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fifasmells

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Joined: Jul 4, 2010
Posts: 146
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Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan

 
Keepyaheadup on viridian babe feel free to send me a tell.

Will do when i get on
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What A R.......R....Real bad joke. BTW Rose already paid her chocodebt

Now on Facebook!
[Aug 16, 2011 7:13:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Justrock

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Joined: Mar 18, 2010
Posts: 8
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Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan

For an Intro, I have never posted on the forums before but i simply felt like it. Here's my point as a former legacy member(Prior to this blockade):

The thing is simply that many of us here(Including me) don't agree with the way legacy run their blockades. I have seen some fair blockades involving legacy but the one at harmattan was completely unfair for UC and TFF. Why in the whole wide world would anyone raise pay to 4k(on a medium) and most importantly while outjobbing both competing flags by such a huge amount of jobbers? I'm sorry avi and Q but the story of UC, TFF and DLAM teaming up just does'nt make it. Stand up for what you guys are worth for(well what i THOUGHT you were worth) and don't try to make up stories and tell lies but instead just bear the consequences.

I hope to see a change in such a nice flag's way of blockading in the future.

Sincerely.:)
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Sage - Proness
Current Monarch of UA

Virid - Divided
Member of Dilemma!

Hunter - Divyofvirid
[Aug 16, 2011 10:01:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Captanharris

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Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 457
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Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan



remind you of anybody?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Captanharris at Aug 17, 2011 4:40:58 AM]
[Aug 17, 2011 4:38:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shadymermady

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Joined: Dec 1, 2007
Posts: 716
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Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan

yes :(
----------------------------------------
Betty - Obsidian

Crip tells ye, "bout to turn on my balls warmer.."
[Aug 17, 2011 6:09:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Elliptic

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Joined: Jun 1, 2007
Posts: 981
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Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan

bump

I was not at this blockade.

Some observations:
  • Videos have to be edited down or they will be too big to upload. The hourglass time was necessarily edited out on the Youtube video for space and to avoid the headache-inducing flitting-about-the-board that takes place when the ships aren't moving. This led to somewhat jarring cuts in places.
  • Because he was navving and needed to watch the ships' movesets play out, when they are all moving Qvintus' video mostly only shows the area around his ship. Consequently, ships not near Qvintus' generally only appear fleetingly - if at all - while executing movesets.
  • I can see no foundation for an accusation as serious as Qvintus editing the video for anything but practicality or that he lied about his impressions.
  • At 0:18, DLAM fires at a tile that only the TFF war frigate could have got to. Missing could-have-beens like this is not hard.
  • 3:37, the DLAM frigate has a red bar when it could only hit UC ships. (I think this is what Whiterose is talking about here.)
  • At 5:13, the TFF frigate is hit from the left while firing right. At around 5:16, it is just possible to make out fire between TFF and DLAM and be quite certain about it - though I had to watch it around half a dozen times. If you were navving, it would have been very easy to either miss this stuff altogether or mistake it for fighting between the Legacy frigate and the TFF ship.
  • At 5:18, there is a cut eliminating the hourglass thinking-time. No movement is lost, as can be seen from the three static ships in the middle of the shot. At the beginning of the next turn, the TFF war frigate turns away and out of range of the DLAM ship.



I'm going to write a few things linked to some of Qvintus' comments for the video:
  • I do not think what Qvintus says at 0:30 is at all conclusive: it's very easy to forget about other ships when you're targeting one, everyone forgets to put in shots sometimes and, importantly, there is the volley at 0:18 mentioned above.
  • At 1:10, it's very plausible that DLAM merely chose to pursue a fight with the Legacy frigate over TFF's rather than co-operating with TFF, though the effect on the early parts of the round was similar to if he were. Luxory has said he joined the blockade for sinks, so the cluster means nothing to him. It must be said that between going left or right, Luxory couldn't very easily avoid favoring someone. That TFF took advantage of the situation by scoring points says little against them.
  • At 2:00, Qvintus can't be sure about this. He has already himself missed opportunities to hit enemy ships at no risk to a friendly one and it's very difficult to tell a missed shot from one foregone. It's possible that Luxory just missed an opportunity like before. Again, there is 0:18.
  • 3:25: later, DLAM and TFF do indeed exchange fire, but they have not been near each other much at this point. It bears repeating that 0:18 was very easy to miss; I did miss it at first as well. Visioon has explained why UC did not fire at DLAM and it reads to me like he wanted the DLAM and Legacy to occupy each other. I like this and approve wholeheartedly, however it should be noted that the way it played out was well-nigh indistinguishable from what the UC brigs should have done were they co-operating with DLAM.
  • 3:35: it's worth mentioning that this is not what Ameranth had said verbatim, but a paraphrasing. It is an interpretation broadly consistent with what the video has shown so far. Though looking back having seen the whole round, it seems to me that couldn't have been correct, based on the video the assessment appears far from unreasonable for being made at that time. Regardless, I can believe that Legacy may well have needed to get extra jobbers to win the round from here. (This is not to say anyone needs a reason to raise pay.)
  • 6:12: nobody should have been called 'slimy' on this video as far as I'm concerned.


I believe that the assessment of organized collusion between three flags was incorrect. I am basing this primarily on Qvintus' own video. It does not follow, of course, that there was anything reprehensible about raising pay in itself. Nor am I suggesting for a moment that blockading Legacy because of the payraise would be wrong in any way. On the contrary, I think more blockading is a good countermove to payraises.

Qvintus did not lie. Qvintus did not attempt to lie about a lie. You could argue for his rash judgement, arrogance or prejudice but not for him lying or engaging in deliberate distortion. I would say this as well for those who have said he was lying.


Edits: ambiguous syntax.
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"That is not how the question frames itself."

Wend, royal archophobe
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Elliptic at Aug 26, 2011 12:38:34 PM]
[Aug 26, 2011 11:30:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Pixulayted

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Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Posts: 797
Status: Offline
Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan

 
bump

I was not at this blockade.

Some observations:
  • Videos have to be edited down or they will be too big to upload. The hourglass time was necessarily edited out on the Youtube video for space and to avoid the headache-inducing flitting-about-the-board that takes place when the ships aren't moving. This led to somewhat jarring cuts in places.
  • Because he was navving and needed to watch the ships' movesets play out, when they are all moving Qvintus' video mostly only shows the area around his ship. Consequently, ships not near Qvintus' generally only appear fleetingly - if at all - while executing movesets.
  • I can see no foundation for an accusation as serious as Qvintus editing the video for anything but practicality or lying about his impressions.
  • At 0:18, DLAM fires at a tile that only the TFF war frigate could have got to. Missing could-have-beens like this is not hard.
  • 3:37, the DLAM frigate has a red bar when it could only hit UC ships. (I think this is what Whiterose is talking about here.)
  • At 5:13, the TFF frigate is hit from the left while firing right. At around 5:16, it is just possible to make out fire between TFF and DLAM and be quite certain about it - though I had to watch it around half a dozen times. If you were navving, it would have been very easy to either miss this stuff altogether or mistake it for fighting between the Legacy frigate and the TFF ship.
  • At 5:18, there is a cut eliminating the hourglass thinking-time. No movement is lost, as can be seen from the three static ships in the middle of the shot. At the beginning of the next turn, the TFF war frigate turns away and out of range of the DLAM ship.



I'm going to write a few things linked to some of Qvintus' comments for the video:
  • I do not think what Qvintus says at 0:30 is at all conclusive: it's very easy to forget about other ships when you're targeting one, everyone forgets to put in shots sometimes and, importantly, there is the volley at 0:18 mentioned above.
  • At 1:10, it's very plausible that DLAM merely chose to pursue a fight with the Legacy frigate over TFF's rather than co-operating with TFF, though the effect on the early parts of the round was similar to if he were. Luxory has said he joined the blockade for sinks, so the cluster means nothing to him. It must be said that between going left or right, Luxory couldn't very easily avoid favoring someone. That TFF took advantage of the situation by scoring points says little against them.
  • At 2:00, Qvintus can't be sure about this. He has already himself missed opportunities to hit enemy ships at no risk to a friendly one and it's very difficult to tell a missed shot from one foregone. It's possible that Luxory just missed an opportunity like before. Again, there is 0:18.
  • 3:25: later, DLAM and TFF do indeed exchange fire, but they have not been near each other much at this point. It bears repeating that 0:18 was very easy to miss; I did miss it at first as well. Visioon has explained why UC did not fire at DLAM and it reads to me like he wanted the DLAM and Legacy to occupy each other. I like this and approve wholeheartedly, however it should be noted that the way it played out was well-nigh indistinguishable from what the UC brigs should have done were they co-operating with DLAM.
  • 3:35: it's worth mentioning that this is not what Ameranth had said verbatim, but a paraphrasing. It is an interpretation broadly consistent with what the video has shown so far. Though looking back having seen the whole round, it seems to me that couldn't have been correct, based on the video the assessment appears far from unreasonable for being made at that time. Regardless, I can believe that Legacy may well have needed to get extra jobbers to win the round from here. (This is not to say anyone needs a reason to raise pay.)
  • 6:12: nobody should have been called 'slimy' on this video as far as I'm concerned.


I believe that the assessment of organized collusion between three flags was incorrect. I am basing this primarily on Qvintus' own video. It does not follow, of course, that there was anything reprehensible about raising pay in itself. Nor am I suggesting for a moment that blockading Legacy because of the payraise would be wrong in any way. On the contrary, I think more blockading is a good countermove to payraises.

Qvintus did not lie. Qvintus did not attempt to lie about a lie. You could argue for his rash judgement, arrogance or prejudice but not for him lying or engaging in deliberate distortion. I would say this as well for those who have said he was lying.



tl;dr.
That was really nicely written with the bullet points and everything. Well done.
[Aug 26, 2011 12:08:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shadymermady

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Joined: Dec 1, 2007
Posts: 716
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Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan

Wend, i don't know how legacy have managed to keep someone like you in thier flag. Your post is a well written defence for Qvintus and unlike posts from other Legacy royals i read the whole way through. You are correct in saying it can be hard to nav and record/watch the board the whole time. I don't know about you, but if i had any doubt about what happened during the cade and wasn't 100% sure that i had got the story right, i wouldn't have posted a reply like the one Qvintus did, or posted a one sided recording.


 
As usual I won't bother to read any opinions posted below my intent post, simply since i don't care what you think but I will however thank our awesome team and all the jobbers, that made this party possible. My version of what happened today was that 3 flags, that pretended to fight for their own reasons, ganged up on Legacy so we ensured to match their combined jobbing number which of course gave them a unwinnable situation. As I see it, they pulled a slimy move and got the only response it deserved.


The amount of people that thought Legacy's actions and response was total BS must surely say to you guys that something is not right. This isnt the first time Legacy have defended their shitty actions with half truths and i would bet my left nut (if i had one) it wont be the last.

You're a good pirate Wend, and i wish i could post pretty like you do.
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Betty - Obsidian

Crip tells ye, "bout to turn on my balls warmer.."
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by shadymermady at Aug 26, 2011 8:16:13 PM]
[Aug 26, 2011 8:14:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sardinez

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Joined: Oct 9, 2006
Posts: 412
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Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan

 
You're a good pirate Wend, and i wish i could post pretty like you do.


If you actually use half your brain to think before you post, im sure you can do a similar job, instead of doing silly 3p at blockades which you have no biz poking your nose into.
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Greatness said:"I said "we" because I was also part of that blockade team at the time. So yes, I kicked ass too. There's some reality for you."
[Sep 25, 2011 3:39:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hurtboss4

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Joined: Jun 30, 2009
Posts: 1346
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Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan

 
 
You're a good pirate Wend, and i wish i could post pretty like you do.


If you actually use half your brain to think before you post, im sure you can do a similar job, instead of doing silly 3p at blockades which you have no biz poking your nose into.

You're as obnoxious as you're fat.
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And, scene.
*lights out*
[Sep 25, 2011 4:51:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Demonboyred

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Joined: May 3, 2007
Posts: 1800
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Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan

 
 
You're a good pirate Wend, and i wish i could post pretty like you do.


If you actually use half your brain to think before you post, im sure you can do a similar job, instead of doing silly 3p at blockades which you have no biz poking your nose into.


You're a month late to the party.
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Bunnyspawn, Malachite's most arrogant player.

Also Bunnyspawn on Sage and Hunter;Disgraced on Viridian.

I support PvP in sinking environments.
[Sep 25, 2011 6:22:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hillsmen

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Joined: Aug 5, 2010
Posts: 2809
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Re: Legacy's intent to blockade Harmattan

 
You're a month late to the party.

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Captainrich
[Sep 25, 2011 6:34:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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