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M_Cobain

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

 
I give up. You people are too stupid or too stubborn to pay attention.

Believe what you will. I've said my bit.

I look forward to future posts about how ridpvp is somehow a shared account used by Legacy to harass everyone because we're just so damn evil.


So now you hate all black people and asians too?!
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Martobain

YPPedia improved with Tom Cruise the Elephant (who's my friend and buddy) catalogue!
[Nov 2, 2011 9:37:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aethonx



Joined: Mar 9, 2008
Posts: 190
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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

Not to mention those with an unhealthy elephant fetish.
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Aethonx- Meridian
[Nov 2, 2011 9:37:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
M_Cobain

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

 
Not to mention those with an unhealthy elephant fetish.


We must stop this, right now.
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Martobain

YPPedia improved with Tom Cruise the Elephant (who's my friend and buddy) catalogue!
[Nov 2, 2011 9:38:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LunEnvoy

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

Whats the worst part of an elephant to get slapped by?
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LoLune

I'm still just the guard dog. I bite. They shoot.
[Nov 2, 2011 9:40:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
M_Cobain

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

 
Whats the worst part of an elephant to get slapped by?


In the case of Tom Cruise the Elephant (who's my friend and buddy), probably either his affection organ or his love, because both are heavy and blunt, like something that falls on you out of a tree.
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Martobain

YPPedia improved with Tom Cruise the Elephant (who's my friend and buddy) catalogue!
[Nov 2, 2011 9:43:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

Has anyone actually looked at Ridpvp's crew records? The vast majority of his battles are sloop vs sloop, 4v4 and even the occasional advantage-Ridpvp battle. There is little, if no risk taking involved at all. Yet another Legacy cop-out.
[Nov 2, 2011 10:38:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kamuflaro

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

 
 
 
So basically, it's to protect the crew PvP ranking.


Stop... Please.
It is to protect it from NON-SERIOUS PVP. I often go out PLANNING to LOSE battles to larger opponents.
That would not please anyone.



You plan to lose? Great plan!

O.o Looks like great minds think alike...
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Avatar by Twiztedrose
Forum mute - your shot at the waves of spam (also works on threads)
[Nov 2, 2011 10:40:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ezder

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

Yes, we protect our PvP rank.

Yes, we put restrictions on who can PvP, and how.

We also have restrictions (stats and others) on who can join or not, and who gets a promotion or not. We have restrictions on who is allowed to pillage or not. We have restrictions on who is allowed to job on our pillages and not.

Our PvP rank is a reflection of the way we PvP. It is NOT a correct reflection of what would happen if all members went out and PvPd freely, that is true. In the same way, the look of the crew does not represent fairly how it would look if anyone who asked to join, was invited. Nor does it fairly represent how it would look, if people who lack manners would not be disciplined or expelled. And our reputation as a pillage crew does not fairly represent how it would be, if anyone who wanted to could be a Nightmare officer and go pillage, with any jobbers they want.

I admit it. I willingly do.

What's your problem?
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Avienda
Nightmare/Legacy

Naggy avatar

Qvintvs flag royalty chats, "I won't play for that much longer and when I quit, my pirate's dead body will be sent out at sea on a burning ship and let's face it, you will be on that ship as well.
[Nov 2, 2011 11:35:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

Avienda wrote: 
What's your problem?

My first problem is to watch yet another ocean killed by the arrogance of hypocritical elitist elites.

My second problem is how game design marginalizes those training and recruiting crews that actually entrain more new players than they lose older players emphasizing skill instead of elitist attitudes.

There is a relation between problem #1 and #2. More details can be found at this outstanding recent post in Global Parley (by Pizzahutpete/Marundel):

http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=174063&offset=250#2423921

EDIT: More concise wording.
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sverdrup at Nov 2, 2011 12:24:49 PM]
[Nov 2, 2011 12:20:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

+1 to Sver

I oppose stat protection because it does not adequately reflect true skill. Nightmare's Imperial ranking is artificial; it does not reflect the true skill level of the crew's members. Nightmare's rank merely reflects a few short PvP runs with good match ups; an individual PvPer can get his crew up to Imp in very little time with the right conditions. For a flag that like's to pride itself on its ability, it certainly does not have faith in said ability.
[Nov 2, 2011 12:38:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
M_Cobain

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

 
Avienda wrote: 
What's your problem?

My first problem is to watch yet another ocean killed by the arrogance of hypocritical elitist elites.

My second problem is how game design marginalizes those training and recruiting crews that actually entrain more new players than they lose older players emphasizing skill instead of elitist attitudes.

There is a relation between problem #1 and #2. More details can be found at this outstanding recent post in Global Parley (by Pizzahutpete/Marundel):

http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=174063&offset=250#2423921

EDIT: More concise wording.


I agree that elitist attitudes cause problems, seeing how it excludes the new players. It doesn't take a brilliant mind to understand that the new players of today are the players of the future (lol YES WE CAN). There are also a lot of good points in the post you linked to, which follows the same conclusion as you do.
However, when looking through the eyes of an experienced player, there aren't a lot of incentives for him or her to actually go through with the thought that today's player is the player of tomorrow, or however you want to put it. When you are playing the same game for six years, and you've reached a point where you are above average mainly due the long time you've been playing, you've lost a part of the patience you still had when you started playing. I'm trying to find a better word to describe it, but my vocabulary sucks too hard.

When I just became an officer, I enjoyed training and helping other players the most, when I was still learning and experiencing new types of gameplay myself. Once you've learned the things you wanted to learn (not saying you can learn everything there is to learn in this game, I'm just saying that a person only wants to learn to a certain point), and you try to find new challenges in the game, it's hard to look at new players with the same eyes as you did when you were still 'one of them'.

I believe most 'elitist' players are less friendly and more focussed on their own challenges, merely because they can't find the motivation to teach others, or to play with people that don't play the game the way they do. This post on itself seems to be pretty auto-biographic, though I don't see myself as a standard 'elitist', seeing as I enjoy the interaction between people the most in this game, rather than performing well at the puzzles. I do find myself 'bored' of most of the things the game has to offer, because I've been playing this game for (too) long.

I think the best thing a new player can do is be patient with the people who've been playing the game for longer than they did, as they can expect patience from their side aswell when they do. I personally still love to help new players with the game, when they show a mutual interest in the things I do. When they don't come up with the patience that's needed to perform on most of these puzzles (some of them take longer to learn than others), I'm not sure if they'd enjoy the game in the long run anyway.

tl;dr: Get off these forums or stop being lazy, just read the whole damn post. Also, your mother told me to tell you that the cookies you left on the stairs were pretty delicous. She just wondered why they were on the stairs, but she'll leave you a voicemail on your phone about it.
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Martobain

YPPedia improved with Tom Cruise the Elephant (who's my friend and buddy) catalogue!
[Nov 2, 2011 1:01:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Setsusa

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

 
Yes, we protect our PvP rank.

So pixels do matter to you?

Yes, we put restrictions on who can PvP, and how.

See above.

We also have restrictions (stats and others) on who can join or not, and who gets a promotion or not. We have restrictions on who is allowed to pillage or not. We have restrictions on who is allowed to job on our pillages and not.

The parts about who can get a promotion or not is fine. If the restrictions on who can pillage are the same as those to who can get a promotion, then that's fine too. However if you promote someone to officer or FO and tell them they are not allowed to pillage without someone holding their hand, that's a tad ridiculous. As for who can job/join, if these restrictions are limited to "Do they have a good personality? Are they a total douche?" then that's fine because most people make the pass. If it is however more stat based, then your elitist attitude is disappointing to witness.

Our PvP rank is a reflection of the way we PvP. It is NOT a correct reflection of what would happen if all members went out and PvPd freely, that is true. In the same way, the look of the crew does not represent fairly how it would look if anyone who asked to join, was invited. Nor does it fairly represent how it would look, if people who lack manners would not be disciplined or expelled. And our reputation as a pillage crew does not fairly represent how it would be, if anyone who wanted to could be a Nightmare officer and go pillage, with any jobbers they want.

So starting off, your false PvP rank is a reflection of how false your crew is? Or are you saying its a reflection of "If you put enough restrictions on who touches this, you can do anything!" Tell me something. How is a pillage crew as you refer to Nightmare, a pillage crew, if it does not wholeheartedly promote pillaging? If you have so many restrictions on who can pillage then are you not limiting the ability of your crew as a whole to be a pillage crew? It sounds more like a jobber pool for a few people, and the people who those upper people see fit to have the ability to join in the fun. That is not a pillage crew. While I agree that if you have a jobber who's being a tool in any regard and asks to join, saying no is probably the best option, but as is implied, if you have someone who is a decent person but "insufficient" stats and you personally don't allow them in, I don't see how you can possibly claim to be a pillage crew. Pillages are about jobbers, about getting into the game and having fun, not winning every fight to have a pretty battle record or PvP ranking that hardly says anything about the crew. Real pillage crews are those ones that a lot of people look at and go "lol, 40 officers, bunch of greenies" but they're out non-stop with whoever wants to go. Games are supposed to be fun, not about being the best. Man this is getting repetitive.

I admit it. I willingly do.

+1 for you for not lying about it.

What's your problem?

By this point, I think you know, but let me lay it out in a tl;dr fashion. You said to me in game that you weren't one of those uptight drama girls in high school (lol this isn't a personal attack this is an analogy) so then why are you being uptight about a pixellated ranking that most people know means next to nothing. Just because your PvP rank might be sailors because the majority of people are learning doesn't mean your crew sucks. There'dstill be the top people who are capable of bringing it up to that Imperial ranking, but sacrificing a ranking that has a very vague measure and comparison system for more fun for more people is totally worth it in my eyes, whether you disagree or not, I think you are being unfair to the majority of your crew and hampering their growth. Personal experience far outweighs handholding.

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Cremate on Emerald.
Motou on Meridian.
Avatar by Elfeesh.
[Nov 2, 2011 1:10:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

Marto:

You just described beautifully the difference between "elite" and "elitist." There can be overlap as demonstrated in Avienda's post, but the two are not the same, as you demonstrated.

And yes, I do admit that after 5 years of playing and fighting wind-mills, it does get tiring, but as my infamous fellow village idiot Don Quixote said in 1615: "The proof of the pudding is the eating."

;-)
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
[Nov 2, 2011 1:16:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
visioon

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

Though i agree with about everything cremate said, the fact is that the rules or restrictions within a crew are of no concern to the politics or the ocean as a whole.
A crew is a place where people with similar mindsets gather to play the game. The captain (and in some crew the SOs) created these rules to play together in what they feel is the most efficient and 'fun' way.

Besides the obvious clueless officer in Nightmare, the way that crew is governed has little effect on the ocean whatsoever ... if you exclude the mass gathering of ego and arrogance.

The moment that officer felt the need to use an alt for something that can easilly be done with the main was the moment he was in the wrong crew. This was and is the only problem.
Since i assume the officer (seriously, i just can't remember his name) likes hanging around with the people in Nightmare he should have used his crew to join Legacy while being able to pvp.
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Just passing by, no funny or smart quotes here.
[Nov 2, 2011 1:30:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Setsusa

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

Agreed it has nothing to do with the ocean's politics, I just feel that what Avienda is saying her crew is and what it proves to be are two different things, and the people here are questioning her about it by expressing their personal views. Whether we get a level-headed response or not is up to her and the members of Nightmare who would know more about it than any of us would.

I was under the impression said officer was told or strongly suggested to not pillage (or perhaps specifically PvP) in Nightmare to protect a PvP ranking, which I would view as wrong, but I don't have the whole of that story so I'm not gonna nitpick into it.
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Cremate on Emerald.
Motou on Meridian.
Avatar by Elfeesh.
[Nov 2, 2011 1:52:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kenjennings

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

If anyone's really so hard-pressed to discuss pvp rank protection, go start a thread in Global Parley or somewhere else. While I don't really agree with it, I don't think it belongs in this conversation, much less in a political context. If you're really bothered by it, hunt them. I imagine they may run often but that's valid as well and don't harass them in-game over it. You're likely to just get yourself in trouble.

And for the record, I also think Ridpvp's (I'm sorry, I don't know your main and can't log on to check) attempt to separate forealsies from noforealsies pvp battles is silly.
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[removed by SOPA]
[Nov 2, 2011 2:39:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LunEnvoy

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

Why wouldnt it belong here?
I dont care how its done on sage. If I wanted to play cobalt style id switch oceans. Wait, I dont have money for that so, say hunter.

Point is- half of vp, like this thread, is pretty stupid/pointless.
But think about it- its necessary to the life of vp.
And I love my vp.
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LoLune

I'm still just the guard dog. I bite. They shoot.
[Nov 2, 2011 3:13:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ezder

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

Cremate (and ayone else who is concerned, but primarily Cremate due to the nature of his post), there are hundreds of crews out there who accept anyone who wants to join. There are, for sure, at least dozens of crews that let you be officer if you own a boat, or have narrow experience in a few puzzles, and aren't even that strict on the "narrow". There are probably as many crews who shout "If you want to join the crew, come to the wheel!" after each voyage, and who even dockpress for recruits. There are also many crews such as the "pillage crew" you described. If you want to join a crew like that, you have plenty to choose from because so many players want to be a captain, and do anything to get and keep members.

But you can't have one type of crew or flag, that fits everyone. Many of the officers, and even pirates and cabin persons of Nightmare have been members or captains of such crews, but grown tired of it. Many have been monarchs of their own flags, but decided that they're done with that and are happier in the atmosphere that is Nightmare now.

When I mentioned our reputation as a pillage crew, I didn't mean as a crew that is constantly on the water. I meant that when a potential jobber sees Nightmare on the notice board, he or she knows that the pillage will be interarch, run by a G-M+ b-naver, and selective on the jobbing, and that all Nightmare pillagers are told to be polite to their jobbers, and considerate about jobbers' stats. They know what they get if they apply, and that is our reputation as a pillage crew. And to that end (and because we think that Imperials of Illustrious fame looks cool), yes, we have people who are officer for the flagchat etc, but not allowed to pillage.

And you can hunt us, sure, go for it! But we will run. Even if we didn't care for the PvP rank, we care about our jobbers and very few pillage jobbers enjoy an hourlong 6v6 elite puzzler PvP, that inevitably ends in a max-max SF, and in either half of the booty being lost, or nothing at all.

But either way, how Nightmare is run internally is really totally irrelevant to oceanwide politics, and should be none of your concern.

Up to you if you want to see this as a heated reply or not.
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Avienda
Nightmare/Legacy

Naggy avatar

Qvintvs flag royalty chats, "I won't play for that much longer and when I quit, my pirate's dead body will be sent out at sea on a burning ship and let's face it, you will be on that ship as well.
[Nov 3, 2011 12:31:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Setsusa

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Re: Good to see a healthy change in the cade scene!

All I see is the first half of your post laying out how your crew is an elite PvE pillage crew, not a "for everyone" pillage crew, but against elite PvPs. So seems messed up to me, rest of it was fine.
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Cremate on Emerald.
Motou on Meridian.
Avatar by Elfeesh.
[Nov 3, 2011 4:58:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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