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Ilyarri

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PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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When the notice board is busy, job offers cycle on and off it at random. In other words, when someone pulls up the notice board, they do not see *all* job offers, but a random subset. This was confirmed to me by an OM.

On the surface, this appears to be a great idea to distribute jobbers between available ships.

Here's the problem. 99% of YPP players are not aware of this feature, and thus regard the notice board as immutable proof of "I had my job offer up first". This leads to a VERY great deal of unnecessary acrimony between navvers (mostly SMH runners). I've seen bounties posted on navvers over this issue, wars declared, alliances broken, and a great deal of completely unnecessary bad blood.

I am respectfully requesting that this feature be removed. I feel this will provide a small but measurable beneficial effect to the social aspect of the gameplay.
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Ilyarri on HunterEmerald
SO of Queen's Realm
Prince of The Swarm
[May 26, 2012 9:12:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lotsofgoats

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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I've seen bounties posted on navvers over this issue, wars declared, alliances broken, and a great deal of completely unnecessary bad blood.

This sounds like a great feature.
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[May 26, 2012 9:20:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
marundel

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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It'd be nice if the "first come first served concept were extended to include all job offers regardless of the crew cut and divvy method as well. That would let some of the 85%/Even pillages get to the top of the board every now and then.
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Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean
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Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge
[May 26, 2012 12:32:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thehomebrewstore.com    meadbrewer [Link]  Go to top 
bailet

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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When the notice board is busy, job offers cycle on and off it at random. In other words, when someone pulls up the notice board, they do not see *all* job offers, but a random subset. This was confirmed to me by an OM.

On the surface, this appears to be a great idea to distribute jobbers between available ships.

Here's the problem. 99% of YPP players are not aware of this feature, and thus regard the notice board as immutable proof of "I had my job offer up first". This leads to a VERY great deal of unnecessary acrimony between navvers (mostly SMH runners). I've seen bounties posted on navvers over this issue, wars declared, alliances broken, and a great deal of completely unnecessary bad blood.

I am respectfully requesting that this feature be removed. I feel this will provide a small but measurable beneficial effect to the social aspect of the gameplay.


+1
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OM MESSAGE: Complaining the on-duty OM will only result in another flurry of eggs being sent out into the YPP world. Go #TeamPurple!
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[May 26, 2012 3:07:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SchwaWarrior

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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Nah. I think it's fine the way it is. But I wouldn't mind it if they added that information publically, i.e. when the Notice Board was full there would be a short note or an icon nearby indicating "Arr, this place be jumpin'!" or whatever, like, you know? And stuff?

Also, alliances broken over something so STUPID isn't the fault of the feature, it's the fault of people being stupid, sorry to say it. It's not much different than calling someone who beat you at SF a "lucker" or blaming "no breakers" for lack of skill. Both make you look equally immature and like a poor sport, and I say Respect --; to anyone who would break a flag alliance or declare a bounty against someone for this of all things. Jesus Chribbsnuggets.
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*Schwzala* (formerly Schwa)
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[May 26, 2012 5:15:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lilcracker

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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i havent experienced this.... sometimes when i load an sMH i log on an alt to keep an eye on the notice board and all the job offers for SMhs are there all the time, they don't seem to cycle... unless the person takes the job offer down... same thing with pillages, if i put a job offer up it is shown on the notice board... and is seen by everyone. yes ive tested this xD.

maybe yer saying that job offers with the same cut offer (for example 90% JD) cycle on placement (higher or lower) on the NB...and idk about that... but all the offers that are posted seem to stay there till they are taken off, (or the ship goes into battle).
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Meridian - Minigun

Emerald - Nightbear
[May 26, 2012 5:51:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
gangrel_27

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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I agree... and this is mainly for the new crews that have just started out and are trying to make a name for themselves. I myself have tried to start a crew twice on Hunter Ocean a few years ago and fail to get anywhere with it. Its kind of hard to get jobbers if your post isnt showing up on the NB and if you are not getting jobbers... chances are you are not getting any new crew mates. Even now its hard to get jobbers and it wont get any easier if they dont know you're taking a ship out.
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[May 26, 2012 8:54:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.google.com    Gangrel_27 [Link]  Go to top 
Queenbeez

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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I wouldn't mind it if they added that information publically, i.e. when the Notice Board was full there would be a short note or an icon nearby indicating "Arr, this place be jumpin'!" or whatever

I believe this is a good idea as I know for a fact a SMH has been bumped off the notice board. I like to job with people I know if I can, and if there is a possibility they may be on the board I'd like to be aware of it.
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Queenbeez

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[May 26, 2012 9:20:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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I think it should certainly be more obvious that this is happening. It should also operate separately for each voyage type: I've had a flotilla hopping on and off the board even though I was the only person jobbing for one because of the volume of pillage offers.
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[May 27, 2012 3:43:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nooblar

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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Wasn't this in game design?
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[May 27, 2012 6:04:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dwizzles

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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An equally big problem is how the NB is ranked based on jobber cut, which has lead to people continually one-upping each other's percentages to be ranked number one.
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[May 27, 2012 7:46:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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An equally big problem is how the NB is ranked based on jobber cut, which has lead to people continually one-upping each other's percentages to be ranked number one.

A free market for jobbers causing competition is somehow bad? It sure seems like competition has helped reduce the imbalance of the bnavver/jobber ratio some what. The number of "there aren't enough jobbers" threads has dropped from several per week to several per month.
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[May 27, 2012 8:01:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lordchicken9

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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An equally big problem is how the NB is ranked based on jobber cut, which has lead to people continually one-upping each other's percentages to be ranked number one.

I like that :o why should an officer's club guy be at the top >.< and personally I choose my pillies based on the difficulty of the pilly not the cut unless it's horrible :x
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Chickenlord on Emerald

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[May 27, 2012 2:22:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dwizzles

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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So basically, you have Cpnjaksprrow at the top of the notice board at 95% Jobber's Delight. He's Expert/distinguished bnav. He leaves port with on a war brig with 7 people, gets maxed first battle, and it's all downhill from that point.

The 4 greenies on board generally don't have fun being yelled at and blamed for getting maxed like that, even though they had nothing to do with it. They don't come back to the game.

Cpnjaksprrow loses poe on the pillage time after time, and eventually quits pillaging and goes and jobs on a SMH or quits the game.

The naver/jobber ratio is a huge problem, and I guess the current NB format could be argued to help solve that, but does it really? If it does, most of the time we seem to be sacrificing quality and profitability so Johnny can nav something that is out of his reach. I've ran a greenie crew for years, and I've helped a lot of people learn how to play the game to the best of my abilities, but if you don't have basic people skills or basic nav talent, you have no business loading certain ships or automatically being at the top of the noticeboard just because you choose to run a pillage at loss.

This was awfully argued, and I'll probably put together a bigger argument eventually, but I just got off work, today is my birthday, and I'm about to get zooted.
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[May 27, 2012 5:38:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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So basically, you have Cpnjaksprrow at the top of the notice board at 95% Jobber's Delight. He's Expert/distinguished bnav.

Distinguished standing means that they are ranked higher than at least 50% of all bnavvers that have played the puzzle in the last 10 days, and maybe as much as 65%.

Mind you, you can find very long threads on GD about how badly broken the bnav scoring is. Worse, players can't even seem to agree on *what* the bnav scoring should measure. Sorting by bnav standing would likely cause a lot of screaming.

 
Cpnjaksprrow loses poe on the pillage time after time, and eventually quits pillaging and goes and jobs on a SMH or quits the game.

Bad bnavvers giving up happens a lot faster when they are 95% jobber's delight than before the NB change when the crew cut was not shown and 80% even was common.

 
The naver/jobber ratio is a huge problem, and I guess the current NB format could be argued to help solve that, but does it really? If it does, most of the time we seem to be sacrificing quality and profitability so Johnny can nav something that is out of his reach.

IMHO, there are a lot of problems with the bnav puzzle. For a very long time, it was really easy to make more PoE being a bad bnavver than a good jobber, leading to people running pillages, not because they love the puzzle or want to provide fun for jobbers, but just to get more PoE that way. Showing the crew cut on the NB has helped cut out those bnavvers, marginally improving the bnavver to jobber ratio.

There are a whole bunch of other problems though.

* Someone who enjoys bnavving can't easily do it without a bunch of jobbers. Even if that person doesn't really care about PoE and is feeling ant-social, they are forced to have jobbers to have much fun at all. More unskilled swabbies that take their cut of the booty *before* the crew cut (like swabbies currently do) would help here.

* Learning to bnav is hard. The navy doesn't allow anyone else on the ship to teach you the ropes. The navy also doesn't walk you through the stocking and booty division. More unskilled swabbies would let one or two crew mates teach a new officer without making it unfun for jobbers. Again, swabbies get their cut of the booty before the crew cut, so having them doesn't let the bnavver earn more, it just makes the game less dependent on having many more jobbers than bnavvers.

* Waiting for jobbers is really really really not fun. More unskilled swabbies would let people leave port earlier and keep pillages from collapsing if too many jobbers leave.

* PvP is usually not-fun for at least one of the ships and arranged PvPs are too much of a pain. For the jobbers, the battles is usually very long and very poor pay. Some sort of bnav parlor table would be great for this. You could even have tournaments.

* There isn't a way to practice blockading with full sized ships.

* Things like atlantis and flotillas favor large ships. A WF has a bnavver to jobber ratio a factor of 10 worse than a sloop. A WF also earns the bnavver more PoE since double large cb isn't 10 times as expensive as a single small cb. Doing things to even out the payout between large and small ships would improve the bnavver to jobber ratio.

All in all, the problem with the NB not showing all ships, as the OP is complaining about, is *WAY* down the list of things I would like to see OOO working on.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[May 27, 2012 6:22:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ilyarri

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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All in all, the problem with the NB not showing all ships, as the OP is complaining about, is *WAY* down the list of things I would like to see OOO working on.


You raise some valid points. On the other hand, fixing the other issues you quoted would for the most part require rethinking the way the game works and/or the basic philosophy behind it. Even the simplest of your suggestions (more unskilled swabbies, which I've seen before in various places) would require some serious thinking on the part of the devs.

My suggestion, on the other hand, would (IMO) be a *trivial* coding fix, and won't affect game balance at all since most people already assume the NB functions that way.

Do I think it'll get fixed anytime soon? Frankly, I'm not sanguine. But at least this post is out here to educate the players about the way the NB really works, which in and of itself might meet some of my goal.
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Ilyarri on HunterEmerald
SO of Queen's Realm
Prince of The Swarm
[May 28, 2012 11:20:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lilcracker

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Re: PETITION: please remove the overjobbing "feature". Reply to this Post
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* Learning to bnav is hard. The navy doesn't allow anyone else on the ship to teach you the ropes. The navy also doesn't walk you through the stocking and booty division. More unskilled swabbies would let one or two crew mates teach a new officer without making it unfun for jobbers. Again, swabbies get their cut of the booty before the crew cut, so having them doesn't let the bnavver earn more, it just makes the game less dependent on having many more jobbers than bnavvers.


i think there are only 2 ways of effectively teaching bnav atm.

1. have the officer in training watch you bnmav and explain to them exactly why you are making each move... afterall, bnav is situational... there is no "only way out" (or at least very rarely), so making the person understand exactly why they should do something in a certain situation is key for them to build their skill in bnav.

2. there is a site called "gamegardens.com" that OOO made, and it has a version of the bnav puzzle where people may pvp.

here you can show key positions at will, to enact option #1. rather than waiting for them to come when you are bnaving a bot.

i would suggest using option#2 because it is more flexible, but both options will work for a good bnav lesson.

 
* There isn't a way to practice blockading with full sized ships.


there is a website called "Whirled" aso run by OOO. it has a blockade simulator that is a good practicing tool. you can use WFs aswell, with different jobber skill levels.


 
* Things like atlantis and flotillas favor large ships. A WF has a bnavver to jobber ratio a factor of 10 worse than a sloop. A WF also earns the bnavver more PoE since double large cb isn't 10 times as expensive as a single small cb. Doing things to even out the payout between large and small ships would improve the bnavver to jobber ratio.



navvers make a lot in atlantis because they are risking a ship... therefore are entitled to the VO... which tends to hold a lot of booty.
one option would be to lower the ammount of booty produced from atlantis... (especially cits, 300k booty per cit is a bit much xD)

fotillas make more with WFs because it simply takes SO long for sloops to sink anything in it.. while WFs may kill at will because of their stronger hull and firepower.
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