fees need to be altered, ships don't fit the mix. Leaving aside the fact that someone wanting a jump start can spend a small amount of real-life money to get it, there's the basic fact that we need more jobbers, not navigators. Now, I'm not saying that new players should be totally denied the privilege of navigating, but I will say that most of them need to be on trips as a jobber, first, so that they learn what a good trip entails. Slowing down that first sloop purchase helps there.

 
Second of all i think there should be actual content release periodically. Most MMO games have content released every wee/fortnight etc. I think puzzle pirates should have new content released every month even if its just small changes, but this will give pirates more things to do and keep them interested.
Also by new content i don't mean releasing new LE ships

But I will distinctly agree with this part.

 
I also think that the dubloon price for the bravery badge should be lowered or scrapped altogether, while the parlor badge should go up.

Any particular reason for this one? It sounds more like you're aiming for your preferences, rather than a well-balanced approach here.

 
Finally (and this is just a sketchy thought to try slight counter-balance the doubloon drops mentioned above), i think certain clothes should have reduced dubloon costs, while others should have increased, thereby allowing nublets to be happy and still spend a few dubloons, while forcing the richer to spend a few extra dubloons on creating fancy clothing and hence increasing the frequency of purchased dubloons.

Not only should there be more dub/sub-free clothing at the low end, but I think there should be more weapons, as well-- give the greenies the chance to play with different things so that they have reason to want the more expensive ones. Oh, and I don't think you need to dramatically increase the costs for the upper-end clothing. Simply removing or reducing the amount of new-condition clothing from Atlantis, HS, and (especially) CI would go a long way to prodding people to spend actual doubloons for their clothing. (You can still get the unique colors for each voyage through chromas, after all).
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[Dec 6, 2012 2:09:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TexasBeesh

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Re: The Economy Reply to this Post
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Second of all i think there should be actual content release periodically. Most MMO games have content released every wee/fortnight etc. I think puzzle pirates should have new content released every month even if its just small changes, but this will give pirates more things to do and keep them interested.
Also by new content i don't mean releasing new LE ships that only the rich can buy (but im not saying get rid of it).


I would love if new clothing came out! I would not be opposed to LE type clothing where they would have them for a few months then rotate out with other items. Things that stalls can produce to help the shop keepers. The LE ships help out Apoth and weavery for sail cloth, so why not help out the furnishers too. LE furniture that we don't have to buy more sub/doub time to get, but can be produced by shop/stalls.

I know that LE items are not a real "fix", but I am sure it would help the economy out. I guess I am not sure what "actual content" is. I think the charts to vikings, and digs was nice. New puzzles take a lot of work and time, therefore they can't come up with things like that every few weeks. Like you said even small changes would help.
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[Dec 6, 2012 2:47:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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I guess I am not sure what "actual content" is. I think the charts to vikings, and digs was nice. New puzzles take a lot of work and time, therefore they can't come up with things like that every few weeks. Like you said even small changes would help.

It doesn't have to be new puzzles or adventure types each month. In fact, it probably can't be. But small, regular things would be nice. For instance:

Month 1: New article of clothing
Month 2: return of seasonal furniture, selection increased by 2 items. New LE ship
Month 3: Additional monster added for Atlantis, designed to fill the "weak critter" role in zones 1, 2, and 3 (and will occasionally be seen in 4 and 5). One totally new piece of atlantean furniture, plus a new design for the omnipresent broken atlantean amphoras.
Month 4: Ghostly dhows show up in HS. New LE ship
Month 5: Pillaging for feathers contest: random ships defeated through pillaging will give phoenix feather trinkets. At the end of the month, players may use the trinkets at a familiar auction. Seasonal furniture reappears
Month 6: Two new BK banners show up at explorer's hall. New LE ship.
Month 7: Seasonal limited edition clothing line, 2 male and 2 female pieces. New furniture
Month 8: Kraken hunt shows up on Ice. New LE ship
Month 9: Kraken hunt leaves Ice for more tweaking due to excellent feedback. New CI furniture.
Month 10: kraken hunt back on Ice. New LE ship. Build-a-boat special event: buried treasure expedition chests may include limited edition replacement guns, helms, and bowsprits for players to win over a 2 week period.
Month 11: Kraken hunt shows up on production oceans
Month 12: New LE ship. Black box series 4 shows up.
Month 13: Karkinos islands added to kraken hunt to provide extra variety and challenge. Karkinos no longer appear in Atlantis, now appear as a winnable prize from kraken hunt in addition to the other things previously set up.
Month 14: bids for bid tickets now restricted to 2 significant digits. New LE ship.
Month 15: New pet for Atlantis: seals
Month 16: etc.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Dec 6, 2012 5:07:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mikipiki



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I guess I am not sure what "actual content" is. I think the charts to vikings, and digs was nice. New puzzles take a lot of work and time, therefore they can't come up with things like that every few weeks. Like you said even small changes would help.

It doesn't have to be new puzzles or adventure types each month. In fact, it probably can't be. But small, regular things would be nice. For instance:

Month 1: New article of clothing
Month 2: return of seasonal furniture, selection increased by 2 items. New LE ship
Month 3: Additional monster added for Atlantis, designed to fill the "weak critter" role in zones 1, 2, and 3 (and will occasionally be seen in 4 and 5). One totally new piece of atlantean furniture, plus a new design for the omnipresent broken atlantean amphoras.
Month 4: Ghostly dhows show up in HS. New LE ship
Month 5: Pillaging for feathers contest: random ships defeated through pillaging will give phoenix feather trinkets. At the end of the month, players may use the trinkets at a familiar auction. Seasonal furniture reappears
Month 6: Two new BK banners show up at explorer's hall. New LE ship.
Month 7: Seasonal limited edition clothing line, 2 male and 2 female pieces. New furniture
Month 8: Kraken hunt shows up on Ice. New LE ship
Month 9: Kraken hunt leaves Ice for more tweaking due to excellent feedback. New CI furniture.
Month 10: kraken hunt back on Ice. New LE ship. Build-a-boat special event: buried treasure expedition chests may include limited edition replacement guns, helms, and bowsprits for players to win over a 2 week period.
Month 11: Kraken hunt shows up on production oceans
Month 12: New LE ship. Black box series 4 shows up.
Month 13: Karkinos islands added to kraken hunt to provide extra variety and challenge. Karkinos no longer appear in Atlantis, now appear as a winnable prize from kraken hunt in addition to the other things previously set up.
Month 14: bids for bid tickets now restricted to 2 significant digits. New LE ship.
Month 15: New pet for Atlantis: seals
Month 16: etc.


Great example! Also when i said lowering the dubs for bravery badge but increasing for pralor, it wasnt really a preference, i guess what i mean to say was that really majority of people that buy dubloons don't consistently do SMH's the majority is just yer average pirates. Therefore allowing these pirates to spend poe elsewhere (perhaps products that have indirectly or directly been produced/bought by the purchasing of dubloons for real life money).

The reason i said increase the parlor badge price is i think it will solve one good point you said earlier, that we need more jobbers, as it will make newbies pillage or puzzle more rather than just poker while taking an extra few dubloons from those who poker (and often buy dubloons) wouldn't hurt =P
[Dec 7, 2012 11:07:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
thylawrence2

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I agree with many of the points above, particularly about the poe and economy. For example: a greenie who has just started playing will most likely earn most of their poe jobbing for pillages, with bnavvers looking for very modest gains. The fact that it will take them many battles just to gain even the cheapest of items (at current doubloon prices) is very, very discouraging. And inability to get what they want at a reasonably fast rate will cause them to go elsewhere for enjoyment. Even at a high level, buying things to make the game more fun is painfully difficult.

This could be rectified by manually lowering doubloon exchange prices, so that shopkeepers' profits don't plummet into the negatives (not that many aren't already doing so anyways). Personally, I think it may be a short-term loss for OOO to do this but will pay off greatly in the long run.

I know, you can buy stuff off of other people. But where do they get the stuff? And how can a greenie ensure that he is not being ripped off by a more experienced player (not that buying from bazaars with doubloons ISN'T being ripped off).

Changing doubloon exchange prices would greatly benefit the game; perhaps tweaking the economy in a way that could lower shop prices yet let them gain more profit would be even better. (this may seem counter-intuitive but I am certain there is a way to do this.)
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All about Tothemoonn! of the Emerald Ocean

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[Dec 8, 2012 12:22:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Belthazar451

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xelto wrote: 
Month 8: Kraken hunt shows up on Ice. New LE ship
Month 9: Kraken hunt leaves Ice for more tweaking due to excellent feedback. New CI furniture.
Month 10: kraken hunt back on Ice.

What? Use Ice for testing and actually fix any bugs/features based on feedback while still on Ice? That's just crazy talk.
[Dec 8, 2012 1:23:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gascony



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This could be rectified by manually lowering doubloon exchange prices, so that shopkeepers' profits don't plummet into the negatives (not that many aren't already doing so anyways).


I'm guessing that you don't mean the price at which players buy doubloons for real money from OOO, but rather the exchange rate between doubloons and PoE. That rate is set by the market. How would you "manually" lower it? If OOO modified the software to register only three digits, so that no bid or offer could exceed 999 PoE, then people with doubloons would merely be put to the inconvenience of cutting deals through open outcry in the inns. Also, it would make doubloons less valuable and reduce players' incentive to buy dubs from OOO.
[Dec 8, 2012 3:05:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mikipiki



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This could be rectified by manually lowering doubloon exchange prices, so that shopkeepers' profits don't plummet into the negatives (not that many aren't already doing so anyways).


I'm guessing that you don't mean the price at which players buy doubloons for real money from OOO, but rather the exchange rate between doubloons and PoE. That rate is set by the market. How would you "manually" lower it? If OOO modified the software to register only three digits, so that no bid or offer could exceed 999 PoE, then people with doubloons would merely be put to the inconvenience of cutting deals through open outcry in the inns. Also, it would make doubloons less valuable and reduce players' incentive to buy dubs from OOO.


I think by manually set prices i think he meant that perhaps OOO makes an account and using codes or whatever give that piratelets say 200,000 dubloons, they then sell these dubloons at 1k ea.
[Dec 8, 2012 7:20:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Twittly

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I think by manually set prices i think he meant that perhaps OOO makes an account and using codes or whatever give that piratelets say 200,000 dubloons, they then sell these dubloons at 1k ea.

This would not be good. People invest a lot of poe in investing in dubs, and they doing that would make people lose ALOT of money. If they did, I would seriously consider just stop playing and leave.
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~Twittly~ on "Sage" "Emerald" Ocean
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[Dec 8, 2012 7:51:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
thylawrence2

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I think by manually set prices i think he meant that perhaps OOO makes an account and using codes or whatever give that piratelets say 200,000 dubloons, they then sell these dubloons at 1k ea.


I was thinking of something similar to what Gascony said. I;m aware of the short-term consequences (Twittly exemplifies the reaction well), but I think if enough people stay it will pay off in the long run. I think the obscenely high price of even relatively modest items discourages enough people whose main income is centered around small pillages. If new greenies are able to get the things they want in a reasonable amount of time, they will enjoy the game more and probably stay. Even experienced players such as myself will benefit, as they will be able to have more fun. I'm not saying, "give everyone free poe or handouts". I'm suggesting that OOO lowers doubloon exchange prices, and somehow manage to stabilize the economy in its new form. This might have drastic short-term consequences but I think it will pay off.
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All about Tothemoonn! of the Emerald Ocean

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[Dec 8, 2012 11:56:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Belthazar451

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I've actually considered in the past how one person might cause a change in the doubloon market prices. Trouble is, to brute-force a change, and hold it there, you've gotta literally flood the market with doubloons. Otherwise the regular sellers are just going to buy them all out, and sell them back at the previous price. We're talking increasing the number of doubloons currenty in circulation by half again, or more. And that's going to cause real-world money issues for Three Rings.

thylawrence2 wrote: 
somehow manage to stabilize the economy in its new form

This here is where all the difficult bits are hidden.
[Dec 8, 2012 12:14:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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I agree that doubloon prices are too high; most of the in game items seem to be priced under the assumption that 1 dub is equivalent to 1000 PoE (e.g. housing, most ships) or less (most swords, bludgeons, furniture and also the sloop). There are some extreme examples like whisking potions (100 PoE and another 2500 for the dub: over 95% of the cost of this item is in the delivery!), but in general if the dub price is 1000 PoE then most items are around 50% delivery. It also brings a sloop in at under 20k which is a much more attainable target for a first ship than the current 60k.

However, OOO can't just decide what that price is. It's set by the balance of in-game PoE and real life money being put into doubloons, and if they inject doubloons artificially, that comes straight out of their RL revenue. (Maybe not at 1:1, as a lower price will increase throughput somewhat, but it will definitely hurt them.) That's not going to happen.

What they can do is deflate the PoE, which increases its value and therefore lowers the exchange price of a dub. The trick for this one is to deflate it by hitting the people who have lots of it, and influence the exchange price the most, without cutting the entry-level fountains which are where new players get into the game.

The obvious places to take PoE out of the high end of the game are 200k poker games and blockade jobbing pay. Both of these could take a rake of 2% and no-one would care (I'm sure people would still play poker with 196,000 PoE, or pay 2% more for their jobbers), but a significant amount of PoE could be taken out of the economy over time.

Deflating the PoE might even increase the dubs bought, as if I understand it right the majority of dubs are bought by a few big spenders. These people would need to drop more RL cash to get the same in-game advantage if the PoE was more highly valued.
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Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite)
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[Dec 10, 2012 11:02:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
thylawrence2

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However, OOO can't just decide what that price is. It's set by the balance of in-game PoE and real life money being put into doubloons, and if they inject doubloons artificially, that comes straight out of their RL revenue. (Maybe not at 1:1, as a lower price will increase throughput somewhat, but it will definitely hurt them.) That's not going to happen.


Technically, they can. They have the full power to alter the mathematics behind the doubloon exchange prices to better suit the needs of the community. I understand that this move will affect RL revenue; however I feel that it may be a necessary sacrifice at this juncture. I believe doing this, in conjunction with many other investments/sacrifices (such as putting more money down on the table for advertisements, producing substantive game content more rapidly to give a real sense of growth, etc) will generate long-term revenue and ultimately lead to success in the future. Obviously, it will not be so easy, rosy, or guaranteed as in the way I've stated above, but I think sacrifices now at such a crucial moment in the game could either break it or save it.
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All about Tothemoonn! of the Emerald Ocean

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[Dec 10, 2012 10:21:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SirCarl67

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OK technically OOO can sell doubloons at 1500 while the player base value them at 2500 but doing so is not a good idea.

If it was a temporary offer the result would be everyone would buy all the doubloons they could. I suspect that most wealth is stored in poe otherwise fams etc would be generally traded in doubs, As soon as the offer is over people would not buy doubs with real money (as vthey have plenty) the poe price for doubs would then rise as doubs are used until you are back at 2500 with the same problem. Result OOO have no income for several weeks / months and at the and of the period there is no change to the economy

If the effect is permanent all doubs would be bought via the exchange from OOO and they would get no revenue permanently.

OOO interfering directly with the market doesn't just reduce their income it virtually wipes it out.
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Apollo tells ye "If you're ok for me to do one [bake-off], I'll go with that."
[Dec 11, 2012 10:23:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Belthazar451

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thylawrence2 wrote: 
They have the full power to alter the mathematics behind the doubloon exchange prices to better suit the needs of the community.

What mathematics is behind the doubloon exchange, precisely? Aside from buy low + sell high = profit!, the only mathematics I can think of is the 2% fee for selling, and I'm not clear on how changing the fee would improve the market. If you raise the fee, people would just stop selling through the exchange.
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wrs1864b

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thylawrence2 wrote: 
They have the full power to alter the mathematics behind the doubloon exchange prices to better suit the needs of the community.

What mathematics is behind the doubloon exchange, precisely?

Oh there are lots of ways, be creative. For example, instead of every dub put up by a player resulting in one dub being listed on the exchange, they could put two on the exchange.

Contrary to SirCarl67's claim, OOO putting dubs on the exchange would not destroy all sales of dubs for RL money. Every dub OOO puts on the exchange would be a PoE sink, and there is a maximum amount of PoE that can be sunk per day. Players want PoE, that is why there are dub listed on the exchange right now and that wouldn't change if OOO listed dubs also. What players would simply do is list their dubs for a few PoE less than OOO's. A large percentage of the dubs exchanged would still be between players. Her suggestion isn't a very good one, almost a staw-man proposal, but it wouldn't kill OOO.

Players may dictate the exact value of the exchange rate, but OOO's game design has a very strong influence on the general price range.

As Bobjanova pointed out a few posts up, OOO can make PoE more valuable by adding more PoE sinks. Reducing the dub exchange rate means that to get the same amount of PoE, players would need to sell more dubs. Most of the dub sinks in the game also sink about 1k PoE. If every dub sold on the exchange gets 5k PoE, then people only have to sell 20% of there dubs on the exchange to buy stuff. If, instead, the exchange rate was 500 PoE, people would need to sell 67% off their dubs in order to buy the same stuff. While OOO's sales of dubs to those players for RL money probably wouldn't go up by a factor of 3, the lower dub exchange rate would likely mean more new players and more old players spending dubs on non-essential things.

Overall, OOO could see a very significant increase in dub saales by making game design changes that caused a lower exchange rate.

My preference would be for OOO to add PoE sinks in other parts of the game, but adding a PoE sink via OOO listed dubs on the exchange is neither hard to do, nor as damaging as people seem to think.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Dec 11, 2012 1:11:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SirCarl67

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If doubs were 500 poe each (and everything else the same) would people buy more doubs? No because you can earn thepoe to get the doubs very easily, direct intervention in the doubloon exchange just isn't going to work.

The indirect approach can work in developing more poe sinks, as mentioned these should be targeted at the wealthier players, possibilities are:

Tax on jobber pay
Poker Rake (possibly only on the high tables but it would be nice to encourage new players to the parts of the game that are unique to it)
Have a poe cost as well as a doub cost for gold boxes
Increase the poe cost of portraits
Target price on rare herbs/ minerals to be raised

The last might need a little explanation. A new pirate might use a yellow / yellow short sword and wear clothes in cheap colours, these are relatively inexpensive because they originate with the cheaper minerals and herbs. If now the target price for Masuyite was increased to 10k and yarrow to 20k increased to 10k and this would not affect the poorer pirate but would mean the rich pirate fighting with a white falchion would be sinking a lot more poe. Similarly if indigo and pokeweed prices went up so would navy and purple clothing.

I'm not sure if gold and KB have a target price if not things might need to be tweaked, KB would probably need to be split into multiple units like gold was, the proportion of large chests containing gems could be increased. While these would increase the sinks they would make KB and gold rarer and hence keep items that use them the most expensive. Alternatively they could just let it be and have black cloth as expensive as navy.
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[Dec 11, 2012 5:30:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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The indirect approach can work in developing more poe sinks, as mentioned these should be targeted at the wealthier players, possibilities are:

Tax on jobber pay
Poker Rake (possibly only on the high tables but it would be nice to encourage new players to the parts of the game that are unique to it)
Have a poe cost as well as a doub cost for gold boxes
Increase the poe cost of portraits
Target price on rare herbs/ minerals to be raised


Some game activity that costs PoE to play, but doesn't cost additional doubloons. Some time ago, I recommended an coliseum island attraction, were players could compete with each other in PvP and other ship-based contests, that required players to use a stocked ship, and the stock would be depleted normally. Even using sloops only, a basic PvP should go through about 500-1000 PoE per ship, per fight. More complex fights (battle royale, capture the flag, etc) or larger ships would burn through a lot more.

Individually, that's not going to sink a lot of PoE. But collectively that would would add up.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Dec 11, 2012 6:44:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Meridien

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I'm wondering if a solution isn't simply to reduce the doubloon cost on a number of selected items. Before anyone thinks to give me a lecture on supply and demand, think it through.
The fear would be that fewer dubs would be sunk, but I'm not sure this is the case. I suspect that pirates would be then more willing to purchase items with a delivery fee, which has the kick-on benefits of stimulating the merchant/shopkeeping aspects of the game, and sinking poe through tax. It may even lead to people purchasing even more dubs than at present as they develop a taste for fancy clothing, and well furnished houses.
While it may not lower the poe cost of doubloons, it would give them more purchasing power, and that's what we're after isn't it?

Of course, I'm no economist...
Erudite on Meridian
[Dec 11, 2012 8:03:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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If doubs were 500 poe each (and everything else the same) would people buy more doubs? No because you can earn thepoe to get the doubs very easily, direct intervention in the doubloon exchange just isn't going to work.

Dubs only get put on the exchange when people buy them from OOO and list them. If dubs were 500PoE and everything else was the same, people would buy more dubs from the exchange and that means that other people would have to be listing more on the exchange.

But, again, players may determine the exact value of the exchange rate between PoE and dubs, but OOO's game design largely determines the price range. With the way the game is designed right now, you couldn't have everything else the same and get 500PoE dubs.

There are two pressures on the exchange rate. The obvious one is the more PoE each dub costs, the more likely people will be to buy dubs directly from OOO. I'm just pointing out the not so obvious pressure that the more PoE each dub brings in for the seller, the fewer the seller needs to list. There are a lot more people who play for "free" by buying dubs via the exchange than there are sellers, so it is all too easy to only look at things from the free player's perspective.

The PoE sinks people have mentioned would certainly help, but it is hard to get around the problem that most stuff, especially high-end stuff, requires sinking dubs in order to sink PoE. Black boxes are one of the few things that PoE-rich and dub-poor players can throw PoE at that doesn't just recirculate the PoE to other players.

I was very disappointed that gold boxes were made pure dub sinks. I think the 25kPoE/box that they are on blue oceans would have been better for the game. It would have looked like less of a money grab by OOO and it may well have sunk nearly as many dubs indirectly via people buying dubs just to put on the exchange.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Dec 11, 2012 11:33:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
thylawrence2

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One "solution" (I put solution in quotes because no one thing can fix the entire economy) might be to halve the value of the doubloons, but in turn double the amount of doubloons that players buy with RL money for the same price. What I mean is: For example, say 10 U.S. dollars currently fetches 50 doubloons, and each doubloon goes for 2000 poe in-game. The change would make each doubloon worth 1000 poe in-game, but make 10 dollars fetch 100 doubloons. OOO could implement this change, perhaps with slight tweaking of current doubloon delivery rates (i.e. change 14 doubs for a jacket to ~20). The end result would be that people would be able to get their items for cheaper in-game prices, while OOO's revenue would remain constant. Additionally, demand for doubloons would go up because people would need more doubloons to buy the same items (assuming they tweak the delivery rates), causing doubloon prices' in-game rates to rise even after being slashed in half. Demand would also swell because people would be able to get things cheaper than they would be able to before the change, and therefore buy more doubs from the in-game exchange. As a result, people would find buying doubs with RL money more lucrative and buy even more, leading to a chain reaction that would bolster both OOO's RL revnue and the in-game economy. Now, this WOULD be balanced out by the many extra doubloons circulating in game due to the doubled influx, but consumption would potentially increase drastically to the point where doubloon inflation would not so noticeable or even overridden by the larger demand for doubloons.

This, combined with the ideas that Algol and bobjanova suggested, might solve the problems of too-expensive doubloons and OOO's revenue at once. doubloon hoarders, however, would have to have the foresight to sell before these plans caught momentum.

I put 2x doubloons as an example; perhaps different ratios could produce better results. At any rate, however, the worst thing OOO can do to the game right now is to put "taxes" on pillaging (and SMH), the core of the game.
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All about Tothemoonn! of the Emerald Ocean

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by thylawrence2 at Dec 12, 2012 12:01:05 AM]
[Dec 11, 2012 11:43:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
thylawrence2

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Sorry for the double post, but there's other issues I didn't address in the previous post. Many people suggested poe sinks; I believe these may negatively affect the game in its current state. Less poe = less commerce. This is explained easily: the less money you have, the less you spend. True, prices will go down with the poe, but they will not decrease at a regular nor necessarily quickly-corresponding rates. Furthermore, adding many poe sinks brings the issue of poe hoarders, who will hoard their current stocks of poe so as to be richer as the value of poe increases. When people hold on to their money, the economy collapses. Simple: if no one spends money, no one gets money. Then, those who have not hoarded their money end up with very little of it. The end result will be a terribly unbalanced economy with the super rich who will be able to control everything and a majority of players who will be even more hard pressed than they already are to afford the things that they want.
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All about Tothemoonn! of the Emerald Ocean

Artistic rendition of my face and upper body by the superbly skilled Xioch!
[Dec 12, 2012 12:11:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Appz

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I think in order to stabilize the economy and the dubloon price is obvious in my opinion. OOO needs to come up with a new idea to sink enough PoE to counteract the mass amounts being drawn out from SMH's. I'm not saying lower the payouts or anything like that, although that is not a bad idea but is a whole different topic in itself. All I'm saying is there needs to be a major poe or doubloon sink to counter all this poe coming in. I remember a while ago the OM's use to do Familiar Dub Auctions, this is not such a bad idea and I think this should implamented.

Short version: PoE and dubloons need to be sunk at a similar rate as they are coming in.
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Adolph on Emerald.
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[Dec 12, 2012 12:43:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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I was very disappointed that gold boxes were made pure dub sinks. I think the 25kPoE/box that they are on blue oceans would have been better for the game. It would have looked like less of a money grab by OOO and it may well have sunk nearly as many dubs indirectly via people buying dubs just to put on the exchange.

What he said!

As far as gold boxes go, I wouldn't mind them being changed from their current 2 month/12 dub cycle to something that changes regularly. One cycle, they're 25k. Next cycle, they're 12 dubs. Next cycle, they're something you get from pillaging-- random occurrence similar to getting kraken blood, except that the entire ship gets one instead of it going into the hold. Next cycle they're back to 25k. And so on.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Dec 12, 2012 5:24:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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