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Quitex

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Blokade pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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The reason I am not posting this on GD is because I believe it's the best to discuss it here.

The 9999 Poe/Segment cap, is it there due to coding (as the 32k-ish per commodity limit is) or because OOO had envisioned there should be a limit regarding jobber pay?

If it's the first then I understand it's going to be that way, if it's not then why is it 9999? I feel there shouldn't be a limit for the amount a flag wishes to pay their jobbers.

Discuss.
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Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice.
Monarch of Cows
Joly wrote: 
Someone asked why Quitex would do this as a rogue. All I can say is, well, he's QUITEX! No one knows what he will do next, ESPECIALLY Quitex.

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Quitex at Dec 4, 2011 12:52:08 PM]
[Dec 4, 2011 8:30:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dwizzles

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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I knew somebody would bring this up after the last two weekends. I think having a limit is the best way to go, or you'd see flags start at 15k a seg or something crazy just to try and bully people out of the game.
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[Dec 4, 2011 9:11:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Abandonment

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Having seen what was spent this weekend, I'd say 9999 should be kept as a limit.

If anything, I'd personally like to see it reduced so smaller flags at least have a faint hope they can compete in the blockade scene.
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Priapus/Guantanamo
[Dec 4, 2011 9:19:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Auntyjemima

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Maybe have different caps depending on island size?

Outpost-2999

Medium-4999

Large-9999
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[Dec 4, 2011 9:58:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Quitex

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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But then, if they can afford it, why not pay it? At the end is their PoE. We've seen two (three?) blockades hit 9999 during three different weekends. Pay-capping the blockades is not a good idea because different flags use different tactics to win and if a flag is not wealthy enough to blockade a large island, then, why would they?

Then again, if a flag believes an island is worth 15k/segment, why not lettem???
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Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice.
Monarch of Cows
Joly wrote: 
Someone asked why Quitex would do this as a rogue. All I can say is, well, he's QUITEX! No one knows what he will do next, ESPECIALLY Quitex.

[Dec 4, 2011 12:21:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
riku743

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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A lot of people in today's blockade scene believe that wealthiness should not be as much of a factor in blockades as it is. 9999 is a ridiculous amount already, compared to maybe 1k/8 minutes at a well-run interarch pillage.
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[Dec 4, 2011 12:34:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TheRack

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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At what point do you drop a chest, field just enough ships to claim your legitimately attacking, and then tell all your hearties to go job with the defender and have a profitable weekend?

Heck, drop a chest, actively job for the defender during rounds 1 and 2 to partially fund the attack, and then legitimately attack from round 3 onwards...
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Cephalopod, on poker, wrote: 
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Period. End of story.

[Dec 5, 2011 6:22:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Quitex

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Therack wrote: 
At what point do you drop a chest, field just enough ships to claim your legitimately attacking, and then tell all your hearties to go job with the defender and have a profitable weekend?

Heck, drop a chest, actively job for the defender during rounds 1 and 2 to partially fund the attack, and then legitimately attack from round 3 onwards...


Oh Lord Jesus...
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Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice.
Monarch of Cows
Joly wrote: 
Someone asked why Quitex would do this as a rogue. All I can say is, well, he's QUITEX! No one knows what he will do next, ESPECIALLY Quitex.

[Dec 5, 2011 7:18:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Furare

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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I think posting a thread like this should disallow you from complaining about how the blockade scene isn't healthy enough for a certain period of time.
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[Dec 5, 2011 8:13:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Talisker

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Robert Donald, 2005 wrote: 
We've never lost a blockade where we've paid 5k a round.




As a question, if someone wants to pay more, what's to stop an old fashioned pay ship type thing?
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Leif
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Gunnermooch wrote: 
I can't respond because I do not understand what the hell you are talking about. Sorry.

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[Dec 5, 2011 10:56:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Elliptic

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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We ban them? Or, alternatively, that's no argument for making something intrinsically awful easier?

Honestly, Leaf, you're well-intentioned and all but you might want to try thinking a step or two down the line.
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[Dec 5, 2011 11:35:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Talisker

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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We ban them? Or, alternatively, that's no argument for making something intrinsically awful easier?

Honestly, Leaf, you're well-intentioned and all but you might want to try thinking a step or two down the line.


More intended as a suggestion for the high payers. 50k/round is just silly.

Unless you mean this. In which case I take full credit/blame for being the guy who wanted to exceed the original cap.
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Leif
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Gunnermooch wrote: 
I can't respond because I do not understand what the hell you are talking about. Sorry.

Av by Ecastasy
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Talisker at Dec 5, 2011 12:00:03 PM]
[Dec 5, 2011 11:55:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fixated

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Then again, if a flag believes an island is worth 15k/segment, why not lettem???


I don't think any flag honestly wants to pay this (or even 9999 a seg) for an island. They want to pay only what they have to pay in order to take an island, and competition with another flag or the lack of jobbers in general pushes the pay up substantially. You never really see people going against BK paying obscene amounts of PoE, because they really don't have to, there's no competition and they're the only people to job for.

Frankly, I'm all for lowering the pay cap. Blockading is extremely fun, but extremely hard work sometimes, and very draining in PoE and assets (also, if you lose, you get absolutely nothing). In fact (and people might disagree with this) I think making blockading cheaper in general (in the form of the PoE or maybe some sort of non-monetary reward for blockading) would be beneficial to the game.

 
As a question, if someone wants to pay more, what's to stop an old fashioned pay ship type thing?


I think the game in general has gotten to the point where we'll all kind of...lazy. Now that the blockade pay system has been put into effect and jobbers are able to be certain (with reserves and such) about pay for blockades, I don't know how many people you would be able to trust to actually give you that /pay. Also, again, see the lazy part.
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Jenx
[Dec 5, 2011 1:05:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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These weekends has been quite extraordinary since there has been no "there's always next weekend" factor. Due to the fact that the outcomes of these blockades will be final the desperation regarding victory increases dramatically.

Trust me, these are not going to become common occurances in the blockade scene. From now on, any blockade victory can to the maximum bring the winner two shoppe's whereas there were previously an inn and the oppurtunity to brand your name into Y!PP history.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Dec 5, 2011 1:14:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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^

YPP will, in all probability, never see another full scale, max pay blockade.
[Dec 5, 2011 1:18:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Disgraced

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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^

YPP will, in all probability, never see another full scale, max pay blockade.


Unless Ksb wants to defend Napi again.

Edit: To fix sentence structure.
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Bunnyspawn, prince of Coherent Insanity on Meridian.

Jdilla's wench on Emerald.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Disgraced at Dec 5, 2011 8:58:56 PM]
[Dec 5, 2011 2:05:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Ksb has Napi.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Dec 5, 2011 6:07:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Alesanaftw

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Trust me, these are not going to become common occurances in the blockade scene. From now on, any blockade victory can to the maximum bring the winner two shoppe's whereas there were previously an inn and the oppurtunity to brand your name into Y!PP history.


At least for another year until they decide to open up another island possibly.
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[Dec 5, 2011 6:20:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Quitex

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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I think posting a thread like this should disallow you from complaining about how the blockade scene isn't healthy enough for a certain period of time.


Oooh baby, the last time I seriously complained about the lack of blockades was like what, a year and a half ago? ;)
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Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice.
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Joly wrote: 
Someone asked why Quitex would do this as a rogue. All I can say is, well, he's QUITEX! No one knows what he will do next, ESPECIALLY Quitex.

[Dec 5, 2011 6:47:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Randomite

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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I know nobody is really complaining about it here, but I actually think the recent blockade levels have been pretty decent.

The problem is, when you're paying 50k/round per jobber it's already extremely expensive, and the main reason it usually ends up at 10k/seg is if it ends the whole paywarring thing and just gets it over and done with. If the limit was raised to say 20k/seg, (dramatic raise i know,) then it would become even more so about who could afford the blockade the most. 20k/seg with 500 jobbers (which you tend to get with 10k/seg) would cost you 50 mil a round. I don't think that'd be a good move for the kade scene, people would be either too scared to defend or too scared to drop.

There's the other point about how it effects the amount of jobbers in the kade crew and how they're used too. 500 jobbers a side is 10 frigs (thereabouts,) and ten frigs a side is really more than enough to cover each point in a kade. In terms of communication, it's already extremely difficult to manage that amount of ships, it gives each navver about 3 seconds to announce their move and that has to be in co-ordination, and even if you divide into rooms in vent, it's very hard to keep track of who is around you + who it is you need to be talking to. Any more than that is just insane to be honest.

I think if anything the limit should be lowered to 7.5k/seg, it would still drag out the hordes, maybe about 100 jobbers less, but it still provides the large scale blockade, just perhaps makes life easier on the communication side of things if you don't get as many jobbers. If you do get as many jobbers, it saves the flags money and we get more blockades. (Though it would still be very expensive, i'll admit.)
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Disengaged.

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[Dec 6, 2011 3:30:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Honestly guys. There's no need to fix what isn't broken.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Dec 6, 2011 6:46:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
pillyforme

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Honestly guys. There's no need to fix what isn't broken.

But most of the time you can improve what isn't broken.
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[Dec 6, 2011 10:25:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kenjennings

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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As a question, if someone wants to pay more, what's to stop an old fashioned pay ship type thing?
The fact that these flags were fielding 10 frigs with a total of at least 500 jobbers.
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[Dec 6, 2011 7:17:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Honestly guys. There's no need to fix what isn't broken.

But most of the time you can improve what isn't broken.

Improvement on this matter is very relative. What you do is basically shift the balance between the necessity of fundraising and jobbing support. The result of this is that you end up pissing off all the people that specialize in either by picking the other. Since the system is working just fine, there is no need to spend time tweaking something that needs no tweaking when there are so much other bugs and general problems in the game.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Dec 7, 2011 6:27:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nooblar

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Do remember, that when kade pay was first coded, 500 a seg was a paywar. Kades started out paying 100 a seg for mediums and you'd get 150+ people a side. 1k at any island would get people logging in from other oceans, etc.

This is not to say that there should or shouldn't be a cap, simply that when it was originally coded, 9999 was ten times more than most people had seen at a large 'high paying kade', not five times what it took to make someone bother applying.
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[Dec 7, 2011 5:05:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Randomite

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Do remember, that when kade pay was first coded, 500 a seg was a paywar. Kades started out paying 100 a seg for mediums and you'd get 150+ people a side. 1k at any island would get people logging in from other oceans, etc.

This is not to say that there should or shouldn't be a cap, simply that when it was originally coded, 9999 was ten times more than most people had seen at a large 'high paying kade', not five times what it took to make someone bother applying.


With regards to the past, perhaps the reason the pay has become that way now is down to either a declining player base, therefore it being harder to attract any jobbers, or the fact that there is just more poe around than there used to be so people tend to use it or be less bothered about earning it.

Perhaps a lower cap would help to bring back the idea that the lower end of the pay-scale blockades still pay fairly well for the time they use.
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Disengaged.

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[Dec 7, 2011 5:09:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nooblar

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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With regards to the past, perhaps the reason the pay has become that way now is down to either a declining player base, therefore it being harder to attract any jobbers, or the fact that there is just more poe around than there used to be so people tend to use it or be less bothered about earning it.

Perhaps a lower cap would help to bring back the idea that the lower end of the pay-scale blockades still pay fairly well for the time they use.


I'd say that it is because the fountains exceed the sinks, and that poker funnels the PoE into central points, even after a blockade spreads it back out. More and more focus on large boats, combined with a lowering player base, also meant fewer, but richer, top level navers.

Plus old school, people were hand paid, and were interested in politics, etc. If you wanted people to job, you had to ask them. There was an atmosphere of 'we've should to help them, because they helped us'. You wouldn't even know what the rewards for jobbing were unless the blockading flag informed you somehow. These days it is much easier to fill a blockade fleet without talking to anyone (see, random alt no one has heard of offering 5k fills a frig, well known flags don't get jobbers until the frig fills, or they match 5k). In the start, two well connected flags could fill their boats at 100 a seg. But then some jerk could fill at 500 anyways. So then well connected flags could match and also pay 500, and do better. But then the jerks could go 1k, and 1k isn't a ton, so the connected type flags would match that. But then suddenly when it is two politically minded flags in a 1v1, the jobbers had a taste of 1k a seg. They don't want to job for 100. So then 500 becomes a norm. Then 1k, etc etc.

Maybe i'm just nostalgic for when the game was awesome, though :(
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[Dec 7, 2011 6:50:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Quitex

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Cap the max-pay to the amount of players logged in the game, times X? IMO, X=3.

So if only 500 players are online, max pay per segment is 1.5k.

If 1000 players are online, max pay is 3k.

If 2000 players are online, max pay is 6k.

And so on...
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Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice.
Monarch of Cows
Joly wrote: 
Someone asked why Quitex would do this as a rogue. All I can say is, well, he's QUITEX! No one knows what he will do next, ESPECIALLY Quitex.

[Dec 7, 2011 7:25:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nooblar

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Cap the max-pay to the amount of players logged in the game, times X? IMO, X=3.

So if only 500 players are online, max pay per segment is 1.5k.

If 1000 players are online, max pay is 3k.

If 2000 players are online, max pay is 6k.

And so on...

Except flags with player large base in australia and europe would gain large blockade advantages, as they have more social contact with players in that timeframe, and by dropping on a mainly american timezone flag, the american flag would lack the political contacts awake at that time of day, and also wouldn't be able to use pay to catch up.

Which I suppose isn't a terrible thing, but it is a thing that would potentially happen.
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[Dec 7, 2011 8:27:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TheRack

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Re: Bloakde pay -- 9999 not enough? Reply to this Post
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Except flags with player large base in australia and europe would gain large blockade advantages, as they have more social contact with players in that timeframe, and by dropping on a mainly american timezone flag, the american flag would lack the political contacts awake at that time of day, and also wouldn't be able to use pay to catch up.

Which I suppose isn't a terrible thing, but it is a thing that would potentially happen.

Meanwhile, the American flags just drop the next weekend...
----------------------------------------
Cephalopod, on poker, wrote: 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: it isn't rigged.

Period. End of story.

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