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GreatBob

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An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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Dear OOO,

There have been many times in the past where questions have been asked of your plans for subscription oceans, and if you were interested in their longevity. These have been addressed with replies of "We are committed to subscription oceans", yet the state of Cerulean blatantly contradicts that.

So, I ask: If you are truly committed to Cerulean, why are your channelling most new players to doubloon oceans?

Taken directly from deployment.properties in config.jar:

 
## The new distribution configuration syntax - we'll add em now so they're ready when we update.
# INIT WEIGHTS CER MER EME OPA JAD
initoceanweights = 1, 3, 3, 0, 0
initoceanweights.de = 0, 0, 0, 1, 0
initoceanweights.es = 0, 0, 0, 0, 1

# Miniclip affiliate
initoceanweights.30 = 0, 1, 1, 0, 0

# Steam
initoceanweights.229 = 0, 1, 1, 0, 0


To sum it up, if someone simply downloads the client, they have a 1/7 chance of Cerulean, and a 3/7 chance per doubloon ocean. If they come from Miniclip or Steam, they have a 50/50 chance of either doubloon ocean, and no chance of Cerulean.

Please, give Cerulean a chance.


Yours faithfully,
Penguinpaste, a six year paying subscriber.
----------------------------------------
Penguinpaste, SO of Polaris, Obsidian. Dark side.


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[Jun 2, 2012 8:02:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
whatthejish

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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:0
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Dionysos, Cobalt and Obsidian
[Jun 2, 2012 10:57:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SeaDogPete

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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I think this only serves to confirm the suspicions of many.

If you think about all the additions made to the game over the last few years - they serve only to make money via the doubloon system. LE ships, etc - if people want them "now" on the dub oceans they can more or less pay for them instantly. Meanwhile, here on the sub ocean we have to either part with PoE we have earnt, or go out and earn more to pay for these shiny things. We simply aren't a quick cash cow for OOO. It's been discussed many times before how we have become the "poor relatives". Sadly OOO won't be up front and honest about it - and here we are just a short while after the ocean mergers with Cerulean looking like Cobalt did about a year ago from a number of pirates online perspective.

I don't expect OOO to change anything, for the short term it makes sense financially for them to drive people to dub oceans - long term they are actually shooting themselves in the foot and killing the game imho. That said - I spent two years on the dub oceans and have earnt enough to dubscribe for at least the next cpl of years without having paid a penny (or cent..) to OOO. I am aware there are successful crews over there doing exactly that too. A certain website (that I won't mention) allows the purchase of PoE or Dubs in large amounts - outside of OOO control ~ some use it on the sub ocean too (I think we know who most of these are..) and that will eventually kill off the game for the dub oceans too as OOO seemingly make no attempt to stop it or take it seriously.

It's all fairly bleak - I for one would like an ocean that is how it was about 5 years ago - pre- SMH, pre- everyone and their pet having a familiar, ships that actually sunk when you sunk them, more interest in developing more puzzles rather than making fancy versions of material objects to purchase, I could go on... but am reliably informed this is not possible and not going to happen. So we are stuck with what OOO deals us I am afraid, and as subscribers we don't have very good cards...
----------------------------------------
~ Seadogpete ~

Captain of Red Alert
King of Kismet

On several oceans..but mainly Cerulean
[Jun 2, 2012 12:30:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Meikever

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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There are several ppl that agree with me, IT'S NOT UP TO OOO TO HELP US, IT'S UP TO US.

Several ppl have been whinning for a merge to happen. Cause if it would happen, the ocean would be active again. 200 ppl from Cobalt + 300 ppl from Midnight = 500 ppl on Cerulean. Where did those ppl go?

All you guys do is complain about how the ocean is dying. There have been several threads where ppl say that we can bring it back alive, but no... to some (most) of you it's up to the designers. You rather see this ocean fail and point fingers at the designers instead of helping out and see it stay alive. It must feel so good to be able to point your finger at them, right?

I'm sure they care, just as much as they cared for Crimson Ocean.
What do you think you'll achieve with your post?
A good option would be:
place all our pirates to dub ocean, place a tax on whatever we're taking with us... so that we paid as much for our stuff on cerulean as others did on dub oceans. (e.g.: a sloop on meridian = 36k, you want to transfer a sloop to that ocean, pay (36k - 12k) 24k on top and we can do that for you). If you don't have the poe, you can buy "transfer-poe" for money.

We would be happy cause we would be on an active ocean and the designers would be happy cause they would make money.

How many of you would like that idea? (yes, I'm being sarcastic)


Kind regards,
Meikever
----------------------------------------
MidOrAfk on the one and only ocean.
[Jun 2, 2012 1:19:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mari_

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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Meikeiver, its rather hard to increase a population when the foot traffic isn't coming through the ocean.

Think that is the point being made here.
----------------------------------------
Calamarie - now also in Obsidian flavour!
Dignity - Emerald

"Always remember... Rumours are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots."

The Shadow is in my very core ;)
[Jun 2, 2012 1:30:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Meikever

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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[quote]Meikeiver, its rather hard to increase a population when the foot traffic isn't coming through the ocean.[quote]

And what are we doing to keep the greenies? (besides asking the designers for free lanties or a try out sub)


Kind regards,
Meikever
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MidOrAfk on the one and only ocean.
[Jun 2, 2012 2:03:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
JennyBrie

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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Meikeiver, its rather hard to increase a population when the foot traffic isn't coming through the ocean.


And what are we doing to keep the greenies? (besides asking the designers for free lanties or a try out sub)


Kind regards,
Meikever

The point is that greenies aren't being sent here to give us the opportunity to keep them.
[Jun 2, 2012 2:11:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Meikever

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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What do you expect, to log on and see 20 greenies at the dock of your island?

There are new ppl on this game and you may not be able to find them, others are. For example, I came across a new crew named Davey Jones' Rockers. The captain has been playing this game for 5 months, not the best stats, but good enough to make his own crew. He'll find greenies and they will join his crew.

Maybe it's some kind of "bug" in this game that attracts new ppl to this game and its "greenie" captains.

In a few months, that crew may hold 20 new ppl or more, if he plays the game right. And over time, they might all quit because of a lack of proper training.
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MidOrAfk on the one and only ocean.
[Jun 2, 2012 5:38:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Smartysmoker

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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that is why I like my crews name, For Noobs, I would like to this that this a way to kinda say new folks job here because of what we try to do for new folks

and on the main topic of this thread...
I believe that this set up of sending greenies to what ocean has been basically the same for about 6 years. Only reason I am on a sub ocean is because I learned quickly how much a pain dub oceans are. And I really think it should be a one to one ratio between sub oceans and dub oceans to where they send greenies. This will significantly help our ocean numbers in a few months time (if those new pirates find good crews).
----------------------------------------
Happyjoey Cerulean (Cobalt native),
Captain of "For Noobs" (The Best Crew in the Ocean) =p,
and King of "Knee Deep"
[Jun 2, 2012 6:06:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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Taken directly from deployment.properties in config.jar:

Wow.

Thanks for bring that to our attention.

Yes, OOO has officially given up on subscriptions. I wish OOO had actually come out and told us that.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Jun 2, 2012 8:03:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Roleni

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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That's ridiculous. Especially given the number of miniclip folks that populated Midnight before doubloon oceans even existed.

What's wrong with a proper 1,1,1 distribution, across the board?


(Edit: I would have put this in Global Parley. :P)
----------------------------------------
Thalatta & others

Hera tells ye, "You got me so flustered by the spanking, I booched my chat response!"
Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!"
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Roleni at Jun 2, 2012 10:33:12 PM]
[Jun 2, 2012 10:30:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Stephensam

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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What's wrong with a proper 1,1,1 distribution, across the board?

I think what is wrong is that OOO would rather put new pirates on oceans with a higher retention rate. If you start playing on Cerulean and then you realize to do a lot of stuff you have to pay real money, some would rather quit or move oceans. On the doubloon oceans, the idea of "free" flies quite easily.
----------------------------------------
Stevensam -Cobalt Native, founder and host of The PoE is Right. Creator of Lime Day.
[Jun 2, 2012 10:55:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Stevensam [Link]  Go to top 
randomact

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I think there should be something that pops up when you first log on that gives a small description of the oceans you have a choice between. Something so that people can make an informed decision about the type of ocean they want to play.
----------------------------------------
Loathe/Forever.

Cremate tells ye, "i think i just broke my hymen"
[Jun 2, 2012 11:04:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Minsiem

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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What's wrong with a proper 1,1,1 distribution, across the board?

I think what is wrong is that OOO would rather put new pirates on oceans with a higher retention rate. If you start playing on Cerulean and then you realize to do a lot of stuff you have to pay real money, some would rather quit or move oceans. On the doubloon oceans, the idea of "free" flies quite easily.

But one out of seven? I guess zero would be total abandonment. So thanks for not totally abandoning us, OOO.

I like italics today.


Edit:
 
I think there should be something that pops up when you first log on that gives a small description of the oceans you have a choice between. Something so that people can make an informed decision about the type of ocean they want to play.

I like that idea.
----------------------------------------
Minsiem, Like A Fox
Nimbelina, Any Minute Now

I believe in a Higher Purple!

Erfan flag officer chats, "let's cade a popular forage island"

----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Minsiem at Jun 2, 2012 11:09:01 PM]
[Jun 2, 2012 11:08:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Roleni

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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What's wrong with a proper 1,1,1 distribution, across the board?

I think what is wrong is that OOO would rather put new pirates on oceans with a higher retention rate. If you start playing on Cerulean and then you realize to do a lot of stuff you have to pay real money, some would rather quit or move oceans. On the doubloon oceans, the idea of "free" flies quite easily.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy when the sub ocean gets fewer players. Besides, retention rate hasn't always been an issue on sub oceans, and I'm quite certain that doubloon oceans have higher turnover rates.
----------------------------------------
Thalatta & others

Hera tells ye, "You got me so flustered by the spanking, I booched my chat response!"
Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!"
[Jun 3, 2012 12:03:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
GreatBob

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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In looking for ringer quotes about their commitment to subscription oceans, I found a rather interesting thread in Cobalt parley. I have read the first half or so, and its scary how many of the outrageous predictions have come true, especially in this post. Note, there is a post from Cleaver a couple above it.

I am all for players making their own decision about ocean type. As a matter of fact, I would like to see new players forced to make their own decision. Give them a brief survey as to their attitude towards payments, and base the outcome on that. If they end up with subscription they go to Cerulean, if they end up with Doubloon they are put on either Meridian or Emerald. Of course, after the survey they would need to be presented with a summary of the types and still be given the right to choose. After all:
Cleaver wrote: 
Choice prevails!

----------------------------------------
Penguinpaste, SO of Polaris, Obsidian. Dark side.


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[Jun 3, 2012 12:19:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Stephensam

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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I think there should be something that pops up when you first log on that gives a small description of the oceans you have a choice between. Something so that people can make an informed decision about the type of ocean they want to play.

I too like this idea.
----------------------------------------
Stevensam -Cobalt Native, founder and host of The PoE is Right. Creator of Lime Day.
[Jun 3, 2012 1:22:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Stevensam [Link]  Go to top 
marundel

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I spawned on Cobalt coming in from miniclip in 2007. Had I spawned on a doubloon ocean, I would have puttered around for a couple weeks and never logged in again. I absolutely abhor "pay as you go" because you invariably wind up paying way too much real money to get the features you want; and casual players wind up with a grind for the "play free" option of buying credits with in-game money. The doubloon model is the model in place for most FB games, and is the #1 reason why I cease playing any of those games after just a week or two - about the time I am at a level where I either pay real money or fall behind my contemporaries and become a resource farm.

For a flat fee sub, I get every game feature whether I am a casual player or a hard-core player with no life. I never have to worry when I log in if I am going to be wasting time tapping into PayPal or entering a credit card... I just log in and play. This is one of the reasons I also subscribe to another pirate game that charges $20 more than Y!PP - it's not the cost... it's the features.

The inequitable distribution of new players explains a lot of things... like why I've had my greeter duty on for over a year and only gotten one request for assistance; like why I haven't seen a greenie jobber on any of our crew pillages in several months; like why the ocean population has dwindled back down below 200. OOO, I've been handing you on average $500 a year for 4-5 years for the subs on all my accounts. I figure that makes me worth more than the average doub player... probably more than two average doub players. How about a little respect for maintaining my chosen server model?
----------------------------------------
Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean
Prince, Super Awesomeness
SO, Boochin' Drunks

Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge
[Jun 3, 2012 10:18:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thehomebrewstore.com    meadbrewer [Link]  Go to top 
moonmaiden79

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I think that an explanation of the two types of oceans would be beneficial to the new players as well. But given that option who wouldn't choose the "free" one? I personally don't think the distribution levels are unfair. They did attempt to give blue oceans a fair level of greenies years ago- obviously it didn't prove fruitful. Not many players have the patience or the time to train greenies properly anymore. And if our overall population levels are this much lower does it make sense to put more new players who will need guidance here?



One of the things that I think was the most damaging to our blue ocean culture is the auto-divi. Back when you had to stay until port to get your fair cut, (or get it later,) there was a much stronger sense of community. I don't think that green oceans were as affected by this change for some reason. I remember specific players running war brig pillages regularly and that they were a blast, because everyone stayed. I know they have since adjusted it from 75% to 50% but still that lack of reinforcement to stay the whole time has definitely affected the way that new players perceive the pillage voyages. I don't want to say that the guilt trip is a better way to go, but definitely if you know you're not going to get anything out of hopping off early you might want to stay and help the other players longer and learn how to play better.
----------------------------------------
Stabatha- Tarts of Doom, Obsidian
[Jun 3, 2012 10:27:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dexla

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Pizzahutpete wrote: 
OOO, I've been handing you on average $500 a year for 4-5 years for the subs on all my accounts. I figure that makes me worth more than the average doub player... probably more than two average doub players.

I would not underestimate the purchasing power of the dub ocean players.
While the green oceans do offer the ability to play for free, I believe there are far more green-ocean players spending just as much, if not considerably more than that on a yearly basis. Look at their blockades, the money they are willing to spend on a familiar, or the number of players wearing the mystery-box colored clothing every other month at the Inn. While some will say they made their fortune pokering, large chunks of that poe got into their system through someone purchasing dubs with real cash, and lots of it.
----------------------------------------
Dexla d'Midnight
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Dexla at Jun 3, 2012 11:08:36 AM]
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marundel

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Pizzahutpete wrote: 
OOO, I've been handing you on average $500 a year for 4-5 years for the subs on all my accounts. I figure that makes me worth more than the average doub player... probably more than two average doub players.

I would not underestimate the purchasing power of the dub ocean players.
While the green oceans do offer the ability to play for free, I believe there are far more green-ocean players spending just as much, if not considerably more than that on a yearly basis. Look at their blockades, the money they are willing to spend on a familiar, or the number of players wearing the mystery-box colored clothing every other month at the Inn. While some will say they made their fortune pokering, large chunks of that poe got into their system through someone purchasing dubs with real cash, and lots of it.

I don't doubt there are more prolific players on green oceans just as there likely are on the blue ocean. That's why I used the term "average" as opposed to "any"
----------------------------------------
Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean
Prince, Super Awesomeness
SO, Boochin' Drunks

Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge
[Jun 3, 2012 1:18:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thehomebrewstore.com    meadbrewer [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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But one out of seven?

Just to be clear, it is *NOT* one out of seven greenies that get sent to cerulean. At least on OOO's Spiral Knights, are large percentage of new players (50%?) come from steam, and all steam/miniclip players get sent to dub oceans. The percent of greenies sent our way is probably closer to 10%, and maybe closer to 5%.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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randomact

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I guess on Steam it's probably being advertised as free to play, meaning it wouldn't make all that much sense to send someone to a subscription ocean... but I really do think that new players should be informed about the different oceans. I know I never knew about other oceans until someone else mentioned it and I was like... what?
----------------------------------------
Loathe/Forever.

Cremate tells ye, "i think i just broke my hymen"
[Jun 3, 2012 4:00:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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I guess on Steam it's probably being advertised as free to play, meaning it wouldn't make all that much sense to send someone to a subscription ocean...

OOO advertises their Spiral Knights on steam and there are important parts of the game that can only be unlocked by sending OOO real money. Since the SK release, OOO has actually shifted their model more toward subscriptions than the dub model. Subscription oceans are "free to play", they are just really limited.

To be honest, OOO is doing greenies a disservice by sending any of the to Cerulean, since there is no way they will get a good game play on an ocean that OOO intends to let die.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Jun 3, 2012 4:17:25 PM]
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Smartysmoker

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I actually have a crew member from steam they decided that sub ocean were better =)
----------------------------------------
Happyjoey Cerulean (Cobalt native),
Captain of "For Noobs" (The Best Crew in the Ocean) =p,
and King of "Knee Deep"
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marundel

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Sub is free to play, as long as you don't mind doing nothing but pillaging, free day crafting and carousing, and wearing limited clothes and carrying limited weapons. It doesn't prevent you from playing in blockades or flotillas, and doesn't prevent you from playing on pillages with special missions - just not SMH. To be honest, had I not needed a sub to skipper my own ships, I likely never would have subbed at all.
----------------------------------------
Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean
Prince, Super Awesomeness
SO, Boochin' Drunks

Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge
[Jun 3, 2012 7:09:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thehomebrewstore.com    meadbrewer [Link]  Go to top 
randomact

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From the Steam website wrote: 
Free to Play!: Puzzle Pirates is free to play, no subscription is required to enjoy everything the game has to offer!
There we go, it's being marketed as free to play, as in being able to access all game content. I don't really agree with what they're doing, as I enjoy spending some time on Cerulean, but I guess there's the reason all Steam players are sent to doubloon oceans.
----------------------------------------
Loathe/Forever.

Cremate tells ye, "i think i just broke my hymen"
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LJAmethyst

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I chose a doubloon ocean because I was convinced by the "play for free" line, and I was poor. It was out of the question to afford $15 a month for entertainment, I could barely feed myself. And I somewhat expected to be a casual player who didn't necessarily log in every day.

But as it turns out, I have been a hardcore player for 5 and a half years. I've logged in every day and chewed through a lot of badges. Now my financial position is a little better, and I subscribe to Netflix instead. I buy doubloons, but sporadically in small packages. I quit playing Ice mostly because it was too expensive to buy doubloons every month.

In hindsight, it might have saved me a lot of aggravation to be a subscriber instead. But I would certainly miss the ability to get ahead when I can afford it, by purchasing doubloons with cash. I certainly haven't used it to amass wealth, but I've paid for badges and ships with real money, when that option wouldn't have been available to a subscriber.

And as far as the social aspect of the game goes, there were more doublooners than subscribers even when I started in 2006. The hand writing on the wall was already there. I chose Sage and in so doing, I made a lot of friends who stayed, and a lot of friends who didn't, but Emerald still has a strong population base, so in hindsight I chose exactly right for my situation.
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Retired as of August 2015.
2 Timothy 4:7
[Jun 3, 2012 8:09:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Roleni

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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Smaller population doesn't automatically equate with "writing on the wall", though - sometimes certain kinds of servers are less popular (such as PVP in a game that is not specifically designed for it, or role-playing), but still have very dedicated players (role-players are a very good example here). There are plenty of subscribers that have zero interest in moving to a doubloon ocean, and plenty of doubloon players that would play if only a subscription option were available.

It's pretty clear that OOO wants to funnel players to doubloon oceans, and it seems that the motivation is more than just player retention or otherwise population-based. More greenies *could* be sent to subscription oceans, and options *could* be presented - but they aren't. That form of low population is far more damaging than simply a smaller core of dedicated players.
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[Jun 3, 2012 10:02:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: An open letter to OOO Reply to this Post
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Smaller population doesn't automatically equate with "writing on the wall", {But, OOO sending few greenies here causes a} form of low population is far more damaging than simply a smaller core of dedicated players.

Yes, you are right on both points. For example, ice used to have a small dedicated population that worked better than you might expected. I can't see OOO outright eliminating cerulean if it stays at least at the jade/opal population levels, if not the crimson population levels, but I can't see OOO doing any significant work to fix problems that are specific to subscription oceans.

Still, YPP already has a "pyramid scheme" problem where it depends heavily on lots of new players entering the game so that the bnavver/jobber ratio doesn't get too bad. People whose play style depend on new players, people trying to build new crews/flags, shopkeepers who will sell more different stuff to new players rather than people who already have one of everything. people who want to break into the large ship parts of the game, etc., all of them will find life hard on an ever-decreasing ocean. Without lots of greenies, the scoring curve will get worse and worse, etc. At least ice was a small ocean, cerulean has way too may islands colonized.


Now, one thing I'm curious about is when did this change happen? I've checked my backups, but apparently I exclude the YPP stuff since I could always download it again. Considering the huge population drop cobalt had last year, this greenie spawn imbalance may have been around for quite a while.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Jun 4, 2012 4:44:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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