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boback

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1 Day Protest Reply to this Post
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I implore Three Rings Design / Sega to cut services for a day to make people aware of the impending SOPA act (Bill 3261) and the consequences of such, i personally am not from America, but if this Act is imposed it will cause ramifications globally,

SOPA will give media cartels more leverage to extract payments out of Youtube and file locker services. "Pay us or we will shut you down".

SOPA legalizes mafia like extortion by media companies, without going through the courts. Instead of suing the infringing website, SOPA pushes liability on to third parties and allows media companies to go after payment processors, advertising networks, internet service providers and web hosts; without having to make legal challenges against the "infringing" website.

Third parties will not accept this legal liability and will instead refuse to do business with small companies who receive SOPA notices. This ensures that much of the user dominated content market will be left to larger companies such as Google and Facebook, which have the resources to indemnify third parties of losses and legal fees under SOPA.

SOPA creates new liabilities that will push startups out of the user generated content and media space. This has already happened to Canadian technology companies, when Canada adapted SOPA like provision. SOPA specifically targets startups like Etsy and Vimeo.

Under the SOPA bill, third parties will be forced to terminate services to legitimate and legal businesses which are targeted by frivolous
SOPA notices, because of the legal liabilities the notice generates, regardless of the merit of the claims make in the SOPA notice.

SOPA should be renamed the "Media Cartel Shakedown Act of 2011", because it gives content owners the ability to shut down internet companies without going through the court system and proving infringement claims

The SOPA bill also creates an internet black list of websites and IP addresses which ISPs must prevent their customers from accessing.

This will be used to block access to wikileaks and other journalism and whistle blowing websites, on the pretense of copyright.

The SOPA bill gives the government and corporations the ability to censor embarrassing documents from the internet.
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Orbsus

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[Jan 19, 2012 3:44:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thisis50

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Re: 1 Day Protest Reply to this Post
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tl;dr
[Jan 19, 2012 3:51:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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SOPA will give media cartels more leverage to extract payments out of Youtube and file locker services. "Pay us or we will shut you down".

You mean, oh horrors, YouTube might actually have to pay attention to how many people put blatantly pirated stuff on their site?

Wikipedia's shutdown was asinine, given that they claimed to be politically neutral. Asking a site that people pay to use-- especially one that actually cares about honoring copyright laws-- to cut services isn't all that much better.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Jan 19, 2012 4:49:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TheRack

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Wikipedia's shutdown was asinine, given that they claimed to be politically neutral.

Wikipedia stepping away from a politically neutral standpoint on an issue that directly effects it is no different to any other normally non political, non profit organization taking a stand on a directly relevant issue. For example, a charity dedicated to providing reading lessons to the underprivileged should normally stay out of politics, but would be entirely justified in speaking out against a book tax leading to the poor being unable to afford reading material.

Wikipedia would be justified in speaking out against any other change that runs contrary, or heavily impede, its stated goals. For example, Wikipedia would be justified in speaking against a law that required approval from a government body to publish written work about a politician.
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Cephalopod, on poker, wrote: 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: it isn't rigged.

Period. End of story.

[Jan 19, 2012 5:57:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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You mean, oh horrors, YouTube might actually have to pay attention to how many people put blatantly pirated stuff on their site?

Youtube does pay attention to videos that violate copyrights. They have developed extensive systems to make it easy for copyright owners to monitor and take down infringing works, and they respond quickly to requests. The vast majority of videos are not infringing. Sure, the vast majority of videos are also crap, but 80% of everything is crap. The infringing videos on youtube are largely those who the copyright owners don't care about.

What SOPA would do is require youtube to actively monitor every upload and censor anything that may possibly be infringing, even if the copyright owners don't care. OOO would have to do similar things to every forum post here. Any links to infringing sites can cause your entire domain to be shut down.

This would mean that not only would copyright owners be given a government granted monopoly, but the burden of protecting that monopoly would shift to everyone else.

 
Wikipedia's shutdown was asinine, given that they claimed to be politically neutral. Asking a site that people pay to use-- especially one that actually cares about honoring copyright laws-- to cut services isn't all that much better.

It is not at all surprising to me that wikipedia cares deeply about things like SOPA. Most of the most important people in the free software movement also care deeply about copyrights. In part, since these people don't make money off of their software, they are very vunerable to SLAPP lawsuits. While youtube could, in theory, hire enough people to monitor a greatly reduced number of videos being uploaded, there is no way that wikipedia could survive the demands of SOPA.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Jan 19, 2012 6:19:05 AM]
[Jan 19, 2012 6:16:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hurtboss4

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Oh my God, I agree with Orbsus. time2throwmyselfoutofmordorh3h3
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And, scene.
*lights out*
[Jan 19, 2012 6:52:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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You mean, oh horrors, YouTube might actually have to pay attention to how many people put blatantly pirated stuff on their site?

Youtube does pay attention to videos that violate copyrights. They have developed extensive systems to make it easy for copyright owners to monitor and take down infringing works, and they respond quickly to requests. The vast majority of videos are not infringing. Sure, the vast majority of videos are also crap, but 80% of everything is crap. The infringing videos on youtube are largely those who the copyright owners don't care about.

What SOPA would do is require youtube to actively monitor every upload and censor anything that may possibly be infringing, even if the copyright owners don't care.

OK, let me back off a hair from my overly snarky hair-trigger response and put a bit more perspective here.

Copyright violation actually does affect me personally. My wife is a professional author, and two of my daughters are artists who may end up doing art professionally once they graduate. When Google decided to tippy-toe around copyright (and moved over the line, in many authors' opinions) on just about all print media, my wife had me sit down and help her explore the mess and what she was going to do about it.

Now, that's mostly a sideline to the real problems, but it does bias me against the big companies. The big problems, though, are that as it currently stands, the artist bears essentially all the responsibility of tracking down violations of copyright and is required to do so if he wants to keep his copyright, and that there are very few penalties on individuals that are actually enforced. YouTube may work to get rid of copyrighted materials-- but since the author needs to find the violations, and having actual civil/criminal penalties delivered is rare enough that it gets media attention when it happens, there's a whole lot of infringment that goes on because most people know that the odds of anything bad happening to them for breaking the law are minute. (And while I've picked on YouTube, there are a lot more sites out there who range from willing to work with artists but not able to do much more than suspend accounts, up the scale to sites who actively promote copyright violation, and pretty much sneer at law enforcement as they do so. YouTube just happened to be a well-known site where I've seen a lot of violations personally.)

SOPA, as it currently stands, probably isn't the best way to approach the situation. But it's a situation that needs addressing badly. And I still think that OOO making any sort of public statement against it isn't in their best interests.

Personally, I would beef up the penalty end of things for people doing the uploading, not the companies running the sites, so long as those companies do work with law enforcement to help find the violators.


The TL;DR version: Some day, OOO may be in a position where they have to enforce their copyright. Doing anything to protest a copyright-strengthening law (even if that law needs serious revision) can come back to bite them in the booty, so they shouldn't do it.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by xelto at Jan 19, 2012 3:18:15 PM]
[Jan 19, 2012 3:16:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hillsmen

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I hope you realize SEGA is part of the ESA, which publicly announced support of SOPA.
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Captainrich
[Jan 19, 2012 3:19:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jolyma

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NOt a direct comment on SOPA/PIPA because I haven't read the laws....


But I would be all for something that strengthens the ability to stop copyright infringment. I'm not all preachy about it, but I don't pirate anything (well, except pixilated ships, but then we're on a pirate game forums). I've never illegally downloaded anything to watch, to read, to listen to. I don't judge the people that do. In my own personal opinion, it's stealing from the person that owns the rights. They get paid when the material sells.

I am friends with an old rocker. He was in some major bands in the 60's, and co-wrote songs like Yummy Yummy Yummy, Mony, Mony and Crystal Blue Persuasion. He's been divorced a couple times (which means his ex wives are living well), retired from a 'real' job, and while waiting until retirement age, was working and was laid off. He was able to at least keep the wolves from the door on residuals from his songs.

People think what they're doing is harmless, but it's not. And if they can come up with a reasonable law then I will be for it. From what I have heard, SOPA does not work the way it was intended, and could lead to some serious censorship.
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Jolyma

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[Jan 19, 2012 3:49:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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The TL;DR version: Some day, OOO may be in a position where they have to enforce their copyright. Doing anything to protest a copyright-strengthening law (even if that law needs serious revision) can come back to bite them in the booty, so they shouldn't do it.


 
Some day, we may be in a position where we need to be defended against terrorists. Doing anything to protest a national security law (even if that law needs serious revision) can come back to bite us in the booty, so we shouldn't do it.


 
Some day, we may be in a position where we need to pay taxes on dividends. Doing anything to protest a dividend tax hike (even if that law needs serious revision) can come back to bite us in the booty, so we shouldn't do it.


In any case, it should be abundantly clear that the protest is about the implementation, not the intent. The protest isn't over whether we should shut down those giant overseas online repositories of pirated media. The protest is because the law doesn't actually shut down those repositories, but instead targets sites and companies that happen to sit between those repositories and pirates, even if those sites and companies provide legitimate services, and their position in between the two guilty parties is purely incidental. And even after it takes out its rage on these parties caught in the middle, it doesn't actually prevent pirates from connecting directly to these repositories.

Back to analogy land: I'm sure we could all get behind a pill that cures cancer. But if a pill claims to cure cancer but instead causes internal hemorrhaging while leaving the cancer untouched, shouldn't we be blowing the whistle on that pill and its makers?
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[Jan 19, 2012 4:13:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Copyright violation actually does affect me personally. My wife is a professional author, and two of my daughters are artists who may end up doing art professionally once they graduate.

First are you saying you have had people violate your wife's copyrights?

Second, copyright status effects me also. A large chunk of my income comes from stuff I have authored, but that stuff would not have been possible if there wasn't a huge base of stuff that had lapsed into the public domain. In the past, I was also a part owner of a software company, but it depended more on licensing than copyrights. I have also been on the internet and internet-like systems since the 1970s, and have grown up with people violating copyrights and debating copyrights. I can see several sides of these issues.

 
The big problems, though, are that as it currently stands, the artist bears essentially all the responsibility of tracking down violations of copyright and is required to do so if he wants to keep his copyright, and that there are very few penalties on individuals that are actually enforced.

Well, that is one of the differences between real property and "intellectual" property. If someone takes your car, you will probably notice quite quickly, but if someone copies your work, well, you aren't really hurt, so you don't notice.

Even still, the police don't go around looking for stolen property, they react once people have reported a theft. Indeed, there are centuries old legal concepts of "adverse possession, which basically says that if you don't notice someone has your stuff for long enough, well, then it is no longer yours. Making copyright owners do the same thing isn't out of line at all. If the money you make off of a copyrighted work doesn't cover the effort needed to pursue violators, then your work really isn't valuable enough to worry about.

What things like SOPA do is the equivalent of requiring landlords to make sure that none of their tenants have any stolen property and if any do, they could lose their building. It is completely unreasonable to have anyone other than the copyright holder do the work of finding out about copyright violations. Sure, once the copyright holder notice, it is reasonable to have the justice system and other involved parties start working on the problem also, but the "safe harbor" provisions of the DMCA is one of the very good things about that law.

Copyrights (and other IP) are government granted monopolies. The founding fathers never intended for people who scribble a few lyrics 20 or 50 years ago should still be getting residuals. The set up a deal, in exchange for giving out those government granted monopolies *for a limited time*, society (we, the people) would get more useful stuff in the public domain that could be built upon.

I understand that authors who didn't grow up on the internet would like to see copyrights go on as long as possible, but the handwriting is on the wall. The current generations don't see it that way and enforcement is becoming far too costly. The war on copyright pirates is less effective and will likely be far less successful than the war on drugs, or legalized segregation, or declaring gays to be mentally ill, or eliminating porn, or any of many other similar things.

You simply can't win a war when the vast majority (and growing percentage) of the population thinks the war is wrong. Authors need to rethink how to do things in a life without effective copyrights, because they can't go back to the 1970s. We certainly don't need laws that are so deeply technologically and logistically flawed SOPA. Even though I can understand why copyright holders think there needs "more protection", SOPA is unworkable.

 
And I still think that OOO making any sort of public statement against it isn't in their best interests.

This, I agree with. The blackout raised the level of awareness, there is little need for OOO to do anything, pro or con.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Jan 19, 2012 4:52:19 PM]
[Jan 19, 2012 4:48:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jezzebel

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I know Whirled doesn't make a lot of money, but if SOPA passes, it would certainly LOSE Three Rings a lot. 90% of the shop is some form of copyright violation.
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Redjenny, Now merged with Health Nutz
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[Jan 19, 2012 6:52:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Barrister

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Algol wrote: 
Youtube does pay attention to videos that violate copyrights. They have developed extensive systems to make it easy for copyright owners to monitor and take down infringing works, and they respond quickly to requests. The vast majority of videos are not infringing. Sure, the vast majority of videos are also crap, but 80% of everything is crap. The infringing videos on youtube are largely those who the copyright owners don't care about.

I may regret posting this, but I work in the YouTube group responsible for copyright management. We pay a lot of attention to this issue.

As for xelto's original post, if you are a copyright holder and your audio/video has been posted to YouTube and the usual procedures aren't working for you, please contact me ASAP. If it's broken, I want to know.

Please do not contact me about material owned by other individuals or companies. Many companies permit the use of their material in exchange for ad revenue or simple publicity. Some go so far as hiring outside marketing agencies to upload bootleg-style videos in order to simulate an illicit upload (but really they're authorized).
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Barrister
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[Jan 19, 2012 9:44:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
PinGyp

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If SOPA-like bill gets passed (RTPodcast claims there are rumours of SOPA being joined it with some kind of protecting child from pedos on web bill, so that you can't actually vote no to that), it's not going to be as 'dangerous' to internet as it was originally planned, so mafia stuff is likely out of question.

That said, I'm all against SOPA, but bugs me that people make too much of it. Of course, I'm probably bugging people who are annoyed by those, who take it too lightly :P
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by PinGyp at Jan 26, 2012 6:07:18 AM]
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