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wokbok117



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Re: Dub price whine thread Reply to this Post
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Actually, yes. The people who buy PoE from PoEfarmers have less incentive to do so, since they can get more for their money using the in-game doubloon exchange, without the risk of being banned.

You are assuming that the price of PoE via third party sites don't adjust also.

Being banned is just one risk of buying via third parties, being ripped off, having to find/understand the other websites, and spending the time to find the other party in-game are other reasons. To the person selling PoE via third party sites, there is nothing comparable in-game to getting RL money.

I suspect the ratio of in-game PoE per $ and third-party PoE per $ will remain about the same and stuff like gold boxes will have no long term effect.


They'll just keep increasing dub sinks duh! Next up, maroon boxes! Outpace the botters! Also, maroon boxes have unique minime familiars that match your pirate at time of opening!

-Wok
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wokbok117 at Apr 7, 2012 3:38:24 PM]
[Apr 7, 2012 3:37:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karnisov

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wokbok117 wrote: 
You all don't get it! OOOs had to find a way to stop botters from botting and increasing the PoE earned from selling a dub makes it most cost efficient to buy from them. Don't you see it! The most logical solution to the botting and PoE selling problem is to double dub costs on the exchange!

-Wok


If this is OOO solution to the botter problem, it is a very poor solution because it kills the game for the new and/or casual player. Twice as much grind (or more) for the same stuff will hurt player retention and in the long term will exacerbate problems loading voyages due to lack of players.

The prices on the exchange won't drop much because the Dub market will be taking a punch in the gut every other month. As long as they keep changing up the rewards the lemmings will keep buying the boxes.
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Karnisov
flinging poo on the forums because its more fun than playing your broken game
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Karnisov at Apr 7, 2012 5:05:44 PM]
[Apr 7, 2012 5:05:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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{high dub exchange rate} kills the game for the new and/or casual player. Twice as much grind (or more) for the same stuff will hurt player retention and in the long term will exacerbate problems loading voyages due to lack of players.

Well, we, as players, don't really have much data on how much the dub<->PoE exchange rate impacts player retention and, more importantly, OOO's bottom line.

Even if dubs were 4kPoE, YPP would be *much* easer on new players than Spiral Knights is on their crown to CE exchange. The Spiral Knights exchange rate would need to be cut by a factor of 2, maybe 3, before it would be in line with 4k dubs. And yet, OOO has done as much to drive up SK's exchange rate as they have done to drive it down.

So, maybe OOO's data says that the exchange rate doesn't really matter much, and 4k dubs would be just fine.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Apr 7, 2012 6:19:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
flewors

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The prices on the exchange won't drop much because the Dub market will be taking a punch in the gut every other month. As long as they keep changing up the rewards the lemmings will keep buying the boxes.


This isn't necessarily true. Unless they add a lot of new things every other month I expect the shiny will wear off pretty quickly. It will still have an effect on the exchange, but a smaller effect each time since dragons and unicorns won't be special anymore.
[Apr 7, 2012 6:30:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Quitex

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Unicorns not being special??

*shriek*

How dare you!
----------------------------------------
Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice.
Monarch of Cows
Joly wrote: 
Someone asked why Quitex would do this as a rogue. All I can say is, well, he's QUITEX! No one knows what he will do next, ESPECIALLY Quitex.

[Apr 7, 2012 6:48:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hillsmen

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Vanilla YPP is so much better than YPP now.
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Captainrich
[Apr 7, 2012 7:16:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
catscanner

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I suspect a copyright infringement lawsuit...



Pet Nyan cat next Three Rings?

/e back to 4chan
[Apr 8, 2012 1:55:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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Re: Dub price whine thread Reply to this Post
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Well, we, as players, don't really have much data on how much the dub<->PoE exchange rate impacts player retention and, more importantly, OOO's bottom line.

Even if dubs were 4kPoE, YPP would be *much* easer on new players than Spiral Knights is on their crown to CE exchange. The Spiral Knights exchange rate would need to be cut by a factor of 2, maybe 3, before it would be in line with 4k dubs. And yet, OOO has done as much to drive up SK's exchange rate as they have done to drive it down.

So, maybe OOO's data says that the exchange rate doesn't really matter much, and 4k dubs would be just fine.

We don't have hard data, but we all have our own experiences, and those of new crewbies who ask how much a sloop costs and then mysteriously disappear within a few days. Even affording a badge to play the parts of the game you want becomes a grind (at 4k, an officer badge is costing you over 1k a day in upkeep), and keeping a pirate fully equipped (sword, bludgeon, badge, clothes) begins to require an unfun level of grind.

High dub prices also cause inflation in every in-game good because it puts a minimum price on labour. At the current 3k, the labour break-even rate is 21 poe/hr; labour plus tax on the labour makes up around 7 poe of the price of a small ball. That makes running things more expensive, buying things with the result of a voyage more expensive, and puts things out of reach of more people.
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Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra
Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite)
Phantasm/Reign of Chaos (Viridian)
[Apr 8, 2012 3:43:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mads0001

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The killer is the "new player" factor really, since on greenie pillages you start thinking "Man, I'm going to have to play for like a week solid before I can even unlock parlour games FOR A MONTH?!?!"

When I started dubs were under 1k and I think I picked up a parlour and labour badge in like, a day? (ish?)

Which as a newbie was a much more enjoyable experience.
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rachaelj wrote: 

"your standing in patronising has gone up and is now respected in your archipelago"
spelling corrected by Mads(tm) :P
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[Apr 8, 2012 6:59:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xyz2043

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One of the problems I see with higher dub prices is labor badges. I don't see shops raising pay so when my badge runs out, I won't be getting another.
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stfu
[Apr 8, 2012 9:55:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Quitex

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You have to average 21 PoE/Labor Hour to break even.

Ridiculous.

The only people who will be able to keep sustainable labor badges are expert distillers.
----------------------------------------
Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice.
Monarch of Cows
Joly wrote: 
Someone asked why Quitex would do this as a rogue. All I can say is, well, he's QUITEX! No one knows what he will do next, ESPECIALLY Quitex.

[Apr 8, 2012 10:14:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Setsusa

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Re: Dub price whine thread Reply to this Post
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{high dub exchange rate} kills the game for the new and/or casual player. Twice as much grind (or more) for the same stuff will hurt player retention and in the long term will exacerbate problems loading voyages due to lack of players.

Well, we, as players, don't really have much data on how much the dub<->PoE exchange rate impacts player retention and, more importantly, OOO's bottom line.

Even if dubs were 4kPoE, YPP would be *much* easer on new players than Spiral Knights is on their crown to CE exchange. The Spiral Knights exchange rate would need to be cut by a factor of 2, maybe 3, before it would be in line with 4k dubs. And yet, OOO has done as much to drive up SK's exchange rate as they have done to drive it down.

So, maybe OOO's data says that the exchange rate doesn't really matter much, and 4k dubs would be just fine.


Not much to be said about this that wasn't already said, but Algol, generally I think your posts are pretty well thought out. This one comes across as a subscriber player that has no idea what he's talking about. 4k doubs are fine for experienced players, but when you see new players quitting because doubloons went up to 1300 as opposed to 1100, what do you think will happen when they jump from 1800 -> 2800?
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Cremate on Emerald.
Motou on Meridian.
Avatar by Elfeesh.
[Apr 8, 2012 11:22:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
altheacat



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Re: Dub price whine thread Reply to this Post
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You have to average 21 PoE/Labor Hour to break even.

Ridiculous.

The only people who will be able to keep sustainable labor badges are expert distillers.



On the other hand, if the experience of my tailor is anything to go by, where nobody is buying or making clothes, some shopkeepers will struggle to even continue paying the "old" rates.....


Might help the problem of 'island paving' though!
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Noushka still of Sage

SO of Privateers
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[Apr 8, 2012 4:03:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Trogo1

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They have reinvigorated the game by merging the oceans, and the followup was to kill it by introducing a doubsink so great that it caused the doubloon price to skyrocket.

gg, wp.

I'm waiting for Meridian to have the same player-base as the current Jade.
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Trogo on Viridian.
[Apr 9, 2012 4:47:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
NotJaret

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The prices on the exchange won't drop much because the Dub market will be taking a punch in the gut every other month. As long as they keep changing up the rewards the lemmings will keep buying the boxes.


This isn't necessarily true. Unless they add a lot of new things every other month I expect the shiny will wear off pretty quickly. It will still have an effect on the exchange, but a smaller effect each time since dragons and unicorns won't be special anymore.


Not according to eightycats
 
It (bottled Bluebeard) is currently blue. We will add/swap in other colors in later versions of the box.

-snip-

 
5. Unicorn pets will come in the same colors as the current Pony?


Greenbones picked out a pretty wide variety of unicorn colors that looked good. The colors created will change depending on the season (cooler colors in the winter, warmer in the summer, for example).

 
6. Is the Dragon Familiar able to be recolored?
6b. If so, what colors will be made available?


Dragons cannot be recolored with Rogue Marks, but like the unicorn, they will come in a variety of color combinations that the artists liked, and the available colors will rotate with the season.

This basically sums up that boxes will have different colors in later months, I suppose we will also get different items too. Plus, certain dragon colors will be more desirable than others. I doubt the devs will let a good dub sink die away, that's like nerfing Atlantis. If they would nerf wall grape/hump/what erics does in his sleep, people would stop buying badges. And don't go pulling that black box thing....that is a Poe sink, not a dub sink. Dub sink = monez for OOO.


P.S. wok, you don't make any sense, you remind me of that crazy guy from an episode of burn notice.


Tl;dr - quote from eightycats about how colors and possibly items will change in gold boxes, why people will continue to buy gold boxes because of new and more sexy colors, 000 won't let a good dub sink die away, like why they (most likely) haven't fixed Atlantis.
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Jaret of Hunter Emerald
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by NotJaret at Apr 9, 2012 1:28:11 PM]
[Apr 9, 2012 1:18:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Stephensam

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Gold Boxes are a new feature. There will be an initial spike in interest and it will fade as they stay longer in the game. Doubloon prices will sink back down from their 3K price.
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Stevensam -Cobalt Native, founder and host of The PoE is Right. Creator of Lime Day.
[Apr 9, 2012 8:27:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Stevensam [Link]  Go to top 
Hillsmen

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Gold Boxes are a new feature. There will be an initial spike in interest and it will fade as they stay longer in the game. Doubloon prices will sink back down from their 3K price.

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Captainrich
[Apr 10, 2012 7:44:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
NotJaret

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Gold Boxes are a new feature. There will be an initial spike in interest and it will fade as they stay longer in the game. Doubloon prices will sink back down from their 3K price.


or not read my post?
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Jaret of Hunter Emerald
[Apr 10, 2012 4:39:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hillsmen

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Re: Dub price whine thread Reply to this Post
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Gold Boxes are a new feature. There will be an initial spike in interest and it will fade as they stay longer in the game. Doubloon prices will sink back down from their 3K price.


or not read my post?


Sorry don't care enough!
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Captainrich
[Apr 10, 2012 9:02:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Trogo1

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Gold Boxes are a new feature. There will be an initial spike in interest and it will fade as they stay longer in the game. Doubloon prices will sink back down from their 3K price.


or not read my post?


Sorry don't care enough!

Enough to post.
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Trogo on Viridian.
[Apr 10, 2012 10:20:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Synapse6



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Re: Dub price whine thread Reply to this Post
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Gold Boxes are a new feature. There will be an initial spike in interest and it will fade as they stay longer in the game. Doubloon prices will sink back down from their 3K price.


or not read my post?

News flash: dub prices lower when OOO releases promotional boxes with sub purchases, this is a way for them to make money and then have the people sink their inflation of dubs.
[Apr 11, 2012 4:43:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karnisov

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Stephensam wrote: 
Gold Boxes are a new feature. There will be an initial spike in interest and it will fade as they stay longer in the game. Doubloon prices will sink back down from their 3K price.


If they change up the possible items every other month, demand will stay steady and the dub exchange rate won't drop significantly.

Sega is calling the shots now through revenue targets. OOO has to meet them. This is one of their new milking machines and they're going to do whatever it takes to keep volume up, even if it ends up killing the cow.

Read the writing on the wall. Its plain as day.
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Karnisov
flinging poo on the forums because its more fun than playing your broken game
[Apr 11, 2012 5:26:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hillsmen

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Gold Boxes are a new feature. There will be an initial spike in interest and it will fade as they stay longer in the game. Doubloon prices will sink back down from their 3K price.


or not read my post?


Sorry don't care enough!

Enough to post.


Post count+++
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Captainrich
[Apr 11, 2012 8:52:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Karnisov wrote: 
Sega is calling the shots now through revenue targets. OOO has to meet them. This is one of their new milking machines and they're going to do whatever it takes to keep volume up, even if it ends up killing the cow.

Is it possible that pillaging pay-outs have been cut down ~50% or more as well to increase revenue and keep dub prices hight?

Our crew's pillaging is fairly regular and steady, and yet, I have seen a rather dramatic decrease in pillaging pay-outs. [interarch sloop pillage with 5-6 skilled mates, master average, leg bnav, 8 win, 1 loss, 50K total booty or 10K/pirate or 3K/pirate/hour ... similar runs with similar pirates with similar bnav scores were closer or even above 100K in the past.]

OOO needs a profit to stay viable as a financial corporation and with a shrinking player base that increasingly consists of botters and poe-for-cash operators, they really do not have much of a choice to do what they do to generate revenue to pay salaries and taxes.
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
[Apr 12, 2012 5:41:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Is it possible that pillaging pay-outs have been cut down ~50% or more as well to increase revenue and keep dub prices hight?

Unlikely. Lower doubloon prices help OOO, not hurt them. More doubloons get purchased to sell to other players. The only way that high dub prices help is when they've introduced a dub sink that's being used-- that means that more dubs are leaving the system, which is what they're really after.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Apr 12, 2012 6:00:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Unlikely. Lower doubloon prices help OOO, not hurt them. More doubloons get purchased to sell to other players. The only way that high dub prices help is when they've introduced a dub sink that's being used-- that means that more dubs are leaving the system, which is what they're really after.

There are two competing forces with respect to buying dubs from OOO and the PoE<->dub exchange rate.

First, the higher the PoE<->dub exchange rate, the more likely people are to buy dubs from OOO instead of the exchange.

Second, the lower the PoE<->dub exchange rate is, the more dubs players have to buy to get the same amount of PoE. So, if someone is looking at getting 10M PoE for jobber pay, they have to buy twice as many dubs if the exchange rate is 1.5k as if it is 3k. The same goes for other crown sinks like black boxes, expensive clothes, etc.

Like he effect of the exchange rate on player retention, which of these two forces dominate is going to be something players don't have much less data than OOO. If OOO's data says that a high exchange rate doesn't impact player retention much and more people buy dubs from them instead of the exchange, then OOO would want to drive the exchange rate up.

My guess is that high exchange rates hurt player retention, and that if gold boxes had been pure PoE sinks (like black boxes), OOO would have ended up selling more dubs due to players having to buy more dubs in order to get PoE to buy gold boxes. My guess doesn't pay OOO's bills though. And, I guess he problem with too bots fountaining large amounts of PoE with few dubs sunk may make all PoE sinks somewhat irrelevant now.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Apr 12, 2012 6:59:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
NotJaret

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Unlikely. Lower doubloon prices help OOO, not hurt them. More doubloons get purchased to sell to other players. The only way that high dub prices help is when they've introduced a dub sink that's being used-- that means that more dubs are leaving the system, which is what they're really after.

There are two competing forces with respect to buying dubs from OOO and the PoE<->dub exchange rate.

First, the higher the PoE<->dub exchange rate, the more likely people are to buy dubs from OOO instead of the exchange.

Second, the lower the PoE<->dub exchange rate is, the more dubs players have to buy to get the same amount of PoE. So, if someone is looking at getting 10M PoE for jobber pay, they have to buy twice as many dubs if the exchange rate is 1.5k as if it is 3k. The same goes for other crown sinks like black boxes, expensive clothes, etc.

Like he effect of the exchange rate on player retention, which of these two forces dominate is going to be something players don't have much less data than OOO. If OOO's data says that a high exchange rate doesn't impact player retention much and more people buy dubs from them instead of the exchange, then OOO would want to drive the exchange rate up.

My guess is that high exchange rates hurt player retention, and that if gold boxes had been pure PoE sinks (like black boxes), OOO would have ended up selling more dubs due to players having to buy more dubs in order to get PoE to buy gold boxes. My guess doesn't pay OOO's bills though. And, I guess he problem with too bots fountaining large amounts of PoE with few dubs sunk may make all PoE sinks somewhat irrelevant now.


you play Spiral knights too much
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Jaret of Hunter Emerald
[Apr 12, 2012 1:20:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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you played Spiral knights too much

true... *sigh*
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Apr 12, 2012 3:01:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scullywag

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...and more people buy dubs from them instead of the exchange, then OOO would want to drive the exchange rate up.

Every single dub on the exchange has previously been bought from OOO for cash. Every single one of them. The dub exchange does not bring new dubs into the game, it only transfers them between players.
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Gatsukama of Meridian
Retired: BlackCat and BlackTeeth of Midnight, and Blackteeth of Azure
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Chiptharip

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"Most irrelevant 'return-from-lurking' post" award goes to......
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