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Hazarath

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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regulamentation of derivatives which will be done in a few months, won't loose for long.

o.O

Who let Bush onto the forums?
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Morbuzaan

I support PvP in sinking environments.

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Cremate tells ye, "Anyway I have hockey to watch"

[Jul 18, 2011 5:21:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Talisker

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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Search for my name on Google, and you get 100+ hits for a professional female poker player. That is not me. :)


I'm an amateur astronomer of some renown!
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Leif
The Forums
Gunnermooch wrote: 
I can't respond because I do not understand what the hell you are talking about. Sorry.

Av by Ecastasy
[Jul 18, 2011 5:38:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hallaluah320

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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regulamentation of derivatives which will be done in a few months, won't loose for long.

o.O

Who let Bush onto the forums?

Probably Barack.
Democrats/Republicans=They are the same.
Anyways reading this thread gave me the lawlz so I thank the OP for that.
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Greenday
[Jul 18, 2011 8:35:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hallaluah320

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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So let's say, I've been here 5-6 years, haven't broke a single rule in that time, and now I have the same faith as a Hacker,Modder or Botter? Give me a break.


Sounds pretty similar to George Bush
He's been there for 8 years, created wars, gave tax cuts to pretty much everyone, created departments of teletubbies, He just fucked up a couple times ok? Give him a break.

Heres Barack's story
He's been there for 3 years, bailed out some of his buddies, raised the spending of everything, goes to vacations several times during the year out of country's expense, he lets the FED keep printing money so that we can have an inflation in a couple years, oh and the debt ceiling is about to go up. Give him a break.

I don't hate the government. Give me a break.
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Greenday
[Jul 18, 2011 8:49:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hazarath

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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Hallaluah wrote: 
Novice Troll

Keep trying, you'll get there.
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Morbuzaan

I support PvP in sinking environments.

Cremate wrote: 
Cremate tells ye, "Anyway I have hockey to watch"

[Jul 18, 2011 8:58:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hallaluah320

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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Hallaluah wrote: 
Novice Troll

Keep trying, you'll get there.

Thank ye, Thank ye
I have several rare candies in my pocket.
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Greenday
[Jul 18, 2011 9:00:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
elbeejay

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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Hallaluah wrote: 
Novice Troll

Keep trying, you'll get there.

Thank ye, Thank ye
I have several rare candies in my pocket.


As useful as they are, only real training will allow you to reach your fullest potential.
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-Elbee on Hunter, Sage, Viridian, and Malachite
[Jul 18, 2011 9:22:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Strider399

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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What's up with the whole, "I've been playing for 5 years thus the ban is unfair" logic? All players agree to the same ToS and a player who has been playing longer shouldn't go scotch-free after breaking the rules just because they've played for x number of years. I'm just not quite sure why there was a repetition of the whole, "but I've played 5 years!".


Also, great job OMs, I guess move spying is actually a problem in blockades, it is just something I personally did not know actually occurred frequently.


It occurs quite frequently actually. It's kind of gratifying when you put moves in, change them at the very last second, see your enemy move perfectly to bone your first set of moves, and then you end up boning them instead by doing the move to bone the move that would have boned you.
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Sid on Obsidian

Striderrs everywhere else
[Jul 19, 2011 2:14:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jezzebel

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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Not that I'm on the OP's side in this or anything, but is this what I'm seeing?

OP's main pirate is in flag A
Flag A is being blockaded by (or blockading) flag B
Flag B jobs Main Pirate onto their ship.

I don't know if I can honestly say I'd call it "spying" when you're on a pirate that clearly belongs to the other team.
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Redjenny, Now merged with Health Nutz
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[Jul 19, 2011 7:20:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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Being on the ship of an opposing team and not relaying information about the ship you're on isn't spying. Being on the ship and relaying information, is. There is no pragmatic way to check the bona fides of everyone who is being jobbed in the midst of a blockade, and people play with their friends on the opposing side or just get jobbed to chat with them without cheating quite frequently.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
[Jul 19, 2011 10:08:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kenjennings

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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What you could do though - and I'm sure you're already doing this - is try to link Higure here to a naver on the other side. It's possible that Higure acted on his own and the naver didn't listen to him, I mean sometimes you have guys sending you tells you shouldn't receive and some people mute them and complain them, other people engage in a discussion. Where I'm getting at here is that it always takes two to movespy, and if you don't get rid of the other end of the coin here he's going to do it again, and take advantadge of another friend that'll get thrown under the bus.
I can't think of anyone else that would have complained this guy other than whoever he was trying to move-spy for. Unless he booched it into another chat, which would be even more lulz and not too surprising considering the OP. And anyone who has been playing for 5 years should know better than to do this kind of crap.
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[removed by SOPA]
[Jul 19, 2011 10:29:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bronzebeard

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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It wouldn't be an issue if only officers could see the moves.
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Peglegpaul
Now on Obsidian!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by bronzebeard at Jul 19, 2011 12:08:22 PM]
[Jul 19, 2011 12:07:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
false_dmitri

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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bronzebeard wrote: 
It wouldn't be an issue if only officers could see the moves.

Although, ironically, the original post's scenario would have been possible if only the moves were hidden. His original claim was that he passed along the ship's condition, "etc."

If he was caught through a chat booch, there probably would have been evidence of whom he was communicating with and whether they were responding in kind. We don't know that he was the only one punished for this incident.
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On hiatus. :(
[Jul 19, 2011 1:04:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jezzebel

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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Being on the ship of an opposing team and not relaying information about the ship you're on isn't spying. Being on the ship and relaying information, is. There is no pragmatic way to check the bona fides of everyone who is being jobbed in the midst of a blockade, and people play with their friends on the opposing side or just get jobbed to chat with them without cheating quite frequently.


Right, I'm not saying it's okay. Just that "spying" would imply some form of stealth was being used.
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Redjenny, Now merged with Health Nutz
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A hug is like a strangle you haven't finished yet!

[Jul 19, 2011 2:10:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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It is excellent to see someone done for move spying. It would be better if the people that make use of spies to place their moves got banned, but this is a start (and yes I realise that's extremely hard to prove since they do it by multiclienting or, more likely, a stooge and Ventrilo).
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Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra
Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite)
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[Jul 19, 2011 2:13:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
false_dmitri

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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Jezzebel wrote: 
Right, I'm not saying it's okay. Just that "spying" would imply some form of stealth was being used.

Unless someone is careless with their chats, it's pretty hard to tell they're sending signals to the other ship. They don't have to sneak off to signal someone through a window or plant an inconspicuous banner on deck. All you can use to identify them as a mole is guilt by association, which in gameplay context makes tons of sense and in social context gets very poisonous, very quickly.

The only substantial objection to hiding moves from jobbers is that longtime puzzlers will get bored without the option to backseat bnav, as it were. And there are ways around that, such as showing the tokens when time expires and letting the CO make exceptions (like ordering someone to gun or nav for viewing privileges). In an internet game that depends so heavily on blindly outguessing other players, letting random spectators see everything on the ship makes as much sense as revealing poker hands to everyone watching the table.

Hm, off to Game Design. :)
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On hiatus. :(
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by false_dmitri at Jul 19, 2011 2:40:34 PM]
[Jul 19, 2011 2:36:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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The person in question was called Higure. He was in a flag that, if I believe this right was not participating actively in the blockade in any other way than jobbing support.

Also, it appeared to me as if the OP had been asked to do this by a friend, not like he randomly sent a tell out.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Jul 19, 2011 2:38:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bronzebeard

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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It wouldn't be an issue if only officers could see the moves.

Although, ironically, the original post's scenario would have been possible if only the moves were hidden. His original claim was that he passed along the ship's condition, "etc."

Aye, true, but I gathered from the OM's input above that the ban was for move spying.

Anywho, my point was that I reckon moves should be hidden to those that aren't in a position of trust in a crew/flag. Same goes with being able to see rum and balls. I say it's a better policy to discourage cheating by making it worthless to do so than to waste time trying to catch people, when inevitably a lot of cheaters are still going to get away with it.

As for damage and bilge levels, I personally think those should be readily available for the other side to see. I think it would make battles a lot more interesting, especially multi-ship scenarios.
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Peglegpaul
Now on Obsidian!
[Jul 19, 2011 3:42:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kenjennings

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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As for damage and bilge levels, I personally think those should be readily available for the other side to see. I think it would make battles a lot more interesting, especially multi-ship scenarios.
Never having done any of this type of nav myself, doesn't a good naver already infer these details?
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[removed by SOPA]
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by kenjennings at Jul 19, 2011 4:14:27 PM]
[Jul 19, 2011 4:13:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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As for damage and bilge levels, I personally think those should be readily available for the other side to see. I think it would make battles a lot more interesting, especially multi-ship scenarios.
Never having done any of this type of nav myself, doesn't a good naver already infer these details?


Infer, yes. Correctly, usually no. One incred per station makes a phenomenal difference to ship output. Likewise with jobbers willing to station hop (or carp). Likewise with multiple dcs and so on and so forth.

I'm puzzled as to why Peglegpaul thinks seeing the damage and bilge would make the battles more interesting rather than less. It would remove the opportunity for a lot of the headgames that form the most interesting part of bnav. Remove that uncertainty, and those ships just die fast.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
[Jul 19, 2011 4:38:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kenjennings

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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Infer, yes. Correctly, usually no.
Yeah, I hear a lot of hurrrIpumped10largeintohimwtfffffffffff
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[removed by SOPA]
[Jul 19, 2011 4:44:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bronzebeard

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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I'm puzzled as to why Peglegpaul thinks seeing the damage and bilge would make the battles more interesting rather than less. It would remove the opportunity for a lot of the headgames that form the most interesting part of bnav. Remove that uncertainty, and those ships just die fast.

I think in one on one fights it would encourage more aggression. Lots of fights are needlessly prolonged by people worried that their opponent's ship is in a far better state than their own. I think it makes fights less fun for a lot of people in those cases.

I also don't think the good navvers ever fall for all the kidology anyway. Those people playing dead or those trying to look alive by filling each move with a shot are pretty obvious.

Aside from whether I think it's interesting or not, it's this uncertainty that encourages people to cheat. Plus I think it would be a bit more realistic (and I don't think this is somewhere where more realism is less fun).

I suppose the best thing would be a crows nest puzzle where good performance gave you more information on the other ships but that's very wishful thinking!

*shrugs*
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Peglegpaul
Now on Obsidian!
[Jul 19, 2011 11:34:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
marundel

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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I suppose the best thing would be a crows nest puzzle where good performance gave you more information on the other ships but that's very wishful thinking!

*shrugs*

Hmmmm... I remember playing a wargame during one of my training classes in the military where you could allocate resources to Intelligence (gaining information on the opponent) as well as counter-intelligence (preventing the opponent from gaining information on you). The results of both teams' expenditures were resolved by an algorithm within the game structure. I wonder if that is something that could be adapted to a shipboard puzzle during battle... maybe I should follow Dmitri to Game Design.
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Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean
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SO, Boochin' Drunks

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warp11

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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This is the solution to all your problems
This is a suggestion in Game Design about a move that disables players from seeing all the information about the ship. This is to be honest completely flawless, you could choose to show and not to show and you keep people from seeing your moves.

If this were to be implemented, a gigantic issue as movespying would be wiped away instantly. I can see no legitimate reason as to why it haven't been done yet.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Jul 20, 2011 6:07:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Notreallz

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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OOO doesn't like the idea it seems.
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Sage Alexgunner/Fillcarps

Hunter Bothers/No cade alt.

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[Jul 20, 2011 9:17:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
false_dmitri

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Re: OM's are doing the worst job in years Reply to this Post
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I wouldn't object to seeing other ships' hit points, the same as Game Gardens bnav shows carp but not bilge. That's enough info to know whether to attempt to finish off an opponent, but not enough to tell you whether they'll outmaneuver you with surprisingly low bilge and high sail output. Sort of makes sense in real world terms too, since you can see if the side of the ship is all shot up more easily than you can see what's happening below decks.

Lack of info is fine, though. Look at Sea Monster boards, where even the move bar disappears.
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On hiatus. :(
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by false_dmitri at Jul 20, 2011 4:27:52 PM]
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