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Gascony



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Recently my crew found its captain banned. I won’t give details because I’m not looking to rehash the past, but to address future such instances. (Besides, I’m guessing most people who care know the specifics anyway.)

The crew governance was Autocratic. As a result, no one other than the captain can take certain actions (including changing crew governance). The effect of the ban is that no one who IS the captain can take those actions. Thus, it’s impossible for anyone to amend the articles, approve a merger, change flags, expel a member, etc.

OOO has said that, if the captain had a free account, it will purge in about six weeks, at which point the crew will automatically become Autocratic. Then the SO’s can run the crew. There are two problems with this answer. First, six weeks is a long time for limbo. In just two weeks so far, more than 100 people have left the crew, including several SO’s. There may be no one left to pick up the pieces. Second, the word in crew chat is that the captain had bought doubloons. In that case, the account will never purge and the crew can never be restored to normal operation.

It’s probably too late to do anything about this particular crew. Still, the next time a captain is banned, why should all the other crew members go through this kind of hassle? A captain’s banning should automatically change the crew politics to Autocratic. Then the SO’s could continue it that way or could elect a new captain and change the articles back to Oligarchic. The other pirates in the crew wouldn’t have to deal with this confusing situation.
[Nov 24, 2012 4:58:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Notsizzly

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Re: Effect of banning of captain Reply to this Post
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Recently my crew found its captain banned. I won?t give details because I?m not looking to rehash the past, but to address future such instances. (Besides, I?m guessing most people who care know the specifics anyway.)

The crew governance was Autocratic. As a result, no one other than the captain can take certain actions (including changing crew governance). The effect of the ban is that no one who IS the captain can take those actions. Thus, it?s impossible for anyone to amend the articles, approve a merger, change flags, expel a member, etc.

OOO has said that, if the captain had a free account, it will purge in about six weeks, at which point the crew will automatically become Autocratic. Then the SO?s can run the crew. There are two problems with this answer. First, six weeks is a long time for limbo. In just two weeks so far, more than 100 people have left the crew, including several SO?s. There may be no one left to pick up the pieces. Second, the word in crew chat is that the captain had bought doubloons. In that case, the account will never purge and the crew can never be restored to normal operation.

It?s probably too late to do anything about this particular crew. Still, the next time a captain is banned, why should all the other crew members go through this kind of hassle? A captain?s banning should automatically change the crew politics to Autocratic. Then the SO?s could continue it that way or could elect a new captain and change the articles back to Oligarchic. The other pirates in the crew wouldn?t have to deal with this confusing situation.


It is possible that the captain will be unbanned. In fact, it's even possible his ban was a mistake - and in that light, it would be unfair if the captain came back after doing nothing wrong and found that his crew was 'taken' from him during (even if it was one day).
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[Nov 24, 2012 5:47:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gascony



Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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Re: Effect of banning of captain Reply to this Post
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It is possible that the captain will be unbanned. In fact, it's even possible his ban was a mistake - and in that light, it would be unfair if the captain came back after doing nothing wrong and found that his crew was 'taken' from him during (even if it was one day).


A good point, but it could be handled by providing a short delay between the banning and the automatic change. That would give the banned captain a chance to appeal. Besides, you would think that the majority of the SO's would usually be on good terms with the captain. In most instances, they wouldn't jump to make the former captain a nonperson at the first opportunity.
[Nov 24, 2012 6:39:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Notsizzly

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Re: Effect of banning of captain Reply to this Post
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It is possible that the captain will be unbanned. In fact, it's even possible his ban was a mistake - and in that light, it would be unfair if the captain came back after doing nothing wrong and found that his crew was 'taken' from him during (even if it was one day).


A good point, but it could be handled by providing a short delay between the banning and the automatic change. That would give the banned captain a chance to appeal. Besides, you would think that the majority of the SO's would usually be on good terms with the captain. In most instances, they wouldn't jump to make the former captain a nonperson at the first opportunity.


What if the captain goes on a holiday, say for one month and during that has been banned - comes back, finds out has been banned, appeals, is unbanned because it was a mistake but since it has been such a long time as one month, his crew is gone?

Also, I can see a possible way to exploit this and cause harm to another player even if there would be a short delay (I'm going to assume short would be one week, two weeks-ish). Someone knowing you'd be away from your computer and the game, starting tomorrow, could set up a situation to have you banned today, right after you say 'goodbye, see you in one month' and since you won't be there to even know about this...see where I'm going?

Notice. I am in no way saying that OMs are blindly banning anyone and/or that by just complaining you can get anyone else banned but I see a possibility in theory. Yes, a long shot, but even though it may sound unbelievable, some people actually get kicks out of causing harm to other players. Sick or not, but they do and they seek chances for that, even in here :S.
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[Nov 24, 2012 6:51:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gascony



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Re: Effect of banning of captain Reply to this Post
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What if the captain goes on a holiday, say for one month and during that has been banned - comes back, finds out has been banned, appeals, is unbanned because it was a mistake but since it has been such a long time as one month, his crew is gone?


Based on my recent experience, I'd say that a captain in that situation will find his crew is gone whether or not there's been an automatic change in crew governance. With the crew in limbo, most of its active members will have moved to other crews. The captain will have only the satisfaction of retaining control over the crew name and any other assets.

By contrast, if the SO's have been empowered to take over, they could keep the crew operating. Then, when captain comes back from vacation and gets unbanned, they could restore him to his position.

I think that scenario is more likely than the combination you envision: a lengthy but innocent absence plus a mistaken (or malicious) banning attempt plus a bad decision by the OM's in imposing the ban plus a bunch of SO's who hate the former captain and take advantage of the situation to oust him.

By contrast, a plain old everyday ban, possibly with an unsuccessful petition for unbanning, seems like a more probable occurrence. Under the current rule, that's the situation that creates the problem for everyone else in the crew.
[Nov 24, 2012 7:29:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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Re: Effect of banning of captain Reply to this Post
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It used to be that if the Captain went dormant then the SOs had a chance to mutiny by becoming Oligarchic. But a code change was made in March and this is no longer the case.

The bottom line is that Three Rings made an executive decision here. They want your doubloons and they want more new crews created rather than us reusing perfectly good existing crews. Perhaps the old way generated complaints and exploits like Sizzly has illustrated. Perhaps it caused too much administrative headache for Three Rings and they decided to take the easy way out.

I am sorry for your situation, but this is a design decision that originated from on high, so I doubt that there is much chance of reversing it now.
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[Nov 24, 2012 8:17:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Vorky

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Re: Effect of banning of captain Reply to this Post
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I think the solution is rather simple.

If the captain does want to grant the ability for his SO's to take over his crew in the event he can't log in anymore for any reason (including being banned), then he should make his crew politics Oligarchic in the first place.
[Nov 26, 2012 3:24:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
thylawrence2

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Re: Effect of banning of captain Reply to this Post
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Yes, but in doing so he would also sacrifice regular autonomous control of the crew ... customization of crew politics could easily solve these problems but it seems to be a step that OOO has not been willing to take. (i.e. change setting to "Autocratic (but in the case of captain dormancy/ban auto-revert to oligarchic).
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by thylawrence2 at Nov 26, 2012 6:23:01 PM]
[Nov 26, 2012 6:22:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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