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Setsusa

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

@Narci perhaps for you, but I have a hard time believing it of the two people in charge.

@Avienda that's a long post, most of it is a history lesson on how RM is worse than you guys, which is moreso for Dahlgren. Two things. 1. Why call him young? It doesn't matter that he's like 8 years younger than you, he could very well be smarter or more mature and you should realize that possibility. Two, I see that I was right and then you are going to ignore my questions entirely. No one said anything about shutting down your "pond" in fact the only thing mentioned was that it has failed so far. So yes, jump to SHUT IT DOWN instead of making it better. You're boring. Also, whining about personal attacks? Did you live a sheltered childhood by chance?

And finally, hate to say it, but Cairna's right.
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Cremate on Emerald.
Motou on Meridian.
Avatar by Elfeesh.
[Aug 13, 2011 9:05:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

I'm not going to bother to read your post because basically, tl;dr covers like 1/3rd of it. I did however see where you quoted me and I saw you take a jump at RM, and that's where I have something to say.

The difference between Legacy and RM is that I've been naving for RM since august last year, and everytime they have treated everyone the same. They've always been straight up with the way they play the game and it hasn't changed from opponent to opponent.

With that being said, my age is irrelevant here. Let's be honest here, I'm me, and you're you. If you're getting beat at pretty much every aspect of the game by someone who's younger than you yet you use it as leverage in an arguement, who here is the one looking dumb. Go ahead, keep using the "young mr dahlgren" line, it's not like I take offense. I am young, and my age has nothing to do with my skill.

Edit: Jesus christ, i actually read it all. I'm sorry, you mentioning" bullying people out of blockading" while consistently screwing over Shadowy because he doesn't recognize your greatness blends together like oil and water. Captainben, oh here we go. The guy who dropped on an outpost he knew would be a flagsit and then acted like he had won the freaking world cup. What did you ever do for him when he moved to Sage to carry on blockading. I've had several sleepless nights to help him out, have you?

Also, word up to Cairna for telling it like it is. YOU SHUT DEM UP bro.

Edit2: I'm sorry that you recognize yourselves amongst the powerhouse flags like Vanguard and RiddleMakers. If that isn't proof enough for what I've been trying to say here then I don't know what is.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by warp11 at Aug 13, 2011 9:34:29 AM]
[Aug 13, 2011 9:19:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
NathanShawn

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

Dahlgren said what I was going to say, RM were jerks when it came to blockading but they never pretended to be otherwise. Legacy just seems to say one thing and do another.
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Nathanshawn:
Something of the crew Truth be Told.
Something else of the flag United we Stand.

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~Hai ai r Nayfin, Ai ish a Polar Bear.~
[Aug 13, 2011 9:43:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
2NDSKY

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

It seems to still be unclear as to why FF pulled out after R1 at Viridis. It's very easy really. First of, as I said many many times before, FF blockaded because we liked to blockade. Screw the islands, they only cost time and effort. (Not that we wouldn't of taken care of them, but that just wasn't our drive.)

Second, FF was funded by me and Merzbow. Now go ask the big flags how they make their money and you might be surprised. (Thx Sdafda for you 100K donation!)

Third point. We could of contested for however long the blockade would of taken, but what exactly would we of gained out of it? Viridis? Big deal. This is my personal opinion, but no outpost blockade should cost more then 2mil in jobber pay, fleet cost and stock.

Now that that's out of the way, did you just really insult one of the only flag that you we're allied with? You called on their navers plenty of times. Perhaps without their support you wouldn't be where you are now.

 
Legacy, on the other hand, stood by the losing side in the Cairna-RM war

Are you serious? Did you at any point even attempt to help out your allies? Isn't that the whole point of an alliance? Or is an alliance a method of gaining 'succes' 'islands' without ever running the risk of beeing targeted?
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Shadowiie on Emerald
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by 2NDSKY at Aug 13, 2011 9:54:21 AM]
[Aug 13, 2011 9:53:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
muppman

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre


Woodchucked
Nemesis tells ye, "Change it to woodchuck :( I don't wanna be a booty!"
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/Qvintus, First mate of Nightmare and King of Legacy
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by muppman at Aug 13, 2011 1:16:08 PM]
[Aug 13, 2011 10:08:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Demonboyred

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

 
Woodchucked


Excellent rebuttle to questions raised to you. I'm glad that this covers everything.
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Bunnyspawn, Malachite's most arrogant player.

Also Bunnyspawn on Sage and Hunter;Disgraced on Viridian.

I support PvP in sinking environments.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Nemesis at Aug 13, 2011 12:26:12 PM]
[Aug 13, 2011 10:45:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Elliptic

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

Good one.
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"That is not how the question frames itself."

Wend, royal archophobe
[Aug 13, 2011 10:54:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
benrenshaw

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

 
Captainben, oh here we go. The guy who dropped on an outpost he knew would be a flagsit and then acted like he had won the freaking world cup. What did you ever do for him when he moved to Sage to carry on blockading. I've had several sleepless nights to help him out, have you?


Sorry thought I better reply.

You did help me greatly and for that appreciation is infinate, however Legacy actually did help me through giving me XO's, I think Avi or Q navv'd for me once as well, I must also add that Narci made me a few of my intent pictures.

Not trying to side with anyone. ):
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Captainben on Meridian
Basicx on Emerald
[Aug 13, 2011 12:13:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemesis
OceanMaster
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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

After setting the woodchucks loose on the last two pages of this thread, I decided it was time to remind all of you about our forum rules . The short version:


  • If the word is filtered in the game, it should be filtered on the forums.
  • If the word is not filtered in game, but is used in a way that should be filtered, it should be filtered here.
  • If you make the angry woodchucks come back, the thread may be locked and accounts suspended.
  • Woodchucks are mean.
  • Nemesis is meaner.


All clear? Great!
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Hera says, "I wish I was awesome enough to be on #TeamEvil!"
Later...
Hera says, "And the sorry thing is, I can't remember if I said, or didn't say, that."
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Avatar by Scythera
[Aug 13, 2011 12:34:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Setsusa

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

Very well, I will remember to filter my words.

To Q's post. I think instead of showing a tiny bit of backbone, you are just further revealing yourself to be the pathetic worm that everyone is labeling you as. Grow up.
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Cremate on Emerald.
Motou on Meridian.
Avatar by Elfeesh.
[Aug 13, 2011 7:46:52 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hurtboss4

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

 
This is a long post and I know very well that those of you who read it at all, will do so only to pick sentences out of context and discuss them for three pages, telling eachother how horrible I am, who could say such a thing, and demanding explanations of me. Go ahead. I will most likely ignore you.

Nope.
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And, scene.
*lights out*
[Aug 13, 2011 9:02:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jaqg



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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

wow you are such an idiot , i mean really do you sit on your face and talk out your butt or what. you really think any flag on the ocean is afraid of yours. you are nothing more then a failed blockade naver and admiral you have proven that time and time again. if you know you cant get a flag sit or you cant out pay the other flag you dont drop. your like the biggest fake anyone has ever seen. i think you might really need to do a reality check on yourself and realize this is a game to have fun playing, blockades are supposed to be fun not won from outpaying/overpaying like you do. maybe you should think about when the last time you actaully tried cading a flag equal to the size of yours or even one that has the money that you seem to brag about yours having. oh wait why would you, then you would lose and show everyone once again how much of a fail you really are. captainben has you pegged along with the rest of the ocean you only dropped on razors edge at surtsey because you knew razorback and some of his other royals would be away on holiday and not able to defend. by the way its no wonder you dont read the responses to your posts sometimes the truth hurts
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Chumlee
Fleet Officer of Epiphany
Royal of Nonchalance
[Aug 14, 2011 11:44:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
benrenshaw

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

Sorry but, I am pretty certain that Legacy blockaded Wrath of Armageddon.

Your grammar makes me agree with everything you just said.
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Captainben on Meridian
Basicx on Emerald
[Aug 14, 2011 12:51:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
visioon

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

They also blokaded Fintan (Post Mortem) 3 or 4 times till PM was broke because they could not win against them. Let's be sure not to forget this one.

One succesful blokade against WoA does not make a flag gods of blokading.
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Just passing by, no funny or smart quotes here.
[Aug 14, 2011 1:21:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
benrenshaw

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

 
They also blokaded Fintan (Post Mortem) 3 or 4 times till PM was broke because they could not win against them. Let's be sure not to forget this one.

One succesful blokade against WoA does not make a flag gods of blokading.


I was simply replying to his statement that they try to get flagsits.
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Captainben on Meridian
Basicx on Emerald
[Aug 14, 2011 1:32:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
visioon

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

I'm sorry, that was my bad. As you could see i thought you replied on the 'they would lose against flags that had funds' part.

As for the flagsit part, Legacy occasionally made a step in the right direction, im not affraid to admit that. Only to bad they fell back the cade after unfortunatly.
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Just passing by, no funny or smart quotes here.
[Aug 14, 2011 1:39:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Elliptic

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

visioon wrote: 
They also blokaded Fintan (Post Mortem) 3 or 4 times till PM was broke because they could not win against them. Let's be sure not to forget this one.

This is not true. Post Mortem was blockaded because they drove Pillars of Confidence off with numbers and I wanted to try countering this. I asked Legacy to attack Post Mortem using my resources and methodology. More or less, they did as I intended. Let's be sure not forget this one was efficient and effective.
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"That is not how the question frames itself."

Wend, royal archophobe
[Aug 14, 2011 1:54:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

Does two wrongs make a right?

Just another really poor excuse for really poor behaviour on the board.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Aug 14, 2011 2:53:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Elliptic

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

Legacy obviously endorsed what I proposed by carrying out, I gave the actual reason for the strategy pursued to correct Visioon's post. There is no excuse being made, and it is startling that you have found such a thing in your reading: it was a very short post and I even wrote "efficient and effective". Where did you see this excuse being made?
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"That is not how the question frames itself."

Wend, royal archophobe
[Aug 14, 2011 3:56:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

In previous explanations about the attrition triathlon regarding Fintan Avienda justified the actions with a set of different choices which lead to what happened. You seem to be suggesting that the decision regarding how the cades would be carried out was taken far before these "decisions" that Avienda spoke of were enabled.

That jibes pretty well with what I gathered from naving 4 rounds of nasty attritioncade before saying stop and also what I stated on the forums afterwards. Whether you want to call it an "excuse" or not is up to you, but justifications for such a dreadful act as deliberately as using attrition were made and those were the ones I was thinking about, not your specific post where you seem to be admitting what actually went down.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Aug 14, 2011 4:38:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Elliptic

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

The methodology I argued for Legacy to adopt does endorse material attrition. There has been no excuse or moral justification offered by me for this approach because I do not believe any is necessary. Before something is abandoned, the onus is on the party who believes it is immoral to give a good reason why.

You did not provide your post with a link, but I think you mean this post of Avienda's. Avienda does not offer any moral justification, but an attacker's options. Option 5's superiority is pretty much how I sold it to everyone. I am not sure what you are suggesting I am suggesting, but the disparity of material attrition achieved would not have been possible without Post Mortem's co-operation. In the sense that their behaviour was anticipated, we had planned a response. I do not see what I am "admitting" to.

Post Mortem lost more than Legacy. What is morally wrong there? You have not stated in that thread why such material attrition should be eschewed.
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"That is not how the question frames itself."

Wend, royal archophobe
[Aug 14, 2011 7:39:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

There's a really long thread in Political Parley regarding "Attrition" from when Cairna and Beyond the Veil did 6 consecutive weeks of blockading on Armstrong. They got complained on week 7 and stopped, but otherwise it appears as if they would've been knocked for "Griefing".

Attrition is not according to the spirit of the game. From your point of view it's a sneaky tactic, from the receiver's end it's hell on earth. You singlehandedly ruined the gameplay blockade-wise for Post Mortem with these blockades. Now I'm not saying Post Mortem are the kind of kids that endorse fair cades to the max. I mean against RM we got outjobbed by 100 and that too is rough. Yet dirty tactics should not be met with more dirty tactics. Blockades should be won by skill in blockading, not by superior numbers and/or coffers. Otherwise, you're not really doing blockades, you're just buying stuff and that's not how blockades are supposed to work.

Regarding Legacy making "excuses", I believe they did at no point admit to deliberately using attrition as you describe it here. At some point, I even recall Avienda saying "We wanted to spread the fun out on several weeks", now that's not the exact quote and I'm not going to go dig it up, but what you're suggesting here does not really seem like "fun for everyone for several weeks.

The only one that can judge one's moral behaviour is oneself, so if you don't find anything wrong in attritions, paywars and massive jobbing advantadges then that's your point of view. This does however mean that you forfeit the support and friendship of everyone with moral values a bit stricter than yours. It's up to you what to believe in, but when you pull jack moves like these don't be surprised when it gets frowned upon.

 
Post Mortem lost more than Legacy. What is morally wrong there? You have not stated in that thread why such material attrition should be eschewed.

Post Mortem may have lost more in terms of materialism, but Legacy blew their image which is a damage that lasts longer than empty coffers. Your "Dendrite Pond" and general stance on fun and nice blockades got blown out the water harder than Laslo on cade-day those weekends.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Aug 15, 2011 7:43:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Randomite

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

 
 
Post Mortem lost more than Legacy. What is morally wrong there? You have not stated in that thread why such material attrition should be eschewed.

Post Mortem may have lost more in terms of materialism, but Legacy blew their image which is a damage that lasts longer than empty coffers. Your "Dendrite Pond" and general stance on fun and nice blockades got blown out the water harder than Laslo on cade-day those weekends.


Quoted for emphasis, you only have to take a glance across VP to see how that damage had progressed over time. Poe you can rebuild, reputations a lot harder to get back once it's lost.
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Disengaged.

Dexade tells ye, "i m not talking to you and dont want your cookies!"
[Aug 15, 2011 8:20:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

Historically speaking, there's a blurred line between attrition of will and attrition of materials. The powers that be have stated that attrition of materials is acceptable; but, when that turns into attrition of will, that's when you see griefing. The line is somewhere between 3 and 6 blockades, depending on the player who is being repeatedly attacked and how quickly he is willing to run to the authorities.

That said, attrition of materials is pretty essential in certain situations. Viridian has nearly always been an "us vs them" ocean based on two camps of powerhouse alliances. Viridian will only change in dynamic with an extended period of attrition against certain flags, coupled with actions that promote consistent availability of cheap (and entertaining) blockades. Really, islands have never been worth less, yet costs have never been higher, thus promoting a massive glass-ceiling. It is an incredibly pathetic illness that nearly exclusively afflicts Viridian. You would think the community has the ability to self-regulate this issue given the current economic worth and over saturation of islands; however, in part thanks to Legacy, the ocean has steamed full speed ahead towards status quo. If Viridian really wants a proper change, they need a proper flag with solid leadership capable of pulling off an entertaining (and perhaps enlightening) war of attrition, among other things.
[Aug 15, 2011 8:31:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

Dahlgreen wrote: 
... The only one that can judge one's moral behaviour is oneself ...

No. I rarely argue in absolutes, but this statement and what it implies is wrong, absolutely wrong.

I would not want to argue that Anders Behring Breivik is the only judge of his moral choices and behavior.
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
[Aug 15, 2011 8:46:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LunEnvoy

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

 
Viridian has nearly always been an "us vs them" ocean based on two camps of powerhouse alliances. Viridian will only change in dynamic with an extended period of attrition against certain flags,


Gotta ask chip, why change the dynamic? Don't you support powerhouse alliances? Because you obviously dont support the gadfly apologists that dislike them as well.

Edit: Sverdrup point, but I get what dahl is saying as well. I guess its more morals vs ethics. Morally, the guy was sound. He did what he knew to be right. Ethically he was wrong, as the people affected by him werent exactly thrilled, to say the least.
Please dont hurt me, I know youre alot more knowledgeable on matters of philosophy and psychology. XD
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LoLune

I'm still just the guard dog. I bite. They shoot.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by LunEnvoy at Aug 15, 2011 9:15:58 AM]
[Aug 15, 2011 8:52:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

 
Dahlgreen wrote: 
... The only one that can judge one's moral behaviour is oneself ...

No. I rarely argue in absolutes, but this statement and what it implies is wrong, absolutely wrong.

I would not want to argue that Anders Behring Breivik is the only judge of his moral choices and behavior.

Other people can judge him for what he's done, but only if he himself realizes the gravity and illegitimacy (weak adjectives for such a horrible event) would he find the incentive to change.

Otherwise, he'd just be like Qvintus popping his fingers in his ears going LALALALALA I DONT CARE I'M BETTER THAN YOU.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Aug 15, 2011 9:21:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

 
Dahlgreen wrote: 
... The only one that can judge one's moral behaviour is oneself ...

No. I rarely argue in absolutes, but this statement and what it implies is wrong, absolutely wrong.

I would not want to argue that Anders Behring Breivik is the only judge of his moral choices and behavior.


I think he was more pushing along the lines of cultural relativity, where a flag's politics represent distinct "cultures". At least that's what I get out of it.
[Aug 15, 2011 9:32:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LunEnvoy

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

^ hence the difference of ethics and morals
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LoLune

I'm still just the guard dog. I bite. They shoot.
[Aug 15, 2011 9:48:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Re: Legacy's intent to scare Razor's Edge into scuttling Spectre

We perhaps should be careful to distinguish between

1. Values (n): beliefs of a person or social group in which they have an emotional investment (either for or against something);"

2. Morals (n): motivation based on ideas of right and wrong;

3. Ethics (n): The rules or standards governing the conduct of a person or the members of a profession.

As a community of fighting pirates we always judge the believes (values), ideas of right and wrong (morals), and codified professional conduct (ethics) of other pirates.

And this is a good thing. We all do both as pirates and people in the jury box deciding the fates of others. And we all should be encouraged to do so. [Source]
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
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