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false_dmitri

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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Yngve6 wrote: 
So what you are saying is, that it is fear of dropping nr of players on the other dub oceans that has lead to this desperate act of 'stealing' greenies from mala. Well those where my thought exactly. So perhaps the other dub oceans don't rock as much as you would like us to believe. Otherwise why worry?

It's fear of losing hundreds of potential new customers due to false first impressions that the game is already dead. Imagine that green players were dumped onto a totally new ocean with no shops, ships, crews, etc. They would all have a chance to stay and discover how to play the game from scratch, but wouldn't most just play 5 minutes, get bored with the navy, and quit? People who think they gave the game a fair chance won't make a special effort to try other servers before quitting. Everyone wants them to see the game at its best so that they become a permanent player, no matter what ocean they end up on.
 
I think that most of you have been playing this game for so long that you have forgotten what it is like to be new to this game. I'm convinced that newcommers are perfectly happy with navy missions, ordinary sloop pillies, fighting bots and such.

Navy missions and bot SF are okay for the first 30 minutes but get old very quickly. New players need access to the player content.
 
And as they gain experience they will start hopping oceans and perhaps move. But that will be up to them.

That works both ways, though. New players who think an ocean is too built up can move to a frontier environment once the game gets its hooks in.

I don't have any idea if Malachite keeps or loses Steam players at a different rate than the bigger oceans. The risk of early boredom is surely higher, but that reveals nothing about the actual numbers. All I'm trying to explain is the concerns driving "greenie theft".
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On hiatus. :(
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by false_dmitri at Sep 6, 2011 9:47:16 AM]
[Sep 6, 2011 9:45:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Decency

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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I imagine that finding out the OMs still care about Malachite was a big slap in the face for most of you.

However, all you worrywusses are fussing over is whether we'll be able to retain the population.

Having played Malachite on and off for almost a year and a half, I can tell you that we had to fight for every last bloody greenie we got.

TBF I wouldn't be surprised if the whole of Malachite was better at retaining greenies than all of you!

Currently, we have 2 crews on the ocean now with 100+ members, and at least 2-3 with 60-80. ALL of these crews have been active and have kept these numbers (with slight variations) ALL YEAR*.

What I don't understand is this underestimation of Malachite. Never understimate anything! We've achieved a hell of a lot in our own right! Also, Moedefoe, I noticed your forum signature. I think that is a snide remark which really goes to show how much people degrade Malachite. Malachite is not a thing, it is an ocean, played by people, just like you.

I honestly can't understand what's wrong with you Non-Malachiteans. You're just going to argue until you're blue in the face, and then argue more? It isn't going to change anything. GET OVER IT.

*This does not apply to the 100+ crews, as they are sister crews, and one is a branch of the other. This crew used to have 80-90 members before the influx.
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Decency: All over the place

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[Sep 6, 2011 10:45:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
atoms12123

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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Imagine that green players were dumped onto a totally new ocean with no shops, ships, crews, etc. They would all have a chance to stay and discover how to play the game from scratch, but wouldn't most just play 5 minutes, get bored with the navy, and quit? People who think they gave the game a fair chance won't make a special effort to try other servers before quitting. Everyone wants them to see the game at its best so that they become a permanent player, no matter what ocean they end up on.



That's an awful analogy, because Mala does have all that stuff, and constant pillies, as a greenie, you're not going to be just in the navy.
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[Sep 6, 2011 11:05:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Atoms12123    Atoms12123 [Link]  Go to top 
Yngve6

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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It's fear of losing hundreds of potential new customers due to false first impressions that the game is already dead. Imagine that green players were dumped onto a totally new ocean with no shops, ships, crews, etc. They would all have a chance to stay and discover how to play the game from scratch, but wouldn't most just play 5 minutes, get bored with the navy, and quit? People who think they gave the game a fair chance won't make a special effort to try other servers before quitting. Everyone wants them to see the game at its best so that they become a permanent player, no matter what ocean they end up on.

Navy missions and bot SF are okay for the first 30 minutes but get old very quickly. New players need access to the player content.

ROFL have you ever been to mala? We have shops, tourneys and O.O we even have crews. You make it sound like mala is completely deserted.

At the risk of repeating myself, which I hate. Why worry about losing a hundred or so potential new customer. It's not your pockets they fill. If your ocean is doing just fine atm, I wouldn't worry about it any longer.
If your ocean is not in the best shape however ... follow the advice some of you have given us malachites.
 
Like I said, make your ocean more appealing and people won't give it up for another.

FIX IT!
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[Sep 6, 2011 11:20:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
false_dmitri

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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I'm not trying to say what Malachite is really like, just what's driving people's concerns in this thread. It's not "You have our players!" It's more "You aren't retaining potential players!" Even if that's inaccurate.

To put it another way, saying "they're our players to lose" is as selfish as saying "you aren't entitled to new players." What's best for the game is for all of the new players to keep playing, no matter where they start and end up. This is a temporary spike in player numbers. Soon enough it will level off again, and we'll be back to slow attrition.
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On hiatus. :(
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by false_dmitri at Sep 6, 2011 11:27:06 AM]
[Sep 6, 2011 11:21:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Decency

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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No, they aren't our players to lose, I agree. However, that doesn't necessarily make you more or less entitled to players when your ocean has almost 3 times as many even with our population boost.
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[Sep 6, 2011 12:51:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dylan

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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I'm not trying to say what Malachite is really like, just what's driving people's concerns in this thread. It's not "You have our players!" It's more "You aren't retaining potential players!" Even if that's inaccurate.

To put it another way, saying "they're our players to lose" is as selfish as saying "you aren't entitled to new players." What's best for the game is for all of the new players to keep playing, no matter where they start and end up. This is a temporary spike in player numbers. Soon enough it will level off again, and we'll be back to slow attrition.


Sheesh you frustrate me.

I suppose if I had arrived on Viridian as it is now any time in the last 10 years (of my life, not in YPP), I'd have run off screaming. At least that's what I've done every time I've been to an inn on Viridian, and that has NOT been the case for any of the other doubloon oceans.

But I don't know the cool kids on Viridian, and joking apart, just because your inns are full of spammy pre-teens which will scare away any wannabe gamer, the fundamental point I am trying to make is that although the community is important, any so-called "gamer" who likes the game but not the community, and who is potentially a paying customer, is not so stupid as to be unaware that there are other oceans, including being able to research just exactly how a subscription ocean does NOT have microtransactions. The client doesn't exactly force you to play on one dub ocean ferever either.

Tired of the complaining as opposed to recruiting yer own hearties to play with.
[Sep 6, 2011 2:00:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Demonboyred

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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I'm not trying to say what Malachite is really like, just what's driving people's concerns in this thread. It's not "You have our players!" It's more "You aren't retaining potential players!" Even if that's inaccurate.


This could be said of Viridian as well.
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[Sep 6, 2011 3:02:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lotsofgoats

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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Having played Malachite on and off for almost a year and a half...

:3

You guys are making this way more fun than it should be.
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[Sep 6, 2011 4:18:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kenjennings

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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Yngve6 wrote: 
I think that most of you have been playing this game for so long that you have forgotten what it is like to be new to this game. I'm convinced that newcommers are perfectly happy with navy missions, ordinary sloop pillies, fighting bots and such.
And I'm not. When I was new, I preferred pillages on larger ships. It's a mixed bag, however, it is better for them to have as many options available as possible. Not to say that Malachite does not offer them but I disagreed with your conclusion there. You're regressing back to the fundamental argument over playstyle and preferences.

And "you already have enough [for now]" isn't really a valid response. The oceans' populations need new blood to maintain their numbers and keep them up when older generations retire. It's crucial to retain as many players as possible, particularly during a spike in new players such as this one now. I am also in the boat of people with nothing against Malachite, but wary of its ability to retain players and sustain such a(n) (relatively) unbalanced greenie population.

Malachite should still receive greenies, the concern is whether Malachite can match more populated oceans (with more available activities at a given moment and in higher frequencies overall) in retaining greenies and accordingly, whether Malachite should receive the same number or a reduced fraction of greenies compared to the more populated oceans.

Dylan wrote: 
the fundamental point I am trying to make is that although the community is important, any so-called "gamer" who likes the game but not the community, and who is potentially a paying customer, is not so stupid as to be unaware that there are other oceans, including being able to research just exactly how a subscription ocean does NOT have microtransactions
I think you're expecting a bit much from a new player. Based on my experiences, I wouldn't expect most of the experienced "gamer" players I run into to be informed on certain matters relating to the game, much less a new player.
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[Sep 6, 2011 5:38:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cnuofesd

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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Make greenie spawns proportional to a 24 point moving average over the last day.

This way you get greenies spawning on an ocean that will be active at their time, and in this way get a fair distribution of all the new players.
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[Sep 7, 2011 10:01:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dwizzles

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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Welp, all of this might not even matter anymore. YPP is apparently off the front page of Steam and the greenies influx has slowed down a ton. Currently 62 greenies on Hunter.

Any idea if this is a temporary thing or was the game only saved for a week? I don't really know anything about Steam.
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[Sep 8, 2011 6:11:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Itch86



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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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Welp, all of this might not even matter anymore. YPP is apparently off the front page of Steam and the greenies influx has slowed down a ton. Currently 62 greenies on Hunter.

Any idea if this is a temporary thing or was the game only saved for a week? I don't really know anything about Steam.


Well, we wont see as many Steam Greenies now. there will still be a trickle though. PP is on this thread i found which lists free steam games, so maybe a few people would find it.
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[Sep 8, 2011 10:27:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randomact

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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Looking at the activity tracker for the month, things seem to be going downhill after the initial burst. I think it's too early to call it a fail, though.
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[Sep 9, 2011 12:25:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
abacadafa

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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Looking at the activity tracker for the month, things seem to be going downhill after the initial burst. I think it's too early to call it a fail, though.


1) I'd wait for this upcoming weekend to be over, at least. YPP does best on weekends.

2) The population goes down every September, with school and all. Breaking even or just going slightly downhill would actually be a huge success.
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[Sep 9, 2011 9:29:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
false_dmitri

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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Waaaay too early to draw any conclusions, although the biggest rush is probably over. Look at past weeks. Population will drop during weeks and go up on weekends. We don't know how many players each day are brand new or how many are returning. Give it a few months, and see what other promotions come along.

Going by activity tracker, if population holds steady where it is right now, game's still up several hundred *average* players online over where it was last September. That's a big improvement. If it plunges downward below where it was prior to Steam, sound the doom bells.
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[Sep 9, 2011 11:21:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
abacadafa

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Going by activity tracker, if population holds steady where it is right now, game's still up several hundred *average* players online over where it was last September. That's a big improvement. If it plunges downward below where it was prior to Steam, sound the doom bells.


I just checked the YPP Steam achievements page .

Steam Achievement: Full Steam Ahead
Participate in a voyage and win a Sea Battle. Welcome to Puzzle Pirates!
% of all players: 16.0%

That's a pretty high bounce rate. Only 9.2% of Steam players have bothered to use the skelly amulet, and it just gets worse from there.

I think the doom bells are still due to ring--though adding a few hundred people from Steam will likely buy an extra year or so.
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[Sep 9, 2011 12:48:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dylan

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That's a pretty high bounce rate.


No. 99% is high. 84% isn't half bad.
[Sep 9, 2011 12:57:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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98.3% of Steam players not puzzling long enough to get a single Broad isn't promising.
[Sep 9, 2011 1:08:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dylan

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98.3% of Steam players not puzzling long enough to get a single Broad isn't promising.


I know how to lie with statistics; you don't.

1.7% of Steam players managed it in bilging, are you suggesting that only those who managed it in bilging also managed the 1.3% and 1.2% etc for other puzzles? Because if more than 1% have Broad in 3+ puzzles, that is pretty good early retention. Remember that new players don't necessarily do the same thing all the time, too.

Also, if that is 1% of say 30 million steam users, suddenly it doesn't look quite as bad.

I still do not understand the people who believe that a game is dead/dying because only thousands of people play it. This is a good game. Sure, after a few thousand hours it gets a bit samey.
[Sep 9, 2011 1:23:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
abacadafa

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Re: Regarding the Spawning of the New Greenie Influx Reply to this Post
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I know how to lie with statistics; you don't.
(snip)
Also, if that is 1% of say 30 million steam users, suddenly it doesn't look quite as bad.


The idea of 300,000 people getting a broad in under two weeks when there hasn't been 1,000 simultaneous Steam users on YPP, ever? Um, ooookaaay.

 
I still do not understand the people who believe that a game is dead/dying because only thousands of people play it. This is a good game. Sure, after a few thousand hours it gets a bit samey.


1) When there's been over two years of near constant decline with few signs of change, people start noticing a pattern.

2) You could call it a game with thousands of players or, more accurately, several copies of the same game sharing thousands of users. OOO has managed to divided and conquer itself. Midnight, Cobalt and Malachite players are noticing that a lack of players is interfering with gameplay.
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Karnisov

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Chiptharip wrote: 
98.3% of Steam players not puzzling long enough to get a single Broad isn't promising.


its looking like the steam crowd has already moved on for the most part. 431 concurrent players on a saturday, a significant percentage of those are probably not new players, and only 2 spots away from falling off the steam chart completely.

i think the devs need to get realistic about the fact that puzzle pirates does not have broad appeal due to its dated graphics and mentally intensive gameplay (compared to other mmos). the devs need to stop with the "lets get more greenies" focus and start focusing the development efforts on current player retention through core gameplay fixes and new content. less general neglect of the game would also be good. seriously no more useless bandaids, OOO.
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Karnisov
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[Sep 10, 2011 10:03:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lotsofgoats

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Why would they want to retain the current players when they're all so darn whiny?


:3
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[Sep 10, 2011 10:05:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dylan

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i think the devs need to get realistic about the fact that puzzle pirates does not have broad appeal due to its dated graphics and mentally intensive gameplay (compared to other mmos).


Although you are correct on the latter point to some degree, the graphics are most definitely not "dated".

WoW, now there is a game which looks dated.

All games aiming at the MMO sphere cannot afford to look as good as any FPS in terms of content, because they cannot assume that everyone will have a decent graphics card. Back when YPP came out, it was an option for people without any graphics card at all; nowadays many of the older MMOs, such as WoW, are just about playable with integrated graphics.

What this means for YPP is that where once they competed only with text MUDs for some gamers (and let me tell you, text MUDs have very dated graphics indeed; some of the characters look like they were designed in Roman times - not Times New Roman; Romans as in Romans Go Home) now they are competing with everything.

Similarly, when Viridian was opened, it was very much an experiment; one not worth spending the resources on to make a design distinct to Coblat. Now, there are dozens upon dozens of games competing in the "f2p" space which OOO was one of the pioneers of (at least in "the west", I am aware that Asia has multiple markets).

Back when I was little, every book of card games listed two types of poker: draw and stud. I'm sure these groups will continue to thrive for a long time to come, but I don't expect them to become wildly popular on late night television any time soon.

OOO can't make people play their games, beyond making them insanely addictive. The nice thing about YPP is that it has no grind as such, so as long as you can play a single (duty?) puzzle well, you can commit to what you want, and play as you want. WoWcrack? There isn't really all that much variation there.

I think the people complaining need to get realistic about the fact that puzzle pirates can be appealing to demographics one might not expect, and to TELL those people about it. Players, tell yer grannies and aunties, yer card-playing relatives, not to forget people who play games and post their achievements upon the Tome of Visages.
[Sep 10, 2011 11:07:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
abacadafa

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OOO can't make people play their games, beyond making them insanely addictive. The nice thing about YPP is that it has no grind as such, so as long as you can play a single (duty?) puzzle well, you can commit to what you want, and play as you want. WoWcrack? There isn't really all that much variation there.


With an stereotypical MMO, you can switch from damage-dealer to healer to crowd-controller, etc.

YPP has brought variety to just a few puzzles. Swordfighting got the most tweaks (5 color Atlantis, garbage blocks on haunted seas). TD had holes added, etc. My favorite tweak is CI speed foraging...

...but, what about the core puzzles? Sailing? Same. (Rigging is nice for a bit of variety, though). Bilging? Same. Carp? Same.

Would it kill OOO to have a few routes where the sailing platforms are different from the same old, same old?
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[Sep 11, 2011 9:13:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
abacadafa

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its looking like the steam crowd has already moved on for the most part. 431 concurrent players on a saturday, a significant percentage of those are probably not new players, and only 2 spots away from falling off the steam chart completely.


It's official--Puzzle Pirates has fallen off the top 100 chart. It might claw its way back on later, but it's not on it now.
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awright

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Just because Y!PP is not on the top 100 list on steam dosn't mean it is not still generating new players. Out of those players who are attracted by steam there will deffinatly be some long term players.

Also look how many greenies there are? There are more greenies than greeters for once. You can thank steam for that regardless of where Y!PP is on it's list.
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-barcium

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[Sep 13, 2011 3:03:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chrustschov

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*Me votes for hardreset on all oceans and shutting down mala for good.
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Dwizzles

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*Me votes for hardreset on all oceans and shutting down mala for good.


That will just prolong the same problems we are facing today.

Three Rings needs some core game play changes to help retain newer players and also keep older players around. Until that happens, they can combine into one ocean and population will continue to decrease.
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[Oct 31, 2011 9:55:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karnisov

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Dwizzles wrote: 

Three Rings needs some core game play changes to help retain newer players and also keep older players around. Until that happens, they can combine into one ocean and population will continue to decrease.


yup.
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Karnisov
flinging poo on the forums because its more fun than playing your broken game
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