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awright

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Your Thread

So as Zakilla has told everyone, I decided that I should spend the time to ask him some questions about the way "Your Flag" will be handling Alkaid island.

I sent zakilla a /tell and as promised he was very responsive and quick to answer my questions. I was talking to him and asking questions about the chatloggs I recieved regarding how he was planning on dropping shoppes to make up the deficit from the cade and basically using Alkaid as a way to farm PoE.

After denying all of this, Crazysanta entered the palace and asked zakilla about "that shoppe" that he had promised to drop for him which seemed to confirm the chatloggs. (zakilla said something about how he wanted to wait untill the merge to drop the shoppe for him because he wanted the public to think he was a good governor.)

One of zakilla's main points that he tried to make with me was that he wanted to lower the price of commodities on Alkaid. He has completly neglected the stall aspect and is only focusing on the shoppes that he plans on dropping for profit. I have tried to explain to him that dropping shoppes is only diluting an already diluted labour pool and will cause inflation of prices while stopping stalls from being profitable or worthwhile, but he assured me that labour alt armies are the answer. This is not only counter productive but is also hurting the island more than doing the good it is supposed to be doing.

Oh and also, I am apparently a socialist...

Edit:
 
Albatrox tells ye, "read your forum post, the first thing he asked when i said i would like to buy and run the second shoppe hes gonna drop was whats your offer? top bid is 1.5m. didnt even ask if i would actually run it (which i would). damn shame"


He sent me this /tell at the inn a minute or two after I posted, and agreed to let me edit this into the OP
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-barcium

Original Huntard
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by awright at Jan 23, 2012 6:16:56 PM]
[Jan 23, 2012 6:00:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
scrapsis

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Re: Your Thread

 
Oh and also, I am apparently a socialist...


At least you're not a republican xD
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Trilian
[Jan 23, 2012 6:04:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
the8dude

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Re: Your Thread

 
So as Zakilla has told everyone, I decided that I should spend the time to ask him some questions about the way "Your Flag" will be handling Alkaid island.

I sent zakilla a /tell and as promised he was very responsive and quick to answer my questions. I was talking to him and asking questions about the chatloggs I recieved regarding how he was planning on dropping shoppes to make up the deficit from the cade and basically using Alkaid as a way to farm PoE.

After denying all of this, Crazysanta entered the palace and asked zakilla about "that shoppe" that he had promised to drop for him which seemed to confirm the chatloggs. (zakilla said something about how he wanted to wait untill the merge to drop the shoppe for him because he wanted the public to think he was a good governor.)

One of zakilla's main points that he tried to make with me was that he wanted to lower the price of commodities on Alkaid. He has completly neglected the stall aspect and is only focusing on the shoppes that he plans on dropping for profit. I have tried to explain to him that dropping shoppes is only diluting an already diluted labour pool and will cause inflation of prices while stopping stalls from being profitable or worthwhile, but he assured me that labour alt armies are the answer. This is not only counter productive but is also hurting the island more than doing the good it is supposed to be doing.

Oh and also, I am apparently a socialist...

Edit:
 
Albatrox tells ye, "read your forum post, the first thing he asked when i said i would like to buy and run the second shoppe hes gonna drop was whats your offer? top bid is 1.5m. didnt even ask if i would actually run it (which i would). damn shame"


He sent me this /tell at the inn a minute or two after I posted, and agreed to let me edit this into the OP


Barcium, you are a bafoon. After spending over 2 hours explaining to you how Alkaid will be improved, you post this non-sense.

1. You are lying about the chat logs, as these do not exist, you made them up. (He told me he received these chat loggs by email, from a stranger) You first said I made this comment on the FO chat, and when I told you I do not make comments on flag issues on the FO chat, you said it was on the royal chat. Wow.. good one mate. Not only are you lying, but you are making yourself look like a fool.

2. Craysanta wanted one of the 2 IMs that were constructed, and I told him that it was sold, and wasn't planning to build more. He can confirm this, and so can the people who were in the room with us.

3. You agreed with what I was saying, and when you ran out of things to fight me with, you started to make things up.

4. Lastly, as you heard and saw me tell people asking for new shops, I told them that we have changed our plans, and are not constructing any more shops.

5. You are what is know as: The Third Party.Fact, Barcium is always trying to stir up trouble. Don't believe me, check out his posts. He is always trying to start things.
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Zakilla
You've seen nothing yet.
[Jan 23, 2012 6:22:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randomact

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Re: Your Thread

Good to see you're open to suggestions that don't involve paving islands.
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Loathe/Forever.

Cremate tells ye, "i think i just broke my hymen"
[Jan 23, 2012 6:23:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
awright

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Re: Your Thread

zakilla wrote: 
1. You are lying about the chat logs, as these do not exist, you made them up. (He told me he received these chat loggs by email, from a stranger) You first said I made this comment on the FO chat, and when I told you I do not make comments on flag issues on the FO chat, you said it was on the royal chat. Wow.. good one mate. Not only are you lying, but you are making yourself look like a fool


Actually I recieved chatloggs via email that contained chatloggs in flag officer, /tell's, royal chat, and speaking in house chat.

 
2. Craysanta wanted one of the 2 IMs that were constructed, and I told him that it was sold, and wasn't planning to build more. He can confirm this, and so can the people who were in the room with us.


Crazysanta asked about a shoppe that he wanted to have dropped (I'm not sure weather it was an IM or not) and to that you responded that you wanted to wait untill after the merge so that people would think you are a good governor.

 
5. You are what is know as: The Third Party.Fact, Barcium is always trying to stir up trouble. Don't believe me, check out his posts. He is always trying to start things.


Right now, yes I am trying to stir up trouble. You have clearly demonstrated that you in no way know how to run an island effectivly, and are going to do much more harm than good to the island. Considering the posts in the other thread, I am going to take a wild guess and assume that most people agree with what I am posting here.
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-barcium

Original Huntard
[Jan 23, 2012 6:36:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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Re: Your Thread

Loathe, if you read the post above you, then you will notice that YF has altered their plans and do not plan on constructing any more shoppes in the foreseeable future.

So, how does building one public shoppe equate to island paving?

Really, the motives of the whole "Alkaid Welfare" party are extremely transparent - Alkaid is irrelevant; y'all just want to take shots at Zakilla . Barcium alone has attempted multiple attacks against YF; after the other attacks ("YF paywars"/"Illusion won Alk"/"Zakilla ruined islands he has governed") were proven to be inherently untrue, he moves on to the next possible (weak) narrative.

Not a single person that has criticized Alk's build plans have commented on Happy Hour's build plans. Armstrong has 45 shoppes and Happy Hour announced their right to build 1 shoppe per month. Alkaid has 36 shoppes; Zakilla has announced intention to only build one public shoppe and one private shoppe, bringing the total to 38. So, on the same weekend two flags take similar larges. The first flag, on a more important large that can sustain building (especially post merger) announces they will build one public shoppe and one private shoppe. The other flag announces they reserve the right to build one shoppe per month on an already overbuilt and saturated island. In accordance with these plans, the former's island will still have less shoppes than the latter; furthermore, the latter will build shoppes at an exponentially HIGHER rate than the former.

Despite this, everyone gets together to attempt to forum gangbang the former's plans while not issuing a single criticizing post at Happy Hour? Let's get real.
[Jan 23, 2012 6:49:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Missnoodle

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Re: Your Thread

I must agree with you on that, but people know who HH is and how they play "fair". Nobody knows who Zakilla is and already he has a bad reputation (hearing that he bought lowlands and such). So obviously people are going to hate when they hear he's going to drop shoppes... and his intent wasn't worded right....I guess......
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Angela
Missnoodle & RAGINGNOODLE on Emerald Ocean. jokes im banne
[Jan 23, 2012 7:02:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rumbum3600

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Re: Your Thread

WOAH THERE.

THERE AIN'T ROOM IN THIS THREAD FOR THE THREE OF US. ONLY I CAN STIR UP TROUBLE.

Barcium, blockade him if you don't like it.
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Spiritofsail
Plant a tree in Israel for only 5 dollars.
Kikkit tells ye, "i sunk toba"
[Jan 23, 2012 7:05:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randomact

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Re: Your Thread

 
Loathe, if you read the post above you, then you will notice that YF has altered their plans and do not plan on constructing any more shoppes in the foreseeable future.

I admit when I posted I missed the part about the altered plans. Due to the fact it was mostly about how Barcium is lying I half skimmed it. I think Zakilla would be best to post a revised plans for the islands and not just have it thrown in with other things.

As for my paving comment, 2 shoppes in 2 days was making it look like it was heading that way. If Your Flag holds to their revised island plans then no, it's not paving. I do find it weird that you only mentioned the public shoppe, but not the private one in regards to the question though.

I think the reason why Alkaid is getting so much attention is the fact that it seems like Zakilla's study of the market isn't exactly perfect - Roket pointed out some things which seem to have been swept aside and not taken into consideration. There were ways to deal with the issue of a lack of cannonballs without dropping not one, but two IM shoppes. To me it seems like the 'market research' was a way to give him an excuse to drop the shoppes rather than just dropping them anyway.
The other thing I can see giving a legitimate rise to the HWFO is Zakilla dropping an IM 2 hours after obtaining it. As far as I'm aware, Happy Hour are yet to drop a shoppe. A lot of flags reserve a right to drop a shoppe every month on a large, but don't usually do it. Your Flag holds the island is has the right to run it how they wish (man I hate when people say that), but I think it would have been nice to see some plans before they went building.

You're probably right that this is getting more attention than Armstrong due to who's behind it, but Alkaid is going to be a target when the merge occurs. All the larges are going to be obviously, but Alkaid is going to be right near one of the interocean routes. With the shoppe dropping that's been going on on Sage recently, I'd like to see these islands taken care of and not just used as a shoppe drop revenue making machine.

I look forward to seeing what's done to help make Alkaid better in the future.

Edit: More regards to Happy Hour - they haven't posted their full plans for the island yet.
Bestdamnfool wrote: 
Our plans for the island are not yet ready for announcement, but to start things off, we are setting the taxed to zero, as an introduction of your new government.

I expect that people will pay attention to those once they're posted.
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Loathe/Forever.

Cremate tells ye, "i think i just broke my hymen"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by randomact at Jan 23, 2012 7:17:56 PM]
[Jan 23, 2012 7:15:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mezzzo

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Re: Your Thread

It is hard to run a Island.
Alkaid was always a problem...
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Mezzo :D

Hanging out...
Avy by Masters!
[Jan 23, 2012 10:11:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Randomite

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Re: Your Thread

Tarting + taunting aside, it's time for a proper post.

History holds no regards to what a person is doing now, other than trends. Believe me, my history doesn't equate to how I act now and half of Hunter could back that up. Therefore I can see why people are getting worried about what Zakilla will do, but personally that's not enough for me to worry. Barcium's evidence isn't weighty enough to form a proper argument, so I won't worry about that either. However, there is just one thing.

Several people have told me that Zakilla wants to drop shoppes later, as opposed to right now. The foreseeable future could only be what, two, three weeks? Up until the merger? How do we know that as soon as the merge happens we won't see another 8 shoppes get planted while nobody can do anything about it? I don't make the claim unfounded, I've been told repeatedly now that Zak is trying to be a good governor, but also may drop a shoppe after the merge. Is that when he's done being a good governor?

I couldn't care less who runs Alkaid so long as they do a good job with it. Zakilla took it fairly but nothing has suggested to me that his current actions in-game support the plans on the forums. It seems as though he's having public face on the forums, trying to be the best governor he can, then promising other people shoppes after the merge. Ausausaus has already mentioned that he wanted a shoppe on Alkaid and was held back because somebody else had bought it, which may seem like Zak's holding back on the shoppe dropping, but how do we know that he's not just going to go back to Aus and offer him a shoppe once nobody can drop on him? It just doesn't seem like a solid plan being followed in a solid way to me, at all. This is what makes me unhappy, and i'm open to suggestions that prove he's otherwise doing a good job. Till then, though, i'll do what I can to see him no longer the governor of Alkaid.

Also on a side note to Happy Hour, you'd do well to learn from these posts when making your island plans.
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Disengaged.

Dexade tells ye, "i m not talking to you and dont want your cookies!"
[Jan 24, 2012 2:05:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Furarri

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Re: Your Thread

Zakilla should not drop shops because he is not part of the 'Super Mega Alliance'.
Only 'cool' 'in' people should be able to drop shops.
How many shops did Boyk drop last year?
How many shops did Exposed drop?
Illuminatti is the only flag to hold a large for any length of time without droping shops.
Illuminatti got Sayers after Ochubb tried to pave it. 4 Im's in 2 months plus a few other shops. Try making a profit with an IM stall on Sayers.

Let Zakilla pave the island. As long as people will pay millions for a shop why not? If Zakilla doesn't do it some 'cool' person will.
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.... submarines are out!
Slimbottom won't like this at all.

Awesome avatar by Terrify! Thanks!
[Jan 24, 2012 2:56:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Missnoodle

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Re: Your Thread

Remember kids, you can only do stuff if your cool!
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Angela
Missnoodle & RAGINGNOODLE on Emerald Ocean. jokes im banne
[Jan 24, 2012 5:57:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Missmelany

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Re: Your Thread

 
Zakilla should not drop shops because he is not part of the 'Super Mega Alliance'. Only 'cool' 'in' people should be able to drop shops. How many shops did Boyk drop last year? How many shops did Exposed drop? Illuminatti is the only flag to hold a large for any length of time without droping shops. Illuminatti got Sayers after Ochubb tried to pave it. 4 Im's in 2 months plus a few other shops. Try making a profit with an IM stall on Sayers. Let Zakilla pave the island. As long as people will pay millions for a shop why not? If Zakilla doesn't do it some 'cool' person will.


Do you only read threads you want to read? Exposed has had many call outs about shops. I can search for at least 5 about Sayers when Ochubb held it. It has nothing to do with the "Super Mega Alliance" and cool kids. People get called out, it's the forums. I don't post on the forums for that reason. People twist words and read what they want to read. Just like I am reading you calling out Exposed and the cool kids because they are killing the game for the greenies.
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Melany


Awesome Avatar by Tilinka
[Jan 24, 2012 7:43:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randomact

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Re: Your Thread

Just make a few more event blockades...
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Loathe/Forever.

Cremate tells ye, "i think i just broke my hymen"
[Jan 24, 2012 7:51:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
anchovygirl

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Re: Your Thread

EVENT BLOCKADES WILL SAVE THE GAME
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Anchovia
[Jan 24, 2012 8:47:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Randomite

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Re: Your Thread

 
Zakilla should not drop shops because he is not part of the 'Super Mega Alliance'.
Only 'cool' 'in' people should be able to drop shops.
How many shops did Boyk drop last year?
How many shops did Exposed drop?
Illuminatti is the only flag to hold a large for any length of time without droping shops.
Illuminatti got Sayers after Ochubb tried to pave it. 4 Im's in 2 months plus a few other shops. Try making a profit with an IM stall on Sayers.

Let Zakilla pave the island. As long as people will pay millions for a shop why not? If Zakilla doesn't do it some 'cool' person will.


We aren't complaining about them paving an island because of who they are.

We're complaining because of the way they're running it.
----------------------------------------
Disengaged.

Dexade tells ye, "i m not talking to you and dont want your cookies!"
[Jan 24, 2012 8:47:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Doulber

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Re: Your Thread

 
Zakilla should not drop shops because he is not part of the 'Super Mega Alliance'.
Only 'cool' 'in' people should be able to drop shops.
How many shops did Boyk drop last year?
How many shops did Exposed drop?
Illuminatti is the only flag to hold a large for any length of time without droping shops.
Illuminatti got Sayers after Ochubb tried to pave it. 4 Im's in 2 months plus a few other shops. Try making a profit with an IM stall on Sayers.

Let Zakilla pave the island. As long as people will pay millions for a shop why not? If Zakilla doesn't do it some 'cool' person will.


Boyk dropped the amount of shoppes that the intent promised. Get yo facts straight trick.
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Official spokesman of Ade446.
Barnabas the Pale tells ye, "You made me literally laugh out loud."

-The D: Retired.

Avatar by Tilinka
[Jan 24, 2012 9:17:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mezzzo

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Re: Your Thread

 
 
Zakilla should not drop shops because he is not part of the 'Super Mega Alliance'.
Only 'cool' 'in' people should be able to drop shops.
How many shops did Boyk drop last year?
How many shops did Exposed drop?
Illuminatti is the only flag to hold a large for any length of time without droping shops.
Illuminatti got Sayers after Ochubb tried to pave it. 4 Im's in 2 months plus a few other shops. Try making a profit with an IM stall on Sayers.

Let Zakilla pave the island. As long as people will pay millions for a shop why not? If Zakilla doesn't do it some 'cool' person will.


Boyk dropped the amount of shoppes that the intent promised. Get yo facts straight trick.


Thats not an excuse at all...

What if Zakilla intents to build 20 Shops , is it cool then? Cause he said it in the Intent?

No
----------------------------------------
Mezzo :D

Hanging out...
Avy by Masters!
[Jan 24, 2012 9:26:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ade446

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Re: Your Thread

Annoying Forum Poster wrote: 
Only 'cool' 'in' people should be able to drop shops.
How many shops did Boyk drop last year?

Yes, cause when the island plans were announced they were definitely the 'cool' and 'in' things.
Chip wrote: 
Not a single person that has criticized Alk's build plans have commented on Happy Hour's build plans. Armstrong has 45 shoppes and Happy Hour announced their right to build 1 shoppe per month. Alkaid has 36 shoppes; Zakilla has announced intention to only build one public shoppe and one private shoppe, bringing the total to 38. So, on the same weekend two flags take similar larges. The first flag, on a more important large that can sustain building (especially post merger) announces they will build one public shoppe and one private shoppe. The other flag announces they reserve the right to build one shoppe per month on an already overbuilt and saturated island. In accordance with these plans, the former's island will still have less shoppes than the latter; furthermore, the latter will build shoppes at an exponentially HIGHER rate than the former.

As I've had a fair amount of experience with both of these islands in the past few months I would like to mention that first off, these are not similar islands in the least. Indeed there are more shoppes on Armstrong. Armstrong however is a much better located island in relevance to commodity spawns and is therefor a much stronger island as it has very cheap commodities, and Sirius with only 12 LP's away with even cheaper commodities. Causing Armstrong to be a pretty good location to profit off the shoppes you build as the commodities prices still are low, even when the amount of shoppes are higher, the island could obviously support more active shoppes. Alkaid on the other hand is not half the island with pretty shitty spawns, the closest wood spawn with a market being either Armstrong or Maia, both 30+ LP's away. Causing the island to have high commodity prices and making it hard to profit off the shoppes built on the island and making it unable to support a whole lot more active shoppes built on it.

Anyways, I'm not very sure how the merger will affect these islands so perhaps it'll turn out to be different in the future, and maybe Alkaid will be a better island than what it is today. Which, truth to be told isn't saying very much since Alkaid is pretty horrible. However, Armstrong is in a much better shape then what you claim it to be. I'm getting the feeling that you're trying to redirect the flaming to Armstrong by claiming it to be an island in a worse condition and claiming it to be ran in worse way when in reality it's not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a HH fanboy defending them. But let's disregard from Armstrong as it's an island in a different league, and let's disregard from HH's plans as they're not in the least relevant in this discussion. If you have any issue with their plans, it should be posted in their intent thread, or perhaps create a new thread just for their plans.
Chip wrote: 

Despite this, everyone gets together to attempt to forum gangbang the former's plans while not issuing a single criticizing post at Happy Hour? Let's get real.

To be fair, when the original island plans were first announced, and I read that 3 shoppes were going to be dropped within the first two weeks of governorship, I'm surprised you didn't get gangbanged right off the bat, not because I'm particaularly against it, but because that's the impression I got of how most Huntards feel about it. I'm sure that, and Zakilla's somewhat controversial history put the aim on criticizing his plans rather then HH's.

I have one/two question though. Will these be the only shoppes built? Or will there be more shoppes built in the future?
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Sincerely
[Jan 24, 2012 9:37:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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Re: Your Thread

 

As I've had a fair amount of experience with both of these islands in the past few months I would like to mention that first off, these are not similar islands in the least. Indeed there are more shoppes on Armstrong. Armstrong however is a much better located island in relevance to commodity spawns and is therefor a much stronger island as it has very cheap commodities, and Sirius with only 12 LP's away with even cheaper commodities. Causing Armstrong to be a pretty good location to profit off the shoppes you build as the commodities prices still are low, even when the amount of shoppes are higher, the island could obviously support more active shoppes. Alkaid on the other hand is not half the island with pretty shitty spawns, the closest wood spawn with a market being either Armstrong or Maia, both 30+ LP's away. Causing the island to have high commodity prices and making it hard to profit off the shoppes built on the island and making it unable to support a whole lot more active shoppes built on it.

Anyways, I'm not very sure how the merger will affect these islands so perhaps it'll turn out to be different in the future, and maybe Alkaid will be a better island than what it is today. Which, truth to be told isn't saying very much since Alkaid is pretty horrible. However, Armstrong is in a much better shape then what you claim it to be. I'm getting the feeling that you're trying to redirect the flaming to Armstrong by claiming it to be an island in a worse condition and claiming it to be ran in worse way when in reality it's not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a HH fanboy defending them. But let's disregard from Armstrong as it's an island in a different league, and let's disregard from HH's plans as they're not in the least relevant in this discussion. If you have any issue with their plans, it should be posted in their intent thread, or perhaps create a new thread just for their plans.


Fair enough. I was mainly going off the assumption that Alk's proximity towards the "center" of the new ocean would drastically increase its value, both material and immaterial. You've got wood and other commods within 12 leagues on the Sage side.

That said, the difference between 45 and 38 shoppes is pretty negligible. The YPP economy is fickle and the effects of individual shoppes are pretty hard, if not impossible to recognize unless they are drastically selling below market price. To say that the construction of, let's say at the extreme, 5 more shoppes on Alk will amount to paving and drastically affect the island, material and immaterial, is goofy. Next week, once the two new shoppes have been created, if you can produce concrete evidence that their construction was a detriment to the island and ocean's economy, then I'll concede.

Yes, there is a degree of deflection to my argument, but its a valid point. I'm not saying "Hey, go criticize HH" but rather "Keep some perspective before criticizing YF". Many posts deriding YF's plans have been snap reactions to perception of "paving" and not based on any concrete economic reasons. Armstrong has more shoppes and, if the purported plans frmo both flags are followed to the letter, Armstrong will still have more shoppes built at a higher rate than Alkaid. Aesthetic arguments for Alk are thus invalid. Economic arguments may or may not be valid. It is really too early too tell the shape of the post-merger economy. Furthermore, from experience, very, very few people in the game (certainly not the OP and most vocal critics) can provide any true and indepth qualitative analysis of the effects of small amounts of shoppe construction in the micro/macro environment.

I do concede, though, that YF hasn't presented an extremely straightforward or consistent plan. I do suspect that is, to a degree, subject to selective parley tarting. I'm pretty sure that once the "real" concerns get separated from the superficial, we'll see a more concrete plan.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Chiptharip at Jan 24, 2012 11:18:44 AM]
[Jan 24, 2012 11:17:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ade446

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Re: Your Thread

 
Fair enough. I was mainly going off the assumption that Alk's proximity towards the "center" of the new ocean would drastically increase its value, both material and immaterial. You've got wood and other commods within 12 leagues on the Sage side.

That said, the difference between 45 and 38 shoppes is pretty negligible. The YPP economy is fickle and the effects of individual shoppes are pretty hard, if not impossible to recognize unless they are drastically selling below market price. To say that the construction of, let's say at the extreme, 5 more shoppes on Alk will amount to paving and drastically affect the island, material and immaterial, is goofy. Next week, once the two new shoppes have been created, if you can produce concrete evidence that their construction was a detriment to the island and ocean's economy, then I'll concede.

Yes, there is a degree of deflection to my argument, but its a valid point. I'm not saying "Hey, go criticize HH" but rather "Keep some perspective before criticizing YF". Many posts deriding YF's plans have been snap reactions to perception of "paving" and not based on any concrete economic reasons. Armstrong has more shoppes and, if the purported plans frmo both flags are followed to the letter, Armstrong will still have more shoppes built at a higher rate than Alkaid. Aesthetic arguments for Alk are thus invalid. Economic arguments may or may not be valid. It is really too early too tell the shape of the post-merger economy. Furthermore, from experience, very, very few people in the game (certainly not the OP and most vocal critics) can provide any true and indepth qualitative analysis of the effects of small amounts of shoppe construction in the micro/macro environment.

First of all, I'm not saying that the construction of these shoppes are detrimental. However, unless you actually do something stupid like dropping a shoppe on a spawn you will hardly be able to prove that these specific shoppes have an effect on the islands economy. Most shoppes on Alkaid are trinket-shoppes, in other words inactive. For shoppes on the island to have an effect on economy, except for paying taxes they need to be active which few of them are. Perhaps the merger will change this, we can only speculate on how this will change the value of the island itself and how it will affect the shoppes and it's commodities, drawing conclusions about it now would be silly.

The difference between 45 and 38 is not negligible, it's relative. And aesthetics are also relative to the island in question as even Large islands come in different sizes. You're comparing Beverly Hills to Harlem, they're not in same ball park and should not be compared. What I'm trying to say is that, islands with expensive commodities should be built on with caution because the island can not support more active shoppe owners being active in the shape it currently is. This can however be changed if someone starts bringing in commodities and sells it at a cheaper price increasing the supply, otherwise the demand will only be increased and the shoppe goes dormant if more shoppes are built because of higher prices and less profit marginals, if any at all. And I'm guessing that's not the goal here. This is not the case of Armstrong.

I do however agree, a more detailed and specific island-plan would probably end this and make people happy.
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Sincerely
[Jan 24, 2012 12:14:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
awright

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Re: Your Thread

boyk wrote: 
This can however be changed if someone starts bringing in commodities and sells it at a cheaper price increasing the supply, otherwise the demand will only be increased and the shoppe goes dormant if more shoppes are built because of higher prices and less profit marginals, if any at all.


When talking to zakilla I tried to point this out to him but he told me that I did not know what I was talking about as prices could only drop as more shoppes were placed. Basically from what he told me he it sounds like he only wants to fix the problems that can make him PoE in the process such as dropping shoppes.

As said on boyk's post there are much more effective ways of improving Alkaid's economy. Instead of dropping shoppes why not help support the shoppes that are already there, and encourage more stall openings? It could be effective to offer a % tax rebate on IM and distillery stalls (if trying to promote a more active market) or possibly spend PoE to ship in commodities at or below cost. This would lower the cost of production allowing for a larger profit margin and cheaper stock available at the island. This would also be more effective at accomplishing what you are trying and failing at by dropping multiple shoppes. Through the tax refund and shipping in of commodities, oppening stalls would become more worthwhile and pillaging would become cheaper.

Oh and before zakilla comes in here flaming about how I'm a socialist for suggesting him losing money in the process of shipping in commodities at a loss, I'd like to point out that you could make back the money spent shipping in commodities through the taxes of the newly opened stalls.
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-barcium

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[Jan 24, 2012 12:36:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Benarv

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Re: Your Thread

 

As said on boyk's post there are much more effective ways of improving Alkaid's economy.


I think anyone in the game who has even the slightest knowledge of the economics knows that dropping shoppes doesn't help the economy. Even Zakilla.

He drops shoppes because he wants to drop shoppes and tbh, while the island is his there is nothing you can do to stop him.

If you don't want Zakilla governing Alkaid, blockade him. If you don't want Zakilla winning the blockade, you may even have to consider jobbing for a side paying slightly less (Shock! Horror!).
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Pgoog says, "Hitch is the kind of guy who's nice to you...and you can't quite work out why"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Benarv at Jan 24, 2012 2:02:16 PM]
[Jan 24, 2012 2:01:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bestdamnfool

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Re: Your Thread

Loathe Edit: More regards to Happy Hour - they haven't posted their full plans for the island yet.
 
Bestdamnfool wrote:
Our plans for the island are not yet ready for announcement, but to start things off, we are setting the taxed to zero, as an introduction of your new government.

I expect that people will pay attention to those once they're posted.

Thanks Loathe for the warning!!! I am sure we will.

I hesitate to comment here, 1st because I do not know enuf about island economics to make an educated comment, and 2nd because dropping shops for a profit does not fit into our flags mentality.

When we decided to go for Armstrong, flaggies put their effort together, doing piratey things, and contributions raised the financing in an incredible week of activity and good will and help. When told we should not consider it unless we amassed the millions for defense they again put their effort into amazing team work and achieved it.

Armstrong has special meaning to many of our members who have long run succesful shops here, and has been my home since Lucicafer, Dassocaplaya, and Naqash 1st got their SY here years ago.
As well as Jjkrell, Croaker who have owned shops for some time here.

We have many ideas being considered, including buying existing shops for our flag rather than build new.

One thing I feel sure about is our intention to make sure that businesses are run at a profit, we set the tax rate to 0% to offset the BK's 100%.
Taxes have risen steadily since it was built, my promise is we intend to keep them low to make this a place people enjoy working out of.
I have faith in my flag members, who work hard and together, to make our flag POE, and do not forsee our stay here on Armstong as a profit making advernture, but rather a coming home for many, and a safe haven for others.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by bestdamnfool at Jan 24, 2012 6:41:11 PM]
[Jan 24, 2012 6:34:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Doulber

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Re: Your Thread

 
but rather a coming home for many, and a safe haven for others.


It pwotecs me fwom teh big scury monstas
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[Jan 25, 2012 8:47:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mezzzo

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Re: Your Thread

Soo...

On a serious note...

I am being honest at the beginning i was on the side "contra Zakilla"
But i had a nice talk with him.

And he explained everything very well to me.

Barcium, starting this thread was rather dumb.
If you would really like to know the plans and stuff you could of sent him NICE tells...

I acctually think, that you are desperate that he dropped on Alkaid and you did not, it was your plan. But you should be mad on Luxory then because he took it off the BK and you was scared to drop on Lux. Zakilla did it, maybe because he has the money for it. But we all know for cades you need money...

After all i dont think you started this thread to know the serious plans of Zakilla governeuring Alkaid you started this thread to put the finger on Zakilla to poull him down, prolly because you are jealous he has the money most of us PP player dont..and i also think this is a reason alot of ppl bitch in this thread....Only Boyk and Roket seemed to make some serious Posts, which were understandable and made sense

As much as i know zakilla now, he is a person with a big ego ( bad and good way) Prolly not as big as Dahlgren´s.

I would react exactly like him as well....

He likes it if ppl bitch on him...so he drops more because he likes to see ppl getting pissed of actions he is doing ...

Also he is Gov of Alkaid he can do it....

Maybe it is not the best decision to do it the way he does, but its the way he plays the game...




inb4 tl;dr <3
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[Jan 25, 2012 10:18:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Inframan8

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Re: Your Thread

#dramallamaproblems
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[Jan 25, 2012 10:24:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rumbum3600

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Re: Your Thread

I agree, Mezzo. Though I hold my guns on not favoring either one of them.

But I think the REAL deal here is one of two options:

a) Barcium cannot drop or is afraid to drop, therefore he is trying to use any given flag to do his will.

b) He is trying to reel in more jobber support before he blockades.

My guess is option A.


Also, in repsonse to everyones reaction to Z's plans...
Did you ever consider the fact that he may have larger plans, and may be farming off Alkaid?
It is a possibility.

If someone doesn't like it, preferrably Barc, I say go blockade him. This may be my third time saying it.

Atleast now I know, thanks to Mezzo, it is possible to have a nice convo with Zakilla.
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Spiritofsail
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by rumbum3600 at Jan 25, 2012 12:22:15 PM]
[Jan 25, 2012 12:21:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Benarv

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Re: Your Thread

 
Soo...

On a serious note...

I am being honest at the beginning i was on the side "contra Zakilla"
But i had a nice talk with him.

And he explained everything very well to me.

Barcium, starting this thread was rather dumb.
If you would really like to know the plans and stuff you could of sent him NICE tells...

I acctually think, that you are desperate that he dropped on Alkaid and you did not, it was your plan. But you should be mad on Luxory then because he took it off the BK and you was scared to drop on Lux. Zakilla did it, maybe because he has the money for it. But we all know for cades you need money...

After all i dont think you started this thread to know the serious plans of Zakilla governeuring Alkaid you started this thread to put the finger on Zakilla to poull him down, prolly because you are jealous he has the money most of us PP player dont..and i also think this is a reason alot of ppl bitch in this thread....Only Boyk and Roket seemed to make some serious Posts, which were understandable and made sense

As much as i know zakilla now, he is a person with a big ego ( bad and good way) Prolly not as big as Dahlgren´s.

I would react exactly like him as well....

He likes it if ppl bitch on him...so he drops more because he likes to see ppl getting pissed of actions he is doing ...

Also he is Gov of Alkaid he can do it....

Maybe it is not the best decision to do it the way he does, but its the way he plays the game...




inb4 tl;dr <3


Mezzo, if it wasn't for the fact that you've recently trolled Barcium in a thread made specifically for him not too long ago for the sole reason that Puzzlar was bored, this post might actually have meant something.

Also, although Im not currently a member of the flag that you have referred to, I have my part in the running of it. It was never part of BTDT's plans to take Alkaid of either Lux or Zakilla. In fact, we made an agreement with Good Luck before they took it off the BK.

Oh and I was part of Zakilla's cade team that took Alkaid and have been a hearty of his for a while, so I have nothing against him. From what I've heard from Barcium, Zakilla has promised not to drop any shoppes other than the ones stated in his island plans. If this is the case, then the only grievances people could have is with the plans themselves. The answer to those, would be to take the island off him.
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Pgoog says, "Hitch is the kind of guy who's nice to you...and you can't quite work out why"
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