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Jongy5

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I was referring to

(possible) Botter wrote:
 
them people are not me


and
.e shudders

 
what's to prevent them from rising up and overthrowing their human masters?

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Message from Team Evil: Fine, we'll pass the petition along to Hera for you even though you're pro-Team Purple, but we refuse to be happy about it! #TeamEvilisAWESOME
[Mar 14, 2012 1:49:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Notsizzly

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I can safely say that i run around 12-18 clients at a time on peoples ships.


Give me this computer that won't get overheated. I mean, laptop. That doesn't take me a week to arrange the whatever nerdy kind of cooling systems you've got going on. Oh and a big enough of a screen that I can actually somehow arrange 'em clients.

Actually. Give me skills to run 18 clients and maintain excellent (preferrably incredible) level on each one of them at the same time for longer than one league.
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~ Sizzly of Emerald ~
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[Mar 14, 2012 2:19:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hikariks

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About rigs, ;P it took me a while to assure my stat stays there in ult <_< cuz the SMALLEST mistake you made could make you go down from that incredibly shiny boat :P (now i can do it fine if i pay attention and loop more than i tar, meaning i kinda had to change my style<_<)
But i find it funny after an HS the other day like 5 people were still on station after everyone left adn we ported XD and they had all been increds which made me laugh cuz i was like -busted-

well off my story time, yes ive noticed it <_< but then i notice people who i know they dont bot (i include myself in there) who they get called botters v.v and at least for me, its not really nice ;P
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Hikariks at Mar 14, 2012 2:50:59 PM]
[Mar 14, 2012 2:34:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jongy5

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Jabby remarks get jabby responses I guess, You, Me and everyone else on the ult list are equally suspected.
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Musicologist : Self-proclaimed Master Minstrel mostly of Meridian

Message from Team Evil: Fine, we'll pass the petition along to Hera for you even though you're pro-Team Purple, but we refuse to be happy about it! #TeamEvilisAWESOME
[Mar 14, 2012 2:39:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hikariks

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Jabby remarks get jabby responses I guess, You, Me and everyone else on the ult list are equally suspected.



This sucks to be honest v.v

Edit: Btw, ill get you someday my dear friend ;3 just 4 numbers away XD
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Yumisa World Wide ;)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Hikariks at Mar 14, 2012 2:49:14 PM]
[Mar 14, 2012 2:48:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Yngve6

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Aw, not saying that getting increds makes you a botter. Even I get increds, just not enough to beat those damned bots :(
Well if it continues it will be bots against bot in the end, lol
How much fun will that be?
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[Mar 14, 2012 2:57:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Trogo1

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Aw, not saying that getting increds makes you a botter. Even I get increds, just not enough to beat those damned bots :(
Well if it continues it will be bots against bot in the end, lol
How much fun will that be?


Every jobber would be a botter.
Every naver would be a botter.

BOTS HAVE TAKEN OVER!11!!1!1!!
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Trogo on Viridian.
[Mar 14, 2012 3:09:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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At least we finally have skilled swabbies?!

(Joke not my own)
[Mar 14, 2012 3:19:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
darkseid

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None of the bots are called Skynet, are they?


stage 1: write a program that makes a computer intelligent

stage 2: don't call it skynet then noone will suspect a thign!
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[Mar 14, 2012 3:37:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Blisstian

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Botting... siggh.. Hope this doesn't make me many enemies...

I know some of the people commenting here.. I do not condone botting.. I do dislike all the negative effects they bring, and have been mentioned above.

That being said.. I feel that while it is unfortunate some people can enjoy starting a program that cheats for them.. and call that playing a game.. without these unfortunate souls.. many of the amazing voyages we all love so much would not be the same.

Again.. I think it is unfortunate.. but also unavoidable. Where there are rules to be broken.... someone will find a way.

My personal opinion: I feel sorry for botters, but i also don't mind that they play. They allow more voyages to be sailed, and, for now, I enjoy beating them over and over on Rigs... although i'm sure the day will come..
[Mar 14, 2012 3:46:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
darkseid

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I think it would be better, without the bots beign able to puzzle at a high level the average level of puzzlign would drop severely causing more people to be able to egt higher stats and incs leading to higher confidence and being able to go on more voyages like CI's and cit runs meaning more real people will get involved in things leading to a healthier atmosphere ingame rather than standing around bitching about how they can never go on things.

this will of course mean greenies come into a more positive atmosphere and so are more likely to stay around.
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Darkseid, Cerulean.
Senior Officer of Under the Black Flag.
[Mar 14, 2012 3:57:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hikariks

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it is fun to beat them :P the question is:
Why play the game if you are not going to really play it and will jsut be botting? ;P to show you are awesome at puzzles and have god damned good stat which arent really yours? PLEASE, get a life and show people you are awesome in REAL LIFE, not a game which, apparently, you are nto playing :P
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[Mar 14, 2012 4:26:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karnisov

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Blisstian wrote: 

My personal opinion: I feel sorry for botters, but i also don't mind that they play. They allow more voyages to be sailed, and, for now, I enjoy beating them over and over on Rigs... although i'm sure the day will come..


voyage manning issues could be easily solved with skilled swabbies (they already exist in the navy), and they would not break the player scoring curve or make ult+ trophies meaningless that legit players earned.

you'll come around the day that botters make your ult trophy worthless by making rigs synonymous with botting, much like bilge is now. most players who don't know you personally will assume you botted to get the trophy. so much for having a sense of accomplishment.

by condoning botting now you are throwing away your chance to head off the forced irrelevance of your achievements.

or you're a botter yourself. in which case you don't care anyway.
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Karnisov
flinging poo on the forums because its more fun than playing your broken game
[Mar 14, 2012 4:56:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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Why play the game if you are not going to really play it and will jsut be botting? ;P to show you are awesome at puzzles and have god damned good stat which arent really yours? PLEASE, get a life and show people you are awesome in REAL LIFE, not a game which, apparently, you are nto playing :P


This was already answered. In case it needs to be spelled out:
(1) While at school, set up your home computer to run bots for PoE.
(2) Since you're doing illegal things already, sell that PoE online for RL cash.
[(3) Compare with your electric bill to see if it's actually worth it. But I suspect many botters are happily driving up their parents' electric bill for a bit of spending money.]
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[Mar 14, 2012 5:37:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
Endymion
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Reporting does very little. Unless OOO's detectors pick it up, OMs won't do anything regardless of any attached evidence.


This is not true.

We examine every complaint we receive, and this most definitely includes botting complaints. And I can tell you that there are plenty of botters being banned pretty much every day as a result of a complaint (in addition to those being banned due to automated detection).

But - in the interest of everyone playing - we do require strong evidence before we permanently ban someone. And depending on the circumstances, being sufficiently certain about this with regards to bots is not an easy task.

That means that it can easily happen that a reporting player is certain of another player to be using a bot - perhaps because he told him, for example -, and yet we may not be able to find sufficiently hard proof of that.

If we were to just plain believe such claims, imagine how easy it would be for your arch enemy to just make up such a claim about you. You would not want us to ban you just because of that!

For that reason, we need to rely on other sources of evidence. We do have numerous systems that help us with that, and whenever we have the development resources to do so, we improve these.

These methods and systems are not perfect, there's no denying that - they really cannot be, due to the nature of the issue. But no player who uses a bot can ever be certain that he won't be facing a "You have been banned from our games. Reason: Botting" the next time he tries to log in.

And you reporting botters helps us achieve that, even if you perhaps don't see a result for each specific complaint you send.
[Mar 14, 2012 8:44:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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I know this is anecdotal, but when you have bot creators both submitting and posting videos taken from teamviewer of them providing 'support' to players with their bot issues and the OMs ban the submitter while allowing the player with video of them botting to continue playing, credibility is severely diminished. Other anecdotes - there have been players that have submitted individual bot's code to developers. This has resulted in bans to the whistleblowers.

All one has to do is pop over to any of the multiple major bot websites to realize that OOO is terribly ineffective at enforcement, regardless of the reassurance given. There are seriously INDIVIDUALS that have made over 5 figures (USD) selling both bots and PoE illicitly.

This would be a lot better if OOO was honest with the players and allowed the players to be honest with them. There have been players, myself included, who have been suspended, both from the forums and game, for simply pointing out illicit websites as a means to provide direct and tangible evidence to the current situation. How can OOO seriously face an endemic issue if discussing the issue in any detail is equatable to a boogey man appearance. Seriously, if there is a Game Design discussion regarding this, and you punish players that go "hey game design, here is how the problem works, how can we fix it", how the hell do you expect to foster a healthy environment?

And before the inevitable "how u no so much??" - these websites receive more hits daily than puzzlepirates.com. Botting may have been a secret surprise in 2006, but it is common knowledge these days; common knowledge that severely diminishes the game environment.
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by Chiptharip at Mar 14, 2012 9:38:50 PM]
[Mar 14, 2012 9:26:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
MrsMimichu

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I can't wait till people make conspiracy threads that "OOO OWNS THE BOT MAKERS TO STIMULATE THE GAME!!!11!!111!3" At least the bots aren't killing PP like they almost killed RS. Only a couple months ago they finally cracked down and banned ALL of them, lawsuits and all. They should share their secrets with other MMOs, because going from more botting players then real players to almost no bots at all and staying that way is quite the achievement.
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I play with my husband on MidnightCerulean, but I also play on the doubloon servers every once in a while.
[Mar 14, 2012 11:01:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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you'll come around the day that botters make your ult trophy worthless by making rigs synonymous with botting, much like bilge is now. most players who don't know you personally will assume you botted to get the trophy. so much for having a sense of accomplishment.

by condoning botting now you are throwing away your chance to head off the forced irrelevance of your achievements.


The sense of accomplishment you derive from your own puzzling is independent of what other people think of you. If you know you earned that Ultimate, why should you care whether other people think you did?

The sense of accomplishment you ascribe to other people's puzzling, on the other hand, is dependent solely on whether bots exist, not even whether they are used. We see nothing special about someone being able to multiply two numbers together because we all know a pocket calculator can do the same thing. This is independent of whether we even currently have access to a pocket calculator. In the same way, if we know an amateur program is capable of bilging in exactly the same manner as John Doe, except with no errors, what sense of accomplishment would we ascribe to him, regardless of whether such a program is actually in use?

(A substantial portion of) The value of an Ult trophy in a puzzle is lost the moment it is shown a bot is capable of achieving it. Banning the bot, while good for other reasons, doesn't reverse the damage that has already been done, because it does nothing to change the fact that the puzzle itself is bottable. The real fix has to be applied to the puzzle itself.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[Mar 15, 2012 1:31:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
Yngve6

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(A substantial portion of) The value of an Ult trophy in a puzzle is lost the moment it is shown a bot is capable of achieving it. Banning the bot, while good for other reasons, doesn't reverse the damage that has already been done, because it does nothing to change the fact that the puzzle itself is bottable. The real fix has to be applied to the puzzle itself.


Ok let's go fix chess ><
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Inghild on Meridian
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[Mar 15, 2012 11:32:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimaa

Seriously though, haven't you noticed a dropoff in the general public's interest in high-level chess ever since computers established their dominance in the game? Haven't you noticed that basically no one has paid serious attention to checkers ever since computers solved the whole thing? I bet that in a couple decades, we'll regard chess grandmasters the same way we regard human calculators--people who, while intelligent, dedicated, and fun to watch at their craft, are ultimately performing parlor tricks with insignificant (intrinsic) intellectual merit.

Again, that doesn't make pursuing chess not worthwhile. What you stand to gain from learning the game has nothing to do with what other people think about the game, nor does what you stand to gain from the actual process of playing the game (I mean, it's a game; you should be enjoying the process of playing it). And what you stand to gain from learning a game like that can transfer to other skills, ones that are not computer-solveable and therefore still very much in need of human input. But don't do it for the prestige; that is doomed to fade.

Really, that applies in general: Do things because you enjoy them or because you think they're worthwhile for you, not because you think they'll make other people respect you.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
Puppetar by Tilinka
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by tanonev at Mar 15, 2012 1:39:06 PM]
[Mar 15, 2012 1:35:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
Yngve6

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Well as I said before. I don't care about stats. I do care that others care enough not to job you for it though. And I don't think people that like playing chess enjoy it less because a computer can beat them. At least not as long as you are not forced to compete with the comp ><
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[Mar 15, 2012 2:00:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jongy5

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Edit: Btw, ill get you someday my dear friend ;3 just 4 numbers away XD


Hey, you have the #1 trophy ..... I don't :P
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Musicologist : Self-proclaimed Master Minstrel mostly of Meridian

Message from Team Evil: Fine, we'll pass the petition along to Hera for you even though you're pro-Team Purple, but we refuse to be happy about it! #TeamEvilisAWESOME
[Mar 15, 2012 5:29:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
deathtolll

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I do know that I am replying to this a little late.

 
Reporting does very little. Unless OOO's detectors pick it up, OMs won't do anything regardless of any attached evidence.


Before everything about the bilge botters, I noticed someone sitting on the navy ship for over 24 hours and in the same position, I /complained, the OM had sufficient evidence to see if the player was botting.

This was all before the bot detection was implemented, and even before bilge botting came well known.

I may have been the cause of all the players being banned.. :x
----------------------------------------
 
Dricenticore says, "Normally I don't believe people who say they're girls on the internet but since you went from friendly to hostile in about 3 seconds"


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Lilcracker

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only way for a pirate to catch another pirate botting: run an SMH or big pilly... wait 5 mins after port... if someone is still on a station, sail out and turn back after about 5 seconds... if their DR is anything higher than booched.. they are botting.


caught 4 bots so far xD.

2 bilge, 1 carp, 1 rig

... oh and to make it fun, post it on the notice board in the jobbing bubble XD youll be amazed at how many people will come to see the bot XD.. pretty fun
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[Mar 16, 2012 4:19:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
deathtolll

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only way for a pirate to catch another pirate botting: run an SMH or big pilly... wait 5 mins after port... if someone is still on a station, sail out and turn back after about 5 seconds... if their DR is anything higher than booched.. they are botting.


caught 4 bots so far xD.

2 bilge, 1 carp, 1 rig

... oh and to make it fun, post it on the notice board in the jobbing bubble XD youll be amazed at how many people will come to see the bot XD.. pretty fun


I was looking around for a like or +1 button.
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Dricenticore says, "Normally I don't believe people who say they're girls on the internet but since you went from friendly to hostile in about 3 seconds"


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[Mar 16, 2012 5:33:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Raalala

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I know I don't dabble in forums often but, surely this will never be fixable? They'll just keep making them better and better, and unless OOO gets ahead of them, it'll just continue, no?

I hate to kind of swerve a thread, however, the problem with swordfight modders has been around for, well, 4/5+ years now? And that still isn't fixed and probably will never be, I'm not an amazing swordfighter but you'd still be surprised at the amount of people who do throw the accusation at me and people I know well, happens daily. It seems that people love to say it as an excuse for their mistakes, alright I laugh it off and show a few hearties, because it does make me chuckle considering I've played for over 6 years now, but it still isn't nice to be accused of it when you know that you worked hard to get that certain stat be it GM, Leg or Ult.

I can see the same thing happening with all the other puzzles and I can't see where the fun or pride is in it? Yes you have the trophy, no you didn't actually earn it, seems like they're cheating themselves out of some kind of a good feeling. Getting Ultimate in something used to be something to be proud about or something that made people go, 'Ohhh', nowdays it may as well be able.

Even still, I know that if you're faced against someone who uses mods/hacks/whatever you suspect, you can still beat them by out-playing them and you'll feel better for doing so. Just, don't take the easy way out and follow their lead to 'beat' them, it is after all, not really a person playing...
/whoneedsstatsanyway
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~ Bambeh

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Priapus says; 'Mate, look at his screen, you could play chess on that.'

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[Mar 16, 2012 6:46:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
amartino

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... oh and to make it fun, post it on the notice board in the jobbing bubble XD youll be amazed at how many people will come to see the bot XD.. pretty fun


ha ha yeah, that was funny seeing "Botter on board, come see!"
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Or time will waste you

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Lilcracker

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the problem with swordfight modders has been around for, well, 4/5+ years now? And that still isn't fixed and probably will never be, I'm not an amazing swordfighter but you'd still be surprised at the amount of people who do throw the accusation at me and people I know well, happens daily. It seems that people love to say it as an excuse for their mistakes, alright I laugh it off and show a few hearties, because it does make me chuckle considering I've played for over 6 years now, but it still isn't nice to be accused of it when you know that you worked hard to get that certain stat be it GM, Leg or Ult.

I can see the same thing happening with all the other puzzles and I can't see where the fun or pride is in it? Yes you have the trophy, no you didn't actually earn it, seems like they're cheating themselves out of some kind of a good feeling. Getting Ultimate in something used to be something to be proud about or something that made people go, 'Ohhh', nowdays it may as well be able.

Even still, I know that if you're faced against someone who uses mods/hacks/whatever you suspect, you can still beat them by out-playing them and you'll feel better for doing so. Just, don't take the easy way out and follow their lead to 'beat' them, it is after all, not really a person playing...
/whoneedsstatsanyway






ok so this is how i understand sf hacks:

someone downloads a bunch of stuff and slows down their connection to somehow avoid an insta or build while not being attacked etc.



i have come across the term "speed hacks"... if you notice the speed, as it is now.. if ye completely use space bar on every pair of pieces that fall.. it's hard enough for the human brain to analize everything before it falls.... a speed hack would make it faster, but it wouldnt give an advantage since if ye go that speed, yer brain won't have enough time to proccess everything to make the right decision of where to put the pieces... so ye will either mess up badly the whole fight or ye'll have to slow down to normal sf speed (without hack) to sf well.... making the hack obsolete
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Emerald - Nightbear
[Mar 16, 2012 12:48:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Blisstian

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by condoning botting now you are throwing away your chance to head off the forced irrelevance of your achievements.

or you're a botter yourself. in which case you don't care anyway.


if you look in my post.. the first thing i said is i do not condone botting xD..

As for the swabbies idea.. i think this is against the overall mindset of OOO for YPP that brings a lot of players together to run big ships.. or else we could just have a WF that would run with 1 sail 1 carp 1 bilge and 1 gun.. i would take it out.. but that is not in the pirate crew theme..

Also, the people on the top of the rigs list atm on meridian are not botters i can garuntee that because we are better than the current programs.. the best can hit bottom of list but hold at leg a lot.. sooo dont accuse me of anything plz.. never cheated in any way on this game except one time i got my account hacked.. that was the end of that xD..
[Mar 16, 2012 3:26:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Donsmythe

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i have come across the term "speed hacks"... if you notice the speed, as it is now.. if ye completely use space bar on every pair of pieces that fall.. it's hard enough for the human brain to analize everything before it falls.... a speed hack would make it faster, but it wouldnt give an advantage since if ye go that speed, yer brain won't have enough time to proccess everything to make the right decision of where to put the pieces... so ye will either mess up badly the whole fight or ye'll have to slow down to normal sf speed (without hack) to sf well.... making the hack obsolete


You're missing an important part of SF mechanics. Whenever you break something, there's an animation. You have to wait for the animation to finish before you can resume playing. I've made videos of my playing (so I can analyze and find better ways to do things) and when I measured the time, I found that a typical Vegas takes ~6 seconds to animate. Now, I have also seen videos on YouTube from guys with speed hacks turned on. Their animations for similar combos are typically less than a second long. That means they get around 5 seconds more than I do, which they can use to build their next combo, while mine is still animating. And if you're any good at SF at all, you know you can do a LOT in 5 seconds, speed hack or not. This should br obvious, but when our combos hit each other, the cheater's animation for that is faster too, which will gain them another second or two. In the end, if they break smallish combos at a fast enough pace, they can totally flood my incoming queue since they can break more and more while I am waiting for animations to complete.
[Mar 16, 2012 4:34:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://don.yacktman.org/blog/    yackd [Link]  Go to top 
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