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fransalle

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

 
I think you might be confusing two things here. There is a difference between Narci handing out cheap IM shoppes for fintan's integration and VP calling out on Legacy paving. These are marginally different and it would be terribly confusing to mix them up.

Narci was in charge of Legacy's production, when we had outposts to stock. She had to make and move great orders of stock to different islands which needed it. So when she says that she would prefer shoppes to stalls, I simply think she means bulk orders. Also because the shoppe labour system is far simpler compared to that of a stall, which Im sure you all know, it is the optimum prerogative that we maintain this discussion from this outlook. At Fintan, Narci did what she could to integrated production of cannonballs within the island, with the consent of legacy. If she failed, she failed, but she tried and that is what counts.

Now the legacy approach for building shoppes is completely different. We do not care for island sanctity and preservation because that is not why those islands were opened. In a capitalist agenda, we would like to ensure we can make money as a functioning flag, and also allow those around us to do so. Including the people who might find it harder to get into the market, and stock production area, such as newer flags who might wish to take our place when we move on.

It is quantitative to analyze that the ocean has taken an agenda very similar to a monopsony. The fact that RM held kirin for nearly 2 years and did nothing but rebuild shoppes that trashed, simply for island sanctity, is wrong. It like a mosquito stuck in amber to phrase. It is wrong because there was no integration. The upcoming player does not get a chance to play, to put HIS views in the market, set his prices, thus set new standards.
This is a monopoly where only players with past records get to make money and dominate the market. Legacy does agree with the fact that while such players should maintain an upper hand, however there is no progress as to the interests of newer and less knowledgable players, who might have had a grander talent in merchanting but did not get a chance. With Shadymermady's grandiose tagline of how we make money and how we are rotten for it, is completely right. What she failed to point out is that there is nothing wrong with it. Will you bear down on us for playing the game as we think fit? I think this will be very hard for you.

I maintain on a simple standard that this is an extremist viewpoint. It is debatable and can have its demerits. In the end all what matters is good business. And everything else taken into account, its just good business, not personal feelings and painting easels. This is the viewpoint me and Avienda came to before I posted it. You cannot tell me Im wrong, you can simply find a theory more optimum to argue with its shortcomings.


I know its a bit late. But if all of this is for the Good of the island and of the people, why not use the poe you make off it for something good.

edit: also if it where for "healthy competition" it wouldnt b at 100%

edit2: Therefore not giving a shit for people, just for yourselves.
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Viridian
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Iwnabeu
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by fransalle at Jan 25, 2012 6:05:10 PM]
[Jan 25, 2012 6:01:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Narcissag

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

/em start to scrash her head

Fran we do, we cade :-)!
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Narci

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
[Jan 25, 2012 8:06:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aethonx



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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

Commend the efforts to try and dust some of the shoppes. Keep it up.
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Aethonx- Meridian
[Jan 25, 2012 9:14:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hillsmen

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

 
Including the people who might find it harder to get into the market, and stock production area, such as newer flags who might wish to take our place when we move on.


Flooding the island with shoppes only makes it harder to get into the market because you have to undercut the overstocked market already.


 
. The upcoming player does not get a chance to play, to put HIS views in the market, set his prices, thus set new standards.


http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Bazaar

Cheaper for new players. What is that? A way to enter the market? Can this be true?

Just about every player who makes a habit in running shoppes started with stalls. The majority of the "upcoming" players that you want to help do not have 2mil to buy a shoppe on Kirin. Or even 350k on Fintan, Laby, or Napi. Stalls are cheaper to buy and can be profitable. When you make them compete with mass amounts of shoppes, it isn't profitable for stall owners, therefore these upcoming players cannot make money.
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Captainrich
[Jan 25, 2012 9:39:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karal5

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

I was merely proposing a theory and then defending it. If you find it imperial enough to argue so passionately about it, I would rather allow you to have your way.
As an exponential of this, you can see, Legacy is already passing.
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Nag, Illi
[Jan 25, 2012 10:59:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Setsusa

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

It's pretty cool when people pull big words out to look cool, but it ruins their sentence. If that's what you want to call what Legacy is doing, fine.
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Cremate on Emerald.
Motou on Meridian.
Avatar by Elfeesh.
[Jan 26, 2012 4:25:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

Setsusa wrote: 
It's pretty cool when people pull big words out to look cool, but it ruins their sentence. If that's what you want to call what Legacy is doing, fine.
Quoted for truth, laughter, and agreement.

Furthermore, if you add or subtract enough exponentials in the complex plane, you get precisely what Legacy is, a simple harmonic oscillator that is not complex at all.

And to the-numbers-do-not-lie-Legacy: In the complex plane all numbers are multiplied by the square root of -1. This plane is closed to you, because where you are, this number is multiplied by zero. You are stuck in a one-dimensional world while the rest of us are not.

EDIT: Nagflar knows well and perhaps can explain to the denser parts of Legacy, that complex exponentials, complex planes, and harmonic oscillators are fancy words to say simple things. Without the ideas expressed so elegantly in these concepts our cell phones, cars, computers, civilization, etc. would not work.
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sverdrup at Jan 26, 2012 6:46:57 AM]
[Jan 26, 2012 6:20:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Narcissag

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

Sweety are you trying to said that you use the control theory for everything?

Good to know ^_^!
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Narci

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
[Jan 26, 2012 6:50:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

Narci wrote: 
Sweety are you trying to said that you use the control theory for everything?

Good to know ^_^!

No, cutie. Talk with Nagflar or Sueierto. They know as they have done their homework. You have not ... yet. Study harder where it matters as then you them may reap the benefits that pay bills.
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
[Jan 26, 2012 6:56:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Narcissag

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

I don't do Geometry math's saddly, they didin't pay the bills, other hand what i do now it does. :)!
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Narci

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
[Jan 26, 2012 7:00:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

The complex plane has nothing to do with geometry though. It's simply a function system to explain the situations around the number (or is it a letter?) i. For instance if Z=6+6i then you could place this in the first quadrant of the complex plane to further explain the math around it.

Oh, and Sverdrup's little joke about the harmonic oscillator. Basically the plane is made up from two axises, one to measure to real part of the number (that's the 6) which is the X-axis, and then you've got the Y-axis that measures the complex part of the number (that's the 6i). If you add or subtract exponentials in this plane, the location of the spot would due to fairly simple mathematics move up or down (the absolute value of the function or whatever you call it gets multiplied with the exponent thus moves twice, thrice etc as far away from origo (and vice versa)) just like a harmonic oscillator (for instance a normal spring) would.

Yay math+physics.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Jan 26, 2012 7:59:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
M_Cobain

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

 
The complex plane has nothing to do with geometry though. It's simply a function system to explain the situations around the number (or is it a letter?) i. For instance if Z=6+6i then you could place this in the first quadrant of the complex plane to further explain the math around it.

Oh, and Sverdrup's little joke about the harmonic oscillator. Basically the plane is made up from two axises, one to measure to real part of the number (that's the 6) which is the X-axis, and then you've got the Y-axis that measures the complex part of the number (that's the 6i). If you add or subtract exponentials in this plane, the location of the spot would due to fairly simple mathematics move up or down (the absolute value of the function or whatever you call it gets multiplied with the exponent thus moves twice, thrice etc as far away from origo (and vice versa)) just like a harmonic oscillator (for instance a normal spring) would.

Yay math+physics.


lol wow what a nerd u guys
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Martobain

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[Jan 26, 2012 8:24:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
killinfisher

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

 
 
The complex plane has nothing to do with geometry though. It's simply a function system to explain the situations around the number (or is it a letter?) i. For instance if Z=6+6i then you could place this in the first quadrant of the complex plane to further explain the math around it.

Oh, and Sverdrup's little joke about the harmonic oscillator. Basically the plane is made up from two axises, one to measure to real part of the number (that's the 6) which is the X-axis, and then you've got the Y-axis that measures the complex part of the number (that's the 6i). If you add or subtract exponentials in this plane, the location of the spot would due to fairly simple mathematics move up or down (the absolute value of the function or whatever you call it gets multiplied with the exponent thus moves twice, thrice etc as far away from origo (and vice versa)) just like a harmonic oscillator (for instance a normal spring) would.

Yay math+physics.


lol wow what a nerd u guys


I was expecting much more from you Marto. I am disappoint.
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Former Good Grief, Outcast member.

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[Jan 26, 2012 9:36:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    nevertall [Link]  Go to top 
LunEnvoy

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

Physics.... a philosopher and a mathematician had a fling and youth around the world were eternally doomed.

The math kids dont get the philosophy.
And the philosophers are like 'dude wtf I already understand this, why do I have to learn how to think of it like those of you who don't just naturally get it?'
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LoLune

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[Jan 26, 2012 9:57:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ezder

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

Following quotes are by Cremate/Motou/Setsusa.
 
While I think your example is on a lower scale than I was implying, ie: many large blockades cost upwards of 15 million nowadays, we'll go with these numbers anyways. We're talking about a 4 mill swing in one week here. Considering that one pirate can make that in one week, and on special occasions, in one day, I don't see how that's a big deal when you consider active blockade flags that should have income outside of poker and a credit card. It is the ocean that allows a flag to sit on an island for 2 years. Take some responsibility for yourself before making that excuse.

One pirate can make that, yes. But nothing stops a pirate in the flag that has the island from doing the same. No matter how you spin it, the flag that holds the island (and builds on it and/or keeps high taxes, but building is the big thing) has the upper hand because for the same amount of work, they do get a little more poe.

This gets even more obvious in SMA situations. When one alliance holds the majority of the islands (like AoD with RM/Boob in it after Vanguard died), the combined island incomes serves to make them even stronger by comparison, and lets them pay for a jobber lead in defenses, that serve to discourage attacks more than anything. At the same time, the flags that are outside of the SMA are almost powerless. If they manage to get an island, the SMA can easily beat back on them to "punish them for bad governing", but the minority flags can never successfully do the same. They can try but they will be outjobbed, they will lose, and they fill fight an uphill battle due to the island incomes that help fund the defenses.

On top of this, if anyone on the minority side needs a shoppe, the only one that can provide them with it is the SMA side. The firmer their grip of the islands, the higher the shoppe prices because there is no competition. This means that even more poe moves from minority to SMA.

An example of how discouraging this situation can be, especially for new flags, was when a flag actually tried to attack the SMA at Carmine (yes, Carmine) after it was sold within the alliance, and ended up spending 20 millions and losing. Both back then and now, I can only see that as a SMA wall that is kept high and fortified, making sure that noone breaks through, and that few even dare to try.

With an excess of shoppes on the market, it will be harder for any alliance to pull that off again, because they will not be able to monopolise the market in the same way. I'm not saying that it was wrong of them to do it (except for the trashing of others for doing the same) but noone in their right minds can say that the shoppes RM built and and sold on Kirin, Terra (only on rubble, ofc, since its Terra), Jubilee, Labyrinth Moors and Tigerleaf Mountain while in SMA did not matter for their defense funds or for people's willingness to attack them.
 
PS: 9999 on Napi was hot.

Thank you!
 
I don't think a child is going to be enough of a douchebag to piss off a lot of people, so the VP comment is also irrelevant.

Are you sure?

From my experience, it doesn't take a lot. Maybe he has a different accent, maybe he's fat, maybe he's too smart and knows all the answers in class, maybe he's black, maybe he has an odd taste in clothes, maybe he has ADHD and can't sit still... Any of these things can be enough for all the others to pick on him, and it rarely does much good.

We can leave that though. I didn't mean to get personal the way you chose to take it, and I will not keep up the discussion. I just wanted to state that negative communication only is a very destructive way to go about things.
 
No one gives a crap about how you govern aside form dropping shoppes for the wrong reasons.

Yeah, got you. VP style.
 
PS: If you don't have time to fully respond, then wait. I have a life, you have a life. Take your time and answer fully. My novel started at 9:30 am and finished around 12:45 pm, not straight, obviously. Can you at least make up better excuses?

This thread has passed 250 posts, many of them quite long. I'm pretty sure that the people who actually read it all are very, very few. Are you seriously complaining that not every novel is answered with another novel? If we all answered in detail to everything that we didn't quite agree with, or wanted to comment on, and still read all the posts, we wouldn't be doing anything else with our time.

And lastly, for Fifa:
Fifasmells wrote: 
Something about island beauty, open layout, and sacrificing the environment in the name of economy or profit

Seriously...

This is a game. Save the green pixels, for real?

If you want green, go outside. I promise, the graphics are amazing!
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Avienda
Nightmare/Legacy

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Qvintvs flag royalty chats, "I won't play for that much longer and when I quit, my pirate's dead body will be sent out at sea on a burning ship and let's face it, you will be on that ship as well.
[Jan 26, 2012 11:45:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

I think it's adorable that you mention RM and BOOB in the AoD but not one word about how they broke out of it. This is actually quite common and is a natural stage of the cycle we appear to go through here on Viridian. Players that I look up to, skilled players has throughout history upsetted the stagnancy that tends to settle every now and then (Notorious Fandango, Coerced Coexistence, RiddleMakers+BooB, and plenty other flags I'm forgetting to mention), most usually because they enjoy the art of blockading and whatnot. There are ways to beat your opponents that doesn't involve outfunding them, and as history repeatedly shows us people are able to overthrow regimes of great power. The island income does come into play slightly, but it hasn't stopped us before and I doubt it will in the future.

 
On top of this, if anyone on the minority side needs a shoppe, the only one that can provide them with it is the SMA side. The firmer their grip of the islands, the higher the shoppe prices because there is no competition. This means that even more poe moves from minority to SMA.

This is bullshit. There are other ways to getting a shoppe than dropping one. Take a peak at the bazaar, the place is usually littered with shoppe's for sale.


 
Fifasmells wrote:
Something about island beauty, open layout, and sacrificing the environment in the name of economy or profit

Seriously...

This is a game. Save the green pixels, for real?

If you want green, go outside. I promise, the graphics are amazing!

To see this coming from a self-declared vegan is quite interesting. This is a game, we can all see that, but that doesn't mean we should trash it for personal gain just because we can. An island holder has a responsibility towards not only those who helped them get the island, but the coming generations of Y!PP players that will play the game. If we continue at this rate every island will look like Terra and Napi and at some point, someone will have to clean up the mess we make. As always, if people fail to honour these responsibilities the community will turn against them (as they've done here).
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Jan 26, 2012 1:00:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
fifasmells

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

 
And lastly, for Fifa:
Fifasmells wrote: 
Something about island beauty, open layout, and sacrificing the environment in the name of economy or profit

Seriously...

This is a game. Save the green pixels, for real?

If you want green, go outside. I promise, the graphics are amazing!


I agree with Dahl , Think about the next waves of players. Im sure they will be thankful to those people who Builded so much on the islands on the past , that they might not even get to see how the island looks/looked like.

 
This is a game. Save the green pixels, for real?

If you want green, go outside. I promise, the graphics are amazing!


Thanks for clariffying to me that Legacy is basically about the Build build build pave the islands kind of people. And also i did not say only me would/enjoys this "As clean as posible" aspect of the islands , I know of many people who enjoy Having the chance to experience the islands layout. Just to show how Hypocrite you are thinking more on were/what/how to build on The islands and not giving shit about the rest of the people who enjoy and the newcomers that will come to the game and would enjoy looking at an island, Not a "So Full with buildings i cant really see if it is an island" kind of Island.

Good job Avienda. I hope i dont ever see another post of any of you , specially you avienda , How Anyone Else Builds/builded this or that at this or that rate like you did previously on this Thread , Or pointing your finger at Paving flags.


Oh and PS:i forgot to mention earlier on the Posts, You dont need to drop a shoppe for everyone to make it better on the market, (And i believe it was said by someone earlier in the thread too but cant remember if, so anyways ) You could of always gave the stall owners something back a % of the rent payments back or a reward of 2/3k (since you guys dont do it for the money but for "helping the ocean stall owners who want to upgrade" Giving them some kind of metary exchange weekly would help em enough to open a second/3rd stall or enough to buy more materials to keep those stall running smoothly and still keeping a high profit from all they do on the stall/s on their pocket.


Edit : Fixing words adding some stuff

As you were asking before of some issues that were valid on why building so much was bad, I gave ya one, But i see its better to Have a lol at someone when they give you a good point rather than taking it into consideration. But hey. Its legacy.
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What A R.......R....Real bad joke. BTW Rose already paid her chocodebt

Now on Facebook!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by fifasmells at Jan 26, 2012 1:32:43 PM]
[Jan 26, 2012 1:27:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
fifasmells

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

Double post, I know.

Just wanted to say. Its pretty Awesome to see KO Dusting shoppes to fix some of the island looks (or thats how i see it) and others who dont G.A.F and Take those kind of efforts and whippe their Booty's with it.

Helping People You Say.
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What A R.......R....Real bad joke. BTW Rose already paid her chocodebt

Now on Facebook!
[Jan 26, 2012 1:44:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LunEnvoy

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

 
I think it's adorable that you mention RM and BOOB in the AoD but not one word about how they broke out of it. This is actually quite common and is a natural stage of the cycle we appear to go through here on Viridian. Players that I look up to, skilled players has throughout history upsetted the stagnancy that tends to settle every now and then (Notorious Fandango, Coerced Coexistence, RiddleMakers+BooB, and plenty other flags I'm forgetting to mention), most usually because they enjoy the art of blockading and whatnot. There are ways to beat your opponents that doesn't involve outfunding them, and as history repeatedly shows us people are able to overthrow regimes of great power. The island income does come into play slightly, but it hasn't stopped us before and I doubt it will in the future.

Toot toot. tooooot. tooot toot tooooot. toot toot. and oh yeah toot.
Um. RM/BooB outside of the AoD wasnt really an SMA and therefor would not have been relevant to the subject of SMAs controlling the majority of islands.
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LoLune

I'm still just the guard dog. I bite. They shoot.
[Jan 26, 2012 2:08:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
glittertjess

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

Bought another weavery (Tactically Weaving), dusting in 18 days. Total 5 shoppes now - 2 Weaveries, 2 Shipyards and 1 IM.
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Cairna
Monarch of Knockout on Meridian & Emerald
Loiosch says, "when do we ci"
Karthika says, "cai might spank me if i do"
[Jan 29, 2012 4:25:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kenjennings

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

Out of interest, what kind of state are these shoppes in? Are you buying shoppes that have been run at a profit and contributed to the island's economy or shoppes that have barely been used/were sitting dark? Are you having to pry these out of the owner's hands or are they pretty willing to offload these deeds? It would provide interesting insight into the state of shoppekeeping on paved islands.
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[removed by SOPA]
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shadymermady

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

Tactically Weaving was a P4P Weavery. It hasnt been used except maybe as storage for over 6 months.
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Betty - Obsidian

Crip tells ye, "bout to turn on my balls warmer.."
[Jan 29, 2012 9:19:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
glittertjess

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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

 
Out of interest, what kind of state are these shoppes in? Are you buying shoppes that have been run at a profit and contributed to the island's economy or shoppes that have barely been used/were sitting dark? Are you having to pry these out of the owner's hands or are they pretty willing to offload these deeds? It would provide interesting insight into the state of shoppekeeping on paved islands.


Shipyards:

1. Fleet of Agamemnon - This was dropped recently in January 2012. Looks like it was going to be used for buillding flag fleet of the owner. However, they only made 2 brigs during the 8 days they owned it. The owner asked me if I was interesed in buying it.

2. Leviathan's lathe - It seems that this shoppe was storing paints/cloths and selling some ships/bludgeons. In the last week of ownership, it got orders of 2 sloops and 1 bludgeon. The owner then sold all the hold dockside and advertised the shoppe for sale @ Lima inn.

Weaveries:

1. Tactically Weaving - Unused and taxes were unpaid for 2 weeks. The owner was going to event away the shoppe but ended up selling to us for a cheap price to dust it instead. This shoppe will be the first one to dust (18 days) even though we bought it this weekend.

2. Arachne's Web - Shoppe placed in January 2012. Untouched for the week it paid rent. The owner asked me to buy it for a cheap price to dust.

Iron Monger:

*Weapons for the Myrmidon's - Another shoppe placed in January 2012 used for flag production. Produced 1000 mcbs (but it wasn't priced to sell) and had some minerals. The owner sold all the stocks dockside (cbs included) and asked me if I wanted to buy.

Other than this, 2-3 shoppes have been dark for almost 2 weeks with dormant owners/managers. So we should be able to dust atleast 8 by the time blockades are enabled again.
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Cairna
Monarch of Knockout on Meridian & Emerald
Loiosch says, "when do we ci"
Karthika says, "cai might spank me if i do"
[Jan 30, 2012 1:35:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bobdonnell

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Joined: Jan 9, 2006
Posts: 630
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Re: *Knockout's intent for Labby/Terra*

I find it funny how most of these shops bought back were all built this month, really highlights how bad the state of the island is at the moment.
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Avatar by the Beautiful Velternal <3

Vsmeifudare says, "hi"
Nightwishtwo says, "drop dead"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by bobdonnell at Jan 30, 2012 3:58:55 AM]
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